• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

Status
Not open for further replies.
ok so.. first post.
i'm a heroin addict, been using basically for eight ish years, three of which i was on methadone. went back to dope because of the severe w/d..
got prescribed suboxone that lovely little piece of orange disgusting tastiness that i remember so well. thing was, as much as it has helped me in the past to get through detox, it didn't seem to be doing much for me the last few days.
i thought i did everything right? i waited til i was in horrible withdrawals before taking the pills, or should i say my doctor waited until i was in horrible withdrawals to give them to me..
days one and two i felt slight withdrawal symptoms: restless legs and body, nerves, hot and cold, body aches. i even took some k pins just to sleep and i still had super restlessness.
so thats when i started looking around to see about this whole IV suboxone myth about the narcan, because i needed something that sucking the little basards couldn't give.
skip ahead, i shot it last night for the first time (2 mg) and i had about 15 minutes of w/d symptoms, followed by feeling normal. not bad, not good.
i just shot again after reading the less is more rhetoric and did maybe .5 mg. this time i felt nothing at first but after about 5-10 minutes i been feeling quasi high.
so i figure this is because i still have a high tolerance yeah? how long will it take for me to start getting some good feelings out of suboxone? i had about a 3/4 gram a day habit the last many months and also have just gotten off methadone a few months ago. lots of drugs..
sorry i wrote a novel and i'm glad to meet all of you, virtually!

You found out yourself 2mg has unpleasant effects. It's not withdrawal you are experiencing, it's just buprenorphine taking on antagonist effects because of the high dose you took.

As you found out with 0.5mg, the effects are overall more pleasant. :)

If you want to continue injecting Suboxone, please read about micron filtering.

Question: I am getting down to dosages below 1mg in my suboxone taper. If I don't snort or inject it, what is the optimal way of taking these minute amounts? Still sublingual? They would seem to dissolve instantly and get swallowed? Sorry if this has been answered before.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=404947
 
Hey guys just wanted to let you know after 2 1/2 years of taking suboxone sublingually i have switched to nasal and wow its a huge difference! not only do i just use one 8mg pill a day now instead of 32 mg its alot easier on my life since i cant talk 2 hours out of the day. and I get that nice warm fuzzy feeling that i got from the exact beggining, even tho i still got it a little sublingual its a huge anagelsia and euphoria difference when used nasally i would reccomend this to everyone who uses suboxone. I would like to try IV but its not my style and id worry about fucking up the filtering and going to the hospital and then losing my script even though i have about a years worth because of switching to nasal. and since the nasal membranes absorb the subs better its just a far better way to use it. sometimes i plug my nose after snorting so the drip dosent go down, not that you have to but i feel it cant hurt since it probably gives it more time to absorb.

sometimes i just wish only the drugs that grow out of the ground would be legal for recreational use. poppy plants, marijuana, peyote cactuse, magic mushrooms, etc... ofcourse not alchohal because its not natural, so many other plants that are meant to grow on this earth are stigmatized for no apparent reason. if opium was legal for recreational use you probably wouldnt be snorting heroin or IVing oxys. I would be lying on my side with a beutifal opium pipe vaporizing with a legit opium lamp and feeling great. its a sad world we live in when we destroy plants that were created by our earth. except poison ivy which the earth made because it likes to laugh at us sometimes
 
Last edited:
railed like a lil over 1/2 of a generic subutex today wasn't bad didn't hurt doesn't taste the greatest but yea... sub is orangey tasting seems like u get more powder with a brand name suboxone these 8mg roxane subutex's are pretty nice
 
no it dosent hurt really. when i was naive to snorting suboxone I snorted a whole 8 mg pill and that hurt like shit, eyes watered, nose stung, and i barley got high. it was dumb since it really dosent feel as great as just doing .5-1.5 mg each. I usually snort 8 mg throughout the day with no problems also i squirt saline solution before and after so that probably helps for absorbtion and cleansing. learned that from another thread. the only reason i wouldnt switch to subutex for nasal ingestion is because nalaxone in amounts of .001mg in the body is suppose to supress addiction and tolerance
 
Last edited:
here it is
Im glad I take suboxone with nalaxone beause even though the nalaxone isnt active I have heard that Nalaxone reduces tolerance see here.

