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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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I never got the jerks on bupe, but always got it on heroin. Methadone doesn't make me jerk either, but I have never tried doses above 50 mg/day, so it might be dose dependant... wonder what the mechanism is behind the jerks... I guess it's the opiates disruption of natural sleep patterns, and the brain stimulation by opiates while one slowly goes from 'nod' to deep or REM sleep. It was a real relief for me when I went into buprenorphine ORT, to not get those jerks any more. I've also had two girlfriends who took 'happy-pills' due to some mild depressions before sleeping, and they would also get jerks. I never came around to figuring out exactly what the medication was, as they were very quiet about it, and then the relationships didn't go beyond a couple of weeks-months of mainly sexual relationships, so I am still wondering what it was that made the jerk. Does prozac do so, anyone?

In terms of the peeing, I never really made a big issue of it, but when I've been over at friends, or on excursions (field trips, field work, holidays, camping, etc.) with people and thus staying in the same living quarters as them, it was a bit of a pain to have to say that I needed to take a dump every time I needed to piss, because it would take that amount of time. And instead of having people wondering why I took so long to piss, I chose to have them think that I just shit a lot... hahahahaha....

And another thing... at festivals and that sort, or just out in the bush, it can be a real fun thing for the boys to line up for a piss, and I can never part-take in that sort of thing when on opiates... Nothing like pissing off a cliff with a couple of buddies, while enjoying the view and the sensation of the piss relief (a guy thing I think... girls might go to the bathroom together a lot, but when it comes to pissing in nature, I'm sure most dudes love pulling out their cock and just pissing wherever they want - a luxury that most opiate addicts must abstain from). Although I did have one friend who was just a big abuser of heroin as I was the previous years, and he never had this issue with peeing. He could snort a gram a day, and piss whenever he wanted, standing up... lucky son of a gun...
 
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holy smokes taking xanax with suboxone makes it feel completely like a full agonist... crazy...

im on maintence too.. i took 1mg of xanax and was floored..
 
Oh ROXIanne! said:
I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions on how to combat urinary retention cause by suboxone use, for me its harder to pee on subs than any full agonist I've tried. Its gotten so bad that I have to sit down every time and takes 10-15 before I even start peeing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Well I use dextro-amphetamine, and I have no urinary retention.

You could try lowering your buprenorphine dosage, this should help some.

cire113 said:
holy smokes taking xanax with suboxone makes it feel completely like a full agonist... crazy...

im on maintence too.. i took 1mg of xanax and was floored..
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I enjoy alprazolam and buprenorphine together, it is a good combination. I just definitely cannot use alprazolam or any other benzo on a daily basis.
 
Tolerance break

I've been on ~1mg of suboxone for about a year now. I take tolerance breaks every couple months to keep my dose low and my symptoms at bay. The breaks are usally one week long. In my last 1 week break, I reduced from 1.3mg to .8mg.

I take benzos for the whole week to keep withdrawal symptoms at bay and let me sleep. I began a break on Friday, and I had a damn hard time sleeping last night, even with benzos. I was also drinking however, and I think the rebound effect of the alcohol, coupled with the rebound effect of taking insufficient doses of benzoes throughout the night kept me up with restless leg syndrome for a couple hours.

I also took doxylamine, however, which I usually take to keep the itching from suboxone at bay, but I also know it cane xcacerbate RLS in oppiois withdrawal, so I'll stay off that for the week.

Any supplements or anything I should take to stay healthy? I'm trying to gain weight and I'm lifting every day (which should also help w/ds I hope), so I don't want to lose any weight during this break. Thanks for the help.

Edit: Before anybody asks why I don't just stop totally since I'm on such a low dose, let me explain. I have anxiety and insomnia that can't be treated by anything other than benzos or opiates, and bupe is the lesser of the evils. Also as many of you know, less is more with bupe, and side effects become much more apparent at high doses. I'm trying to avoid that.
 
rolodex propaganda said:
Any supplements or anything I should take to stay healthy? I'm trying to gain weight and I'm lifting every day (which should also help w/ds I hope), so I don't want to lose any weight during this break. Thanks for the help.
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You should stay on buprenorphine. Full agonist opiates reduce your endogenous testosterone levels, whereas buprenorphine does not do this.

There can be a lot accomplished by merely eating well, drinking a lot of water, and maintaining magnesium, potassium, calcium, and other mineral/vitamin levels in your body. This is what I would primarily focus on.
 
^I agree, I wouldn't mess with your brain chemistry more than is necessary. Going off bupe, on benzos, on and off doxylamine, etc... Each is an obstacle your brain and body has to cope with. Especially given that you're trying to bulk up, you don't want to constantly put your body through this. IMO, maintain on bupe until you're ready to quit and use benzos sparingly if you want the best results.

Remember, your body is a manifestation of your mind... Keeping both healthy helps each to grow.
 
Had a bupe question for anyone with experience. I have been clean for almost a year now, and by clean I mean I have not taken any opiates other than my bupe maintenance. I had a shitty day yesterday, and my girlfriend had a whole bunch of 30mg roxies her mother had given her. Needless to say I jumped on them and slammed 8 in one hit.

I used to switch back and forth from bupe to dope and bupe to oxy all the time without any trouble, but I would always feel horrible the day after I used, and be in a pretty heavy detox by about 15-16 hours post use, which let me know that it was OK for me to take my sub.

