Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Free_Man**]

The second one, it's all marketing.

sorry mods for swearing but what a crock of fucking shit

god damn - asshole govermennt - and they wonder why people make their own rules - why would we trust those corrupt Mother F@@kers.... ??!!

Oxy thanks for the info ..

 

[Oxymorphone]

sorry mods for swearing but what a crock of fucking shit

god damn - asshole govermennt - and they wonder why people make their own rules - why would we trust those corrupt Mother F@@kers.... ??!!

Oxy thanks for the info ..

It's the drug companies not the government, the government is just stupid.

 

[Free_Man**]

It's the drug companies not the government, the government is just stupid.

hmmm ok well , surely the government have people who know something ???? they must do surely ? im in UK here myself and whilst people like the prime minister might not know much about pharmacology... im sure he has people who DO know - and he prob just turns a blind eye to some things - as long as there is money in it....

anyways - im gonna shut up now cause i dont think this is material fit for the bupe mega thread

thanks againa oxy

 

[fistful_of_needles]

"Be Careful/read up on SJW side-effects, risks: a lot of people say it does mess with other meds, like anti-depressants (and probably will make things like benzos and other opiates LESS effective). But if you do it, I'd be interested hear your results."


So, I've been taking SJW (333mg capsules) for the last 4 days along with Bupre (my usual 2- 4 mg daily dose) and other occasional pharms ,namely midazolam , alprazolam and Tramadol and by no means I've felt that it makes any of these less effective ,I've actually felt some mild positive effects which I'd describe as anti depressive yet nothing even remotely close to "euphoria" ...

 

[Oxymorphone]

"Be Careful/read up on SJW side-effects, risks: a lot of people say it does mess with other meds, like anti-depressants (and probably will make things like benzos and other opiates LESS effective). But if you do it, I'd be interested hear your results."


So, I've been taking SJW (333mg capsules) for the last 4 days along with Bupre (my usual 2- 4 mg daily dose) and other occasional pharms ,namely midazolam , alprazolam and Tramadol and by no means I've felt that it makes any of these less effective ,I've actually felt some mild positive effects which I'd describe as anti depressive yet nothing even remotely close to "euphoria" ...

Hmm keep us posted. If it really works to boost bupe I'm interested.

 

[Oxymorphone]

I just got some SJW and am going to take some now and test it out later.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^Naloxone is ony active when IV'd.

However, Buprenorphine has a higher affinity to the opiate receptrs than Naloxone. Meaning, after a little competition - the buprenorphine wins.

The naloxone is bascially just a scare tactic.

Actually the naloxone is still active but actually inert with all ROA's. Some people have sensitivities to it but that's rare.

How Suboxone works is not 100% known, but buprenorphine (which overrides other opiates and naloxone) is a very potent opiate. It is a mu agonist (it's metabolite is a better mu agonist) and it also has kappa antagonist properties as well as a few other ones that aren't as major.

Naloxone basically just is a scare tactic as 808 said. There's no reason to be afraid of Suboxone, it's essentially the same thing as Subutex.

Nalaxone doesn't work period. Bupe has a higher affinity to receptor than naloxone making naloxone useless if someone were to overdose on bupe which makes it dangerous if someone with no tolerance manages to OD. A shot of nalaxone or similar antagonist will be ineffective.

It was just put in there to fool the FDA and it worked, they market it saying nalaxone isn't absorbed sublingually but is when IVed the user gets a full use to discourage illicit use but in reality you can IV suboxone just fine.

This is essentially true.

isnt bupe an antagonist at kappa sites anyway ? and its just the mu sistes that make u high right ?

Yes. Kappa antagonist properties are nice, it gives buprenorphine a nice antidepressant/anxiolytic property. However it is the mu-agonist action of buprenorphine which makes you high, yes.

so the nalxone competes with the bupe at the mu sites (naloxone trying to be an antagonist and bupe trying to be an agonist) - but the bupe wins and kicks the naloxone out of there - on both mu and kappa ?

if its so useless why do the pharmcompanies / government bother with it ?

i know a lot of us know more than doctors etc - but some of them are actually quite good at this stuff.... dont they know it doesnt work ???

Because it got Suboxone and Subutex passed for approval through the FDA, and now you can get it from your doctor once a month. They wouldn't have let such an abusable drug end up in the hands of drug users if they knew the real life consequences of doing so.

Sadly, you can IV methadone too - even though it is MUCH worse for you (without having a sterile ampule of it of course which they have made).

People are just very ignorant about pharmacology, and you would be surprised how many doctors are so very ignorant about how drugs actually work.

sorry mods for swearing but what a crock of fucking shit

god damn - asshole govermennt - and they wonder why people make their own rules - why would we trust those corrupt Mother F@@kers.... ??!!

Oxy thanks for the info ..

We all swear around here no need to fucking appologize!

The government is a giant asshole - I agree with you completely.

Hmm keep us posted. If it really works to boost bupe I'm interested.

