tackling the big issues....Ethical consumption - do you give a damn?
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lostpunk5545
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I try but I'm not perfect
Nike was no obstacle to overcome - I've never worn sports clothes so I was effectively already boycotting them.
"How long will it be before we recognise that we will be more secure when the rest of the world doesn't live in poverty so we can have cheap sneakers?" (Anon, 2001)
Corporate fast food was fairly easy to give up. I became vegetarian at the age of 19 so that fairly well cut down my options anyways. Then one day I decided that I was only going to purchase food while out from mum and pop stores - I haven't regretted it - the food is ten times better, the service friendlier, the extra wait dealable.
Unfortunately on occasions I still drink coke. If I'm at TAFE and I've had a full day of work before hand I sometimes drink it when I don't feel like coffee. At a bar I will still drink a scotch and coke (most have it in those hose things).
I'm not happy with myself at all about this. Coke is one of the fucking worst companys around on this planet. Besides wasting billions of dollars on advertising while millions still starve (and what large company doesn't do this?) they have been known to hire death squads to kill unionists in South America. They were also recently were successfully sued by some Indian (India) women who had to walk miles every day to gather water after coke took over the towns drinking supply in order to taint it with their shitty murderous drink.
If I purchase soft drink at a supermarket I usually just buy the no brand ones, if you check the bottles, coke and pepsi own nearly all of the soft drinks. If I can help it fuck giving either of those cunts money.
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While I'll admit I do let things slide (what choice do you have besides moving to a hippy commune - most companys are inherantly evil), I am usually pretty decent at being an ethical consumer.
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When I saw Jello Biafra do spoken word in Sydney he advised people not to jump right into the extremist side of things as some people can get too intensely into everything and then swing the completely opposite way a few years later in frustration at the lack of world change. He recommended that just making small changes in your life like not buying coke on a particular day is a good step in the right direction. I think it was pretty good advice...
I found a similar quote from him in an interview so here it is-
"JB: I don't want to put it in black and white fundamentalist terms where it's like the more radical-then-thou are the only people who are doing right, and if you don't do as much as I do you're against everything, I mean, that's bullshit. It turns people off to good ideas as badly as fundamentalist Christians do. I mean, there's fundamentalist radicals, fundamentalist punks, fundamentalist vegans, I think we all know a few of that. Fundamentalism is poison. So, we do what we can and doing something is better then doing nothing. But it also means picking up actions and a life style you can live with and live up to, instead of something that makes you miserable to the point where you cross over to the other side 'cause you don't see any other way out 'cause you see stuff in too much of a black and white way because you're a radical fundamentalist. I try to encourage people to get away from that. I mean, there's a side of me that's a decadent rock-and-roller as hell, and some people don't like that, but that's me too."
Source
Nike was no obstacle to overcome - I've never worn sports clothes so I was effectively already boycotting them.
"How long will it be before we recognise that we will be more secure when the rest of the world doesn't live in poverty so we can have cheap sneakers?" (Anon, 2001)
Corporate fast food was fairly easy to give up. I became vegetarian at the age of 19 so that fairly well cut down my options anyways. Then one day I decided that I was only going to purchase food while out from mum and pop stores - I haven't regretted it - the food is ten times better, the service friendlier, the extra wait dealable.
Unfortunately on occasions I still drink coke. If I'm at TAFE and I've had a full day of work before hand I sometimes drink it when I don't feel like coffee. At a bar I will still drink a scotch and coke (most have it in those hose things).
I'm not happy with myself at all about this. Coke is one of the fucking worst companys around on this planet. Besides wasting billions of dollars on advertising while millions still starve (and what large company doesn't do this?) they have been known to hire death squads to kill unionists in South America. They were also recently were successfully sued by some Indian (India) women who had to walk miles every day to gather water after coke took over the towns drinking supply in order to taint it with their shitty murderous drink.
If I purchase soft drink at a supermarket I usually just buy the no brand ones, if you check the bottles, coke and pepsi own nearly all of the soft drinks. If I can help it fuck giving either of those cunts money.
-------------------
While I'll admit I do let things slide (what choice do you have besides moving to a hippy commune - most companys are inherantly evil), I am usually pretty decent at being an ethical consumer.