It's been 21 hours now, and I feel fine, almost like I never used. My back is maybe slightly sore, but my pupils aren't dilating, I'm not sweating, and I don't have the creeping dysphoria I remember so well.

So my question is, when I hit the 24 hour mark, do you guys think I'll be ok to go ahead and take it? I took my sub dose yesterday morning, so I never even missed a dose, but I have read about people saying that they waited however long and weren't in withdrawal, took their suboxone, and got put into PWD, which I would truly like to avoid.
 
^What I think happened is that the bupe didn't have a chance to leave your system before you took the oxy. This would be evident by a lack of oxycodone high. If so then you could take your bupe as normal. However if you did feel the oxy or if you have skipped a buperenorphine dose with oxy in its place I would still wait until you feel the detox. If you feel fine now it can't hurt to wait right?
 
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Using after taking suboxone - time frame

So I've heard alot of people swear by the fact that if one does not wait at least 24-36 hours after taking their dose of suboxone that it is extremely difficult to get high off of opiates such as oxycontin and heroin.

Last night, at 12:00 at night (12:00 AM) i took an 8mg suboxone tablet, sublingually. I am not prescribed suboxone, and do not regularly take suboxone. I have a fairly high tolerance to opiates (around 90-130mg oxycontin gets me off pretty well). Today, at around 2:00 PM (14 hours after taking the 8mg suboxone), i sniffed a bag of some fire ass china white diesel and got pretty ripped off of it, did another one and was nodding my face off.

Many would say this is impossible.

Did i get high off of the heroin despite having suboxone in my system because i am not on a maintenence program and it has not been building up in my system? Are the claims that you cannot get high on suboxone for at least 2 or 3 days after taking it directed at those who regularly dose suboxone, or everyone who even takes one tablet?

I got high as fuck, and I took a suboxone last night, but alot of people say this is impossible. I dont know what the reason is, but i know it was no placebo as i was pinned out badly and nodding like i said.

So whats going on here?
 
Buprenorphine builds up in your system when taken steadily. Since you only took that one dose this doesn't apply.
bupe22.jpg


Buprenorphine out-competes full agonist opioids at your mu-receptors. To get high after taking bupe you need to wait until enough of it has left to free up some of your receptors, or take large enough amounts of another opioid to push aside some of the bupe (not sure on the mechanism here something akin to chemical equilibrium I believe).

What likely happened for you is that enough of the drug had warn off that a bunch of your receptors were free to accept the diamorphine. In addition the bupe itself also contributes to getting you high and combined together you nodded. I'll merge this in the appropriate megathread once I find it.
 
^^ That graph two posts above is insane. I mean it makes sense but sheesh.

So if you take 8mg everyday, you have 40mg built up in your system if you're on it chronically. Does this mean if you take ~2mg each day, you have over 10mg in your system at a time?
 
^That is 16mg doses daily on the chart. I'd say you have around 5mg built up from 2mg daily, then.
 
ive taken 4mg a day for atleast the last 90 days.. i bet theres a ridiculosu amount of sub in my sysytem lol
 
Anyone who knows - is it true low dose buprenorphine (~1mg or less than) has a shorter half-life than high dose buprenorphine, so the above chart only applies if you take above a certain milligram dosage per day?
 
^Not true... Half-life is half-life. Bupe will accumulate if taken regularly, this is why I often recommend people taper to a low, every other / every third day dose at least, or use another opioid as a substitute for the last portion of the taper.
 
Drotaverine & Suboxone

Will Suboxone block the effects of drotaverine (No-Spa)?

It is an analogue of papaverine but I think it works differently..not sure.

Anyone know?
 
It doesn't appear to have any mu-opioid effects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drotaverine


I'm sure you can combine the two, unless the wikipedia article is not accurate.
 
Pegasus said:
^Not true... Half-life is half-life. Bupe will accumulate if taken regularly, this is why I often recommend people taper to a low, every other / every third day dose at least, or use another opioid as a substitute for the last portion of the taper.
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Not that disagree with your advice, but half-life is not half-life. It's just going to take a little more research and time for anyone in the medical field to care, generally it doesn't change anything because half-lifes are established at clinical doses.

The whole idea that your body removes half a substance in a given amount of time no matter how much or little of that substance you have ingested is obviously counter-intuitive.

Better advice would be to just never take bupe at 8mg or 16mg doses, there is absolutely no need for it other than maybe when you are right in the middle of WD's and even then 4mg should suffice. Don't care what your ignorant doctor says.

If you are taking bupe because your tolerance is still low enough that you get 'high' from it, 2mg per day MAX.

If you are taking bupe as maintenance and plan to jump off, after a little tapering .5 per day and you'll be fine until you decide it's ready to stop, then taper down to .25, skip days, taper down to .1, skip days. Will be generally painless, except for the lingering depression(which I believe we've come to the consensus is exacerbated by bupe's kappa antagonism) Which I find can be helped/shortened by a 50mg dose of naltrexone after acute WD is over(if there is any) and beginning LDN a week after that.

I've actually combined LDN at night while at the end of my taper(.25 bupe doses or less) which really seemed to help PAWS, but it could be all in my head.
 
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