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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread v. 19

Shooting Suboxone isn't really safer I would say. Yeah, there's definitely less risk of an overdose, so I guess in that way it is, but as far as shooting up pharmaceuticals, it's probably among the worst in terms of vein damage. I only have experience with shooting the IR hydromorphone tabs, so IDK much about the XR's, but either way, he should look into getting some micron filters.
 
Suboxone + Can-I-Bus

I think the most effective way to take bup sublingual is by first smoking some good chronic and get you a case of cotton mouth going prior then once your mouth isn't full of saliva.

So once this is accomplished stick your dose under your tongue or if you use strips stick it between teeth and gums on your upper right gums and poof. Obv less saliva will cause less chances of losing BA and take a bit longer but thoroughly dissolves.

Opinions? Agree? Disagree? Placebo? I know everyone talks about taking potentiators prior to dosing, and those range from antihistamines to benzos, or alcohol.. I've read this all. So why not cannabis too? It's proven some strains of cannabis help boost (energize) an opiate/opioid high.

Please BL, help me understand this.




P.S.
I know different R.O.A. and bioavailabilities, I'm actually a nurse that's currently switched back to subs after partying like Chris Farley for a few months while being off.. Just curious about this certain method and the cannabis acting as or being potentiator-like.


– Duke
 
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thedukeofraoul said:
I think the most effective way to take bup sublingual is by first smoking some good chronic and get you a case of cotton mouth going prior then once your mouth isn't full of saliva.

So once this is accomplished stick your dose under your tongue or if you use strips stick it between teeth and gums on your upper right gums and poof. Obv less saliva will cause less chances of losing BA and take a bit longer but thoroughly dissolves.

Opinions? Agree? Disagree? Placebo? I know everyone talks about taking potentiators prior to dosing, and those range from antihistamines to benzos, or alcohol.. I've read this all. So why not cannabis too? It's proven some strains of cannabis help boost (energize) an opiate/opioid high.

Please BL, help me understand this.




P.S.
I know different R.O.A. and bioavailabilities, I'm actually a nurse that's currently switched back to subs after partying like Chris Farley for a few months while being off.. Just curious about this certain method and the cannabis acting as or being potentiator-like.


– Duke
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From what I've been told by a few sub docs is that having dry mouth will actually prevent the sub from getting broken down and absorbed correctly. The saliva isn't going to hurt BA, the key is the just push the saliva thru the teeth and let it coat the gums,sides and roof of mouth, cheeks, as well as under the tongue instead of JUST under the tongue. And then obviously the key is to not swallow any of it for at least 10 minutes because it's inactivated and destroyed if swallowed. I just tilt my head forward for 10 min and sort of "swish" (yes I know that sounds gross lol) and it seems to help. The hardest part is not talking (or drinking/eating) during that time!
 
RJF said:
I've used suboxone the IV way for bout 3yrs now, well for bout a yr now even tho I'm in the vein it will burn, I'll check & blood is flowing fine dark blood, but for some reason it Burns like he'll... Can anyone tell me why
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Never heard of it burning and I've got very sensitive veins do to the damage they have, yet subs don't hurt them at all. Some idiot talked me into IVing addy and now THAT burns like hell and also causes a bright red splotchy rash that itches afterwards. The same thing that morphine and H do to me without the pins/needless (and obviously no euphoria, just anxiety and heart palpitations).
 
Opiephoric!. said:
Yeah at lower doses buprenorphine metabolite norbuprenorphine is active and acts as a full agonist or it is a full ag. I learned that from various sites on buprenorphine and this site too. I think that could be the case. I am generally easygoing and cool with alot, but I even get pissed at commercials lately! And my parents get on to me about not attending meetings, they think I'm half assing being clean. "You can't just rely on suboxone to keep you off that crap!" Is what they say. Although I like weed, and benzos so I'm not going to go waste my time being a phony fuck at meetings. My parents obviously don't know I do those still, I am 25 but have to lie about Everything I do!

