Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

I've gotta question that I can't seem to find anywhere no matter how hard I search. Say I were taking 12mgs of sub a day. If I manage to break through with an opiate and get a buzz, when I take my next dose of bupe would I be alright or would I get stuck with precipitated withdrawals?

Breaking through 12mg of buprenorphine will be near impossible, I would definitely taper down on buprenorphine before trying to get high again.

 

[edgewise1]

I have a couple questions about sub and mixing other drugs with it. I take tramadol for my pain and have for the past 9 years. My tolerance is quite high at this point, as I average ~1500 mg's daily. I wonder if sub is effective for a tramadol addiction? I have taken 1200 mgs today, in two equal doses with the last at 1:00 PM. About a 1/2 hour ago I snorted 4 mg of suboxone. I felt a little funny for fifteen to twenty minutes, but that has passed and I can feel some effects from the sub, effects I am not complaining about! I am sorta reluctant to start on sub as I am afraid I might like mixing the tram with it and then end up in a big fuckin mess! I also wanted to ask about sub doctors in general. My only experience has been what I have heard from my cousins wife as she is on sub maintenance. The doctor she started with simply had her come in, he started with 8 mg, then another 8 mg about 20 minutes later. He then wrote out a script for 120 of the 8 mg pills. He doesn't take insurance, just a flat fee of $200.00 each visit. From what I can gather, it seems the doctor is running people in and out and giving a large script of the sub. Guess what I am getting at is that the doctor does not seem to be doing anything but prescribing sub at $200 a pop. I know at one time it only took a short time for a doctor to be able to administer suboxone. From the looks of things all the dr accomplished was to get her completely addicted to sub!! Anyone run into a dr like this? I'm not sure I could trust a dr like this. But since finding BL I have come across so much information, and I usually spend several hours a night perusing that info. Anyway, just curious about a couple things and sitting here definately pain free!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I have a couple questions about sub and mixing other drugs with it. I take tramadol for my pain and have for the past 9 years. My tolerance is quite high at this point, as I average ~1500 mg's daily. I wonder if sub is effective for a tramadol addiction? I have taken 1200 mgs today, in two equal doses with the last at 1:00 PM. About a 1/2 hour ago I snorted 4 mg of suboxone. I felt a little funny for fifteen to twenty minutes, but that has passed and I can feel some effects from the sub, effects I am not complaining about! I am sorta reluctant to start on sub as I am afraid I might like mixing the tram with it and then end up in a big fuckin mess! I also wanted to ask about sub doctors in general. My only experience has been what I have heard from my cousins wife as she is on sub maintenance. The doctor she started with simply had her come in, he started with 8 mg, then another 8 mg about 20 minutes later. He then wrote out a script for 120 of the 8 mg pills. He doesn't take insurance, just a flat fee of $200.00 each visit. From what I can gather, it seems the doctor is running people in and out and giving a large script of the sub. Guess what I am getting at is that the doctor does not seem to be doing anything but prescribing sub at $200 a pop. I know at one time it only took a short time for a doctor to be able to administer suboxone. From the looks of things all the dr accomplished was to get her completely addicted to sub!! Anyone run into a dr like this? I'm not sure I could trust a dr like this. But since finding BL I have come across so much information, and I usually spend several hours a night perusing that info. Anyway, just curious about a couple things and sitting here definately pain free!

Suboxone would be the best thing to help you get off of tramadol. It has a more profound effect on different opiate receptors and is a partial agonist. Whereas, methadone is a full mu agonist but only has NMDA antagonism along with it.

Get a doctor who doesn't charge as much. Just keep calling numbers and asking questions about what you need.

 

[edgewise1]

Thanks CH. The $200 is less than my monthly tramadol expense is, and I do have excellent insurance to get the sub, so going this route would save me $350 to $400 a month. I'm just thinking about this at this stage of the game. My plan has been to taper down on the tram, but if that doesn't pan out then I may have to rethink my options, with this being one.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thanks CH. The $200 is less than my monthly tramadol expense is, and I do have excellent insurance to get the sub, so going this route would save me $350 to $400 a month. I'm just thinking about this at this stage of the game. My plan has been to taper down on the tram, but if that doesn't pan out then I may have to rethink my options, with this being one.