---------------------
When I saw Jello Biafra do spoken word in Sydney he advised people not to jump right into the extremist side of things as some people can get too intensely into everything and then swing the completely opposite way a few years later in frustration at the lack of world change. He recommended that just making small changes in your life like not buying coke on a particular day is a good step in the right direction. I think it was pretty good advice...
I found a similar quote from him in an interview so here it is-
"JB: I don't want to put it in black and white fundamentalist terms where it's like the more radical-then-thou are the only people who are doing right, and if you don't do as much as I do you're against everything, I mean, that's bullshit. It turns people off to good ideas as badly as fundamentalist Christians do. I mean, there's fundamentalist radicals, fundamentalist punks, fundamentalist vegans, I think we all know a few of that. Fundamentalism is poison. So, we do what we can and doing something is better then doing nothing. But it also means picking up actions and a life style you can live with and live up to, instead of something that makes you miserable to the point where you cross over to the other side 'cause you don't see any other way out 'cause you see stuff in too much of a black and white way because you're a radical fundamentalist. I try to encourage people to get away from that. I mean, there's a side of me that's a decadent rock-and-roller as hell, and some people don't like that, but that's me too."
Source
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Carbine
Ex-Bluelighter
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My take on the issue is that pictures of a couple of black people in sweatshops aint enough to tugg at my heart-strings. People's livelyhood isn't worth enough to me as are the savings I make and the way a jumper/skirt/pair of shoes looks on me. I just dont have feelings for those people - yes, I live fairly comfortably, but I also have shite to deal with and some eejit who has to work 18 hrs a day in unsafe conditions aint my problem...
(i'm not being a troll here, but i am saying it like it is)
Now on to more pleasant topics - I just had a gorgeous IVORY bangle smuggled in for me from India. Sorry, Dumbo, but it looks absolutely stunning against my tan...
(i'm not being a troll here, but i am saying it like it is)
Now on to more pleasant topics - I just had a gorgeous IVORY bangle smuggled in for me from India. Sorry, Dumbo, but it looks absolutely stunning against my tan...
Carbine
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zag0r - well I'm NOT! But I AM a marketer and the bottom line to me is KING. Jesus christ, if it matters that much, any company that's up with the trend will adhere to the Social Responsibility Theory and set up a Ronald McDonald House of their own. FFS, do you think these ppl are doing it out of the kindness of their hearts?!? Are people really that blind?
Pleonastic
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I never really cared because I never really looked into it much. It's actually really easy not to care because it is very easy to ignore, or at most to reduce to the simple "everyone does it so why fight it" line. I've said that line myself many times, probably not too long ago, and probably on bluelight somewhere in response to a similar thread.
However...
The more you look into it, the more you realise that something must be done. Exactly what must be done is the hard question, and I agree that simply boycotting products probably won't achieve anything unless enough people do it (besides making you feel warm and fuzzy). And I can also see the point that it's almost too wide spread to avoid. But something must be done.
Thinking more about it, I'm starting to realise that often the left wing view is dismissed as a hippy rant rather than an argument because the people they're arguing with won't acknowledge there's even a problem. Why do these tree huggers get so worked up? It's not going to change anything? I still get my pay check, have access to pretty much whatever I want, and as far as I can see everything is rosey. And those who can actually see the problem find it frustrating that they can't get their message across, not because their arguments lack logic, but because they're about more complicated issues than most people are willing to think about.
I mentioned in another thread that I recently saw The Corporation. It's actually changed my view on a fundamental concept that surrounds all these issues - namely that the people can make a difference. The section near the end about the Bolivian population winning back control of their privatised water supply was inspirational. I've often laughed at "professional protesters" who want to free the refugees one day and stop live sheep exports the next. I laughed because it didn't seem like it would ever make a difference, and as it stands it probably won't. Those issues have grey areas anyway, and I still think a lot of the time some of the protesters can't see the forest for the tree shaped "vote green" signs. But given an issue important enough - one that may have real consequences for enough people like restrictions on water - the people can (and hopefully will) fight back.
The question then, is what needs to be done to make the issues important enough that enough people will care to do something about them? Some basic steps would be to:
However...