An interesting approach is the combination of opiates with the opiate antagonists naloxone or naltrexone in miniscule amounts. The combination of less than 0.001% of what would be a normal dose of the antagonist with an opiate allows a far greater response ("at least 50%") to the opiate which in turn permits a much lower effective dose to be used. It is also said to prevent respiratory depression, tolerance and addiction. This approach has apparently been patented (Crain & Shen 1996) and is being commercially developed by Pain Therapeutics. [R.A.H. 2000; Crain & Shen 2000


found this on erowid, now i imagine us people that take suboxone probably get .001% lol maybe a little more maybe a little less, and its fascinating to think that nalaxone which makes you go into withdrawals if used in miniscule amounts can help with tolerance and addiction thats one of my reasons for staying on suboxone lol.
Lol so people on subutex actually get less high on their medication because theirs no nalaxone HAH! hope you see the irony in that

heres the link if you wanna read more about it
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/opia...es_info3.shtml
 
Paulination - It depends on how much buprenorphine you use. If you are like me, and are using in the microgram per shot range, it doesn't matter one way or the other.

If you use medium/larger doses, naloxone might have some benefit.

Many users note that the subjective effects are typically the same.
 
In reference to the complaints about sub docs, I have to say mine is an exeption.He doesnt drug test, knows I smoke weed and doesnt care, and lets me decide what my dose, taper/maintence schedule will be, and seems to know about the drug, tho he did believe the myth about the naloxone making it immpossible to shoot up suboxone. I am on the generic subutex, not suboxe tho so it doesnt really matter. I think the difference is this guy is a regular doctor at the local clinic, not a sub specialist, tho he has told me that the number of people comming to him for sub has gone way up in the last two years since I started with him. i was actually the first person to ask him for subs so he always talks to me about what is going on with the sub market vs the oxy, etc market. Another great thing is that since it is a public health clinic its on a sliding scale, so i only pay $35 per visit, tho i do have to pay full price at the pharmacy since i have no insurance.
So just to put it out there are knowlageable, cool sub docs out there.
 
How long after your last dose of 'other' drug (in my case hydromorpohone) and starting the sub can one inject the sub without the naloxone being an issue? I know that it doesn't do anything w/the bup. Have been doing well so far & would hate to get sick at this point ... TIA
 
Hey guys just wanted to let you know after 2 1/2 years of taking suboxone sublingually i have switched to nasal and wow its a huge difference! not only do i just use one 8mg pill a day now instead of 32 mg its alot easier on my life since i cant talk 2 hours out of the day. and I get that nice warm fuzzy feeling that i got from the exact beggining, even tho i still got it a little sublingual its a huge anagelsia and euphoria difference when used nasally i would reccomend this to everyone who uses suboxone. I would like to try IV but its not my style and id worry about fucking up the filtering and going to the hospital and then losing my script even though i have about a years worth because of switching to nasal. and since the nasal membranes absorb the subs better its just a far better way to use it. sometimes i plug my nose after snorting so the drip dosent go down, not that you have to but i feel it cant hurt since it probably gives it more time to absorb.

sometimes i just wish only the drugs that grow out of the ground would be legal for recreational use. poppy plants, marijuana, peyote cactuse, magic mushrooms, etc... ofcourse not alchohal because its not natural, so many other plants that are meant to grow on this earth are stigmatized for no apparent reason. if opium was legal for recreational use you probably wouldnt be snorting heroin or IVing oxys. I would be lying on my side with a beutifal opium pipe vaporizing with a legit opium lamp and feeling great. its a sad world we live in when we destroy plants that were created by our earth. except poison ivy which the earth made because it likes to laugh at us sometimes

Alcohol actually does grow out of the ground in the form of corn, grain, etc...and is natural.
 