Cool! Yeah, Suboxone is really affordable in comparison.

You can taper down on the tramadol for sure, just start taking about 50mg or 100mg less per dose each day. Get to where you feel comfortable and jump off when you're ready.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

CH do you really think tramadol is enough to warrant suboxone treatment?

From what I know of my past use of tramadol, it is the easiest opiate to kick and withdrawl are minimal even going cold turkey. Although suboxone is not a full antogonist, it is quite potent and imo more addictive and potent than tramadol by far. I would suggest a taper plan w/ the tramadol and near the tail end, a combo of ibuprofen/small dose of benzo/ and melatonin at night for sleep (no more than 2 mgs)... after that dose I find no increase in effectiveness and in fact feel quite drowsy if I take more than 2 mgs in a night. I feel that methadone and suboxone is only necessary when someone has a daily habit of opiates along the lines of, 60 or more mgs of oxy a day 80 mgs or more of hydro a day or 40 mgs of oxymorphone or more a day . . . To my knowledge 1 mg of suboxone is equivalent to about 15 mgs of oxy... so it would take daily amounts of tramadol so high that you would most likely puke or have a seizure.... to warrant an opiate maintenence or treatment program...

When I kicked a 70 mg oxy habit a few years back. It went like this;

day 1 normal 70mgs dose
day 2 65 mgs
day 3 50 mgs
day 4 30 mgs
day 5 15 mgs, 2 mgs of xanax (1 mg in the morning, 1 mg at night + 3 ibuprofens during the evening for w/d pains and aches, as well as 1 mg of melatonin 1 hour before bed.
day 6 10 mgs, 2 mgs ox xanax (1 mg in morning, 1 mg at night + 3 ibuprofens during the evening for w/d pains and aches, as well as 1 mg of melatonin 1 hour before bed.
day 7 5 mg 1 mg of xanax (.25 mgs in the morning and .75 mgs at night + 3 ibuprofens in the vening for aches and pains, as well as 1 mg of melatonin 1 hour before bed.
day 8 5 mgs of oxy again, 1 mg of xanax (.25 mgs in the morning .75 mgs @ night + 3 ibuprofens for aches and pains, as well as 1 mg of melatonin 1 hour before bed.
day 9 2.5 mgs oxy, 1 mg of xanax (.25 mgs in the morning .75 mgs @ night + 3 ibuprofens for aches and pains, as well as 1 mg of melatonin 1 hour before bed.
day 10 no oxy up the dose of xanax back to 2 mgs (.5 mgs in the morning, 1.5 mgs @ night + 3 ibuprofens in the evening for aches and pains as well as 1 mg melatonin 1 hour before bed.
day 11 no oxy, exact same xanax, ibuprofen, and melatonin schedule as day 10
day 12 no oxy cut back to 1 mg of xanax only for night, as well as the same amount of ibuprofen and melatonin before bed.
day 12 only .5 mgs of xanax @ night as well as the ibuprofen and melatonin before bed
day 13 only .25 mgs of xanax @ night for sleep and depending on aches and pains remaining 1-3 ibuprofens and 1 mg of melatonin before bed
day 14 only ibuprofen and melatonin for sleep. If xanax is absolutely necessary, only use at night and no more than .25 mgs

This is assuming you have no benzo tolerance. I would hate to see someone addicted to tramadol get stuck on suboxone for a few years when not necessary. (Plus doctors commonly over prescribe suboxone, increasing the chance of a long addiction.... most people who are prescribed 32 mgs of suboxone can get by on 16 . . . most of those prescribed 16 mgs . . . can get by on 8 . . . and those on 8 can get by on 4 mgs or even 2!

After a week long binge of heroin (1/5th of a gram of high quality east coast powder IV'ed) I waited 24 hours after my last shot and 2 mgs of suboxone held me for 30 full hours. I didnt get fully sick until I reached the 40 hour mark! From only 2 mgs!!!!

 

[oldhead]

I'm a student, and am trying to find work.

My aspirations are to complete undergrad and go onto grad school possibly. I hope to one day be a therapist or psychologist studying or researching or practicing in one capacity or another. I haven't decided on what I really want to do yet though.

