Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Znegative]

so I went to my sub doctor yesterday, and she told me something that I found kind of interesting. I'm not sure if it really proves anything, or if this is really even the right thread to post it in, but i think people might be interested.

So my doctor said that she attended a meeting with other psychopharmacologists in New Orleans. I forget what it was called, but it was a very "professional" kind of thing. Probably some of the more informed members on bluelight would know about it. Supposedly there was a study done that was run comparing peoples success after 3 month of tapering with suboxone and with methadone. The results showed that only 7% of patients that slowly tapered over a 3 month period on suboxone ended up succeeding in not using any other opiates, where as methadone yielded a surprising (at least to me) 80% success rate. These results have supposedly not been published yet, but will be soon.

I know there has been a lot of debate on bluelight over which treatment is more effective, which is why I thought people might get a kick out of this. IMO, it's pretty surprising. It's still not an end all question though, because they have no idea about the success rate of people getting off after a year treatment, etc, but I was surprised, mostly because IME methadone has worse withdrawls, which I would assume to lead more people into seeking their drug of choice. However, it could be that within 3 months, methadone would not have the chance to build up enough in the system to produce the withdrawls that a year of maintenance would produce, hence leading to it's high success rate in this study.

I'm sorry I cannot supply more information on this, as it was told to me rather quickly in a conversation with my doctor. These findings should be coming out to the public soon according to her, and it may already be available. I just found it odd, and my doctor seemed very concerned/disturbed by it, in fact, I felt like she was kind of hinting for me to get back on MMT!

 

[ashla]

HdoubleODeezy thanks for your post i have been snorting for a long time and really want to go back to sublingual especially now since i am weaning of it but because i have limited supply and i have my dad give it to me daily i am afraid i will be wasting it with the lower roa but i think i will try it next week i just cut yesterday so i want to wait but it is good to see people doing that.

groovy are you taking nightime pills with tylenol or by themselves ? i used to use tylenol pm and then i learned that you can buy generic benadryl instead it is cheaper and better for liver. I cannot believe how i used them for so long and wished i knew the difference earlier.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

HdoubleODeezy thanks for your post i have been snorting for a long time and really want to go back to sublingual especially now since i am weaning of it but because i have limited supply and i have my dad give it to me daily i am afraid i will be wasting it with the lower roa but i think i will try it next week i just cut yesterday so i want to wait but it is good to see people doing that.

groovy are you taking nightime pills with tylenol or by themselves ? i used to use tylenol pm and then i learned that you can buy generic benadryl instead it is cheaper and better for liver. I cannot believe how i used them for so long and wished i knew the difference earlier.

for nighttime pills i take 30mg zyprexa, 50mg vistaril, .2mg clondine, 2mg clonazepam, 50mg atenolol, and sometimes tramadol ad haloperidol. lol same in the morning minus the zyprexa and haloperidol. and suboxone and zanaflex as i feel necessary.

 

[OpanaD83]

I snort around 15-25 mgs Opana a Day. And im getting sick of this shit, Im thinking about quiting, but i would like some personal thoughts on the matter. When you take suboxone or Subutex does it really make you not want to use or fill your craving need? Do you feel high off it? Im really tempted to just bust down and my next DR.APT and tell him im addicted and want to get on Suboxone/Subutex.

 

[Paulination]

I just dont know how you snort that stuff daily, must have the golden nose of the gods. lol god i remember snorting 2 8 mg's suboxone once JESUS. red eyes, painful pain all in the nose, and it smelled and felt like someone shoved powdered orange drank in my nose. But it does feel awsome. thats good your trying to get off it ashla. theres so many ways you can potentiate suboxone just by going to a pharmacy, hell i just went their and got grapefruit and cimetidine. I would think to that by also using the ethanol trick you would probably get more out of it sublingual that is if you have atleast 40% alchohal. im excited im about to pour the ethanol sub in my mouth and its my first time with cimetidine wish me luck. But if you dont have any pain when snorting it and its ur fav...go for it

 

[troublesome]

I am new to bl but can tell from reading this page i am in the right place. I have been told how ridiculous i am 4 snorting my subs. I am interested in chating on this subject and getting to know this site!