The more you look into it, the more you realise that something must be done. Exactly what must be done is the hard question, and I agree that simply boycotting products probably won't achieve anything unless enough people do it (besides making you feel warm and fuzzy). And I can also see the point that it's almost too wide spread to avoid. But something must be done.
Thinking more about it, I'm starting to realise that often the left wing view is dismissed as a hippy rant rather than an argument because the people they're arguing with won't acknowledge there's even a problem. Why do these tree huggers get so worked up? It's not going to change anything? I still get my pay check, have access to pretty much whatever I want, and as far as I can see everything is rosey. And those who can actually see the problem find it frustrating that they can't get their message across, not because their arguments lack logic, but because they're about more complicated issues than most people are willing to think about.
I mentioned in another thread that I recently saw The Corporation. It's actually changed my view on a fundamental concept that surrounds all these issues - namely that the people can make a difference. The section near the end about the Bolivian population winning back control of their privatised water supply was inspirational. I've often laughed at "professional protesters" who want to free the refugees one day and stop live sheep exports the next. I laughed because it didn't seem like it would ever make a difference, and as it stands it probably won't. Those issues have grey areas anyway, and I still think a lot of the time some of the protesters can't see the forest for the tree shaped "vote green" signs. But given an issue important enough - one that may have real consequences for enough people like restrictions on water - the people can (and hopefully will) fight back.
The question then, is what needs to be done to make the issues important enough that enough people will care to do something about them? Some basic steps would be to:
- Don't have a strong opinion unless you really believe it. Educate yourself to the point where you understand the issue well enough to be able to coherently back up a strong opinion. Think for yourself, don't regurgitate other people's opinions. If you don't understand then ask questions. And if you won't understand then shut the fuck up.
- Talk to other people about the issues, not to force them to change their minds, but to give them information that might help them to change their minds on their own.
up all night
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I really can't work out if Carbine is serious or not. I think I'm going to take that post as a joke.
VVV Smiley: Yeah I was pretty sure that bit was a joke but still wasn't sure about the rest of the post or the one after it. I know people like that - that's probably why.
VVV Smiley: Yeah I was pretty sure that bit was a joke but still wasn't sure about the rest of the post or the one after it. I know people like that - that's probably why.
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smileyfish
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Excellent post Pleo! You are right about the uninformed agitators - one of the biggest problems for the left is ignorance amongst the ranks. There's a definate need for moderate, infomed and intelligent discussion.
Up All Night: I'd seriously hope someone saying they have an ivory bracelet because it looks great with their tan isn't serious.
Up All Night: I'd seriously hope someone saying they have an ivory bracelet because it looks great with their tan isn't serious.
lost_boi
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Carbine said:
Pleasant - seriouisly8) what are you?
something about ivory hunters/smugglers gives me the shits so bad.
It's so fucken cruel.
I don't care how good it looks, just because it's rare doesn;t make it any better. It makes it worse. Theres a good reason for things being rare.8(
Taliana
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Pleonastic said:
You just hit the nail right on the head... people just dont want to THINK, they are too fucking comfortable living in their own little lives, helping to fuck up the alreayd fucked up world. AWARENESS of the problem is the first step.
And yes, i also saw that tv show, the corporation, but only the first 2 eps, it just expanded on things id alreayd read/learnt about. Once you get to see the picture as a whole, not just photos of sweatshops etc etc, is when you will finally understand the state of things.
Fight club delved into the whole credit card corporation thing no? i cant quite remember exactly the plot, but there needs to be more movies out, BLOCKBUSTER movies, that get this shit out to the masses, people are just letting themselves be controlled by society. (yeah i know that sounds stupid and contradictory, getting it out in a commercial way... but sometimes its the only way to get ppls attention)
I mean, think about it, in 10 yeras time, you want to start up your own business, but then 2 yeras later a big fucking chain opens up down the road, putting you out of business. This shit affects us. Get that through ya heads ppl. Do you really want to be getting paid a shitty wage as an employee, rather than owning your own, supporting your own economy?
quiet roar
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I actually think she was serious - worrying isn't it?up all night said:
Carbine
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Up All Night: Well, I'm not laughing...which part of my post do you find funny??