I thought about becoming a psychiatrist but it'll likely be more trouble than it's worth.

I too have always wondered what the Captain did. I guessed he was in the medical field. I also pictured him to be older then he is. From your post your barking up the right tree on wanting to be a therapist or psychologist. Sounds perfect for you and I believe you will be a caring one.

 

[fistful_of_needles]

Cool! Yeah, Suboxone is really affordable in comparison.

You can taper down on the tramadol for sure, just start taking about 50mg or 100mg less per dose each day. Get to where you feel comfortable and jump off when you're ready.

Also it's fact that Tramadol + Buprenorphine synergise pretty good ...hahaha 1500mgs Trams a day is insane though ...I occasionally pop between 200-300 mgs Tramadol with 2mgs Subutex which is enough to keep me high for sometime(increased "euphoria" when combined) ...I'm pretty sure 2-4mgs/day Buprenorphine will be more than enough to control that ridiculously high Tram habit of yours.Try taking half of that (750mgs) with a low dose of bupre and then try to experiment until you find your comfort zone so to speak.

 

[fistful_of_needles]

By my experience with doing Trams for relatively long periods of time I also suspect that trouble begins when you go beyond 400mgs/day , I personally was on an average dose of 200-300mgs/day for almost a year and quit without the slightest vestige of withdrawals so ... This and other similar experiences with quasi/weak opioids leads me to believe that nothing compares to a full agonist withdrawal...H is simply your life's worst nightmare to quit,everything I've quit pales in comparison.

 

[stuckinaloop]

Glad you still got high

I had to take 1 additional percocet and felt the normal high I would get. So I would say the total effects were reduced by 25%. CaptainH was on point... thanks to CH as well as stuckinaloop!!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

CH do you really think tramadol is enough to warrant suboxone treatment?

For the doses he's taking, and the amounts he's on, yes. I don't know how well it's going to help tramadol WD though. You can also take tramadol on top of Suboxone and vice versa, but given that it could work.

From what I know of my past use of tramadol, it is the easiest opiate to kick and withdrawl are minimal even going cold turkey.

That's not everyone's experience with it. I never used it often but I've heard some people say the WD for it can be bad as well.

Although suboxone is not a full antogonist, it is quite potent and imo more addictive and potent than tramadol by far. I would suggest a taper plan w/ the tramadol and near the tail end, a combo of ibuprofen/small dose of benzo/ and melatonin at night for sleep (no more than 2 mgs)... after that dose I find no increase in effectiveness and in fact feel quite drowsy if I take more than 2 mgs in a night. I feel that methadone and suboxone is only necessary when someone has a daily habit of opiates along the lines of, 60 or more mgs of oxy a day 80 mgs or more of hydro a day or 40 mgs of oxymorphone or more a day . . . To my knowledge 1 mg of suboxone is equivalent to about 15 mgs of oxy... so it would take daily amounts of tramadol so high that you would most likely puke or have a seizure.... to warrant an opiate maintenence or treatment program...

While that would be a nice alternative for some people, benzos can be just as addictive, if not more so, than Suboxone. Especially if you have legitimate anxiety or insomnia, it's very hard to not overuse benzodiazepines.

This is assuming you have no benzo tolerance. I would hate to see someone addicted to tramadol get stuck on suboxone for a few years when not necessary. (Plus doctors commonly over prescribe suboxone, increasing the chance of a long addiction.... most people who are prescribed 32 mgs of suboxone can get by on 16 . . . most of those prescribed 16 mgs . . . can get by on 8 . . . and those on 8 can get by on 4 mgs or even 2!

After a week long binge of heroin (1/5th of a gram of high quality east coast powder IV'ed) I waited 24 hours after my last shot and 2 mgs of suboxone held me for 30 full hours. I didnt get fully sick until I reached the 40 hour mark! From only 2 mgs!!!!

That's why it's better to go through Suboxone at your own pace instead of following doctor's orders (unless there is some reason why you can't self-medicate properly).

I too have always wondered what the Captain did. I guessed he was in the medical field. I also pictured him to be older then he is. From your post your barking up the right tree on wanting to be a therapist or psychologist. Sounds perfect for you and I believe you will be a caring one.

hahaha thanks! Yeah I probably seem much older than I really am.

