Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[BoomBoxer]

Hi there sorry for not searching through this thread for the answers to my questions but i have neither the state of mind or the energy to read through this entire thread.

I have been on Subutex now for what must be getting on for a couple of years, i got my dose down to 0.4mg a day and decided to take a weeks holiday abroad and take no medication with me to do the final jump off the sub, i was on 16mg back when i started and i went through hell swapping over from H to Sub and im shocked just how similar this is now.

I can't sleep, goose bumps, anxious, so tensed up with RLS and even grinding my teeth, i have no option to take a small dose as im hundreds of miles away from home and no medication here.

I know i may have made a stupid mistake here going to a country where it's forecast to be 108 today as the heat just seems to make me worse.

My biggest fear is as it's only day 2 i will continue to get worse, is there anything i can get OTC in spain to help with the WD's? And i know everyone is different but if anyone can give me a timeframe before things will start to get better i would really appreciate it.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

I sympathize with you greatly on this, because I noticed out of all the drugs I been hooked on and cold turkeyed my way off (percs, dope, fent etc) suboxone, even at 1-2mg a day for 6mths is BY FAR the worst w/d I think I've ever had even in the 1-2 day range. I have no clue how long it last and don't really wanna find out either. Luckily I think for you, codeine and possibly Xanax? Are OTC in Europe. Not quite sure bout Spain but I hope for your sake I'm at least partially right. Try googling your ?

 

[mandrake]

I offer up my experience with suboxone in the hope that someone's suffering will be relieved. IMO buprenorphine is useless as an instrument for an 8 - 21 day detox off your DOC. Methadone is much more effective (providing you have no previous methadone addiction). Bupe's only utility is as a maintenance drug, ie if you can't see yourself being clean, get on it for a couple years for harm reduction but be prepared for a lot of pain when you get off.

I used it for 10 days on a tapering schedule in the mistaken belief it would mask withdrawals from an oxy/hydro habit. I was wrong. As many have said, bupe withdrawals are far worse than that of any pure agonist (other than methadone). At 1mg I was in hell. I went back on oxy/hydros for a week and jumped off them at 45mg. The abstinence syndrome from the codones are far less sinister and of much shorter duration than suboxone. After 96 hrs I was off my comfort meds and feeling no pain.

If you want to stop an opiate dependence (other than methadone) in a short timeframe, forget about subs. Just bite the bullet and jump off your DOC, whatever the dose. But do get some comfort meds - clonidine, valium, l-tyrosine, magnesium, temazepam.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

I offer up my experience with suboxone in the hope that someone's suffering will be relieved. IMO buprenorphine is useless as an instrument for an 8 - 21 day detox off your DOC. Methadone is much more effective (providing you have no previous methadone addiction). Bupe's only utility is as a maintenance drug, ie if you can't see yourself being clean, get on it for a couple years for harm reduction but be prepared for a lot of pain when you get off.

I used it for 10 days on a tapering schedule in the mistaken belief it would mask withdrawals from an oxy/hydro habit. I was wrong. As many have said, bupe withdrawals are far worse than that of any pure agonist (other than methadone). At 1mg I was in hell. I went back on oxy/hydros for a week and jumped off them at 45mg. The abstinence syndrome from the codones are far less sinister and of much shorter duration than suboxone. After 96 hrs I was off my comfort meds and feeling no pain.

If you want to stop an opiate dependence (other than methadone) in a short timeframe, forget about subs. Just bite the bullet and jump off your DOC, whatever the dose. But do get some comfort meds - clonidine, valium, l-tyrosine, magnesium, temazepam.

Good advice, so in my case, I been on smt for about 9 months. I noticed it raised my tolerance dramatically, and that even tho I'm on a low dose daily the w/d's r hell. Wats my doc (addiction specialist) gunna do once I decide it's time to get off this horrible shit? I doubt I'll b able to get prescribed real opiates to taper with, and it'd b way too expensive 2 Try n buy em on the street enuff to taper off with.

 

[Ronald MacDonald]

I just did a nice 2mg of suboxone and was wondering if it would still be ok to take a 10mg methadone pill not too long after? I would like to do just bup but I'm not feeling completely better and I think the methadone pill will probably get me there.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

The bupe has such a high affinity for the opioid receptors that me methadone wuld not have any stacking effect at all I don't believe. If at the current mg dose of bupe ur not getting relief (and by relief I don't mean high I mean no w/d symptoms) then perhaps u require a higher dose of bupe. More than likely if u just took it u need to wait 30-60 min before relief will set in

 

[BoomBoxer]

Hey guys just checking in, laying in bed was just too stressfull if that makes sense so dragged myself out and been looking what is available OTC here, it does seem a bit of a myth that you can still get benzo's here although it looks like codeine is still fine to get OTC. Im going to send someone out to go get some hopefully they will be able to and hopefully if they can it will help.

