Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[comatoserct]

I took sub for the first time to day 4 mg I was wondering if it would hurt me if i took 10 mg hydrocodone ...

4mg is a fairly large dose. If you are planning to take only 10mg of hydrocodone, I can assume your tolerance is very low. You need to wait at least 48 hours (I would recommend 72) before you dose the hydrocodone. Taking it earlier isn't going to make you sick or have ill-effects, but you simply wont feel anything from it. If you plan on taking the hydro before the 48 hour period, you will need to take more. Something like 20mg, but don't overdo it. Just enough to feel it.

 

[bwanajzj]

Pretty dead in here lately, ain't it?

Anyways...

During a 2.5 week period I used IV methadone (average of 40 mg/day), ending friday (no dosing that day). The shooting was done as sterile as possible, and with micron filtering and all that extra precaution that the knowledge of HR can bring about. Why would I want to shoot methadone? Because as opposed to so many beliefs, it does produce a rush, quite a good one at that, and it can hold you for a very long time, the legs on that baby are something to be bragged about. And some methadone tablet preperations cant be filttered for unwanted paricles, just like Subutex/Suboxone/Temgesic and so many other pills can. But there is something about it being bad for your veins in high concentrations per volume water for injection.

Now, the plan is to do a 1 week rapid taper with buprenorphine, and then go cold turkey on all opioids. I really want it to be the last time I ever go through withdrawals, and I have recieved my last hand-out from the clinic wednesday, so it better be done. I don't want to be a street shuffler, trying to get my DOC, and I don't want to be associated with the MMT and ORT clinic anymore.

The Friday and half of Saturday were 'fine' without methadone, didn't seem to get serious wds, but I kept getting impatient, because I wanted to induce the bupe taper at around 36-48 hours after last methadone dose, as this was best fit for the scheduling of the taper, but still no awful wds.

My impatience had me, and I ended up dosing (1 mg buprenorphine IV'ed) since I was past the 40 hour mark at that time. I then went into a sort of delirious state, where I couldn't tell what was wds from before the shot of bupe, or if they were precipitated wds. Anyways, it must have been half and half, little methadone left and buprepnorphine induction. As a few hours went by, I felt ok.

I just hope that going from 40 mg methadone / day, to a quick taper of bupe, starting at 2.5 mg / day, and then decreasing with 0,5 mg every day until I hit zero.

It will be painful, but I want so bad to make it through to the other side. Where life is good without opiates. Like it used to be.

Anyone who has gone through similar, I'd like your input. And btw, I will have access to benzos and weed, but also need to taper out of benzos soon enough (been on a 2.5 month binge rotating different benzos). At zero intake before end of June is the plan ... Weed never seemed to be a problem, addiction wise.

Hell awaits...

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thanks captain h, yeah so I'm sure I'm fine the pain and bruising from the miss is gone. Can micron filters be used on individual doses or do you need to prep alot at once. Also is the difference between 30 and 31 gauge worth ordering them online since my local store only has 30s

Look into it, read the last link in my signature.

The 31G is worth ordering online. Some stores don't stock them, other ones do.

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

I hope it's ok to post this in here. I went thru 5 pages looking for the bupe w.d megathread nd didn't find shit, so I searched it and came up with multiples of the same thread. So I said fuck it and posted in here, if it's really the wrong place my bad can someone move it?

Anyway I've been on bupe maintienance for 6 months starting at 8mg and moving down to 4mg. I jumped off at 4mg. I went 5 days (with only a few trams the first 2 days). And needless to say it was pretty bad. On the 5th day I went back to my doc to see if I could get some comfort meds, and he Rx'ed me 2mg bupe. So from 5/18 till today (5/29) ive been dosing 2mg/day (11 days).

My question is since I went 5 days with no bupe, and took half the dose I jumped off at for 11 days (2mg) am I gonna be basically starting over with my w.d or will the pain be considerably less/not as bad?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Did you try the third post?

