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SSRI's and Ecstasy: The Final Word (Hopefully)
- Thread starter NYTFLY
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underscore_omega
Bluelighter
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- Jul 2, 2000
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sumguy, there is a new study out of canada that came out at the end of March detailing the effects of moderate usage involving tests measuring cognitive function.
I only read the abstract, but from what I could derive, it seemed that they were dancing around the fact that taking 150mg of MDMA once a month did not affect cognitive function in the areas of immediate recall; this where most of these studies target to reach their conclusion.
Still, this is not assert that taking MDMA in anyway is harmless, only that there seems to be a vague threashold as to when neurotoxic damage occurs based on frequency of use.
I only read the abstract, but from what I could derive, it seemed that they were dancing around the fact that taking 150mg of MDMA once a month did not affect cognitive function in the areas of immediate recall; this where most of these studies target to reach their conclusion.
Still, this is not assert that taking MDMA in anyway is harmless, only that there seems to be a vague threashold as to when neurotoxic damage occurs based on frequency of use.
underscore,
thanks for the thoughtful response. do you have a link to this info/study? i'd like to read it.
I just started using X, after tons of research ... and I use it VERY moderately (for me it's been ONCE every 6 weeks or so) and I would like to get as much data as possible on this level of usage. I realize frequent chronic use leads to problems, but it's much less clear if there's any proven negative effect on people who use it like I do.
Anyone else?
Thanks again, underscore.
PS. Forgive me for multiple posts, if any -- the server keeps timing out
thanks for the thoughtful response. do you have a link to this info/study? i'd like to read it.
I just started using X, after tons of research ... and I use it VERY moderately (for me it's been ONCE every 6 weeks or so) and I would like to get as much data as possible on this level of usage. I realize frequent chronic use leads to problems, but it's much less clear if there's any proven negative effect on people who use it like I do.
Anyone else?
Thanks again, underscore.
PS. Forgive me for multiple posts, if any -- the server keeps timing out
Jollyrancher
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 28, 1999
- Messages
- 73
WoW
Can I print this out and give it to my SSRI friends who roll.
Are Paxil & Celexa the same as prozac?
Thanks all
[This message has been edited by Jollyrancher (edited 26 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Jollyrancher (edited 26 June 2001).]
Can I print this out and give it to my SSRI friends who roll.
Are Paxil & Celexa the same as prozac?
Thanks all
[This message has been edited by Jollyrancher (edited 26 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Jollyrancher (edited 26 June 2001).]
Coreo*~
Bluelighter
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- Sep 14, 2000
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- 1,450
Ok, can someone explain to this poor unedumacated girl in plain english a question I have involving Paxil?
My doctor gave me Paxil to sample for one month to see if it would help with my anxiety. I have discontinued use 2 weeks ago.
My question is, if anyone knows, if I decide to roll next weekend how might it affect me?
A simple "it will suck or it might be ok or don't do it period," will do me justice.
Thanks a bunch for your input. And personal experiences would also be appreciated. And please explain any medical mumbo jumbo in words I can understand, as I am quite unintelligent when it comes to that kind of stuff. Thank you for your help everyone.
Coreo
My doctor gave me Paxil to sample for one month to see if it would help with my anxiety. I have discontinued use 2 weeks ago.
My question is, if anyone knows, if I decide to roll next weekend how might it affect me?
A simple "it will suck or it might be ok or don't do it period," will do me justice.
Coreo
SpeedLimit55
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2000
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- 2,499
Hi Coreo.
Your experience will be fine. I don't think you'll notice any diminished or otherwise altered effects.
Did it help with your anxiety?
If you were suffering *acute* anxiety attacks, I'm willing to bet it didn't. KEEP at your doctor...it took me almost a year and a half but I *finally* have a LEGIT script for .5mg Xanax...of course I don't REALLY need it but thats beside the point.
Anywho, I'm sure you know how to pre/post load, so you may want to use that Paxil for something useful.
In short, yes, your roll will be fine.