Cheers

 

[Ronald MacDonald]

The bupe has such a high affinity for the opioid receptors that me methadone wuld not have any stacking effect at all I don't believe. If at the current mg dose of bupe ur not getting relief (and by relief I don't mean high I mean no w/d symptoms) then perhaps u require a higher dose of bupe. More than likely if u just took it u need to wait 30-60 min before relief will set in

I appreciate the quick response. Normally I would consider myself just feeling a little uncomfortable, but I just got out of the hospital after 2 days of nausea and vomiting. So I would like to feel normal and relaxed for a bit (not trying to get high just want to get rid of slight nausea and "icky" WD feeling). It's been about 30 minutes since my first bup dose (I did 3 lines that probably total approx 2mg).

A friend got me two 10mg methadone pills to help my WDs. But I might wait for another half hour or so like Dirty said so the bup can fully kick in. If I still don't feel right, would there be any harm in taking one of the pills? I took one last night after leaving the hospital and it kept me straight through the night, but woke up early this morning feeling WD.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

Mixing bupe with any other opiate/opioid possibly still attached to ur receptor can b very bad. Can throw u into precipitated w/d's aka the bupe has a much higher affinity but is only a partial agonist, so it will kick whatever else is attached off and attach itself, but going from a full agonist to a partial so quickly causes you to get rlly nasty immediate w/d. Back to ur topic tho the methadone would just be wasted, as the bupe has a higher affinity, therefore the 'done can't attach itself because it's not strong enough to bump the bupe off. So hopefully the bupe will help u, and wait till moderate w/d again and then take ur methadone. I'm on bupe maintenance now so I kno how u feel. I'm guessing u can't get anymore bupe? Also, next time take the bupe sublingually if u want it to last longer, even tho the BA intranasally is about 15% higher that sublingual it will last longer, tho IN should of onset faster. Hope it helps hope ya feel better!

 

[Ronald MacDonald]

Mixing bupe with any other opiate/opioid possibly still attached to ur receptor can b very bad. Can throw u into precipitated w/d's aka the bupe has a much higher affinity but is only a partial agonist, so it will kick whatever else is attached off and attach itself, but going from a full agonist to a partial so quickly causes you to get rlly nasty immediate w/d. Back to ur topic tho the methadone would just be wasted, as the bupe has a higher affinity, therefore the 'done can't attach itself because it's not strong enough to bump the bupe off. So hopefully the bupe will help u, and wait till moderate w/d again and then take ur methadone. I'm on bupe maintenance now so I kno how u feel. I'm guessing u can't get anymore bupe? Also, next time take the bupe sublingually if u want it to last longer, even tho the BA intranasally is about 15% higher that sublingual it will last longer, tho IN should of onset faster. Hope it helps hope ya feel better!

Thank you, appreciate the help.

I'm going to wait till later like you said before I take the meth pill. I can get more sub also (I have one 8mg pill. I'm used to taking tiny amounts (.5-1mg) of sub and feeling better, but this time my tolerance must have gotten way higher from the H because I did 2 mg easy). I wanted to blow it because I wanted quick relief and the taste would probably make me vomit so I need to hold off a few days before sublingual.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

It's understandable lol yea like I said with bupe, the methadone wuld b digested and probably never effect u at all, better to stretch put ur supply. Even another .5 mg of bupe culd go a long way from ur 2mg to relief.


To the poster in Spain (sry on a iPhone can't see ur post while replying lol) that sucks you can't find benzos OTC , it may just b certain countries I'm not familiar with Spain, but yea I believe codeine is ur best bet, and to b honest idk how much of a help it will be with bupe because of how high bupe raises tolerance but it's sumthin. Also, it probably has acetaminophen with it, so depending on preference and for the safety of harm reduction can u perform a CWE? Cold water extraction::

 

[BoomBoxer]

From what i have read i believe i can get 30mg Codeine tablets with no APAP OTC, im also sending somebody a lot older than me in the hope they look more like they are getting it for legit reasons.

Im also going to tell them to get something that has no rec value at the same time maybe ibuprofen(?) or something to make it look better still because i think it is pharmacists discretion.

 

[BoomBoxer]

Got 20x30mg Will have to use them sparingly and only when really needed prolly at night time to get some sleep, i managed no sleep at all last night. No other things in them either like APAP.

Thnx

 

[Cameo]

Is it just me, or does anyone else's noes burn like hell when you sniff a sub? Also, I tried to read most of this thread, so Im sure this question has been answered, but I read something on here last night about maybe Subs having withdrawels?

