Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

Well, I thought this too, but it seems that as you taper down really low, you start to feel the high more and more from the subs.

Exactly! It corresponds to tolerance, and I'll explain below.

I I.V doses of .5-.2 mg at a time, and am definately starting to get a better effect. I've been on methadone too, and the effect I get every day from the subs is better than what I got from methadone when I was stabalized. I still wouldn't call it pure euphoria at all, but I'm hoping one day I can get it to a point where its closer to that. I would be interested to know what Captain Heroin experiences when he doses, if he has the time?

Sure I have time! Thanks for asking by the way - I have always wanted to expand on this. I'm going to briefly go over all the ROA's I have used for Suboxone, and my thoughts/tips on it.

Sublingual - I like this route for the long duration of "okayness" and "wellness" that comes from ORT; not feeling high, not feeling withdrawal, but still functional. The effects can be pleasant, but seemed to vary for me almost senselessly (some times the effects will be good - like if I feel a little come-down-ish when I take it, or not as impressive if I'm already on buprenorphine and not feeling like I'm coming down). 6/7's method is really a blessing for the sublingual ROA because it breaks down the Suboxone really quickly, and you can spit out what remains after just a few minutes (like 5 minutes IME). There is a mild burning sensation depending on how much alcohol you use, but it wears off quickly. I don't consume ethanol (I have drank in the past - those days are far in the past) but I don't mind using it to boost the bioavailability.

I probably use the sublingual route only if I am not able to procure a closed off environment. If I'm trapped at an airport - perfect time to take it sublingually. I prefer not to use this ROA, I am more likely to vomit (I have vomited before it was done dissolving - very disappointing since they cost so much $ in the first place), and the taste is always nasty and more bitter than it should be. I also don't get as good effects, and it is very hard to break up a dose for sublingual use (that is smaller than 2mg). Since I can use 2mg sublingually once per day this is no big deal, but I wish it was easier to get two 1mg sublingual doses in (since I have the 8mg pills this is a problem - if I had 2mg pills I would be in a better place). Overall for people with a high tolerance; this is the only ROA I would suggest (only augmenting with 6/7's method). You could insuffulate it but I wouldn't rely on this, nor would I recommend it. I have not tried snorting Suboxone.

IV - The effects are dependent on tolerance, and sensitivity to opiates.

When I first started out, I was taking 2mg per shot. I wasn't getting any euphoric or good effects, other than the "relief" I got from sublingual use, would kick in quicker. At multiple doses per day, I would get edgy/anxious/agitated from the effects of too much buprenorphine.

When I tapered down to 1mg per shot, I got less side effects.

When I tapered down to 0.5mg per shot, is when I started getting good effects, and a rush. I kept tapering down, and the effects I got with 0.5mg only got better as I slowly worked my way down to where I am now; at 0.15mg per shot.

The effects aren't typical of other IV opiates, it is certainly different. It doesn't kick in instantly. After shooting, I remove the needle, put something sterile over the site to prevent blood from staining the skin, and clear out the syringe. Re cap it. After about 1 or 2 minutes from this point is when I feel the onset, and by 5 or 10 minutes, I will have began rushing. It's a body high but not a heavy one though. The rush is pleasant, slightly sedating. I would say that the effects last about 3 to 6 hours overall. After the first 3 hours, the effects start to diminish a bit.

The lower your tolerance is, and the less buprenorphine you take, the better the effects. At such a small amount, more buprenorphine is converted to norbuprenorphine, which renders better effects.

For pain relief, it is pretty instant. It's not full pain relief but takes the edge off nicely. It's a very motivating drug and can be a great anti-depressant/anxiolytic in the sense that it kicks in moderately quick and is rather soothing of an effect.

If I want a more sedating effect, hydroxyzine (4 to 6 mg) is ideal. (I would only micron filter Atarax though, it has some nasty inactives). I think that IV buprenorphine's effects are best highlighted when you're stoned. Benzos are nice if you are trying to go the sedating route, but I think weed is a better augmenting drug for IV buprenorphine. It increases the body high in a way.

I hope this answered questions. Feel free to ask me questions.

 

[JamtasticX]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I find a dose of sub sniffed can last me 3 days w/o any severe withdrawals. I usually do 6mg in a line to feel nice.

I was doing about a g of nice east coast powder a day of heroin, got prescibed to 10mg a day.