Like I said before meetings are a waste unless you truly want sobriety. I used to go just to keep the parents off my back and people hound you there! I tried to keep my weed smoking to myself and considered being off heroin a big accomplishment for me, but if I went to meetings and kept quiet, people really wanted me to speak or felt I was wasting time. You can't get better if you don't open up they'd say, bitch I don't even want to be here! I'm just doing what the parents say so I don't get kicked out
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I believe that it does act more like a full agonist at doses of 2mg and less, but for those who are using this argument for reasons they can get high after dosing subs,it's not because a low dose is acting as an agonist, believe me that low dose is holding on to receptors very tight. And those receptors are blocking any other opiate. BUT, low doses only occupy a certain percentage of receptors, like say 25% at 2mg, so that leaves 75% of receptors open for other full agonists. If the dose was IVd it apparently metabolized much faster and therefore therefore opens up receptors much faster.
 
question:

1) is 1g per day of H too high a dose to attempt detox with subutex/suboxone? I can't seem to taper lower than that, but the SUBS MUST work to some degree--i can't handle straight up withdrawal.

2) do you all have any advice for preventing lots of vomiting during withdrawal? That's the only part of the symptoms that I just can't deal with.

3)finally, longshot, anyone have any doctor recommendations for detox in Ventura County, CALIF area?
thanks!
j
 
jjacobsen said:
question:

1) is 1g per day of H too high a dose to attempt detox with subutex/suboxone? I can't seem to taper lower than that, but the SUBS MUST work to some degree--i can't handle straight up withdrawal.

2) do you all have any advice for preventing lots of vomiting during withdrawal? That's the only part of the symptoms that I just can't deal with.

3)finally, longshot, anyone have any doctor recommendations for detox in Ventura County, CALIF area?
thanks!
j
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1. Suboxone should work well to alleviate your wd symptoms, from a 1g/day habit.
2. Normally vomiting is a symptom that starts in the 2nd or 3rd stage of acute wd, depending on what type of opioid, usually 48+ hours after last dose, you should be inducted on sub well before this stage. But antihistamines have been known to help reduce vomiting, although they will exacerbte your other wd symptoms, especially rls. Also make sure you're drinking plenty of water, vomiting will dehydrate someone fairly quickly.
3. Google dude.
 
thanks a lot friend. I know to google information; I was just hoping someone knew a doctor they liked, as there are so many stories about insenstive, incompetent doctors.
As for the antihistamines--normal dose per the bottle, or really large dose?
 
^It's a valid question man. It's a harsh reality that even folks that work at a clinic, the pharmacist who dispenses the sub/done to the Dr prescribing, they genuinely care, they don't really care but pretend to right up to the worst kind who just cannot hide their judgement - I loved my clinic and will likely go back there when I need to go off my pain meds to get my tolerance down which worked well for me. Two years of oxycodone led to an average daily dose of 480mg's and even though I was prescribed a max of 32mg per day I know that 4-6mg held me just fine. After about 6 months I went back onto oral morphine this time at 2 x 40mgs (80mg daily) and that held me just fine even with a little pain relief.... Had the dose upped to 2 x 60mgs per day and the pain relief improved enough so I'll go along with that as long as I can.

I struggled to taper off the oxy mostly because I was only taking enough to keep myself well between doses which is ultimately what happens as you know. Oxy is so much more addictive than oral morphine in my opinion, I know the BA of Morphine when taken orally is shite especially compared to oxycodone but it was a welcome change because my tolerance had me shit scared due to the possibility that I may require pain relief for surgery and I now realize how much that dose of opioids was contributing to my mental decline with regards to depression.

So I had a great clinic, no UA (urine analysis) and Doc would scribe me 100 x Valium per month. Suboxone resolved those opioid aches and pains and stabilized my mood beautifully.

Good luck JJ, wish you all the best.
 