 

[GROOVY1975]

Ashla, thank you, I actually take some generic PM I found lying around but I will definitely look into your suggestion!

 

[GROOVY1975]

Welcome troublesome, this is by far the BEST resource you will find. What exactly are you looking for, there are numerous posts on 'snorting SUBS' and would be happy to help out.

 

[troublesome]

thankx im not sure exactly i guess just expirience. I have been on h a while and since the last switch 2 subs i snort them i actually feel an affect that way but hav been told im wasting them. I just dread the day when i dnt hav a sub 2 snort maybe i am still gripd mentally by the real thing. Also ive noticed some posts on good things to mix with subs 4 a betr affect

 

[GROOVY1975]

I can tell you unless your not doing it right you are definitely NOT wasting them by snorting them. There are many threads if you need help finding them, but what I can gather is the BA is higher by snorting than under the dreaded tongue which in turns means more absorption into the blood stream..

 

[Znegative]

I am new to bl but can tell from reading this page i am in the right place. I have been told how ridiculous i am 4 snorting my subs. I am interested in chating on this subject and getting to know this site!

I always thought snorting subs was quite common practice. It's shooting subs that seems to be more taboo.

 

[troublesome]

i thought so to i have shot them but am trying to stay away from the spike for now. I only have a small amount to get by on and snorting seems to be most effective.Always open to suggestion

 

[GROOVY1975]

Troublesome, plugging is the best way (other than IV'ing - which I have never done, but from what I have read on numerous threads many different times). This increases the BA even more so than snorting.

 

[troublesome]

at the risk of sounding green if plugging is wat i believe it 2 b i am

 

[GROOVY1975]

YUP! UP the butt!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The one thing I love about suboxone is I can still feel it even after 12 hours. even though I take 3 8mg's a day. I just wanted to show you guys my thread I dont know if you guys know about ketoconazole potenation of suboxone but theirs alot of evidence to back this up.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=506341

this is my thread and id really love some input on the danger issues of this. but the only thing ive found out so far is overdose oh and Im going to put alot more sources and info today to
Oh and I will editing my thread daily just to add more sources and credability

I haven't read your thread yet but it does sound interesting. I'll check it out when I have some time to.

C.H., I plan to be on SUBOXONE for a while, I need to break my mental habits of that 'need for a pill'.

Its funny, I have been taking PM nighttime pills to sleep and 'thought' it made me feel more potent, it contains 'diphenhydramine hcl' and just figured it was a fluke or something.

As always, thank you for your advice!

No problem!

The way I like to think of it is that every step in the right direction is a reason to feel better about the whole situation. I personally knew someone who was more "psychologically addicted" to drugs (poly-drug abuse) in general than I was; they found buprenorphine more addictive than I did (they would shoot many times more than I would and then start begging me to repeat the exp. within the hour! - they never had an opiate tolerance, and only tried heroin once), so whenever I thought about the mistakes I made in life, or all the money I wasted chasing a high on heroin, I remember that I never really had it that bad at all. When it came down to it, when this guy would have his benzo prescription, he would eat 20mg or more of lorazepam in a day (twenty one milligram pills) or more (probably more). He would also give away his xanax bars, and then within the very next time he saw you, would be begging for them back. He was in 3 to 5 serious car accidents due to his fault.

That's just his struggles with drug addiction too, I'm going to spare you his whole life details because I can summarize it well for you here: it could have always gotten worse, so look forward to a better tomorrow/today. %)

Thinking positively and having a positive attitude about recovery from drug use/addiction can have a wonderful effect on your success.

Heroin/opiate addiction can become a very difficult addiction to overcome, mostly due to the fact that people are conditioned to do one thing when they eventually begin feeling a certain way (which could include a multitude of negative emotions/affect - "sad", "bad", "down", "depressed", "angry", etc...) - and when you give up the one thing you're programmed (in a sense) to do, it can be very troubling/challenging. However that's why I think Suboxone is a life saver for many people, because it reduces how bad you feel (in a sense) and can help you maintain a positive outlook on your life/situation, and also isn't as "moreish" as heroin is.

