tackling the big issues....Ethical consumption - do you give a damn?

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

^ Honey, I didn't push anything onto you. A friend of yours actually PM'ed me and requested me to send them to you. Because I (for some stupid reason) care about strangers, I did it. I just didn't tell you why.

And yes, I'd suggest you do tone it down... I don't mean that to be patronising, you know I don't, but I know you can contribute better than this. If you really do feel all these people are below you then there's better ways of handling it. Let's discuss via PM if you like.

 

[Carbine]

SLM: Well maybe my 'friends' should mind their own business. For the record I know who the 'friend' was and she has major issues of her own to contend with so maybe she should concentrate on those...

I'm racking up a bloody big PM as we speak...

 

[MoeBro]

Them having issues doesnt negate the fact that you do also

 

[Pleonastic]

You seem to have missed my post again? Is it because my question doesn't invite an easy answer?

Your line of argument interests me. I'm going to put aside the (very real) possibility that your simply trying to fire people up and pick fights. If that is your goal then you've done it well, so full credit there.

If however you wholeheartedly believe what you're saying, then I guess do have some specific questions. But first I want to make sure I fully get where you're coming from. From your posts I'm assuming the following - please correct me if I'm wrong:

• You're not broke, and you come from a good family (financially)
• You care little for the problems of others (in a general sense), and are more concerned with your own well being and comfort.
• You consider yourself (and most likely are) quite intelligent

If those things are true, then your opinions in this thread fit what I'd expect, and are perfectly valid. However what intrigues me is that from what I've seen you seem to have no concept of how to put a point of view across without sounding patronising. And given the content of your argument you also seem to be regurgitating what other people have told you, or what you've picked up elsewhere from other people's opinions. Your points are either poorly expressed, or are simply not well thought through (or both).

If you truly are astounded as to why you've generated the response you have, then perhaps you're not as smart as you think you are. I suspect though that you knew full well what kind of response you'd get. You don't walk into a muslim convention preaching the virtues of christianity for example, and not expect some kind of backlash. Much the same as you can't preach fairly extreme right wing views on bluelight without expecting the same. That doesn't negate your right to express them, but anyone with those views who wants them to be properly heard (and has half a brain) should know that it needs to be done carefully, logically, and with tact.

I don't really know what sort of response I'm hoping for, but the fact that you seem to only respond to the people who directly attack you is interesting. It makes me think that you're not entirely convinced in your line of argument, but since you've already started down this track it's too late to turn back. I guess at the very least it would be nice if you acknowledged there was some grey area in this issue, and that you're not the one on the moral high ground just because you think you're better than most of the other bluelighters.

 

[Carbine]

Pleon oh FFS I simply do NOT have the time to sit around replying to everyone who responds to me. Sorry if I made you feel inferior - look I'll make it up to you by devoting a WHOLE entire post to you...

Why do I keep responding? B/C i don't like believe in keeping a low profile. If someone has an issue with something I've said, then I'll damn well fight to the death to defend my point. I'm entitled to my own opinions - even if they are politically INcorrect. The moral majority to NOT frighten me, whether on a forum, in real life, via SMS or whatever...

In regards to coming from a stable financial background - thats bollocks. I could tell you a story that would knock your beliefs flying in a matter of seconds, however, I do not feel like posting my private life on a board where I will not be taken seriously. I will tell you this though - if my father had listened to what people told him and the shit he had to put up with when he first came to Australia, then we would not be in the financially 'lofty' position we are now...it's only because of his spirit and sharp tongue that he still has a backbone and is still going despite what he was put through.

Yes, I love my creature comforts. Why the hell should I give up my laptop, car, horses, nice house, heating in winter and cooling in summer etc etc to go live in some stupid hippie commune just to prove that I'm a good little citizen??? Bugger that! Someone, get me my caviar and champagne before I pass out...

Dunno about the intellegence theory...check out one of LostPunk's previous posts...apparently, I'm mentally retarded.

*carbine wonders why the BL Moral Majority didn't pick LostPunk up on this little politically incorrect Slip Up* Hmm...I guess when you suck up enough, you get special priveleges on the BL boards...I don't think I'm intellectually superior to ANYONE. Where have I stated that?? If I have then I AM sorry. I'm of average intellegence, just like everyone else. However, I do have a fire in my belly and an extremely BAD temper (hell, I'm half Indian half Irish - do you blame me??)

Yes, I admit I OFTEN take things too far, but I have explained why. I respond directly to those who attack me because of that reason alone - I have a right NOT to be attacked. I realise I put myself in the firing line for the comments I make, and I'm more than happy to defend myself. HOWEVER, I merely responded to a question that someone posted on the board, and I was shot down because of it.

As I previously said, if you want to take up a specific issue with me - fine. But i'm not going to waste time justifying my existence to you or anyone else.

 

[Pleonastic]

See, making assumptions about people doesn't always work out. I got a few things wrong about you, and for that I apologise. I have no idea about your financial background, but merely drew that assumption from what you'd said. I'm sure you understand how that isn't a very wise thing to do on a message board.

