Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[fistful_of_needles]

I'd love to get off of Sub and just use when craving comes about. But this drug is about 5 to 8 times more potent than I initially realized and I am worse off than when I started. I am either looking at lifetime use OR a slow taper but even .5 mg seems hard to jump at (I'm a HUGE WD pussy and have many, many responsibilities that require me to be on the top of my game). Has anyone made a stable solution?

I completely identify with this dilemma ... after over 15 years of drug use (speedballing was/is my drug of choice) I've been on sub maintenace for the last 7 months roughly and even though I've managed to taper down to 2-4 mg/day (Subutex) I can't see myself getting truly clean, after these 7 months I still have overwhelming cravings whenever I try not to use my Sub dose ...in short , I have a strong feeling that all I've done was to exchange one addiction for another (which is already a great thing,at least from a financial viewpoint since I was spending well over 80Euros/day on both coke and H) ,basically what you were saying about contemplating "lifetime use" with all the cons that come with it...people who say they feel "normal" on subutex must be either on deep denial or they've lost something very important somewhere along the way...Subutex is absolutely mood altering and I have this feeling that the consequences of longterm use can prove to be every bit as nocive as with any other full agonist out there... don't get me wrong though ,there's a part of me which agrees with those who see this pharm as a "lifesaver" since all of we have witnessed exactly where a H (to name but one) habit can lead to ... sometimes I just wish I had more hope of ever feeling really normal again without having to use any chemical as a crutch to get me through the day .

 

[Brose]

I don't want generic subutex; talc in my lungs is a no-go.

apparently generic subutex (Roxanne) uses cornstarch as a filler just like brand subutex.

http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22591&page=2 (Ctrl+F) "Talc" on the page

though i dont understand the significance of difference, i figured id post the info.

 

[cire113]

do you really believe that doctors out there would prescribe oxycodone to someone on maintenance? particularly for the explicit purpose of a transition from one maintenance drug to another maintenance drug? i understand your reasoning as to why it would be better in theory but realistically what doctor would do that? i wish my bupe doctor would gimme some oxy. but thats a fat chance of ever happening

lol my dr. did this to me switched me to oxy.... lol ofcourse id rather get the oxy..

i think he forgot about me cause hes still giving me 180mg oxy a day..

i told him i was on done and wanted to switch to sub.....

but now it looks like he will keep me on the oxy

 

[Eight0Eight]

^ You should switch from Oxy over to codeine for a few days before going to subutex/suboxone.

Sounds like your doctor would definitely do it also.

Switching from codeine to sub is EASY.

 

[HighonLife]

no one here has any opinion of the here to help hotline that is funded/ started by the people who make suboxone?

does anyone even know what i am refering to?

 

[cire113]

^ You should switch from Oxy over to codeine for a few days before going to subutex/suboxone.

Sounds like your doctor would definitely do it also.

Switching from codeine to sub is EASY.

actually im not ready to make a full commitment to sub yet..

I usually binge on OXY's for a week then take go on sub for 3-5 days then do another oxy binge..

been doing this a few months now... works pretty well at keeping the tolerance managable but still shitty switchign back and forth all the time

 

[HighonLife]

^^ i've been doin that as well as i am just not ready to say i am done with receational opiates completly

 

[fistful_of_needles]

not wanting to sound arrogant or anything but I don't think there's such a thing as "being done with recreational opiates completely" .

 

[DopaMan]

I am curious about something that almost deserves its own thread and thats the buprenorphine maintained individual trying to catch a high on methadone! then getting back on track with sublingual buprenorphine. Tried several times with H and failed unless IV and went back under the tongue in less than 24.

I'm guessing that its going to take about 24 hours off of bupe 12.5mg (pill and a half) to go to 150+ mg of methadone if not 300mg straight up and then 24 to 36 (prob 36) hours later an 8mg sub goes back under the tongue? Just curious as bupe seems to block the fuck outta anything non IV, or so I hear.

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

suboxone dose

the mega thread is over and i cant find the archive

well...

my friend basically has a 600mg tolerance, he get sscripted over 200 a week (30mg rox)

well his doctor fucked him over and no hes shit out of luck, hes got many percs and a few subs, like 6 or 7...

what can he do ? is 600mg oxy habit too much for suboxone to even work?

and yes 600mg at one time to just get a bit high

i would imagine atleast 300mgs a day of the percs hes got (will CWE most likely)
but then again hes got alittle over 600mgs of percs.. is he shit out of luck?

