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Tackling the bigger issues - Gay education to kids

^^^Well yeah, some of the legal-type stuff I don't know enough about to disagree vehemently with....but generally it is a straight man's world....

(disclaimer: not that I'm looking for token sympathy....there are plenty of minorities in the world, I'm just 'lucky' enough to be one of them...doesn't mean I have to accept being second-class though..) :)
 
Raz said:
(disclaimer: not that I'm looking for token sympathy....there are plenty of minorities in the world, I'm just 'lucky' enough to be one of them...doesn't mean I have to accept being second-class though..) :)
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^ Amen to that.

:)
 
preacha said:
tolerance is so fucking gay
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Well - explicitly, you are right

Tolerance implies that you are tolerating a party that you are annoyed with in some way. Minority groups dont want to be "tolerated", they want to be accepted. Tolerance sounds so forced.
 
"Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?" - Ernest Gaines

^^ something to think about. I think that statement says alot actually.
 
Big ups to playschool!! =D

Someones letter to the newcastle herald a little while ago.....

I would love to thank Playschool for representing our diverse community. Different ethnic, religious and racial backgrounds have been represented on this show for kids. I am pleased to see that same sex couples have now been shown as well. I am sickened at the outrage that has arisen over this. To suggest that it is the right of parents, not the ABC, to decide whether or not their child is educated about same sex couples is like saying that the parents should be the only ones allowed to educate their children on the fact that some kids grow up in a single parent family. It is about family structure, not sexual acts.
Should children who just live with their mum and dad, not be able to read stories about children who live in extended families? Should children from different cultural backgrounds not be shown?
Do parents feel the need to explain about sex every time a heterosexual couple is viewed? Sex does not come into it at all. The sex of the parents should have nothing to do with their ability to raise a child. Lack of education about it equals homophobia in most cases.
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i think gays need educating that like other people (gays included) they dont need to be told how to live.

the day it becomes law for gays to have children, there will be blood flowing in the street.

dont be fucking mistaken.

gay rights. go get fucked.
 
doofqueen said:
"Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands?" - Ernest Gaines

^^ something to think about. I think that statement says alot actually.
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id rather see them holding them holding a pie.

so what exactly does that say ? enlighten me. oh so educated gay one.
 
I'm oh so glad that the government, John Howard inclusive, are reconsidering their stance on gay rights ( http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...1160851142104.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1 ). Frankly all I ask is for equality, which, in the current environment, we do not receive. No special rights or recognition - just the very same opportunity that is provided to any heterosexual couple.

The sooner we teach anyone with our communities, including the young, the diversity of life, the better.
 
^^ I really don't think it's much to ask. especially in todays society but unfortunately people are scared of what they don't know and understand *sigh*

and now this.... not allowed to adopt! grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-2231.html

Australian government to ban gay adoption

15-August-2006
Tony Grew

Documents leaked to a Tasmanian gay activist indicate that the Australian government plan to ban gay people from adopting children from overseas.

Even though adoption policy is a matter for state governments, John Howard’s federal administration attempted to attach a prohibition on overseas adoption to the 2004 law outlawing gay marriage.

The Labour opposition voted with the government on that occasion, with only small parties defending the rights of gay and lesbian couples.

The adoption of Australian children by gay and lesbian couples is premitted in Western Australia and the Capital Territory. The most populous state, New South Wales, is currently reviewing its policy.

With federal elections a year away, the incumbent Liberals appear to be ready to try again to impose restrictions on the rights of gay and lesbian couples. In 2004, the federal Attorney General explained why he thought a ban on overseas adoption was necessary:

“The government does not wish to leave itself exposed to a situation where a state or territory, for the purposes of making a political point domestically, would seek to prioritise same-sex couples ahead of heterosexual couples for the purposes of overseas adoption.

“We don’t believe that would be in Australia’s best interests or the best interests of the child.”

Rodney Croome, the gay activist who obtained the documents from a member of the parliamentary staff, accused the federal government of throwing yet another bone to the religious right.
 
THR! said:
Frankly all I ask is for equality, which, in the current environment, we do not receive. No special rights or recognition - just the very same opportunity that is provided to any heterosexual couple.
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now i'm not attempting to be funny here because that always backfires, but one of the rights that evolution have given humanity as a species is a means to bear children through inter gender intercourse. in no way am i saying that gay people are not capable of being good parents, but i'm all for the continuation of the status quo, only because having both masculine and feminine influences in a child's life usually leads to a person not having a fucking skewed perception of life.

note: this has not been a conclusive study done on my behalf, just most of the people i know who have had a single gender influence at home whilst growing up have usually had issues integrating themselves socially. although, i had parents of both genders (even though my mum is more buff than me), and i'm still totally awkward.

note #2:
i'm all for gay sex-on-premises clubs (since heterosexuals have so many)
i'm all for gay parades (because heterosexuals have so many)
hell, i'm all for all the cool stuff heterosexuals don't get, because equality is awesome!!!!111
 
I agree that ideally kids should have masculine and feminine influences - that's why I hate same-sex schools, because it trains kids to live in a false environment that won't ever be replicated socially.