Dazzle is the DOC for many buprenorphine users. I really like it but haven't used it a whole lot; I'm going to wait until I can get more before I use it again.

It's the drug companies not the government, the government is just stupid.

The government is partially to blame if you ask me.

And good luck with the SJW.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Hmmm I took 600mg (2 tablets) of SJW before IVing ~1mg bupe. I don't really feel anything, I'll give it another shot though. No more suboxone for today or tomorrow for me so I can get the level in my system down.

 

[Zilla da Thrilla]

I just read the first post on this thread and it says the nasal bioavailability of bupe is 50% and the sublingual bioavailability is 30%. I'm not on bupe now but I was for a couple months at the beginning of the year but the clinic I went to always said it was most effective sublingually. I'm now sure they were lying so people wouldn't use it in any way aside from how its prescribed. Was my clinic just full of schemers or has anyone else had their doc say this to them.
You guys are talking about Saint Johns Wort right?

 

[Oxymorphone]

I just read the first post on this thread and it says the nasal bioavailability of bupe is 50% and the sublingual bioavailability is 30%. I'm not on bupe now but I was for a couple months at the beginning of the year but the clinic I went to always said it was most effective sublingually. I'm now sure they were lying so people wouldn't use it in any way aside from how its prescribed. Was my clinic just full of schemers or has anyone else had their doc say this to them.
You guys are talking about Saint Johns Wort right?

Generally doctors don't tell their patients to crush up and snort or IV their meds. They also are probably misinformed and buy into the whole "naloxone prevents IV and insuflation abuse" thing which is marketing BS. Yeah we are talking about Saint John's Wort.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I just read the first post on this thread and it says the nasal bioavailability of bupe is 50% and the sublingual bioavailability is 30%. I'm not on bupe now but I was for a couple months at the beginning of the year but the clinic I went to always said it was most effective sublingually. I'm now sure they were lying so people wouldn't use it in any way aside from how its prescribed. Was my clinic just full of schemers or has anyone else had their doc say this to them.
You guys are talking about Saint Johns Wort right?

The reason why taking Suboxone sublingually is said to be the most efficient is because of the long duration. Any other ROA (snorting or IV) will shorten the duration to one degree or another.

This is believable IMO because I preferred to snort heroin because it lasted a lot longer that way.

 

[Oxymorphone]

The reason why taking Suboxone sublingually is said to be the most efficient is because of the long duration. Any other ROA (snorting or IV) will shorten the duration to one degree or another.

This is believable IMO because I preferred to snort heroin because it lasted a lot longer that way.

Do you know how much IV lessens the duration/half life compared to sublingual?

 

[Zilla da Thrilla]

aahhh... that makes sense. so even though it takes about 10-15 minutes to dissolve an 8 under your tongue, if i remember right, if you did an 8 nasally the same 8mgs would be in and out of your system quicker even though there isn't a time release?
I agree with you about snorting H lasting longer. I would usually snort before work and during lunch so I could function and if I wanted to get a serious nod on I'd do some IV at home.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Do you know how much IV lessens the duration/half life compared to sublingual?

I can switch from bupe to another opiate to bupe again within half a day, or less (I have never had precipitated WD). The half life technically stays the same (I have been told - I forgot who told me that though) but the duration of the drug's effect is that short.

 

[Oxymorphone]

I can switch from bupe to another opiate to bupe again within half a day, or less (I have never had precipitated WD). The half life technically stays the same (I have been told - I forgot who told me that though) but the duration of the drug's effect is that short.

Really? That's very interesting. I wonder why it has a shorter duration if the half life is the same.

How much do you take per day? I would love to be able to use some oxy but I have a feeling I would need to wait 2 days at least and I don't think I take that much now.

 

[WickedAura]

aahhh... that makes sense. so even though it takes about 10-15 minutes to dissolve an 8 under your tongue, if i remember right, if you did an 8 nasally the same 8mgs would be in and out of your system quicker even though there isn't a time release?
I agree with you about snorting H lasting longer. I would usually snort before work and during lunch so I could function and if I wanted to get a serious nod on I'd do some IV at home.

I'm interested to know the answer to this, I want sub to last as long as possible and have read some people say that it lasts longer when snorted than orally.. or is it longer if taken orally?

 

[socio]

I would love to be able to use some oxy but I have a feeling I would need to wait 2 days at least and I don't think I take that much now.

What CH said seems generalizable. I and others I know taking low-medium doses (2mg a day, SL) can still get good bang-for-the-buck euphoria. The blockade at that level seems roughly equivalent to ordinary tolerance. Plus, it seems that if you still have enough of your previous bupe dose in you, then you can get high on full agonists, then go back to suboxone without any withdrawal, precipitated or otherwise.

I seriously think that you don't need to wait more than 24 at the levels you're talking about (I'm assuming you IV the oxy).

The "does Naloxone really do anything" issue: yes, IMO, pointless if you're just banging Suboxone.