Maybe I'm just lucky so far, been on Subs for 3 months

 

[Znegative]

Thanks a lot Captain Heroin. Definately motivates me to keep tapering. Right now I'm still around 1 mg a day, but instead of doing .5 in the morning I'm doing .25 . Today following my morning dose I'm going to keep cutting down each dose by 50 micrograms, which I've noticed really doesn't bother me.

I experience the same thing as you in regards to rush, though not quite as intense sounding. It's weird, I usually feel relief about 1-2 minutes after injection, but after about 10 minutes, I feel the full effects of the sub. I also feel like it's kind of a stimulant in a way. No matter how tired I am in the morning, 5 minutes after my shot, I'm wide awake, and ready to work!

To JamtasticX, it's not that strange what you said. Before I started to I.V my suboxone, it would take about 3 days for the withdrawls to kick in. Now though, within 6-8 hours I start feeling pretty uncomfortable.

 

[JayJohnson]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I find a dose of sub sniffed can last me 3 days w/o any severe withdrawals.

I usually do 6mg in a line to feel nice.

Damn that's a lot of powder, don't you get a lot of drip?? I sniffed sub a number of times, but even at just 1mg I got some drip. Drip with suboxone to me means it isn't going to get absorbed. Then again I was doing small amounts and tapering down almost daily so I wanted to make sure I was getting EVERYTHING in my tiny lines. Whatever works for you though, right?

As far as the `nasty` taste of Sub - compared to pod tea, sub tastes like fine wine.

Day 1 no sub for me.

 

[SubDude]

subdude... how do u feel after u dose your .75mg? as you adjust to lower doses, is the high more pronounced than it was at higher doses?

Don't really feel anything... sometimes I get a bit of energy with it. The high is not pronounced at lower doses for me... in fact I feel essentially no different at .50-1mg as I did at 12 mg. I did a very slow taper though. Took me about 3 mos to get to 1mg and then another 2 mos to get down to .25mg... then I relapsed and went back up to 1mg

I agree with those who say MMT is best if you still want to get high and SMT is best for those who want to be clean.... tapering was a lot easier for me with subs... but I didn't want to taper with methadone. Thats the biggest difference I see between bupe and methadone... more people want to taper with bupe. Why not... we don't get a good opiate high/nod anyway... so we might as well take as little as possible.

 

[SubDude]

If you're trying to chase a high, you're probably wasting your time.

I get that... but I'm going to give the micron iv at .25mg at try. Nothing really to lose. I agree about the cravings/relapses at lower doses... I think it's kinda like a dog licking his nuts... it's natural and he does it because he can.... we use/relapse at low dose because we can. At higher doses we don't get anything.

 

[JamtasticX]

Damn that's a lot of powder, don't you get a lot of drip?? I sniffed sub a number of times, but even at just 1mg I got some drip. Drip with suboxone to me means it isn't going to get absorbed. Then again I was doing small amounts and tapering down almost daily so I wanted to make sure I was getting EVERYTHING in my tiny lines. Whatever works for you though, right?

As far as the `nasty` taste of Sub - compared to pod tea, sub tastes like fine wine.

Day 1 no sub for me.

I find that 6mg and under isn't that bad with powder. Anything 8mg and up is usually a problem. I try to to sniff it to fast and hard, I do it slightly slower and I usually only get a minimal drip. I've always had enough if I needed it, so I don't worry about losing a little. I did 4mg yesterday morning, and still good right now, and am all out, won't get any more till later today, and then don't have any desire for anymore.

I've never considered shooting it, wouldn't know where to get a micron filter.

 

[SubDude]

Jay- Are you quiting? If so what was your last dose amt?

Jam- Check out Captian H Micro thread. Link is on page 18. I found it an amazing piece of work.

 

[JayJohnson]

Yeah I'm quitting. I was on pod tea for 5 months or so, and tapered down on that for weeks. I had suboxone, which I probably didn't need after my taper from pods, but I took it anyways.

My last dose of sub was between .12mg and .18mg (my guess, I was snorting it.) I tapered down the sub also over 10 days.

 

[Znegative]

just wanted to say to subdude, .25 is a real good dose for you to start off with if you're down to taking suboxone at 1 mg any other ROA. .3 mg is about equal to 1 mg sublingually. remember though, that you're probably going to have to dose a few times a day because the duration of action is a lot shorter compared to sublingual. A LOT shorter. It's real awsome though when you get this low though, because such small amounts of bupe will hold you over. I usually wait 3-6 hours between dosages, and if I take my last dosage to early, and am having trouble sleeping, I can litteraly take .05 mg and it'll allow me to sleep. I really only dose as high as I do for effect, though I'm even weening that down, because I've heard the effect get's better as you lower.