Oh yes- and how are you measuring out the dose? I can split my tabs into quarters, but then what? I see that the 2 & the 8s are both the same color & shape, so how does one know what strength? I suspect you're started on a lower dose first.

I wasn't taking alot of dilaudid daily -had weaned back to 8-12mg/day IV. I know it's not a lot, but when I tried to just stop taking them I had serious w/d - have been on the hydromor. for several months w/highest dose being 32mg/day IV.

So how do I come up with 0.5mg for injection? Thanks again!
 
2) Use them to taper even lower, this is just best from what I know to be true for myself.

First off, I apologize to everyone about the giganto-font earlier. CH, I should have been more specific. We are talking about a vast reserve of bupe. Like into the triple digits. I don't just want to toss them because they're so fucking expensive, and I don't know any junkies that could benefit from them (or any junkies at all for that matter) but i'm afraid if i keep them around I might start using them again once i'm clean and my tolerance is zero.
 
Paulination - It depends on how much buprenorphine you use. If you are like me, and are using in the microgram per shot range, it doesn't matter one way or the other.

If you use medium/larger doses, naloxone might have some benefit.

Many users note that the subjective effects are typically the same.


Well actually from the articles ive read and ill post some of them I found here, ugh i just lost everything i typed and now have to type it all over again. your right most people would need medium to large doses of suboxone(if thats what you mean) to get the miniscule amount of nalaxone to even work because of the first pass metabolism destroys it anyway.
I would think for you since you use about .6mg divided into 3 shots throughout the day(im probably wrong on this) and you microfilter the solution, you probably will get the amount of .0001 since you bypass the first pass metabolism. Since I have been using suboxone for 3 years now I found for my first 6 months I never had a drop in euphoria or in analgesia and since I found the high better than any other opiate I was addicted to I was quite surprised by this, since I dosed everyday.
By the end of the first year i still had about 60% of my euphoria, I never really dropped much below that after maybe down to about 40% in the last few months. anyway about 5 months ago I was just looking into the nalaxone and found about 10-15 articles on nalaxone when used in tiny amounts was able to prevent tolerance and addiction when dosed with basically any type of opiod.I laughed when I saw that since suboxone has been my fav opiod to date, I was addicted to about 40-70mg vicodin per day I got those cool little yellow ones with only the 375 acetminophen per 10mg pill :), I was doing that for about 4 years, i would switch in some oxy's, heroin, codiene, morphine, and pure opium every now and then to switch it up but my fav was Vicodin gave me less of a Nod I guess, I never really nodded out, since it was a great social tool for me, no anxiety and just relaxing. But After I got clean and sober, and was put on suboxone it has been a far greater medication in the anti-anxiety, depression, and pretty much everything else. I think this may have to do with the Nalaxone in helping amplify the pill by about 50% so if I take 8 mg its really a 12mg to me, and with the addiction and tolerance but I really can tell you.
I still dont know if Nalaxone really does this because these are just studies and since theyre studies please dont try adding nalaxone to your opiate of choice unless its already in their like suboxone. I personally believe that the Nalaxone prevention in tolerance and addiction is true but thats just my belief so dont do it just cause I think it works. more studies need to be done and it could do the exact opposite for all I know.

Anyway heres 3 links its about 2 am and im really tired, ill post some more links in the follwin g days. good night fellow subs :P

1.http://www.paintrials.com/publications/lb2005.pdf
This one talks about how it helps prevent tolerance in most opiods when used in miniscule amounts.
2.http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/305/3/812.full.pdf

Lol this second one has a little info on nalaxone and the prevention of tolerance but it deals mostly with how THC prevents Opiate addiction and tolerance I just thought it was interesting.

