Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[Captain.Heroin]

I think im gonna try to taper to .5 mg at a time 2-4 times daily, then do that .25 2-4 times daily for a while. That sounds like a good idea. How long would your wd be from a 2 week 1mg a day MT?

I'm not really sure. I am told the WD of buprenorphine lasts roughly 3 weeks. I haven't made it the whole way off of buprenorphine yet, however I am at a point where I experience no withdrawal symptoms (other than yawning, sneezing, slight tired feeling) and would guess that a week or two is a minimum for buprenorphine WD's to go by. They will be a lot milder than heroin WD, but it will be prolonged. Buprenorphine is a highly protein bound drug, and has a long half life.

Overall, I personally think I would feel better a week into buprenorphine WD, but I'm going to be tapering to a very, very low dose. I'm already at 0.25mg at a time (no matter what the dose, I always tried to keep the # of times a day to be 4 max) and the next step would be 0.2mg, the next would be 0.16mg. I'm not sure if I'm going to go any lower, though I might.

 

[dopiate]

I'm not really sure. I am told the WD of buprenorphine lasts roughly 3 weeks. I haven't made it the whole way off of buprenorphine yet, however I am at a point where I experience no withdrawal symptoms (other than yawning, sneezing, slight tired feeling) and would guess that a week or two is a minimum for buprenorphine WD's to go by. They will be a lot milder than heroin WD, but it will be prolonged. Buprenorphine is a highly protein bound drug, and has a long half life.

Overall, I personally think I would feel better a week into buprenorphine WD, but I'm going to be tapering to a very, very low dose. I'm already at 0.25mg at a time (no matter what the dose, I always tried to keep the # of times a day to be 4 max) and the next step would be 0.2mg, the next would be 0.16mg. I'm not sure if I'm going to go any lower, though I might.

I'm curious to know how you're planning to drop down from 0.25mg to 0.2mg. As far as i know you prepare each shot individually(although split in two right?), so you think you can accurately measure out 0.4mg?

If you want to go lower when tapering (i'm planning on going down <0.1mg), i would get yourself a sterile vial and make a solution. This way you could dose a single unit if you wanted to, this could theoretically be infinitesimally small.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'm curious to know how you're planning to drop down from 0.25mg to 0.2mg. As far as i know you prepare each shot individually(although split in two right?), so you think you can accurately measure out 0.4mg?

Just as easily as splitting 2mg pills into 0.5mg doses:

2mg / 4 piles = 0.5mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.25mg each
2mg / 5 piles = 0.4mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.2mg each

I'll list some more math for further tapering, just in case you're on the road.

2mg / 10 piles = 0.2mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.1mg each
2mg / 16 piles = 0.125mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.0625mg each

If you want to go lower when tapering (i'm planning on going down <0.1mg), i would get yourself a sterile vial and make a solution. This way you could dose a single unit if you wanted to, this could theoretically be infinitesimally small.

Yeah, ideally I am going to end up doing this. I hope to get some micron filters in the (hopefully not to far from now) near future, and I also want to order some sterile vials, etc. I'll visit the SEP and get the luer locks as well.

I just need $ and time first, which are both going to take me time.

Ideally, I want to be able to dissolve 8mg into 4 CC, to make a solution which is 2mg/mL, which ends up to be 0.02mg/unit. This way, a 10 unit shot makes for 0.2mg (my next ideal tapering dose).

This would be most convenient for me.

I just have a few Q's dopiate. How long have you been doing this with the vial, etc? If I ensure everything's sterile, is this a pretty steady method and I should be OK to use this?

Do I have to store the vial in the fridge? How long does the solution last?

If I prep 4CC (8mg) every time, I plan it will last me at least 5 days. Will it last 5 days? Should I prep less?

 

[Eight0Eight]

Can you not get 0.2/0.4mg Suboxone?

Breaking up doses that small must be a pain.

At the moment, I'm on the "Temgesic"s 0.2mg tablets.