 

[Wolfmans_BrothEr]

Didn't see that, but I'll do it now

 

[Pegasus]

I hope it's ok to post this in here. I went thru 5 pages looking for the bupe w.d megathread nd didn't find shit, so I searched it and came up with multiples of the same thread. So I said fuck it and posted in here, if it's really the wrong place my bad can someone move it?

Anyway I've been on bupe maintienance for 6 months starting at 8mg and moving down to 4mg. I jumped off at 4mg. I went 5 days (with only a few trams the first 2 days). And needless to say it was pretty bad. On the 5th day I went back to my doc to see if I could get some comfort meds, and he Rx'ed me 2mg bupe. So from 5/18 till today (5/29) ive been dosing 2mg/day (11 days).

My question is since I went 5 days with no bupe, and took half the dose I jumped off at for 11 days (2mg) am I gonna be basically starting over with my w.d or will the pain be considerably less/not as bad?

It's not totally starting over, it is still probably not going to be great, though. I'd just taper as low as possible with some sort of opioid to ease off of the bupe.

 

[bwanajzj]

Great day to everyone! Pay-day here, and sunshine everywhere, so couldn't be better... or could it...

...finally, on day 5 of not ingesting any methadone, I am finally feeling all the positive effects of the buprenorphine (as mentioned in an earlier post I had a slip-up in my bupe ORT, with an average of 40mg/day for 2.5 weeks towards the end of my bupe taper - STUPID! I KNOW!).

I am using the last prescribed bupe for a 1-week tapering plan, from induction dose of 1 mg/day (which induced mild precipitated wds, 40+ hrs after last dose of methadone), then up to 2mg/day for 2-3 days, then drop with 0.5/day until 0, and then nada mas, nada menos. Then I want to stay clean. But at least I know that the next two days or maybe three, will be quite alright, until I start feeling the effects of the drastic drop in bupe. Yesterday was also OK overall, was productive, went to courses, and got some practical Babylon Bullshit done and over with, which I know I wouldn't be able to cope with during wd's the coming weeks...

I have completely emptied my buprenorphine stash into the IV solution used for tapering, so on that front, there should be no relapsing, unless I crawl back to the clinic and ask for more (my plan is to distance myself from the clinic and the dope community for a while, to get all the associations out of my head and my routines).

Hopefully benzos will take the worst wd's during the 1st week, then I plan to taper those down and drop those completely too, by end of june (leaving me cold turkey on benzos after a 3 month dabble with those, of all sorts). So the next couple of weeks/months, I am going to be one jonesey motherfucker!

But power to the greener grass on the other side - speaking of which, taking care of plants that require a high degree of attention can be good therapeutically to get through PAWS (so I am growing me some ganja for smokin' in the fall/winter season, amongst other plants like Kanna etc.), as well as drawing, playing guitar-or another instrument, and other hobbies, not to forget EXERCISE! Gotta get my legs out there and running... already biking a hell of a lot. Thing is to keep at it!

I wish you all the best, and for those living in the Northern Hemisphere, I think we can soon say that summer has arrived, and for those who have just finished exams or are close to:
Listen to School's Out by Alice Cooper. I know I will when time comes around mid-end of June.
And then smoke a fat spliff. Without any opiates in my system, geared for festivals and summer parties, and pussy!
Hopes are high, but so is the willpower. We'll see how that holds out, once I have no opiates to take

1 - bwanajzj

 

[MemphisX3]

i have a question for the people who are on suboxone maintenence....


do your docs have you on benzos? do they prescribe them to you? is it normal to be on a low dose benzo while on suboxone? i am planning on asking my doctor to prscribe me a benzo such as diazepam to combat all of te negative emotions i have been running from, going to ask him to start me out at 20mg a day...anyone think this is a bad idea?