Also it's fact that Tramadol + Buprenorphine synergise pretty good ...hahaha 1500mgs Trams a day is insane though ...I occasionally pop between 200-300 mgs Tramadol with 2mgs Subutex which is enough to keep me high for sometime(increased "euphoria" when combined) ...I'm pretty sure 2-4mgs/day Buprenorphine will be more than enough to control that ridiculously high Tram habit of yours.Try taking half of that (750mgs) with a low dose of bupre and then try to experiment until you find your comfort zone so to speak.

This is why I suggested Suboxone would probably be a good idea. 1.5 grams of tramadol would send most people seizing all the way to the ER.

By my experience with doing Trams for relatively long periods of time I also suspect that trouble begins when you go beyond 400mgs/day , I personally was on an average dose of 200-300mgs/day for almost a year and quit without the slightest vestige of withdrawals so ... This and other similar experiences with quasi/weak opioids leads me to believe that nothing compares to a full agonist withdrawal...H is simply your life's worst nightmare to quit,everything I've quit pales in comparison.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[KalinSaast]

Suboxone and St Johns Wort

Hi all. Ive been viewing these forums now for around a year and thought its about time to post and say hello. I live in the UK and have been on Suboxone now for 2 years. I'm prescribed an 8mg daily and am on weekly pickup.

I have been testing the effects of injecting suboxone now for the last 6 months. I had managed to store up around 200 8mg tablets over the 1st year, and with the spoils of war i decided to experiment. I have been dosing 4mg 3 times a day. So far i can't say that there has been many side effects. Even after this amount of time on suboxone i still manage a buzz when injecting. It's the sensastion of having warm water poured on your head slowly, followed by a small 30 second rush that take the breath away. I occasionally use heroin every few months. Last week i had a couple of £10 bags and the next day i left it a little early and decided to shoot up my subs cause i had enough of the smack. Upon injecting i had and instant clammyness wash over me. From a scientific view, suboxone does exactly what it says on the tin. Luckily for me it only last 20 minutes.

I prepare my suboxone by crushing up in a mortar and pestle. I then get my ice cube box out the freezer. I add 200ml of boiling water to one of the cube sections with cube in. After 5 minutes i can draw up 120 ml of chilled water and put it in the spoon with the crushed suboxone. I then rip the bottom half of a filter off, about 1/8th of the filter in size. I quickly mix the solution, push the pin into the filter halfway.

Now i am holding the needle with the filter in the end. Put it in the spoon and move from side to side, keeping the suboxone and water solution moving about so it doesn't settle. The reason for ripping the bottom of the filter is so that when moving filter about, the stuff you cant draw up gets trapped in the filter and not in the bottom of the spoon. As im moving the filter about i slowly draw up the solution. From 120ml im left with just under 100ml of good usable stuff.

Now the reason im posting is to find out how to take st johns wort with my suboxone. Ive just brought a pot of them and want to try to get a little more out of my script by potentiating my subs. Any and all help would be very much appreciated. Nice to meet you all again. Great site

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Hi all. Ive been viewing these forums now for around a year and thought its about time to post and say hello. I live in the UK and have been on Suboxone now for 2 years. I'm prescribed an 8mg daily and am on weekly pickup.

I have been testing the effects of injecting suboxone now for the last 6 months. I had managed to store up around 200 8mg tablets over the 1st year, and with the spoils of war i decided to experiment. I have been dosing 4mg 3 times a day. So far i can't say that there has been many side effects. Even after this amount of time on suboxone i still manage a buzz when injecting. It's the sensastion of having warm water poured on your head slowly, followed by a small 30 second rush that take the breath away. I occasionally use heroin every few months. Last week i had a couple of £10 bags and the next day i left it a little early and decided to shoot up my subs cause i had enough of the smack. Upon injecting i had and instant clammyness wash over me. From a scientific view, suboxone does exactly what it says on the tin. Luckily for me it only last 20 minutes.

I prepare my suboxone by crushing up in a mortar and pestle. I then get my ice cube box out the freezer. I add 200ml of boiling water to one of the cube sections with cube in. After 5 minutes i can draw up 120 ml of chilled water and put it in the spoon with the crushed suboxone. I then rip the bottom half of a filter off, about 1/8th of the filter in size. I quickly mix the solution, push the pin into the filter halfway.