I shoot 2 in the morning and one at night. I wake up in mild WD everyday (right now in fact - its 5.40am in the UK!) its not THAT uncomfortable, just stops me sleeping through to 8.30 when the pharmacy opens.

 

[dopiate]

Can you not get 0.2/0.4mg Suboxone?

Breaking up doses that small must be a pain.

At the moment, I'm on the "Temgesic"s 0.2mg tablets.

I shoot 2 in the morning and one at night. I wake up in mild WD everyday (right now in fact - its 5.40am in the UK!) its not THAT uncomfortable, just stops me sleeping through to 8.30 when the pharmacy opens.

The only buprenorphine formulations available for treatment of opioid addiction are 2mg/8mg Subutex and 2mg/8mg Suboxone.

I find that suboxone is easier to break up into doses due to its hexagonal shape but i don't mess with that anymore, i micron filter 30ml's of subutex solution once every 25-30 days and just draw out whatever dose i want, it's like i get prescribed buprenex

It also makes it much easier to taper, all i do is pull out 1 unit less each day and by the end of the week i've dropped 0.1mg. I don't even notice it

 

[Eight0Eight]

Its weird. It turns out that my clinic (all clinics) in the UK aren't lisensed to perscribe the 0.2mg tab's for addiction - yet they still do.

 

[dopiate]

Just as easily as splitting 2mg pills into 0.5mg doses:

2mg / 4 piles = 0.5mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.25mg each
2mg / 5 piles = 0.4mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.2mg each

I'll list some more math for further tapering, just in case you're on the road.

2mg / 10 piles = 0.2mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.1mg each
2mg / 16 piles = 0.125mg/pile -> split between 2 people = 0.0625mg each



Yeah, ideally I am going to end up doing this. I hope to get some micron filters in the (hopefully not to far from now) near future, and I also want to order some sterile vials, etc. I'll visit the SEP and get the luer locks as well.

I just need $ and time first, which are both going to take me time.

Ideally, I want to be able to dissolve 8mg into 4 CC, to make a solution which is 2mg/mL, which ends up to be 0.02mg/unit. This way, a 10 unit shot makes for 0.2mg (my next ideal tapering dose).

This would be most convenient for me.

I just have a few Q's dopiate. How long have you been doing this with the vial, etc? If I ensure everything's sterile, is this a pretty steady method and I should be OK to use this?

Do I have to store the vial in the fridge? How long does the solution last?

If I prep 4CC (8mg) every time, I plan it will last me at least 5 days. Will it last 5 days? Should I prep less?

I didn't see this post, i figured you had 8mg tabs and not 2mg's.

About the vial prep routine.

I've been doing this for 2 months now and it's worked flawlessly without consequence.

I do not keep the solution refrigerated and haven't had any problems. The most i've kept a solution is 15 days and I just recently started preparing 30cc's of a 2mg/ml solution which should last me 30+ days.

You should have no problem prepping even more than 4cc's in my opinion, a shot on day 1 feels the same as it does on day 15 (buprenex is an aqueous solution). I've found no information stating the buprenorphine is unstable in h20. I prep 3x10cc's with a 10cc syringe and filter it into a 30cc vial.

I use the Whatman GD/X micron filters and they seem to work the best, even with a heavy particulate solution like 2mg/ml.

I also got all my supplies from researchsupply.net for pretty cheap other than they use UPS (boooo!!). If you plan on using this for a while i highly reccommend you order everything you need at once, shipping is pretty much the same no matter the quantity.

I also have 30ml/10ml/5ml vials for various uses like travel and such.

I really believe this is even more safe and efficient than micron filtering each shot separately. I figure it costs me about ~$8 per month for supplies and potentially less once i go back to school and in proximity of an SEP.

Let me know if you have more questions.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The only buprenorphine formulations available for treatment of opioid addiction are 2mg/8mg Subutex and 2mg/8mg Suboxone.