3.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC40647/pdf/pnas01501-0106.pdf

I have alot other articles but again im tired :). anyway this is a gov study, a little techinical if you read it twice like i did youll understand. I like how they say that nalaxone will help with morphine AND other opiates because they basically did studies on how nalaxone increases the potency of morphine and decreases addiction. I agree with this since morphine is a full agonist mainly at the U-opiod receptor and suboxone is a partial agonist at the U-receptor and delta and kappa receptors nalaxone will basically have the same affect in my opinion but i dont know for sure. anyway ill post more articles tommorow good night yall

Oh i forgot to say that I would love your opinions on if you believe that nalaxone may have some value in the addiction and tolerance and euphoria department or if its just a pill that makes you puke when you drink your girlfriends brothers codiene cough syrup
 
Last edited:
Hello, How is everyone doing? I have a problem. I've been on suboxone for a few months now at about 4-8mg/day. I did some heroin this weekend 24hrs after my last sub dose. I didnt feel anything. I told my dealer i thought the stuff was bs. After i was done with those bags, the next day i took 2mg in the morning and 2mg at night. These are broken off of an 8mg pill by the way. So my last dose was monday night. Tuesday night i decided to go get more, thinking the last bags were just bogus. I got ten bags and basically, I did the last of it today which would have been about 72 hrs after my last sub dose and i STILL didn't feel anything! Did I really not give myself enough time?? Ive done this before and felt it almost completely after 24 hrs. Do you guys think I didnt leave enough time or can i assume ive been screwed over by my dealer? I was getting into the groove of subs and feeling good but i still want to be able to get high on occasion. Right now, I'm feeling like i'm immune to heroin!
 
How long after your last dose of 'other' drug (in my case hydromorpohone) and starting the sub can one inject the sub without the naloxone being an issue? I know that it doesn't do anything w/the bup. Have been doing well so far & would hate to get sick at this point ... TIA

I only used hydromorphone once, I only needed a few hours (4 to 6 hours) at the most. It might have been less.

It depends on when you are in withdrawal, etc.

And. the naloxone does nothing; buprenorphine would out-compete hydromorphone (and naloxone) for the mu-opioid receptor.

Oh yes- and how are you measuring out the dose? I can split my tabs into quarters, but then what? I see that the 2 & the 8s are both the same color & shape, so how does one know what strength? I suspect you're started on a lower dose first.

I wasn't taking alot of dilaudid daily -had weaned back to 8-12mg/day IV. I know it's not a lot, but when I tried to just stop taking them I had serious w/d - have been on the hydromor. for several months w/highest dose being 32mg/day IV.

So how do I come up with 0.5mg for injection? Thanks again!

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=481622

First off, I apologize to everyone about the giganto-font earlier. CH, I should have been more specific. We are talking about a vast reserve of bupe. Like into the triple digits. I don't just want to toss them because they're so fucking expensive, and I don't know any junkies that could benefit from them (or any junkies at all for that matter) but i'm afraid if i keep them around I might start using them again once i'm clean and my tolerance is zero.

If you have that kind of a stash, then just maintain on a small dose. Is that possible for you?
 
Last edited:
I have two questions for you guys:

1) I'm in the process of tapering right now and I asked my doc how he goes about doing it and he said after taper down to 1mg he'll put me on something similar to suboxone, but is less controlled and therefore I can be prescribed more than one month at a time. I didn't ask what it was and have no idea what it could be. Any ideas?

2) I've struggled with depression and anxiety pretty much my whole life and as a result have tried many anti-anxiety meds but none of them really worked or even made things worse. When I started doing OC I noticed a huge mood lift even after the high was gone. I just attributed this to the high making me feel better, as it does everyone. When I started on suboxone I noticed the depression has been much better, but now that I'm down to 1mg it's started coming back. I don't want to be on suboxone the rest of my life or have to get high just to feel normal, so does anyone know of some sort of opiate-like alternative that could be used in the long run to treat the depression? I talked to my doc about this (not my sub doc, a different one) and he suggested effexor because he said it works on similar receptors but i think this is bullshit because it didn't help and started effecting my liver. Just not sure what to do here.

Sorry for the long winded post just wanted to try and include enough info. Thanks for your time and any input.
 
That's retarded, Effexor is an SNRI. Nowhere close to buprenorphine's effects. It has nothing to do with buprenorphine nor the same receptors.