I also was wondering. I've been at a steady 1 mg/day for about 3 1/2 weeks now. Before this I was shooting anywhere from 2-6 mg/day for about 2 weeks, and before that, I was sublingually taking 16 mg. Should the half life from those larger dosages be out of my system right now, or do you guys think that I've completely adjusted to this 1 mg/ day schedule? I feel good, but I do get uncomfortable about 4 hours after each dosage, and after about 12 hours I start to actually feel pretty shitty. Do you think over time, If I were just to maintain this dosage schedule, that this amount would hold me better? I feel like I'm still in a slight deficit, but I want to ride it out.

 

[SubDude]

just wanted to say to subdude, .25 is a real good dose for you to start off with if you're down to taking suboxone at 1 mg any other ROA. .3 mg is about equal to 1 mg sublingually. remember though, that you're probably going to have to dose a few times a day because the duration of action is a lot shorter compared to sublingual. A LOT shorter. It's real awsome though when you get this low though, because such small amounts of bupe will hold you over. I usually wait 3-6 hours between dosages, and if I take my last dosage to early, and am having trouble sleeping, I can litteraly take .05 mg and it'll allow me to sleep. I really only dose as high as I do for effect, though I'm even weening that down, because I've heard the effect get's better as you lower.

I also was wondering. I've been at a steady 1 mg/day for about 3 1/2 weeks now. Before this I was shooting anywhere from 2-6 mg/day for about 2 weeks, and before that, I was sublingually taking 16 mg. Should the half life from those larger dosages be out of my system right now, or do you guys think that I've completely adjusted to this 1 mg/ day schedule? I feel good, but I do get uncomfortable about 4 hours after each dosage, and after about 12 hours I start to actually feel pretty shitty. Do you think over time, If I were just to maintain this dosage schedule, that this amount would hold me better? I feel like I'm still in a slight deficit, but I want to ride it out.

The bupe half-life is up to 72 hrs. But less at lower doses as you've found out. The 16mg effects are definitely out of your system [after 2-3wks] I suggest you stabilize at a consistant dose for at least 4-7 days to determine how current dose is working for you.

I normally start to feel light wd's at about 30 hrs and am in bad shape by 36... haven't gone over that long in yrs. During my taper from 12 mg I never felt significant wd's but only dropped about 2mg every 2-3 wks until I got to 1mg.

I don't have the experience to advise how fast wd's will come with IV use... but personally if I have to fix over twice a day... then I'll go back to sublingual.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thanks a lot Captain Heroin. Definately motivates me to keep tapering. Right now I'm still around 1 mg a day, but instead of doing .5 in the morning I'm doing .25 . Today following my morning dose I'm going to keep cutting down each dose by 50 micrograms, which I've noticed really doesn't bother me.

I experience the same thing as you in regards to rush, though not quite as intense sounding. It's weird, I usually feel relief about 1-2 minutes after injection, but after about 10 minutes, I feel the full effects of the sub. I also feel like it's kind of a stimulant in a way. No matter how tired I am in the morning, 5 minutes after my shot, I'm wide awake, and ready to work!

To JamtasticX, it's not that strange what you said. Before I started to I.V my suboxone, it would take about 3 days for the withdrawls to kick in. Now though, within 6-8 hours I start feeling pretty uncomfortable.

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. That's the #1 difference; how stimulating it is. I get stimulating and depressant effects from buprenorphine by itself. Before I got on Suboxone, in between being high on heroin, the come down sucked and I felt unable to mentally function, like a type of of "mental quicksand" where you're almost caught just experiencing a feeling like feeling shitty or wishing you weren't coming down, etc, and you can't think of much else, you can't do much else other than ponder what you're thinking of, that's about it. IV buprenorphine is very stimulating in the sense that I am always relieved of any "head fog" I may be experiencing.

I can often stay up for 2 days at a time with buprenorphine alone, but it's not good for me to do that. I have consistently had to learn when to stop using at night, so it can wear off before I have to go to sleep. Or at least not go to sleep rushing.

I am the same way though, after the shot I am pretty awake and ready to start my day. It's pretty decent for ADHD, since amphetamine isn't an "every day" drug for me. I wouldn't like taking it daily for long periods of time.