I find that suboxone is easier to break up into doses due to its hexagonal shape but i don't mess with that anymore, i micron filter 30ml's of subutex solution once every 25-30 days and just draw out whatever dose i want, it's like i get prescribed buprenex

It also makes it much easier to taper, all i do is pull out 1 unit less each day and by the end of the week i've dropped 0.1mg. I don't even notice it

i know you're in the USA but i just wanted to clear up that in Europe they have temgesic formulation which are 0.2 and 0.4mg pill which are used in addiction treatment and for pain management. i don't know why the US hasnt implemented these into the programs available because as has been stated it can be difficult for some people to split the 2mg tabs into smaller doses in order to taper down as little as possible at a time.

in australia we had temgesics available until a few years ago when they got scraped. i'm not sure why exactly they got scraped but i found it extremely inconvenient for myself when i was on transdermal bupe for pain and wanted an alternative bupe formulation because of an allergic reaction to the patches.

I get high off of Buprenorphine. It's a very nice high, too.

me too. i can use a reasonably decent amount of morphine (80-100mg IV) and oxy (80mg+ IV or oral) and be just as happy with a dose of 2-4mg of bupe. while i do enjoy the bupe high i would take morphine or oxy over it anytime of the day. i do find the bupe high kind of dissipates rather quickly though, especially when injected but it still lasts longer than IV oxy

 

[Eight0Eight]

^Do sub doctors in the US generally try and get you to jump off at the 2mg/day mark ?

Also do you have an opiate addiction? Captain H is the only person I've ever heard of that gets high from shooting bupe (and was already addicted).

 

[Jabberwocky]

i'm not too sure how they work the system over there but from what i have heard from other people and read of their experiences that the patient can generally take control of how they want to taper off, at what rate etc. if you wanted to jump off at 2mg then you can and if you want to taper further down to 1.5 down to 1 to .5 etc etc then you (should) have the right. take capt h for example again, he usually uses 3-4 doses of .25mg/day. if you've got a controlling dr and have no other options and are knowlingly going to be forced of at 2mg/day it would be in your own interest to get a headstart on that taper which would able you to gather your own stockpile of pills for when the line is cut off.

do i have an addiction? unfortunately yes although it isn't anything compared to a lot of people here on BL. im 23 and have been a pain management patient since 18 and i am currently on fentanyl patches. i use a lot of OTC codeine, tramadol, methadone every now and then, morphine when i can get my hands on it and have just found a new solid hook for oxy which i havent had for a few years

 

[Eight0Eight]

I'm going to taper all the way down to 0.1mg/day.

I know for a fact that if I jump off and get proper WD, I be straight back on smack. I'm a pussy with WD. I figured tapering down that low should minimise the chances of that.

Also need to stay clean for my naltexone implant.

Yeah, I got into gear through legit pain pill scripts at an early age. It sucks, eh?

 

[Jabberwocky]

good for you man, best of luck with it

you're still going to get the wd's from jumping off the bupe but in reality they're going to be like piss ants in comparison to a large dope habit. don't go screwing all that commitment and agonisingly hard work you've put into getting on and then off the bupe only to fall back on the wagon with heroin, you're better than that. think of how disappointed you and everyone around you would be as well. you're only going to have to get clean anyway in order to get your implant so sooner or later you're going to have to bite the bullet and put up with 1 or 2 weeks of physical discomfort so why not do it right the first time?

hell, i would do anything to be in your shoes. i've been trying to get onto a subutex program here for fucking months with no luck at the moment. my town lacks most all the essential resources and facilities for junkies like me who actually want to get on maintenance.

I got into gear through legit pain pill scripts at an early age. It sucks, eh?

it sure does, but i'd have found opiates one way or another eventually

 

[dopiate]

^Do sub doctors in the US generally try and get you to jump off at the 2mg/day mark ?

Also do you have an opiate addiction? Captain H is the only person I've ever heard of that gets high from shooting bupe (and was already addicted).