Your doctor was just lying to you. Never underestimate the fact that (some) doctors are known liars in many cases/occasions.

Just stay on buprenorphine if it works for you. You can keep tapering down really slowly, at your own pace, if you want to.
 
Yea yer doctor's bullshitting you :| I hate when they do that...

I would suggest, if you definitely want to be off Buprenorphine, that you should try out Tramadol. It's a Mu-Agonst, Serotonin releaser and a Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
This should be good for both your Depression and Anxiety :)
Infact I wouldn't be surprised if this is what your addiction specialist has in mind for after you come off the Buprenorphine.
 
I have two questions for you guys:

1) I'm in the process of tapering right now and I asked my doc how he goes about doing it and he said after taper down to 1mg he'll put me on something similar to suboxone, but is less controlled and therefore I can be prescribed more than one month at a time. I didn't ask what it was and have no idea what it could be. Any ideas?

2) I've struggled with depression and anxiety pretty much my whole life and as a result have tried many anti-anxiety meds but none of them really worked or even made things worse. When I started doing OC I noticed a huge mood lift even after the high was gone. I just attributed this to the high making me feel better, as it does everyone. When I started on suboxone I noticed the depression has been much better, but now that I'm down to 1mg it's started coming back. I don't want to be on suboxone the rest of my life or have to get high just to feel normal, so does anyone know of some sort of opiate-like alternative that could be used in the long run to treat the depression? I talked to my doc about this (not my sub doc, a different one) and he suggested effexor because he said it works on similar receptors but i think this is bullshit because it didn't help and started effecting my liver. Just not sure what to do here.

Sorry for the long winded post just wanted to try and include enough info. Thanks for your time and any input.

All I can say is that suboxone helps make your life better, what exactly is the problem with staying on it your entire life. It seems to be a pretty safe drug to take long term, so with that out of the equation, there is really no valid reason not to take it. We live in such a brainwashed biased society that even when people recieve medication that really helps them, they feel somehow deficient and immoral for using medication. Stay on the Subs. I am having to look for another sub doctor because mine keeps wanting me to taper off and I told him I have zero interest in ever tapering off, I will taper down, but I have struggled with addiction for 15 years, based largely on the fact that opiates were the only substance to provide any relief to my constant anxiety and depression. Suboxone has stabilized my life and it has never been better. Yes, I cheat every now and then, like every couple months, prior to suboxone if I cheated once, I would be on a 3 month bender, and dead broke with a fucked up life at the end. now if I cheat, i take a couple OC's on Friday and Saturday, take my Sub's sunday, and honestly there is zero harm done. I have no idea why there is a stigma attached to taking something that makes you a better person, I don't care if I am too weak to do it on my own, I tried will power and I was sober for 5 years, and it was the worst 5 years of my life, worse then when I was using, because at least when I used I wsa occassionally happy, while sober, I suffered under a constant strain of pressing anxiety and crippling depression. I tried everything, only opiates worked, and subs work excellent as I have zero desire to abuse them, it pretty much curbs my desire to abuse other opiates, and god bless I am happy.
 
Lando I would have to agree with genghis theirs no reason for anyone to say that they need to get off suboxone just because it makes them high or its bad for you. thats like saying you wont take multivitamins because it gives you a mood lift. Im on suboxone and I know im going to be on it the rest of my life. Not because I need to but because I want to. suboxone has helped my depression,anxiety,mood and alot of other factors. also their have been studies for suboxone as a anti depressant and anti anxiety but because it makes you feel good I guess that its bad for you then lol. the truth is that SSRIs really have no help in depression. If you have the time read this article on antidepresants and how selective dopamine reuptake inhibitors were the pinnacle of anti depressant potentional and because they caused a mild high they were banned. I mean its not like you can get addicted to SSRI's right? lol. anyway just because it gets you high dosent mean its wrong, infact its all but wrong, its right

amneptine is one of these dopamine reuptake inhibitors. it was great for helping depression but because of a mild happy feeling it was banned because of abuse potential. oh and the article calls it dopamine reuptake blockers and dopamine reuptake inhibitors is the same term used for these medications, inhibitors just mean blocking in lamens terms if you didnt know that.