For most people, buprenorphine is a drug that makes you feel "satisfied" in a sense, so that you don't feel like you need to use drugs (whether those drugs are opiates, or not - buprenorphine can help other drug addiction/habituations too for some people). Other people might find the exact opposite (like the person I was describing earlier who found buprenorphine way more addictive than I ever have), but all in all, since buprenorphine is a partial agonist, it's not, in some people's mind, in the same class of "euphoric opiates" like heroin, oxycodone, hydromorphone, etc. In other people's minds, buprenorphine is a "euphoric opiate" but even for people like me who do, I would say that the euphoria is "somewhat limited" - it's not like IV heroin, if it was, I wouldn't be able to be responsible with it.

I theorize that some people may like buprenorphine more than heroin/other popular opiates, because of certain psychological disorders (or just chemical imbalances, not necessarily disorders) - may find the effects of buprenorphine preferable due to the other pharmacological effects of buprenorphine and nor-buprenorphine.

NSFW:

Buprenorphine has partial agonist actions at the mu opioid receptor, partial or full agonist activity at the ORL1/nociceptin receptor, and competitive antagonist actions at the kappa and delta opioid receptors.

Norbuprenorphine is the primary active metabolite of buprenorphine. Norbuprenorphine acts as a μ-opioid, δ-opioid, and nociceptin receptor full agonist,[1][2] as well as a κ-opioid receptor partial agonist.[2]

I think this would explain a lot about people's preferences for a smaller dose (not everyone likes smaller doses but a lot of people do).

so I went to my sub doctor yesterday, and she told me something that I found kind of interesting. I'm not sure if it really proves anything, or if this is really even the right thread to post it in, but i think people might be interested.

So my doctor said that she attended a meeting with other psychopharmacologists in New Orleans. I forget what it was called, but it was a very "professional" kind of thing. Probably some of the more informed members on bluelight would know about it. Supposedly there was a study done that was run comparing peoples success after 3 month of tapering with suboxone and with methadone. The results showed that only 7% of patients that slowly tapered over a 3 month period on suboxone ended up succeeding in not using any other opiates, where as methadone yielded a surprising (at least to me) 80% success rate. These results have supposedly not been published yet, but will be soon.

I know there has been a lot of debate on bluelight over which treatment is more effective, which is why I thought people might get a kick out of this. IMO, it's pretty surprising. It's still not an end all question though, because they have no idea about the success rate of people getting off after a year treatment, etc, but I was surprised, mostly because IME methadone has worse withdrawls, which I would assume to lead more people into seeking their drug of choice. However, it could be that within 3 months, methadone would not have the chance to build up enough in the system to produce the withdrawls that a year of maintenance would produce, hence leading to it's high success rate in this study.

I'm sorry I cannot supply more information on this, as it was told to me rather quickly in a conversation with my doctor. These findings should be coming out to the public soon according to her, and it may already be available. I just found it odd, and my doctor seemed very concerned/disturbed by it, in fact, I felt like she was kind of hinting for me to get back on MMT!

3 months is nothing. I would relapse no matter what you gave me for 3 months.

Buprenorphine works for me, because I haven't been addicted to opiates for over 19 and a half months now. I was not pressuring myself to get over opiates in a 3 month time span, I don't think I would have gotten over it in just 3 months.

Additionally, methadone wouldn't have the euphoria I'm looking for (my friend tried methadone and they didn't like it whatsoever, and they liked IV suboxone, and they are used to IVing dilaudid) - and methadone has NMDA recpetor antagonism; an effect I wouldn't want nor desire on a daily basis.

Methadone would also kill me ADHD wise. I would never have any motivation on it and would probably be agitated all the time (because it suppresses testosterone just as bad, or worse, than heroin does - buprenorphine is not as bad in this sense). All in all I think the choice is up to the user, for some people one works better over the other, but buprenorphine was meant for me.

Thanks for letting me know what's up though, I'll be on the look out for such a study if it comes out. There's a lot of political bashing of MMT in the UK (front page news on BL) so I'm interested to see if it's related (sometimes studies are influenced a certain way to help sway negative public opinion).

I snort around 15-25 mgs Opana a Day. And im getting sick of this shit, Im thinking about quiting, but i would like some personal thoughts on the matter. When you take suboxone or Subutex does it really make you not want to use or fill your craving need? Do you feel high off it? Im really tempted to just bust down and my next DR.APT and tell him im addicted and want to get on Suboxone/Subutex.