Jumped off 2 mg of suboxone 4 weeks ago and still feel like shit,I was using oxys to help with the pain,did this prolong the withdrawals? I've come down from 40 mg to 10 mg in two days which seems to hold me although I use codeine and Benzos to help with the pain.suffering from severe depression I've been getting some really dark thoughts,I also get up in the morning and force myself to pump some weights on the old home gym then go for an hour walk which really releases the endorphins but also kills my legs,right now I'm in heaps of pain and am comteplating taking 20mg of oxy but am afraid it'll restart my WD clock,any advice would be very appreciated...hang in there everyone.
 
Ime

This method is no different than just IVing bup by itself.. and besides using any higher doses of diphenhydramine than suggested amount 25mg-50mg, is really just the "high/whatever" from IVing 100mg+ of benedryl.. just like if you IVed 100mg+ of any drug that is OTC (and water soluble) that causes drowsiness
 
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OK guys I've got a question for those of you who have been on micro doses of buprenorphine. I am currently at a daily dose of 0.38mgs of bup (two doses of 0.19 a day. Yesterday for the first time in about five years I took a full agonist opiate, PST. What I am wondering is if I take my normal morning dose of 0.19 of buprenorphine will it trigger Precipitated WDS? It has been about 13 hours since I took the PST. and about 28 hours since my last buprenorhpine dose.
 
Well I ended just waiting about 18 hours since the PST and toon the bupe (.19) with no complications or PWS. I have since then taken bupe shortly after(5 and 8 hours) PST with no issues. I believe this is because of the micro-doses of bupe that I use. Generally 0.19 but also 0.25 mgs.
 
Interesting abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14614092
Buprenorphine is a mixed opioid receptor agonist-antagonist used clinically for maintenance therapy in opiate addicts and pain management. Dose-response curves for buprenorphine-induced antinociception display ceiling effects or are bell shaped, which have been attributed to the partial agonist activity of buprenorphine at opioid receptors. Recently, buprenorphine has been shown to activate opioid receptor-like (ORL-1) receptors, also known as OP4 receptors. Here we demonstrate that buprenorphine, but not morphine, activates mitogen-activated protein kinase and Akt via ORL-1 receptors. Because the ORL-1 receptor agonist orphanin FQ/nociceptin blocks opioid-induced antinociception, we tested the hypothesis that buprenorphine-induced antinociception might be compromised by concomitant activation of ORL-1 receptors. In support of this hypothesis, the antinociceptive effect of buprenorphine, but not morphine, was markedly enhanced in mice lacking ORL-1 receptors using the tail-flick assay. Additional support for a modulatory role for ORL-1 receptors in buprenorphine-induced antinociception was that coadministration of J-113397, an ORL-1 receptor antagonist, enhanced the antinociceptive efficacy of buprenorphine in wild-type mice but not in mice lacking ORL-1 receptors. The ORL-1 antagonist also eliminated the bell-shaped dose-response curve for buprenorphine-induced antinociception in wild-type mice. Although buprenorphine has been shown to interact with multiple opioid receptors, mice lacking micro-opioid receptors failed to exhibit antinociception after buprenorphine administration. Our results indicate that the antinociceptive effect of buprenorphine in mice is micro-opioid receptor-mediated yet severely compromised by concomitant activation of ORL-1 receptors.
Click to expand...
 
YellowNikes said:
Well I ended just waiting about 18 hours since the PST and toon the bupe (.19) with no complications or PWS. I have since then taken bupe shortly after(5 and 8 hours) PST with no issues. I believe this is because of the micro-doses of bupe that I use. Generally 0.19 but also 0.25 mgs.
Click to expand...

Those are very low doses of bupe, even if it did precipitate WD, it would have been very mild, maybe barely noticeable. Although at doses of .5mg, I have noticed PWs come on even after waiting 20+hours after heroin use. It was certainly bearable and only lasted about 15min and raised my pulse, gave me the chills/tingly feeling, increased body aches, and made me sweat more. I was like oh fuck, but it went away in a few mins tho, then I started feeling better progressively. This was thru IV administration too I should add. If you are taking those small doses sublingually after waiting that long, I doubt PW would even be felt. It's when you go with doses >1mg is where I have gotten the worst PW. So it is best to just start small like you did.
 