Your experience will be fine. I don't think you'll notice any diminished or otherwise altered effects.
Did it help with your anxiety?
If you were suffering *acute* anxiety attacks, I'm willing to bet it didn't. KEEP at your doctor...it took me almost a year and a half but I *finally* have a LEGIT script for .5mg Xanax...of course I don't REALLY need it but thats beside the point.
Anywho, I'm sure you know how to pre/post load, so you may want to use that Paxil for something useful.
In short, yes, your roll will be fine.
MERLIN_the_Wizard
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7
hey sumGuy this one´s for you...
based on all the info here and stuff i read elsewhere and a few books and personal experience, you are SAFE with regards to your frequency of use. I am assuming that you take only one pill when you roll.
My understanding is this:
1)it takes your brain 2 to 3 weeks to fully replenish your serotonin levels. Read the slide show at dancesafe, it may give you some concrete figures to play with. And it´s prety cool too. http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/
2)Usually one pill DOES have enough MDMA -depending on quality- to drain your serotonin from the storage, but doeas not cause serious neurotoxicity.
3)If you took more pills = more MDMA, then you would drain your serotonin and have more MDMA left over to cause more neurotox...
Now, since you said you do it every 6 weeks or so, then your brain should have full reserves of serotonin each time you roll... and hoping that you do one pill each time, you are not causing damage anywhere near that of chronic users...
So you´re pretty much safe as far as frequency and dosages go.
Just don´t make other mistakes, like not taking breaks, or sculling 2L of water and mixing things which don´t go together... ok?
ok buddy cheers,
d.s.
based on all the info here and stuff i read elsewhere and a few books and personal experience, you are SAFE with regards to your frequency of use. I am assuming that you take only one pill when you roll.
My understanding is this:
1)it takes your brain 2 to 3 weeks to fully replenish your serotonin levels. Read the slide show at dancesafe, it may give you some concrete figures to play with. And it´s prety cool too. http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/
2)Usually one pill DOES have enough MDMA -depending on quality- to drain your serotonin from the storage, but doeas not cause serious neurotoxicity.
3)If you took more pills = more MDMA, then you would drain your serotonin and have more MDMA left over to cause more neurotox...
Now, since you said you do it every 6 weeks or so, then your brain should have full reserves of serotonin each time you roll... and hoping that you do one pill each time, you are not causing damage anywhere near that of chronic users...
So you´re pretty much safe as far as frequency and dosages go.
Just don´t make other mistakes, like not taking breaks, or sculling 2L of water and mixing things which don´t go together... ok?
ok buddy cheers,
d.s.
zorn
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2001
- Messages
- 5,636
Merlin--
I sure as hell hope that occasional MDMA use doesn't cause noticable neurotoxicity, but I don't believe the evidence is as certain as you think. First off, MDMA neurotoxicity (as discussed above) is not simply a result of depleted serotonin levels. Nobody's quite sure exactly what happens, but something gets metabolized to a nasty oxidizing radical which screws up your cells. This type of damage could easily be cumulative.
It's also true that most studies have only really shown damage in heavy users. But that's partially because until recently, no one knew what kind of damage to look for; and also because the authors were typically aiming to demonstrate damage, not to ascertain what level is required for damage. Hopefully, more studies will address casual use in the future. It also remains a *very real* worry that noticable damage from MDMA-induced neurotoxicity might only become apparent with increasing age and the natural decline of brain systems.
My main worries stem from the fact that a known single neurotoxic oral dose in a monkey is 5mg/kg. Using standard interspecies scaling (weight_ratio^0.7), this is 1.4mg/kg in a 70kg human. Using the rat dose, we get 1.7mg/kg. Eg, for a ~150 lb person, we would have a neurotoxic single dose of 98 to 119mg, pretty much what's usually in one pill of E.
So put simply, extrapolating from the animal data, doing one pill of E will damage your brain.