 

[SubDude]

It can be tricky and depends on the dr. My first subs dr said absolutely NO! However, when she left the clinic I was assigned a new one and he gives me low dose Klonopins. IMO never ask or tell a dr what you want prescribed.... especially if they know you're an addict. Just look up the symptoms for benzos like panic attacks, extreme nervousness around others [people you don't know] or in public places... to the point it causes shaking, sweating...etc. I told my dr I've become a recluse because they took my valiums away when I went on subs. So he prescribed K-pins. Now if I choose to use xanax occasionally... no problem with the requred monthly urine tests.

 

[illuminati soulja]

when i was on bupe i was also on k-pins but the k-pins were prescribed by my psychiatrist and my sub doc had no problem with it. In fact on my induction for the subs he was going to write me .5mg 3xday until i told him i was already scripted 5mg/day.

 

[MemphisX3]

when i was on bupe i was also on k-pins but the k-pins were prescribed by my psychiatrist and my sub doc had no problem with it. In fact on my induction for the subs he was going to write me .5mg 3xday until i told him i was already scripted 5mg/day.

was the psychiatrists associated with the sub clinic? my sub clinic provides a counselor but im pretty sure she is only a psychologist, and thus, can not prescribe anything. i am just going to tell both opf them straight up that i need something to help the anxiety/guilt/greif

 

[illuminati soulja]

was the psychiatrists associated with the sub clinic? my sub clinic provides a counselor but im pretty sure she is only a psychologist, and thus, can not prescribe anything. i am just going to tell both opf them straight up that i need something to help the anxiety/guilt/greif

No there was no association between the two.
Yeah i would go ahead and tell them that.. say it's so bad you cant sleep or sometimes your anxiety is so bad you are nervous to leave your house. If it interferes with your life like that than if they have any conscience (sp?) they will help you.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

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What: Suboxone = buprenorphine/naloxone. Bupe is a partial agonist(mu) and antagonist(kappa). Bupe has higher mu affinity that most opiates, including some antagonists(naloxone, naltrexone). Its higher affinity allows you to shoot suboxone tablets. It also may cause precipitated withdrawals if you are dependant on other opiates. Also, its higher affinity blocks the affects of other opiates when taken in conjunction with bupe.

Dose: Depends on tolerance. 1-2mgs is a typical recreational dose for someone with no tolerance. If you're using bupe to taper off of another opiate, you should dose once you're experiencing wd's(typically 36-48 hrs. for most opiates). Start with 2-4mgs and dose at 2mg increments every 30-45minutes until a dose holds you. Most people take their full dose once a day.

Withdrawal: Typical physical and psychological symptoms associated with opiate withdrawal. Insomnia, chills, diarrhea, depression, anxiety, lacrimation, sweating, increased heart rate, etc. They are not as strong as a full agonist's symptoms, but may last longer. Physical symptoms last 1-2 weeks on average and psychological symptoms may last months.

As most opiates, it's recommended to taper down to the lowest dose possible before stopping. <1mg is ideal. The best way to dose at that level is to crush up a tablet and divide the powder into lower doses.

Ceiling: 24-32mgs

Bioavailability:

Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intraduodenal: 9.7%

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"

intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

intravenous: 98%-100%

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

transdermal: 15%

Other Notes:

• Bupe is CIII in the US.
• Metabolized by CYP3A4(see potentiation thread for potentiators).
• Half-life: 37 hours.
• Drug tests: Not detected by regular 5 panel tests.
• A interesting thread by 'medicine cabinet' about a new version of Suboxone that's currently being tested can be found here.
• Buprenorphine gets metabolized into norbuprenorphine and into conjugated buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine.
• Severe opiate withdrawal in a heroin user precipitated by a massive buprenorphine dose

Images:

Subutex

Suboxone

Generic Subutex Manufacturer: Roxane

Generic 2mg Manufacturer: Teva | Generic 8mg Manufacturer: Teva

Suboxone Film Strips

Temgesic, 0.2mg

Buprenex Ampules

Locate a doctor that prescribes Suboxone.