My doctor is really lax in how he prescribes my buprenorhpine.

If i told him tomorrow that i would feel better on 32mg then he would believe me.

He also believes that bupe w/d is almost non-existent and im sure would just say to jump off at 2mg. But he's severely misinformed.

I take subutex for opioid addiction and i get high. My newest schedule is similar to CH's, i'm taking 0.4mgx4 daily IV.

I get a nice little high for 2 hours and the next 2 i just feel normal.

This is not a full agonist high where i'm floating on a cloud but its a definite opiate high that makes me content for most of the day.

I don't know you personally 808 but i would recommend trying to stay clean after you're off bupe on your own and going to meetings before you jump ahead an get the naltrexone implant.

I can't imagine anything worse than having my feel-good receptors blocked 24/7, even from natural endorphins. Especially when going to school, which you will be right?

 

[soundsystem00]

Finally quitting suboxone

I decided about two months ago that I am going to quit suboxone. I didn't really like my doctor and her requirements, not to mention she was very expensive. I got a final
"farewell" supply of thirty, and ive made them last until about now. Now, I have a few tiny chunks left. I have just been snorting tiny bumps to keep me halfway unsick for the past week. I'm starting to get horrible stomach cramps and bowel problems. I have done some research but I would like to hear someones experience on suboxone withdrawl.. Since suboxone has a long half life, am I looking at a long time of withdrawl?

I heard immodium can help, should I get some of that? If so, how much should I get and how long should I take it? I am going back to college in a week so I definitely do not want to be withdrawing and running to the bathroom every 5 minutes in class! I have actually never experienced an opiate withdraw before so I don't have an idea of what to expect.

I know that I have been sharing suboxone with a close friend for several months now, and I recently cut him off because I was so low.. He is experiencing some withdraws. Mainly problems with sleeping and general opiate cravings. Also he gets a lot of headaches.

Well, Thanks for reading my post. Hope someone can help me.

pce!

 

[EnYAY]

Its not as sharp as regular opiate withdrawal say from OXY or HEROIN. but its mild and much longer. For example if regular WD was to last 3-5 days. Suboxone WD lasted me 6-8 days. with the real shitty feeling starting about the 2nd day.

Its much easier than regular opiate WD so long as you have weened yourself down.

there are mixed reviews about Imodium, but it cant hurt.

I RECOMMEND A BENZO (like xanax) to sleep and for the RLS.

good luck. YOU CAN DO IT!!!

 

[PinK~cloud]

i'm scared to death of quitting suboxone

 

[xdefeatsy]

I know for me I was on Suboxone for about 15 months. I started at 16mg/day and jumped off at 1mg/day. Unfortunately that stuff is expensive. Given those circumstances I felt a kind of mild withdrawal for about 7-8 days after my last dose. It gave me really unbearable headaches and insomnia for days 2-4. Occasionally some nausea and stomach cramps. Just loaded up on Excedrin, Ginger Ale, and Mylanta to ride it out. Days 5-6 it started to taper off to the point where I could at least function. Days 7 and 8 it was more of a psychological thing, a lot of cravings.

If you have access to some benzos I would use them at your discretion. In my experience they help to ease the process.

Just don't do like me and send yourself into a 6-month heroin relapse 2 weeks after getting off the stuff

 

[Jabberwocky]

check out the bupe mega thread, im merging this in there for your convenience. everything you want to hear has been said and repeated in the first 2 versions as well as the current thread.

 

[Eight0Eight]

Just don't do like me and send yourself into a 6-month heroin relapse 2 weeks after getting off the stuff

I'm going to be so pissed off if I do that.

Hopefully I get enough benzos to last out any WD.

 

[CocksuckerNJ]

hey, i'm going to see a doctor tomorrow for suboxone treatment. is he going to give me an option of what i want? like suboxone, subutex or buprenex. or do they just give you suboxone all the time?