 

[KnowBudz]

I have never heard of someone's habit being too serious for effective maintenance. AFAIK, there is no formula for "if the user was doing x amount of y; z amount of suboxone is needed".

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

anymore advise?

so ive talked to him today... he took his last dose of 20 roxies (600mgs) this morning, it lasts him 24hrs~ of no WDs...

how much suboxone should he take tomorrow and how long should he wait, he says last time he had a 300mg habit he tryd using subs to get off but he got in precip WDs after waiting 26hrs to take subs... what should he do?

experts needed please

and KNOWBUDZ, i got budz lol... but how sure are u, cuz if thats not the case than how else would it work, why do people get scripted more than others who have higher tolerances... i mean 600mgs is a lot A LOT, hes gonna have to take more than normal peeps with a 100mgs tolerance or leess

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

fyi

i am in no way trying to show off about this kids tolerance, i am looking for help... i really feel for this kid cuz im really htinking hes fucked cuz idk if the suboxone will even help him...due to his rediculously like "holy fuck what the fuck are u thinking" taking that much, very large - tolerance

 

[drapedup]

your friend should consult a doctor there is no way for anyone to know the answer to this question via the internet. the only way to know is to speak with a doctor.

good luck to you and you friend!

 

[totach]

if hes taking that much tell him to try to lower his daily usage before making the switch to subs tell him to just try to get thru the day not take 600mg in one shot to get high i always felt like if i taprered first it always helps with the switch and 24hr is def not enough time wit a 600 mg habit i had a 400mg habit daily not in 1 shot n i waited 48hr

 

[PillPoppingAnimal]

do u think taking a low dose of sub 36hrs after his last dose [which he will most likely go into precipitated withdrawal] which causes the bupe to take the remaining opiates (oxycodone) off the receptors, be worth it? Since he is going to go thru hell as it is, itll just make it faster, right? than he can use the subs afterward... or will the subs not be enough period?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

the mega thread is over and i cant find the archive

No, no it's not. You have been here for quite a long time, yet clearly have no ability to browse the forums.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=461384 was easily found through this link: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=429458

It's on the first page when you first get to OD (the OD directory - not the Suboxone Mega Thread, though the SMT is usually on the 1st page too - it isn't always though).

This is getting merged instead of closed PPA. Consider yourself lucky.

well...

my friend basically has a 600mg tolerance, he get sscripted over 200 a week (30mg rox)

well his doctor fucked him over and no hes shit out of luck, hes got many percs and a few subs, like 6 or 7...

what can he do ? is 600mg oxy habit too much for suboxone to even work?

and yes 600mg at one time to just get a bit high

i would imagine atleast 300mgs a day of the percs hes got (will CWE most likely)
but then again hes got alittle over 600mgs of percs.. is he shit out of luck?

Yes, he's shit out of luck. You're not going to make percocet stretch you very far if you need 600mg of oxycodone all at once just to get high.

I'd say use the percocet, CWE them. Start off with the equivalent of a fraction of the 600mg dose, and to start tapering down. He's not going to get high - he can forget about that for a while.

After the percocets are all gone, he can wait out the WD's as long as he can before beginning Suboxone.

 

[morphonorconic]

The longer he waits before taking Suboxone, the better off he will be. 36 hours or longer would be ideal; he should take the smallest effective dose at that time, and go from there.

I have never had a habit or tolerance that large, but regardless, I have taken Buprenorphine 24 hours after using full agonists, and I have never had a problem with precipitated withdrawl or anything of that nature. It always provided me relief.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Wall 'o' Text!

Down to 1.2mg/day already.

Problem is.... I find subutex BORING AS FUCK - and my uni bursary comes through to my bank account in a few hours (almost 500 quid).

I can almost smell a relapse.

Sweet, sweet relapse...

Go buy some psychedelics/weed instead.

I understand it'll be hard to say NO to temptation but I know you can do it man!