But: one time I was so stuporous on methadone/heroin (say 100mg and/or several bags a day for a week) that I just shot up 2mg of suboxone without thinking. Of course, it instantly precipitated severe withdrawal. I assumed that it was the naloxone that did the worst -- it felt the same as being naltrexoned/narcaned at the hospital, and the worst of the precipitated wd's completely wore off after 1 hour (replaced by something like post-acute wd, lasting 1 day). I figured that was because naloxone had a short half-life. Doing it SL seems to actually cause longer precipitated withdrawal.

My thinking (later, when I could think) was that 2mg of Bupe certainly antagonized MOST of the heroin, throwing me into severe withdrawal, but that the naloxone still kicked off the rest of the H (not the Bupe). So it gave me an Ultra-Rapid detox for an hour or so...woulda been severe either way, naloxone just made it supersevere.

Or do you think it was Bupe the whole time that messed me up?

 

[Oxymorphone]

What CH said seems generalizable. I and others I know taking low-medium doses (2mg a day, SL) can still get good bang-for-the-buck euphoria. The blockade at that level seems roughly equivalent to ordinary tolerance. Plus, it seems that if you still have enough of your previous bupe dose in you, then you can get high on full agonists, then go back to suboxone without any withdrawal, precipitated or otherwise.

I seriously think that you don't need to wait more than 24 at the levels you're talking about (I'm assuming you IV the oxy).

The "does Naloxone really do anything" issue: yes, IMO, pointless if you're just banging Suboxone.

But: one time I was so stuporous on methadone/heroin (say 100mg and/or several bags a day for a week) that I just shot up 2mg of suboxone without thinking. Of course, it instantly precipitated severe withdrawal. I assumed that it was the naloxone that did the worst -- it felt the same as being naltrexoned/narcaned at the hospital, and the worst of the precipitated wd's completely wore off after 1 hour (replaced by something like post-acute wd, lasting 1 day). I figured that was because naloxone had a short half-life. Doing it SL seems to actually cause longer precipitated withdrawal.

My thinking (later, when I could think) was that 2mg of Bupe certainly antagonized MOST of the heroin, throwing me into severe withdrawal, but that the naloxone still kicked off the rest of the H (not the Bupe). So it gave me an Ultra-Rapid detox for an hour or so...woulda been severe either way, naloxone just made it supersevere.

Or do you think it was Bupe the whole time that messed me up?

Hmm I'm still unsure of if I could get high off oxy after 24 hours. Yes I IV it when I can, usually 1mg IV 2mg at most which I probably did today and then I plan to skip a day after doing that much since it is like 6mg sublingual equivalent. It has only been a week and a half since I dropped from 16 to around 2. Also the SJW did nothing for me and seemed to have a negative effect since I felt nothing IVing 1mg and .5mg doses after taking 600mg of it and usually I feel some slight relaxation and a subtle rush.

As for you precipitated WD experience, I'm sure it was 99% bupe and the naloxone had little to nothing to do with it.

Tomorrow is a no suboxone day which makes me sad, I need to discipline myself and just get on 1mg sublingual or .3mg IV per day for several days and even out my system instead of trying to mess around so much and having an erratic dosing schedule to compensate.

I will say dropping from 8-16 a day to 2 was effortless and I didn't notice a difference which is pretty cool.

 

[socio]

Hmm I'm still unsure of if I could get high off oxy after 24 hours. Yes I IV it when I can, usually 1mg IV 2mg at most which I probably did today and then I plan to skip a day after doing that much since it is like 6mg sublingual equivalent.

That makes sense. Probably 2-3 days off, or just going 2mg SL for 3-4 days, then 24-36 hours off, and I'd go for it.

Also the SJW did nothing for me and seemed to have a negative effect...

Good to know. Others have reported this too. I think te risk of negative effects seems to outweigh the possible mild-moderate benefit some report.

I will say dropping from 8-16 a day to 2 was effortless and I didn't notice a difference which is pretty cool.

My experience, too. Even sublingual. I tend to do this at the end of my script...then hope I can do something with 32mg, to no avail, and start the cycle again.

 

[Oxymorphone]

That makes sense. Probably 2-3 days off, or just going 2mg SL for 3-4 days, then 24-36 hours off, and I'd go for it.

Good to know. Others have reported this too. I think te risk of negative effects seems to outweigh the possible mild-moderate benefit some report.

My experience, too. Even sublingual. I tend to do this at the end of my script...then hope I can do something with 32mg, to no avail, and start the cycle again.

Yeah, after 3 days off the WD starts to get bad though. Taking a day off to lower the amount in my system seems to be helpful. I want to discipline myself for 5 days taking 1mg sublingual/.3 IV per day for at least 5 days after then see how I feel and what happens when I dose up.

I would advise everyone to skip the SJW it had negative effect and I think is negatively effecting benzos and ambien too while its been in my system.

Also 32mg is excessive unless you're just coming off a huge opiate addiction. My doctor keeps pushing me to go to 24 to be at a "normal" dose and I don't mind letting him prescribe me that when I stay at 2mg and under, I might as well get my money's worth.