Hey it's been a long time since I've been on this thread!! I am currently restarting Suboxone. I have been on methadone maintenance for 2 years. My high dose was 86 mg, and my ending dose was 28 mg. I made the switch fine. I took last dose of methadone on Tuesday am, and did sub induction Sat afternoon. I wanted to keep my Suboxone dose as low as possible as my end goal is fully taper off everything. But Sun I did some real junkie-like shit and took 24 mg of Suboxone. Yeah, I know how dumb that is, I'm actually pretty knowledgeable about Suboxone in general, ceiling effect, etc... I guess I'm just used to methadone. My question is what should I realistically aim for, for a starting dose of Suboxone??24 mg made me feel sick all day. I was on Suboxone once a few years back and started on 20 mg but very quickly tapered down to ~4 mg. Am I crazy to hope to do so again?
 
^The ceiling effect is 'supposedly' 32mg of suboxone, however I'm using it for pain at a higher dose & it works well for me, (in split doses).

IMHO I'd go to a clinic, (if possible), that you can dose at & starting once you're in WD, - the dr will increase your dose until you're comfortable.

Otherwise prepare to start low, maybe 8mg sub, stay in touch with dr & pharmacy, & perhaps have some benzos at hand,

You aren't crazy to think you can't taper down. Once you reach the right dose for you, as you go upwards, it shouldn't be too uncomfortable to drop quite rapidly,- well until you get to the small mgs.

As you likely know having done this once before. Good luck, think positive dude.

Rtp
 
Runtoparadise said:
^The ceiling effect is 'supposedly' 32mg of suboxone, however I'm using it for pain at a higher dose & it works well for me, (in split doses).

IMHO I'd go to a clinic, (if possible), that you can dose at & starting once you're in WD, - the dr will increase your dose until you're comfortable.

Otherwise prepare to start low, maybe 8mg sub, stay in touch with dr & pharmacy, & perhaps have some benzos at hand,

You aren't crazy to think you can't taper down. Once you reach the right dose for you, as you go upwards, it shouldn't be too uncomfortable to drop quite rapidly,- well until you get to the small mgs.

As you likely know having done this once before. Good luck, think positive dude.

Rtp
Click to expand...

Ceiling is actually around 3-4 mg, not 32mg.

I think what you mean to say is the 'rebound,' effect, in which doses of higher than ~32mg will actually make you LESS high, BC so much bupe is trying to attach to receptors simultaneously that it begins to 'block' itself.

?
 
^Nope, ceiling effect is 32 mg supposedly, but taken in split doses the effect on chronic pain is superior IMHO in greater doses than the standard 8mg etc.

Though I understand this thread is not about pain relief.

That's just my experience.

Rtp
 
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My doc gave me suboxone(2mg) film to help with withdrawals from scripted Norco and Oxycodone(over ten years) but also as a potential for pain mgmt. I had hyperalgesia(sp?)
I was off the Norco, etc for more than 2 days when I took the first 2mg sub film. I am super sensitive to meds.

Within 6-7 hrs I started vomiting. My doc said it was odd to vomit so long after but I had been nauseous for hours.

I was on Norco and Oxy for chronic pain and neuropathy. I want to restart the Sub for both continuing feelings of
withdrawals(mostly anxiety, restless leg, feel jittery) but more for pain control. I am really suffering. I know when
first off opiates our pain is super strong because endorphins have not kicked back in and I am doing all the stuff to
kick endorphins back in.

MY QUESTION IS.....if one of the ingredients in the sub film is making me vomit, am I stupid to think a smaller dose may NOT make vomit.

My doc suggested I cut the film in 1/4's and restart from there.

Also, should mention, I am having some minor surgery April 21 and my doc said to be off the sub at least 3 days before which just leaves me about 8 days to be on Suboxone. I dont know, I am discouraged and think maybe just go back to one of the many opiates my doc has scripted me through the years.

Thanks for any advice, experiences. I appreciate it.
D.
 
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