Hey i was wondering if whether you have to prove opiate dependence in order to get a suboxone script. i understand this is unethical because of the limit on how many patients a doctor can treat, but i dont plan on doing this often.

i got a free one today from somone who gets them scribed but i accidently swallowed it and judging from how i feel now id love to see what its like to let a full one dissolve

You essentially do - they will observe your BP, heart rate, and several other factors (essentially by surveying/analyzing you) to see if you're actually going through opiate WD or not.

Suboxone is not something you should attempt to get a recreational high out of. If you are attempting to do that, you need to wait in between doses. Having your own prescription of an opiate you like to use in a recreational fashion is not a step in the right direction. If you get dependent (mentally and/or physically) on buprenorphine, what are you going to use to get off of that?

Buprenorphine is a good option for those who are addicted to strong opiates (not potent opiates - buprenorphine is very potent. Strong as in the strength of the euphoria/analgesia/rush/etc).

You also do NOT need to let a "full one dissolve". Without an opiate tolerance, < 1mg is a good starting dose. 2mg or 8mg is entirely too much for someone without an opiate tolerance.

Save the slot for someone who actually needs buprenorphine to get better. Get some friends who want to liquidate their quantity of Suboxone, and enjoy it every now and then - but do not get dependent on it. It's better to go without than to not be able to go without.

If you have no tolerance and was given a whole Suboxone pill - then you are lucky you fucked up and swallowed it. Especially if it was an 8mg pill. That shit could have killed you.

I don't think buprenorphine can kill a healthy adult without using any other CNS depressants.

Yeah, my clinic made me give a urine test before I got a script. If they didn't then any arse-hole and his mother would be getting scripts just so they could go out and sell the stuff.

Well...that's not exactly true. That's what the intake process is for (if you don't get a COWS score high enough you're not getting Suboxone)...plus you don't need a UA to figure out if someone's legitimately coming down or not.

Sub isn't really a good drug to be fucking with if you aren't already addicted. Its too strong, and from what I understand, doesn't give a particulary good high.

Without an opiate tolerance it has a great high, it's just not "as great" as heroin, for example.

the thing is that a perc 30 around here is X bucks, any junk around here will be stomped all over, and a 12 mg sub is only X bucks. just seems more economic

Yes, Suboxone is more economic than other opiates. However, 12mg of Suboxone would be 1 and 1/2 8mg pills, or 6 of the 2mg pills. They only make 8mg and 2mg strengths of Suboxone.

If you put an 8mg subutex under your tounge without a habit, I would be VERY suprised if you didn't end up dead or in a very bad way in hospital.

Fucking around with sub with no habit, isn't much differeny to fucking around with fentynal (sp?)..

That's rather incorrect 808. Fentanyl has tons and tons of respiratory depression for the amount of euphoria you'll get out of it. Buprenorphine doesn't have heavy respiratory depression compared to the amount of euphoria you get out of it.

Additionally, the dose/response curve (coupled with the ceiling dose effect) of buprenorphine will prevent people from ODing whereas fentanyl is extremely easy to OD on (you will likely OD on fentanyl before feeling any good amount of euphoria like you would with most other opiates). Fentanyl's dose/response curve is a very steep one (unlike buprenorphine).

so i get up this morning, and feel the need to IV some dilaudid. i only have 2mg ones, and put 2 at a time into the pill crusher to make my solution. so i put 2-2mgs into the pill crusher, open it up to put it on a small piece of paper to dump it into the thing i use to mix it with water....and notice its orangish! wtf at first i think, more like hope, that i left some xanax in there. i have some orange 0.5mg footballs too. but in the back of my head i'm thinking, huh, my girlfriend has been sniffing her suboxone to make it go farther. uh oh, i hope not....

so i call 'baaabbbbbyyy...' and when she comes into the room i ask her if she used my pill crusher, or left anything in it. i guess i grabbed hers by accident (they look exactly the same), and there was 1-2mgs of suboxone in it! fuck especially cuz i only have a few dilaudids left!

so anyways, to the point...

now we have a mixture of 4mg dilaudid and 1-2mg suboxone.

i put it aside folded in a piece of paper.

my question is, is this little mixture dangerous/pointless to save? should i just throw it out? im thinking if sniffed or eaten, itd just make one of us feel sick. maybe it could even be dangerous, altho a very small amount of each. both are threshold doses for each of us, its not the amount, its the combination.

should i just throw it out?