I think I got a few things right though, but to save going over it again here's the important bit.

Originally posted by Pleonastic
If you truly are astounded as to why you've generated the response you have, then perhaps you're not as smart as you think you are. I suspect though that you knew full well what kind of response you'd get. You don't walk into a muslim convention preaching the virtues of christianity for example, and not expect some kind of backlash. Much the same as you can't preach fairly extreme right wing views on bluelight without expecting the same. That doesn't negate your right to express them, but anyone with those views who wants them to be properly heard (and has half a brain) should know that it needs to be done carefully, logically, and with tact.

And just to make absolutely sure...

Originally posted by Pleonastic
carefully, logically, and with tact.

If you're wondering where it is that we got the assumption you think you're better than us, a good example is when you said "but I will not be stepped all over by this lot". Out of curiosity, which exact "lot" are we? Your high and mighty attitude has been expressed without care, logic, or tact, and this is why most people chose to direct their attention to you rather than anyone else.

You can see the reasons for that can't you?

No matter. Thankyou for taking the time to respond. Obviously we're simply from different sides of the fence on general political opinion. And I'm sure these differences have simply been amplified by the back and forth nature of the message board. You don't have to justify your existance to me or anyone, and nor would I want you to. I doubt anyone here is really "correct" in their opinion, but if everyone has a clear conscience then that's what counts isn't it!

 

[Taliana]

All i have to say on this matter, is i think its hilarious you said something about me being on the dole. I have no fucking idea what you actually said to write me off, nor do i really care, but it just proves the fact to me, that you really have no fucking idea about anything. Just because i have dreads does not automatically mean im a dole bludger- im actually very far from it. Like seriously.

So like i said before, dont fucking judge what you Do not know.

HAHA

 

[keystroke]

^ don't take it personally Taliana, she came on the other night claiming to of been bashed up by her father and she said she couldn't move, people offered assistance and she then flamed the shit out of them.

It's not worth getting upset, you know nothing said was true and you're a lovely girl :D

now anyway, as if you could buy anything from The Body Shop again after reading the shit I posted earlier, their main slogan is "we dont test on animals" and all that crap and they TEST almost all their products on animals.


fuckers!

 

[babu]

This thread,

rocks!

 

[Chik.]

Carbine is one of the reasons why I wish murder was legal if the person you're killing was an asshole.

For making that comment, you are just as fucked up as you claim carbine to be.

You are disgusting.

 

[nickthecheese]

Now now, we all live here together, can't we all just get along?

Woohoo! I created a controversy!

Ok, on to my points:

Originally posted by Pseudo G

I question whether these companies are 'unethical' at all. They set up factories or sweat shops in areas with very little infrastructure. So that itself is not a walk in the park and provide the citizens with a means to earn a wage. Often a wage far better than anything they could earn elsewhere in that locality. This allows the people to feed, clothe and shoe (there's a joke there) their families.

Fair call. But. Do you not think it unethical, for YOU as the CONSUMER that the company makes such a profit from you? *hippies aside* I don't like getting ripped off, period. Personally, when the company is paying so little to have the shoes made, and selling me them at SUCH an inflated price, I think i'm getting ripped off. That is unethical business practice, in my humble opinion. Not to mention the workers conditions, but katmeow and my nike picture covered that pretty well, as did schizo's post.

Originally posted by Pseudo G
Would many of these conditions be any different for most of these people's other alternatives? Begging? Crime? Prostitution?

If you were born into poverty, abject poverty, what would you do? Capitalism has winners and losers, and being 1st world we are winners. You can thank whatever deity you like or just your parents that your consciousness wasn't formed into an aids-suffering child in africa, or from someone in the ghetto. I feel horrified that some, who is privileged to have clean food and water, is ripping off people who have less than that for monetary gain. Is money the new god?
You lack empathy for your fellow man [not making a value judgement, just an observation].

Originally posted by Carbine
My take on the issue is that pictures of a couple of black people in sweatshops aint enough to tugg at my heart-strings. People's livelyhood isn't worth enough to me as are the savings I make and the way a jumper/skirt/pair of shoes looks on me. I just dont have feelings for those people - yes, I live fairly comfortably, but I also have shite to deal with and some eejit who has to work 18 hrs a day in unsafe conditions aint my problem...

(i'm not being a troll here, but i am saying it like it is)

Now on to more pleasant topics - I just had a gorgeous IVORY bangle smuggled in for me from India. Sorry, Dumbo, but it looks absolutely stunning against my tan...

I can see your standpoint, and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. I ask you to validate it by answering me one simple question: How do you deserve what you have right now?

[any more than say, a 14 year old vietnamese prostitute?]

Originally posted by Carbine
zag0r - well I'm NOT! But I AM a marketer and the bottom line to me is KING.

You are also a marketer. I'm sorry, but I think your profession adds nothing of tangible productive value to the world. Just my personal opinion.

Originally posted by lostpunk5545
Carbine...