You are right though the timeline you stated sums it up well; by 1 or 2 minutes you feel something, by 10 minutes = full effects have at least begun. It can vary a little IME but I think that's the best way to outline it. Using other drugs (like threshold doses of benzos, weed, psychedelics, amphetamines) with buprenorphine can be quite interesting/potent. Buprenorphine is almost "augmented" by the other drugs you may or may not be on, so that it's very unique experience.

I only really recommend that people use drugs that they have a handle over, I.E. I would never suggest someone like myself to start using heroin again. I am very responsible with amphetamines, benzos, weed, and all other drugs. This may not be other people's experiences.

Buprenorphine by itself is a very satisfying drug though I will add. If I can only do buprenorphine or I only want to do buprenorphine, I can. Weed is pretty much essential to kill the horrible nausea I sometimes get but it's better than vomiting daily due to the sublingual use.

I get that... but I'm going to give the micron iv at .25mg at try. Nothing really to lose. I agree about the cravings/relapses at lower doses... I think it's kinda like a dog licking his nuts... it's natural and he does it because he can.... we use/relapse at low dose because we can. At higher doses we don't get anything.

When I was using more buprenorphine, I was less satisfied and less "held" by it (I was more agitated) and since being on a low dose of buprenorphine, I have yet to do heroin again. When I first got on an excessive sublingual dose - I relapsed for a few months before giving it up all together.

But yeah you can always switch back to sublingual use and/or a higher dose, so there's nothing wrong with trying lower doses.

 

[LostWife]

Can subs be abused? I think my husband is taking them (without perscription) so illegally, and i dont know why.. I thought they were made to not be abused?

 

[fm1983]

^ An opiate naive person is able to catch a good buzz of a small dose of suboxone. Mainly it's used for maintenance for addicts, but it is possible to "get high" from them. However, it's not a traditional opiate high, which would lead me to wonder why he would choose subs over oxy or morphine, etc etc.

 

[psood0nym]

^What about buprenorphine alone rather than suboxone for someone with no tolerance, though? I get the impression that's significantly more euphoric. For me, the following five drug's euphoria goes from least to greatest: codeine, hydrocodone, morphine, oxycodone, hydromorphone (insufflatted). Where does insufflated buprenorphine euphoria fall on that line in your opinion?

 

[Pegasus]

Can subs be abused? I think my husband is taking them (without perscription) so illegally, and i dont know why.. I thought they were made to not be abused?

They are still an opiate, and give opiate effects. These effects are what control the drug cravings.

It's a lot like methadone, if you're more familiar with it... it is used for the same purposes, at least.

 

[IndustrialStrength]

Can subs be abused? I think my husband is taking them (without perscription) so illegally, and i dont know why.. I thought they were made to not be abused?

The reasons vary.
I know when I first was getting into opiates, basically naive that I actually preferred bupe to full agonists.
Once my tolerance went up I began to prefer full agonists.
However, when I was opiate naive I found bupe to be better than full agonists.
My reasoning at the time was that it was nice & stimulating & lasted for longer than other opiates I had tried at the time.
I'm not sure on his reasoning but perhaps it is similar to what mine used to be.

 

[jaguraguguru]

IndustrialStrength, your reasons are valid for many. For example, I have never really enjoyed any full agonists such as heroin or oxycodone and the prodrugs (codeine, hydrocodone) are completely ineffective for me, but suboxone (buprenorphine) is a great drug with modest to extreme euphoria that lasts a REALLY long time at the right dose. I was very naive to opioids when I started taking it, but I now take it basically daily recreationally and medically (for pain and as an anti-depressant/motivator/stimulant).

LostWife, the patent says that the naloxone in the pill makes them not able to be abused or to cause withdrawal upon IV administration, but it's a farce. Buprenorphine binds more strongly to the opioid receptors than naloxone, so the naloxone is useless. As CaptainHeroin has mentioned, it was probably done in a bid to get the patent accepted, but it's truly a lie. Anyways, the drug is actually fairly benign in most ways and is unlikely to cause any serious addiction or problems. Withdrawal is very mild to moderate for those not previously addicted to full agonists and there is no risk of death or coma except when taken in high doses with other depressants like benzodiazepines and/or alcohol, barbiturates, etc. I do find them quite enjoyable at higher doses than a calm, smooth stimulant dose, so that is likely why he is taking them.

 

[caseface99]

Anyone else sneeze uncontrollably after sniffing suboxone? Im guessing its one of the binders since nothing else ever makes me sneeze.

 

[fm1983]

^ No, but my nose runs for ages afterwords.