Now i am holding the needle with the filter in the end. Put it in the spoon and move from side to side, keeping the suboxone and water solution moving about so it doesn't settle. The reason for ripping the bottom of the filter is so that when moving filter about, the stuff you cant draw up gets trapped in the filter and not in the bottom of the spoon. As im moving the filter about i slowly draw up the solution. From 120ml im left with just under 100ml of good usable stuff.

Now the reason im posting is to find out how to take st johns wort with my suboxone. Ive just brought a pot of them and want to try to get a little more out of my script by potentiating my subs. Any and all help would be very much appreciated. Nice to meet you all again. Great site

First, you're IVing too much Suboxone. 4mg at once is quite a lot for a dose. I started at 2mg per dose, but quickly realized 1mg held me sufficiently. I'm now at 0.1mg per dose, and still get the same rush and high you describe.

Once you taper down to a little bit less per dose, that's when I would take St. John's Wort. I don't know how it works optimally so someone else can fill you in there.

PS - "120ml" you mean 120 units. 1mL = 1cc = 100 units.

1.2 mL = 120 units.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^ there's been a surge of people I've noticed that are confusing measuring.. like the mL, CC, and units.. maybe it's been going on for a while and i just started noticing it but it does seem more and more people are confused when it comes to measuring IV doses *NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE* i was just stating something I've noticed and *AM NOT MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CONFUSED* because I was once somebody who didn't know how to use the measuring terms and it is confusing in the beginning, but everyone catches on eventually :D

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ there's been a surge of people I've noticed that are confusing measuring.. like the mL, CC, and units.. maybe it's been going on for a while and i just started noticing it but it does seem more and more people are confused when it comes to measuring IV doses *NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE* i was just stating something I've noticed and *AM NOT MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CONFUSED* because I was once somebody who didn't know how to use the measuring terms and it is confusing in the beginning, but everyone catches on eventually :D

LaceyK even made a thread about it.

I don't think it's hard at all to differentiate the two, but it's an understandable mistake. Most people think CC and mL can't be the same thing otherwise why'd they have 2 different names for the same thing? They just do. 1cc = 1mL

But that's why people like me are here on Bluelight, to help you all with the numbers as I'm naturally not all calculus smart or anything but I can work basic numbers all right.

 

[Cee Hawkins]

Hey Guys,

Got a question here about Suboxone and Oxymorphone. I'm really struggling.

I was prescribed the Subs to kick a pretty nasty Insufflated Oxymorphone habit. I was having to insufflate 40mg Opana ER about every 5-6 hours to keep WD at bay to start with. In the course of a week I somehow tapered to 20mg every 6 hours or so. That's where I jumped on the Suboxone.

I waited about 20 hrs till I was a complete wreck then took 8mg of Suboxone, this being yesterday morning. In about 2 hours I started to feel a little relief, not much though. It took away the full-body RLS I get bad, which is my worst symptom, but left me with really bad sweats, hot & cold, headache, and depression + lethargy. So about 2 hours later I insuflated 2mg and sulingualed another 2mg as well. An hour or more later I felt A LITTLE more relief. I toughed it out the rest of the day and then last night took an evening dose of 10mg sublingual. I tossed and turned all night sweating like an animal sleeping for about 20min at a time. This is not the relief I expected from Suboxone.

So today I'm laying in bed and wondering if I should just go back to the Oxymorphone as I really have some important stuff to do tonight and tomorrow. It's been 12+ hours since my last dose of 10mg Suboxone. Yesterday was the only day I've taken the suboxone, at a total of 22mg through the day with maybe only %30-%40 relief of my symptoms.

Would the Oxymorphone work later this evening at say 20hrs from my last dose of 10mg? Also, if it does, can I go back to the Sub as soon as I feel sick again? And last, did I do something wrong here? Is this common for people to still feel pretty nasty with the Sub? Im just confused sick and have important shit to do. I wish I would have waited to start this, but my idiot doctor said it would be, "All good".