Suboxone Assistance Program - Free Suboxone for Low Income Patients

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How long after my last bupe dose can I take an opiate and feel its effects?
A: It depends on what dose of bupe you were taking and how long. The short answer is 36-48 hours, though it may certainly be less, or more than that. Caution should be used when dosing, as you will still have a tolerance but it will not be as high as it was when you first got on bupe.

Q: I'm thinking about switching from methadone to bupe. At what methadone dose should I be when I switch?
A: Most places recommend being at 30-40mgs of methadone when switching. That may be hard to achieve since that level is lower than the recommended therapeutic maintenance level. Also, you'd have to wait at the very least 36-48 hours before your last methadone dose to switch in order to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Q: Is bupe good for depression/anxiety?
A: Yes, it may help with depression and anxiety. It is not currently prescribed for either and its effectiveness has not been studied for long term use for either. You may be able to get it prescribed off label for depression/anxiety, but its not likely to happen. Here is an article on PubMed about a study on bupe being used to treat depression.

Q: Is bupe recreational?
A: Yes. Although it is rarely the preferred opiate for people who have experience with full agonists, a few people do prefer it to full agonists (i.e. morphine).

Q: Can you overdose on buprenorphine?
A: Yes you can, but typically not by itself. Buprenorphine causes respiratory depression which may lead to death, but typically wouldn't do so in a healthy individual, unless you combined other CNS depressants with buprenorphine, like benzodiazepines, alcohol, barbiturates, and other downers. The person most likely to OD on bupe has a low(if any) tolerance to opiates and may have taken another depressant. A buprenorphine overdose may not be reversed by naloxone(or naltrexone for that matter) due to bupe's higher affinity. Diprenorphine may reverse the overdose, but it is not regularly stocked by emergency personnel or hospitals. If a proper antagonist isn't available, the person suffering an overdose may be maintained with assisted respiration.

Q: Can I still get high on other opiates if I'm on bupe?
A: This depends on what dose of bupe you're on. You will most likely be able to shoot through a low dose of bupe (1-2mgs). Though some might be able to expect the full effects of the opiate you're shooting through with, it is often only partially felt for many people. Even at higher doses, if you take enough of the opiate you may feel it. This is not recommended, as you may overdose before reaching the desired recreational effects. It is better to wait until bupe is no longer effecting you, or to stick the course with bupe treatment.

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541906

. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

Q: Is Suboxone safe to IV?
A: In essence, you should not shoot Suboxone. Unless you have enough patience and money to afford and use micron filters, Suboxone or Subutex, like any other pill, has risks when IVing. Missing a shot of Suboxone or Subutex may be more detrimental to your health, when compared to shooting out of a sterile ampule, or pure drugs in sterile water. Please read up on injection complications regarding pill based drugs, like Subutex, in the Case Studies thread. It is better, if you are truly intending on IVing buprenorphine (outside of the ampule version Buprenex), to read up on my Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ and then purchase the necessary supplies to help enable a safer shooting experience for yourself.

Q: How good is bupe as an analgesic? What are the pain-killing properties like in comparison to other opiates?
A: This may vary from individual to individual, but what I can say for the average person, you will probably find that it is about half as good feasibly speaking as an analgesic (pain-killing) medication, compared to an equipotent dose of heroin, morphine, oxycodone, and so on. I have talked to several people who are pain patients, and they have a general consensus that while full agonist opiates are much better in the pain killing department, buprenorphine does help considerably when taking off the edge in mild to somewhat moderate pain cases. For people with moderate to heavy or severe pain issues, buprenorphine can do but only so much.