 

[jokumies]

I recently ordered 2 blister of 8 mg subutex. After few times of use i realized that it causes me skin allergy and doesn't fit with my thyroid medication. So now i ahve alot left over and don't know waht to do to them... i really din't like sub so much, but i suppose effect vary with user. You really have to use wheel filrter when mainlining pills and it's a good idea with all iv

 

[jamesBrown]

Mixing bupe with any other opiate/opioid possibly still attached to ur receptor can b very bad. Can throw u into precipitated w/d's aka the bupe has a much higher affinity but is only a partial agonist, so it will kick whatever else is attached off and attach itself, but going from a full agonist to a partial so quickly causes you to get rlly nasty immediate w/d. Back to ur topic tho the methadone would just be wasted, as the bupe has a higher affinity, therefore the 'done can't attach itself because it's not strong enough to bump the bupe off. So hopefully the bupe will help u, and wait till moderate w/d again and then take ur methadone. I'm on bupe maintenance now so I kno how u feel. I'm guessing u can't get anymore bupe? Also, next time take the bupe sublingually if u want it to last longer, even tho the BA intranasally is about 15% higher that sublingual it will last longer, tho IN should of onset faster. Hope it helps hope ya feel better!

What your saying isnt entirely correct. He would have no problem taking the methadone after taking the 2 mg's of bupe....tehre woudl be no risk of PW's....therefore...mixing bupe with other opiates isnt always a bad thing.

In fact...on low doses of bupe....such as 2 mg's....its still possible to feel effects of other opiates(full agonists)....I personally take suboxone everyday and whenever I take around 3-4 mg's or less I can still get high off of other opiates.
So telling him the methadone wont help probably isnt true...allthough everyones body is different. But id say the chances of the methadone helping out and not "be wasted" is very good.

 

[BoomBoxer]

Yeah theres never no problem taking opiates after Bupe if the affinity of the Bupe is too high the opiate just won't do anything, the problems are when Bupe is taken after the Opiate.

On a seperate note, im glad i managed to get my Bupe dose tapered so low as the Codeine i have just helps slightly and im sure if i was on a high dose of Bupe before they would not have helped at all.

 

[amblerg]

Filter 'Tex like this

I have been preparing my subutex in a fashion that leaves me with a crystal clear solution and wanted to share;

1-Crush desired amount of subutex and add to spoon or whatever

2-Add water, stir

3-Use entire cotton from one side of q-tip, ball it up tightly (clean hands first), and add to mix

4-Using needle-less tuberculin syringe or similar, apply directly to cotton and apply some pressure downward into cotton, while drawing in the solution
(I think this part somehow more effectively uses the cotton as a filter)

5-Flick out the bubbles, and you know what to do

Every time, I get a crystal clear solution that could be mistaken for water. Whereas if I drew back the solution regularly, inserting needle into cotton, a cloudy solution is obtained.
This seems to be the best bet, inferior only to micron/wheel filters IMHO.

Has anyone used needle-less syringes in this manner or similar?

Be Safe!

 

[jamesBrown]

I have been preparing my subutex in a fashion that leaves me with a crystal clear solution and wanted to share;

1-Crush desired amount of subutex and add to spoon or whatever

2-Add water, stir

3-Use entire cotton from one side of q-tip, ball it up tightly (clean hands first), and add to mix

4-Using needle-less tuberculin syringe or similar, apply directly to cotton and apply some pressure downward into cotton, while drawing in the solution
(I think this part somehow more effectively uses the cotton as a filter)

5-Flick out the bubbles, and you know what to do

Every time, I get a crystal clear solution that could be mistaken for water. Whereas if I drew back the solution regularly, inserting needle into cotton, a cloudy solution is obtained.
This seems to be the best bet, inferior only to micron/wheel filters IMHO.

Has anyone used needle-less syringes in this manner or similar?

Be Safe!

I think the fact your getting a "crystal clear" solution is because you used a big piece of cotton squeezed tightly...it has nothing to do with the "need-less syringe"....if you did the exact same process with a normal syringe, im sure you would get the same results.....just use a big cotton, tightly packed, like you said. Maybe your having trouble keeping the whole cotton ball "packed tight" with just a tiny needle tip syringe, and using a bigger tip is helping you squeeze the cotton tighter, making it a more effective filter....try keeping the cotton ball tight when using a needle syringe and I think youll have the same results.....because, theres no possible reason why a LARGER gauge tip would have a better filtered solution....unless the large gauge was helping the cotton stay "squished" like I said earlier.

 

[DiRtYjErZ]

What your saying isnt entirely correct. He would have no problem taking the methadone after taking the 2 mg's of bupe....tehre woudl be no risk of PW's....therefore...mixing bupe with other opiates isnt always a bad thing.

In fact...on low doses of bupe....such as 2 mg's....its still possible to feel effects of other opiates(full agonists)....I personally take suboxone everyday and whenever I take around 3-4 mg's or less I can still get high off of other opiates.
So telling him the methadone wont help probably isnt true...allthough everyones body is different. But id say the chances of the methadone helping out and not "be wasted" is very good.

What I posted about precipitated w/d, and then about the methadone wasn't meant to mean you'd get w/d from the 'done after sub. I said about the methadone after sub was that it would b a waste because bupes higher affinity. Sry If it is easily misread