 

[Cee Hawkins]

If I decided to stick with the subs- Can anyone help me understand whats going on here? My doc oviously doesnt really know what he's talking about. He scripted for 8mg 3x daily and thinks I should be on that for atleast a month before trying to taper. I myself really only wanted to do the subs for 2 weeks max. and then endure a hopefully weaker withdrawal after that, ut given the fact that they don't seem to help me a lot I'm wondering If I shouldn't just ditch the Suboxone Idea. Why should I feel mostly shitty for 2 weeks then feel good and shitty for another 2? You know what I'm saying here?

Any help would be awesome guys, but due to the responsiilities I have in the next 2 days my first question in the ^ABOVE^ post is much more important.

 

[daddysgone]

If I decided to stick with the subs- Can anyone help me understand whats going on here? My doc oviously doesnt really know what he's talking about. He scripted for 8mg 3x daily and thinks I should be on that for atleast a month before trying to taper. I myself really only wanted to do the subs for 2 weeks max. and then endure a hopefully weaker withdrawal after that.

Any help would be awesome guys, but due to the responsiilities I have in the next 2 days my first question ^ABOVE^ is much more important.

Ok let me try to help you out here and try to explain what is going on.

First off, good for you for getting on the suboxone. Its the first step towards getting your life on track.

Now, as for your continued symptoms. You have to understand that buprenorphine (suboxone) acts as a partial agonist (meaning it only partially activates your opioid receptors) whereas the opana you were taking acts as a full agonist.
When you switch to a partial agonist from a full agonist, it will take your body some time to get used to this change. Right now the suboxone is helping with some of the physical symptoms, but your body can still "tell the difference" between the full agonist you were taking, and the partial agonist you are now taking.

TRUST ME that if you tough it out, you will start to feel better and better each day. Your body will become adjusted to the partial agonist, and before you knwo it, you will feel fine. I know the first few days can really suck and it can be tempting to jump back on the full agonist, but if you can stick it out, I promise you that it will get much much better.

So, I hope that helps to explain whats going on with your symptoms right now. Again, this is a normal adjustment period, and soon your body will have acclimated to the partial agonist and you will feel worlds better. Just suck it up and stick it out and you will soon have your life back. Good luck and keep us updated.-DG

 

[mizzfine]

Hi I am new to Bluelight, although I have been reading threads for many years now, this is my first post.
I am addicted to Oxycontin doing 2 80mg/ day by method of chewing
I did some research and found people where effectively getting off oxys with the help of suboxone. I have been using approx 6mg daily for five days and have not touched an oxy since.
my question is I have one and a half subs left with no access to any more, going to a doctor would take weeks to get a prescription and I dont want to be taking the subs for a long time anyway.
can anyone make a suggestion as what i should do with the remaining one and a half 8mg pills i have left?
thanks sooo much

 

[Captain.Heroin]

welcome | your taper schedule

Hi I am new to Bluelight, although I have been reading threads for many years now, this is my first post.
I am addicted to Oxycontin doing 2 80mg/ day by method of chewing
I did some research and found people where effectively getting off oxys with the help of suboxone. I have been using approx 6mg daily for five days and have not touched an oxy since.
my question is I have one and a half subs left with no access to any more, going to a doctor would take weeks to get a prescription and I dont want to be taking the subs for a long time anyway.
can anyone make a suggestion as what i should do with the remaining one and a half 8mg pills i have left?
thanks sooo much

Sure. 12mg.

You're at 6mg per day. = day 0

day 1 - 4mg
day 2 - 2mg
day 3 - 1mg
day 4 - 1mg
day 5 - 0.5mg
day 6 - 0.5mg
day 7 - 0.25mg
day 8 - 0.25mg
day 9 - 0.25mg
day 10 - 0.25mg
day 11 - 0.25mg
day 12 - 0.25mg
day 13 - 0.25mg
day 14 - 0.25mg
day 15 - 0.125mg
...
day 22 - 0.125mg

By day 22 you can split the last 0.125mg dose in half and you can take the last miniscule bit when you feel "the worst".
That should be an effective taper for you if you're doing well thus far, and you should experience only minimal discomfort.

At the end of that month you should have a really low oxy tolerance and a new chance at sobriety. It's more like 3 weeks than a month, but factoring in a week of mild WD symptoms, within a month you should feel a lot better.

Good luck! And welcome to Bluelight!