I don't think that necessarily means those influences have to be their parents though. Nearly every adult male in my life was a drunk wife-bashing asshole when I was growing up (and that's not much of an exaggeration, the women in my family are notoriously awesome at picking crap partners), I can't think of a single male in my family that I count as a positive role model ever at any stage of my life...so I looked outside my family for positive male role models and I found them. And yes, I did have issues because of that, but I got over it.

That's the thing. Children are never going to be raised in a perfect world. In a perfect world there would be no bullies, no pedophiles, no abusive parents, no poverty, no disease, none of the bad stuff that exists in our world as it is right now and which children grow up with right now.

In the greater scheme of things, there are a lot worse things a kid could have to endure than to be raised by two loving women or two loving men and have his aunt or uncle or family friend be the supportive and nurturing influence he needs of the other gender...

And about note#2....if you really think parades and having somewhere to fuck in the dark is equal to the right of raising a family, I don't even know where to begin adressing that...
 
you can't pick and mix our differences raz, it's all about equality
don't ruin the argument with your closemindedness
 
^^^I don't really understand what you're saying here, dude.

Parades exist because it IS a big deal for a lot of people to come to terms with being gay and we don't get any other chance in the wider community to be able to support that. It's also a chance to say to the wider community that we're not going to hide who we are in the shadows because bigots would prefer it that way. I disagree personally with what the Mardi Gras parade is now because I think it's more about being a sideshow to entertain the tourists than any kind of message about equality...but then again I grew up in the inner city where I had a lot more exposure to the gay community so I may be a bit jaded about the whole thing. I daresay it probably means a lot more to the 17yr olds who grew up in less tolerant areas and are being exposed to the idea that they are worth celebrating as a person for the first time. I stand by the idea of it; I just think it could be executed a lot better.

And sex-on-premises venues came about because it's not uncommon even in this day and age for guys to be bashed because some cockhead thinks they're gay. There are men who don't have the courage or the support to come out, and for a lot of guys it's the only place they get to meet men.

Nobody here is saying gay men and women should be treated differently than heterosexuals...we just want the same rights. If y'all want to open a sex-on-premises venue for straight people, go for it.

I don't know if I've really addressed your point, but then I don't really know what the point was...I don't know how I've said anything remotely closeminded.. :\
 
I vaguely understand your point Preacha. I've had good influence from my parents - still married after 28 years - from both a masculine and feminine aspect. I share both of their traits. And while I agree that it is important to be exposed to both, I really do question whether having solely gay parents, with exposure to either masculinity or feminiity, outside of that relationship will have any impact on any child.

At the end of the day, it's the love and support that is given to the child, regardless of the source, that provides the structure for development. I just don't believe that a gay/lesbian family cannot provide the same necessities as a heterosexual environment.

At least, in most cases, you couldn't do any worse. Plus, it's quite likely, you'll be more affluent and in a better position to at least provide a stable financial situation, whether that includes private schooling or whatever other advantages (from my experiences). Perhaps that's a generalisation, perhaps not, but that's my thinking.

Anyhow, as I said earlier, it's about equality. I don't want anything more or anything less. Frankly, I don't particularly care what anyone does - just don't impede my own rights.
 
i agree with what raz says.
i think that as long as a child has strong male and female influences from whatever source - family friends, uncles, aunts etc, it doesnt matter. your male and female influences dont have to be your parents necessarily.
i think gay people should be allowed to adopt and have kids. what is the alternative? orphans leading a life with no parents and no special care?im not saying that this particular chils life would probably be significantly harder than most children, but if they have two loving parents (even if they are of the same sex) what should it matter? im sure many children with a mother and a father would have to deal with hardships too.

i think people who want to give their love to children and adopt should be allowed too. i hope that one day this country will see that.
 
On the topic of needing both genders in a child's life - there are sole parents in the world that do a fabulous job too (of course i'm going to say that though) and also many children being raised by both genders and they do a shit job at it - abuse etc as Raz mentioned. Also not all males and females are going to be femminine and masculine so what about those people?
 
this argument is as old as... and im sick of it. what your in fact saying is, that all familys outside that of the "one gender family" (nominliy the atypical family) are infallible. you make it sound as if they are almost prone to violence. so when gays go on about "rights" when it comes to marriage, i cant understand when they slag it off, why they would want to be involved in it...:\ having an each way bet ?

but you have hit the nail on your own head, "parents of one gender do a shit job too..."

thats right, its not about the parents, its about the children. i dont agree with women who "choose" to rear a child by whatever means and raise it alone. selfish.

by the gay community`s own admmision, the world isnt ready for homosexuality yet. why they would want to bestow that bigotry on a child is beyond me.:\

but its a "me, me, me !" world today, isnt it ?
 
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