"Part IV (The Index Fossil)"

We're widespread and well fed,
The earth's rotating fate is in our head, oh yeah.
We're dominant and prominent,
And our deity's omnipotent, oh yeah.
And immortality's in our mastermind,
And we destroy everything we can find.
And tomorrow when the human clock stops and the world stops turning,
We'll be an index fossil buried in our own debris.

- Bad Religion

An index fossil is a fossil of a species that was only around for a relatively short amount of time, ie. less than 3 million years, and is useful in identifying the age of rocks.

I hope whatever, if any, intelligent species that evolves after we have starved ourselves to death by leaching the world of resources, can learn from the mistakes that will be imprinted everywhere in our ruins.

Because unfortunately Carbine, your viewpoint seems to be the prominent one on this planet. So rape away, because it is not going to be you who chokes to dealth on the filth our society is churning out, it will be your great, great grandchildren. And who gives a fuck about them anyways?

Excellent post. This is spot on.

Originally posted by Carbine

And it's a free country, sweetness, I can come to whatever forum I like...

The jurisdiction of NATION STATES do not exist on the internet. Please understand this.

Originally posted by Carbine
HOWEVER that also gives me the right to abuse the planet as I see fit, as I have NOTHING to worry about in the future. I'm probably going to live for what? Another 60-odd years? There's nothing that I could do in my lifetime that will impact on me in the next half-century or so. Thank god we live in a nation addicted to 'quick fixes' and ad-hoc solutions 'coz it's suiting me perfectly well right now...

Unfortunately, this is another tool used by a Hegemony to keep you in a state of mindless consumption. Then you won't question it, like you so obviously don't. And by the way, who said this earth was yours, to use and throw away at your leisure?. Where do you derive this divinely mandated power from, oh great one?

All this post. IMHO. But. Remember friends, together, we can make a difference.


nick

 

[lostpunk5545]

^ Nice

now anyway, as if you could buy anything from The Body Shop again after reading the shit I posted earlier, their main slogan is "we dont test on animals" and all that crap and they TEST almost all their products on animals.

fuckers!

"I send a message to the people investing their time and their effort into animal testing all for what?
Soap and cosmetics, surgical vets, get your pet paramedics on the case
So we can say we fought ya, just to save the torture of another kitten coming from the pound
I can see you shitting 'cause you're getting shut down
I curse the anti-perspirant, don't fucking buy this
I've seen them spray it into a kittens' iris and I'd prefer to see it around the other way and watch you getting blinded by the aerosol spray
I'll put the mace to your face and I'll force you to breathe in
If your were on fire I wouldn't even piss on ya"

- Butterfingers, Piss on ya.

Animal testing is a really contentious issue in my mind. I can't stand the thought of animal suffering when the end result is fucking beauty products. However I do think animal testing can have useful and necessary applications in scientific research. I'm still against it though and I think time and money should be invested into researching viable alternatives to animal testing.

The major problem is that biology is so complicated it is not something that can be replicated easily on a computer. There are just so many things about our brains etc. that we just don't know and possibly never will. This makes it near impossible to simulate accurately.

However it has been shown that a lot of animal testing is useless anyways as some drugs have completely different reactions on us even when trialled on higher primates. And considering the majority of animal testing is done on rats who are extremely different to us biologically it seems nearly as pointless as trying to emulate a test electronically.

---------------------------
Oh and Carbine I'm sorry if you were insulted by the personal jibes. Seeing as you were doleing them out left, right, and centre I thought that this was an acceptable form of communication with you.

 

[BigTrancer]

D N F T T

 

[ButrosButros_Grantos]

I don't care at all, basically even though it's child labor at least they have jobs, Nike is doing them a favor...

 

[onetwothreefour]

^^^ oh come on, if you're going to be stupid you could at least give the impression that you don't mean it

 

[ButrosButros_Grantos]

I do mean it...

Okay what's better :

Working at slave wages for Nike, or

Prostituting themselves on the streets?

 

[lostpunk5545]

^ Working at Nike for decent wages/hours...

 

[ButrosButros_Grantos]

That's a 3rd option that is not available...

I mean it when I say I do not care, people think a lot of the time with my political views and the like that I am just trying to flame, but it's not the case. As far as I'm concerned a pyramid society is need to keep control, also it evens things out sure there are the most people of the lowest rung, but if you add up all the people above them it's a higher amount.

 

[onetwothreefour]

it's b.s.

the fact that something is the 'best' option doesn't mean that it is necessarily the 'right' option. i understand that the kids would be buggered without that meagre wage, but are you suggesting that said meagre wage leads them to have a wonderful, comfortable life?

no, they're fucked anyway. taking advantage of poor people is not cool, it's not helpful, and it's not justifiable.

 

[preacha]

^^ that above argument was summed up by ali g the best.

he once had a panel of vegetarians on his show to discuss the slaughter of animals. ali g asked one of panelists "if i gave you a chicken and said 'eat it, otherwise i'll kill another chicken' what would you do?"

he had absolutely no reply to that at all. i guess it applies in this case also. sure, working in substandard conditions isn't a desirable outcome, but when compared to the alternative their future suddenly looks a lot brighter, sadly enough.

as long as there is supply, there will be demand