I'd be interested to see how this plays out.

I'm sure 1 or 2mg of buprenorphine isn't enough to clog up all the mu-opioid recpetors...you could still get high.

*HOWEVER*

I wouldn't want you to go through precipitated WD's, or for the rush of the dilaudid to not be as good.

If I knew a way to separate them I'd suggest it, but I'm not sure. Sorry man.

Overall, I would take 1/4 of the mixture (1mg dilaudid, 0.25 to 0.5mg buprenorphine) and try that (you were going to IV anyways right?).

Has anyone else made this mistake - how did it turn out?

that's why it's unethical?

suboxone doesn't have the same stigma as methadone, yet... i'd love to see it stay that way but people like this are going to make that difficult. 3 people have died this year in this state alone from suboxone, and only 1 of them had a script for it. my doctor said the DEA had just come thru his office, they're cracking down hardcore b/c they're seeing a ton of sub turning up on the streets.

Can you give me a link for the deaths from Suboxone?

I'm sure they were mixing it with other CNS depressants.

I don't know why the DEA would care that Suboxone is hitting the streets...would they rather see people use heroin instead of Suboxone? That's what it sounds like to me.

At the very least, swallow it.

That way both the bupe and naloxone will be inactive.

You won't get much of a rush from the D - but its still better than chucking it.

The bupe won't be inactive, but with such a low BA (at around 10%), it's very unlikely it would do anything to mess up getting high on the dilaudid. Good idea man.

I'm starting to realize just how lucky we are in this country where all you have to do in order to get a Subutex prescription is book an appointment with a psychiatrist (costs something like 60-70 USD) and after this each 7 8mg Box costs you around 13 USD and that is basically it . This is the way one does it if one wish to go all lo-profile about it ,otherwise you can book yourself into one of these statutory drug rehabilitation centers and do it all for free (including both methadone and Subutex,whichever you opt for)

In the US, you don't need to jump through many hoops to get Suboxone. It's rather easy, just like you said.

It's just that not everyone is lucky enough to find a doctor who isn't going to put you through hell (UA's, not accepting insurance, requiring you're in 3 days of WD or something like that, not prescribing the buprenorphine formulation most fitting for you, etc).

i tend to agree to some degree, i believe even sub doctors tend to prescribe too much medication. i had a 80-100 mg/day oxy habit, and my doctor wanted me on 8mg of sub a day when i could use only 4mg a day for the first few days to a week and then only use 2mg for the next couple weeks n now i only use about 1mg a day ne more but even a month later my doctor wants me on 4mg a day everyday and even told me he didnt want me takin any other dose other then 4mg a day without callin him first, and he wants me on this dose until mid december when i see him again. fuck him im doin what i feel comfortable with

There's no way he can control how much Suboxone you take. That's the beauty of it. All you have to do is say "yes, I took my 4mg!" and he'll just have to believe it. If not, it should be incredibly easy to find a doctor willing to believe you.

has any one else noticed that a doctor will not take insurance? around me the docs that have a sub license are family doctors, so i know they can take it for regular check ups and stuff, but go to see them for subs and BAM you have to pay a shit ton of money for the appt.

Some won't accept insurance. Just keep looking - you'll find one who accepts insurance.

no one here has any opinion of the here to help hotline that is funded/ started by the people who make suboxone?

does anyone even know what i am refering to?

I have no idea man, sorry. Haven't ever heard of them.

not wanting to sound arrogant or anything but I don't think there's such a thing as "being done with recreational opiates completely" .

Yes there is.

In life, you may get tired/bored/grow out of using a class/type of drugs (or any one drug). There's many people who have successfully quit drugs like opiates, but also many other kinds of drugs too.

 

[StaffWriter]

no one here has any opinion of the here to help hotline that is funded/ started by the people who make suboxone?

does anyone even know what i am refering to?

Yeah, I picked up a card at my doctor's office with the info. I have not called the "sobriety coach" or whatever the hell they call themselves, but I did sign up for the e-mail version, where they drop tidbits of information on other ways of working on your sobriety. Is it helpful? Probably, to those who don't already know much about addiction therapy. For me? It's probably just common sense. What exactly is your question?