Q: If I am a pain patient, can I utilize buprenorphine?
A: Yes, it is possible. It will be most likely you will combine a compatible drug, like tramadol with it. However if you are going to combine full agonist opiates like morphine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, heroin, and so on, you are probably going to want to take a dose of buprenorphine first, and then once the effects are going, you can use other full agonist opiates on top of buprenorphine. However, you can't take another dose of buprenorphine until the full agonists have left your system. This is why if you're already dependent on full agonist opiates, it's better not to use buprenorphine as well (as you may go into precipitated withdrawal). If you have mild to moderate pain at best, and it flares up sometimes but doesn't at others, then you may be able to combine both buprenorphine and a full agonist on the days you need to, and then on the days you don't, you can stick to strictly buprenorphine.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Suboxone Mega Thread Directory - Other links about buprenorphine in Other Drugs

Alcohol and Suboxone - Alcoholic Solutions for Higher BA With Sublingual Use**
Buprenorphine and Antihistamine IV FAQ
Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?
Buprenorphine dosages commonly prescribed are unnecessarily high
Buprenorphine for depression?
Buprenorphine patches
Buprenorphine withdrawals?
Ketoconazole Potenation of Suboxone
Mephedrone and Buprenorphine
Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ - How to Micron Filter Suboxone
Nasal Administration of Suboxone - Issues
Rectal (Plugging) Buprenorphine
Suboxone in place of Naloxone in the event of an opiate overdose*
Suboxone sublingual film official thread
Subutex has gone generic
Tramadol and Suboxone

Discussion in the Suboxone mega thread goes along quite quickly, so we have a few other threads to promote intermediate/advanced discussion of buprenorphine and its formulations. These threads are meant to divert some of the more advanced discussion that otherwise becomes buried in the mega thread.

If there's another link you think which would go well in this list of related buprenorphine threads, please let me know. We're trying to reserve extra threads on buprenorphine for more intermediary/advanced discussion mostly to reserve the mega thread for a place for questions that can be answered quickly, and the other threads for a place for questions which will otherwise not get the same discussion going on in the mega thread, due to its quick pace.

If you have an idea for a new thread on buprenorphine, it's probably best to figure out by talking to a moderator first to see if it's thread worthy or should be discussed in the mega thread.

*Not Advised. Opiate antagonists are the only safe thing to do in case of an opiate overdose. Please do not give people Suboxone if they have overdosed.
**also known as "6/7's method" or "SixPartSeven's method"

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Welcome

Welcome to Version 13 of the Suboxone/Buprenorphine mega-thread, by Captain.Heroin!

Please remember, that the rules applicable to Other Drugs and Bluelight are all enforced, especially in this thread. Before posting in this thread, or in Other Drugs, please be familiar with the following resources:

Bluelight User Agreement (BLUA)

OD Forum Standards

OD Guidelines and Policies

The Frequently Asked Questions as well as the directory which links other major threads related to buprenorphine in Other Drugs - will have a lot of information which will be able to help you out. Searching yourself through these resources will often answer most questions quicker than posting a new thread in Other Drugs, since you would have to then wait for others to reply instead of going through previous discussion which has answered most common inquiries.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Version 13 is now open

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What's New? | Picking up where we left off...

The only new thing that I did was to change the image for the Suboxone film strips; the other Suboxone mega threads have pictures of demonstration film strips, which are the inactive ingredients without the active ingredients.

I have added a picture of an actual Suboxone film strip, the front side. The back side has identifiable information which I just didn't feel like editing out. I don't think anyone "needs" to see what the back looks like so I'll just include the front picture.

I also added a quick reminder to please use the FAQ and Suboxone Directory to help in assisting your questions.

Finally, I removed a dead link.

do your docs have you on benzos? do they prescribe them to you? is it normal to be on a low dose benzo while on suboxone? i am planning on asking my doctor to prscribe me a benzo such as diazepam to combat all of te negative emotions i have been running from, going to ask him to start me out at 20mg a day...anyone think this is a bad idea?

It's common for both to be prescribed together. I have had benzodiazepines prescribed by separate doctors while on Suboxone without issues.

Some doctors are assholes and won't let you be on them, so you just want to ask about this before going to a doctor, or, before switching doctors.

 

[Herbal~Jah]

I have never seen or heard of ANYONE being prescribed suboxone and benzo's at the same time. Even though it is completely safe in my experience, it seems like all doctors fear prescribing benzo's with suboxone like the plague!