I also agree with monstanoodle that tramadol could be effective in your anxiety and depression personally I think tramadol does have some clinical potentional lol and its barley addictive but it does trigger opiate receptors so I guess it must be wrong to take it. -_-. try mixing tramadol with suboxone and I swear youll feel more happy than you are with just one of them :P atleast it was for me.

I hope you find what your looking for Lando and if its not suboxone because you feel theirs some stigma associated with it or that its addicting then dont do it. Just remember every single antidepressant, anti anxiety, mood lifter drug wether it be lexapro, zoloft, prozac, buspirone, etc... is addicting it will get into your body and if you stop taking it you will go into withdrawals. So next time if the doctor's say suboxone is addicting tell them to shove a lexapro pill up their ass everyday for a month and then completley stop taking it. fucking doctors and DEA the most hypocritical assholes since the beggining of time
Hell when I stopped taking my lexapro a while ago because I forgot to bring my prescription, I had the most unbeliavable withdrawals in my life. Pucking, muscle pain, headache, anxiety, depression. hell with those kind of withdrawal effects they might aswell of put me on heroin for depression because the withdrawals were a little bit worse than opiate withdrawals thank god i got off that shit I feel better now than when i was on that shit.
this article came from www.opiods.com
"Even where it is acknowledged that many opioid users have a pre-existing anxiety or depressive disorder in urgent need of relief, those so afflicted are fobbed off with often third-rate psychotropics instead. For a start, the monoamine hypothesis of depression - and the new classes of drug it has spawned (SSRIs, NARIs, SNRIs, NaSSAs, RIMAs etc to complement the dirty old tricyclics and irreversible unselective MAOIs) - is radically incomplete. A minority of people, admittedly, find such drugs effective. Often taking a licensed antidepressant is better than nothing at all - perhaps in part because of their positive effects on endogenous opioid peptide release. Yet even in the context of controlled clinical trials with relatively high dosage-regimens and artificially good rates of patient-compliance, it's rare for response-rates to reach more than 70%. Rates of full remission of depressive symptoms are far lower, perhaps 25-30%. Out "in the field", the picture is worse still. Adverse side-effects are common. Response may take weeks. Withdrawal reactions can be unpleasant.

A recognition of the crucial role of dopamine, and selective dopamine reuptake blockers, in sub-types of depressive mood-disorders might push response and remission rates higher. The mesolimbic dopamine system is critical to vitality, motivation, libido and a capacity to anticipate reward. Dopaminergics can also act as analgesics. They can also reverse the apathetic sedation induced by some antidepressants and opioid agonists. Yet the FDA stymies the licensing of effective dopamine reuptake-blocking mood-brighteners at home; and applies pressure to deny access to them abroad. This is because of worries about their (sometimes) faster efficacy - and mild psychostimulant effect - raise the spectre of "abuse-potential"; and proscription, persecution and indiction are favoured over consumer education. For Big Brother knows best."

this article came from http://www.opioids.com/


Oh and MSPCHI The 2 times I did stay off my Suboxone for 2 days and then dosed with heroin nothing came of it barley noticeale effects, dont forget that the half life of suboxone is about 48 hours so the drug will probably stay in your system for about 3-4 days depending on dose. For some people they can do it 4 hours after their suboxone dose and others its 12 days but the normal person like me is 3-5 days I would recommend 4 days because even on the 4th day you will still have a little suboxone in your system If it was me I would wait 6-7 days but if your impatient like I am sometimes then on the 3rd day should be ok but you will probably only get half or a 3rd of whatever heroin dose you take on the 3rd day but thats me and it sounds like it didnt work for you on the 2nd day off so try 3 days but my best bet for you is the 4th day, you might get into withdrawals at that point tho im not sure. Ive never really taken another opiate on suboxone except once or twice
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top