You don't have to tell him you're addicted, you could just say you want to assess how your pain can be managed, possibly by more preferable medications (to keep your tolerance low).

Buprenorphine is a very "wide effects" from person to person sort of thing (what one person experiences may be vastly different from the next), but overall, I do think it really does help your cravings a lot (and reduces most withdrawal symptoms by at least 50 to 75 percent).

I personally do get high off of buprenorphine but not everyone does. It doesn't need to make you high though, it's a very "reassuring" sensation, even if you just use it sublingually (which is advised for people with a tolerance), and helps out a lot with withdrawal related anxiety/depression a lot.

Buprenex is available as an analgesic if you are a pain patient - this way you could ask for something which is quicker acting but also not as "tolerance building" as oxymorphone (haven't tried oxymorphone myself).

So yeah, good luck but I wouldn't bring up being "addicted" unless you feel you need to or have to. There's other ways to ask to get on buprenorphine.

I am new to bl but can tell from reading this page i am in the right place. I have been told how ridiculous i am 4 snorting my subs. I am interested in chating on this subject and getting to know this site!

Glad to hear snorting it works for you. I haven't really tried snorting Suboxone before, but I hear that it works pretty well. I don't think you're ridiculous for doing it though, haha. What kind of doses are you using?

thankx im not sure exactly i guess just expirience. I have been on h a while and since the last switch 2 subs i snort them i actually feel an affect that way but hav been told im wasting them. I just dread the day when i dnt hav a sub 2 snort maybe i am still gripd mentally by the real thing. Also ive noticed some posts on good things to mix with subs 4 a betr affect

I don't think it's "wasting" it necessarily. If you feel an effect that way then do what works for you. If you can stay away from H snorting suboxone, then keep on man! Good job on staying away from heroin too.

i thought so to i have shot them but am trying to stay away from the spike for now. I only have a small amount to get by on and snorting seems to be most effective.Always open to suggestion

6/7's method is probably the best way to go.

IVing works for some people (like me) but it's short lived compared to other ROA's, and it's good you're trying to stay away from IVing anyways so I would really advise sublingual, with a tiny bit of high proof liquor with the pill - it'll burn a little but it helps it dissolve/absorb and you get more out of it that way, I always spit out the liquor afterwards because I don't like drinking but I guess it's up to you.

All you need is a tiny amount though, so that way it won't burn too bad.

Snorting it works better for some. Try out 6/7's method if you would like, and see which helps you stretch it out more.

 

[troublesome]

im not sure wat 6/7 method is... anyway i typically dose 4 to 8 mgs, and its wierd cuz sometimes i will be euphoric and energetic and even get that wonderful dreaming while your still awake feeling (when i am going to bed)and other days i get very little feeling at all. it is such a strange drug.lol im always open minded plugging wich in my area is usually refered 2 as suitcasing or boofing is typically reserved for trips to the bing. i appreciate the response truthfully i am adjusting to the social aspect via internet due to a recent move and lifestyle change and am having a little trouble utilizing this site as far as chating and responses go am i doing somthing wrong?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

im not sure wat 6/7 method is...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=404947 - You can read up on it here

anyway i typically dose 4 to 8 mgs, and its wierd cuz sometimes i will be euphoric and energetic and even get that wonderful dreaming while your still awake feeling (when i am going to bed)and other days i get very little feeling at all. it is such a strange drug.lol im always open minded plugging wich in my area is usually refered 2 as suitcasing or boofing is typically reserved for trips to the bing. i appreciate the response truthfully i am adjusting to the social aspect via internet due to a recent move and lifestyle change and am having a little trouble utilizing this site as far as chating and responses go am i doing somthing wrong?

Sometimes I get more or less effect too, that's normal. It's weird indeed.

No you're not doing anything wrong. Just read the links in my signature to be knowledgeable about the rules and have a good time.

 

[troublesome]

i wont hav any problems with the rules its navigating the places that i have postd threads and finding them to check for responses also the adoption process is sorta confusing me

 

[troublesome]

okay ive read 6/7 theory and want to try it any feedback o using listerine only alcohol i got