Lost Boi: when I said 'pleasant' I *was* being sarcastic. However, YES I did have ivory jewellry brought in for me and NO, I don't regret it. YES I am aware of what they do to young elephants to get that ivory *insert pained elephant noises here* and NO, I don't really care. I worked like hell to get a decent tan over summer and Ivory is perfect for showing it off.
Jesus F**K...believe me, that ivory made a bigger dent in my wallet than it will to the elephant population of India or wherever the hell it came from.
Lost Boi: when I said 'pleasant' I *was* being sarcastic. However, YES I did have ivory jewellry brought in for me and NO, I don't regret it. YES I am aware of what they do to young elephants to get that ivory *insert pained elephant noises here* and NO, I don't really care. I worked like hell to get a decent tan over summer and Ivory is perfect for showing it off.
Jesus F**K...believe me, that ivory made a bigger dent in my wallet than it will to the elephant population of India or wherever the hell it came from.
smileyfish
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Carbine, you disgust me. You "worked like hell to get a tan" 8( and use that to justify the killing of an animal that is already nearing extinction purely to serve your vanity. Hell, it's not like they use the rest of the elephant to make it worth while, they just leave it there to rot (it's also big buck elephents they klill- you think ivory comes from babies?). Seriously, what a selfish act.
For those who say "I can't do anything, it won't make a difference", maybe think about this - we all hold social responsibily to act on our morals.
'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'
For those who say "I can't do anything, it won't make a difference", maybe think about this - we all hold social responsibily to act on our morals.
'First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist, so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat, so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up for me.'
quiet roar
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I told you she was serious. Although I think she may be disturbed so maybe it's not all her fault.
Great quote smiley.
Great quote smiley.
Pleonastic
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Heh, that tan's gunna give you cancer one day, and then you'll be trampled on (pun intended) by the corporate health systems. 
Although I find your argument weak (since it basically amounts to an announcement that you're unwilling to check any facts), you're still entitled to your opinion. Which you've now stated. If you have anything further to add other than "you're wrong" and "I don't care" we'd be interested to hear it. Otherwise it looks like you've contributed everything you can to this debate.
Of course if your intention was to stir up shit then no doubt you'll be back soon for another round. But we all care about that about as much as you care about elephants.
Although I find your argument weak (since it basically amounts to an announcement that you're unwilling to check any facts), you're still entitled to your opinion. Which you've now stated. If you have anything further to add other than "you're wrong" and "I don't care" we'd be interested to hear it. Otherwise it looks like you've contributed everything you can to this debate.
Of course if your intention was to stir up shit then no doubt you'll be back soon for another round. But we all care about that about as much as you care about elephants.
Carbine
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Smiley: I disgust you, really? Cool - didn't realise i had the power to toy with someone's emotions like that. Anyway, I don't give a rats' whethere I disgust you or turn you on so much that you come all over your 'phat' pants...p*ss off, you mean nothing to me.
Quiet Roar: right, yep I'm disturbed - totally. Disturbed by a bunch of stupid hippie ravers who justify themselves by posting back and forth on a board what great people they are and how much they wanna help the world. It shits me to tears quite frankly.
And just for the record, I have a good job, an excellent position at uni, a lot of friends and generally quite a good life, so DO NOT accuse me of being 'disturbed' because believe me, if we went head to head in a psychological screening, I would kick your arse to Haiti and back.
Taliana [edited personal attacks] your multicoloured dreadlocked opinions carry no weight with me.
Now, where's my snakeskin handbag...?
Quiet Roar: right, yep I'm disturbed - totally. Disturbed by a bunch of stupid hippie ravers who justify themselves by posting back and forth on a board what great people they are and how much they wanna help the world. It shits me to tears quite frankly.
And just for the record, I have a good job, an excellent position at uni, a lot of friends and generally quite a good life, so DO NOT accuse me of being 'disturbed' because believe me, if we went head to head in a psychological screening, I would kick your arse to Haiti and back.
Taliana [edited personal attacks] your multicoloured dreadlocked opinions carry no weight with me.
Now, where's my snakeskin handbag...?
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