On the other hand, studies in humans seem to show a more or less linear relation between total MDMA and impairment; and extrapolating (roughly!), one pill would cause the loss of 0.1% of the relevant serotonin receptors -- hardly noticable.
Of course, there may be more subtle damage not shown by this measure (technically 5-HIAA binding site density). And remember that there's usually individual variance in such things; some people may be far more susceptible to damage than others.
Anyways, on the bright side, no one's been able to show any real-world, testable, mental impairment from doing one or even a number of pills of E, at least not immediately, so you're (in my non-expert opinion) not gonna notice a thing unless you seriously abuse it. Still, I wouldn't feel too safe about it. If you're going to do it, it's probably a good idea to eat right, stock up on some good ol' vitamin C, and skip the big line of tweak that night.
I sure as hell hope that occasional MDMA use doesn't cause noticable neurotoxicity, but I don't believe the evidence is as certain as you think. First off, MDMA neurotoxicity (as discussed above) is not simply a result of depleted serotonin levels. Nobody's quite sure exactly what happens, but something gets metabolized to a nasty oxidizing radical which screws up your cells. This type of damage could easily be cumulative.
It's also true that most studies have only really shown damage in heavy users. But that's partially because until recently, no one knew what kind of damage to look for; and also because the authors were typically aiming to demonstrate damage, not to ascertain what level is required for damage. Hopefully, more studies will address casual use in the future. It also remains a *very real* worry that noticable damage from MDMA-induced neurotoxicity might only become apparent with increasing age and the natural decline of brain systems.
My main worries stem from the fact that a known single neurotoxic oral dose in a monkey is 5mg/kg. Using standard interspecies scaling (weight_ratio^0.7), this is 1.4mg/kg in a 70kg human. Using the rat dose, we get 1.7mg/kg. Eg, for a ~150 lb person, we would have a neurotoxic single dose of 98 to 119mg, pretty much what's usually in one pill of E.
So put simply, extrapolating from the animal data, doing one pill of E will damage your brain.
On the other hand, studies in humans seem to show a more or less linear relation between total MDMA and impairment; and extrapolating (roughly!), one pill would cause the loss of 0.1% of the relevant serotonin receptors -- hardly noticable.
Of course, there may be more subtle damage not shown by this measure (technically 5-HIAA binding site density). And remember that there's usually individual variance in such things; some people may be far more susceptible to damage than others.
Anyways, on the bright side, no one's been able to show any real-world, testable, mental impairment from doing one or even a number of pills of E, at least not immediately, so you're (in my non-expert opinion) not gonna notice a thing unless you seriously abuse it. Still, I wouldn't feel too safe about it. If you're going to do it, it's probably a good idea to eat right, stock up on some good ol' vitamin C, and skip the big line of tweak that night.
Ernestrome
Bluelighter
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- Sep 3, 2003
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I like this thread very much, but i do not understand why it lives here and not in ED, or is not merged with the Antidepressant and MDMA FAQ?
Shouldn't MDMA specific info be located in the ED forum so it is easier to find?
Shouldn't MDMA specific info be located in the ED forum so it is easier to find?
Young Trippa
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- Joined
- Nov 27, 2006
- Messages
- 20
I'm in the process of quitting an SSRI. I feel like my brain's been electrocuted. I'm in a shitty mood. I want to be able to do street drugs and SSRI's just don't fit into my schedule.
Ive been on 20mg of cipramil (citalopram) for about 3 months. havn't rolled for 3 months.
i stopped taking it this week so i can roll for NYE
hopefull the fact that it was a pretty low dosage means that i will be able to roll, and i won't be unable to roll for a month like the original post suggested.
im taking it for anxiety, which to be honest isn't much of a problem (easy to say when your on mediaction for it i guess)
but i do feel like they helped a bit. i feel it's sort of retrained my brain and my thought processes. made me be more realistic. well this probably has more to do with a book i was made to read. but who's to know
im also going to roll on NYD, so that could be interesting. or not
time will tell. but i plan on taking the SSRI after i roll (hopefully) on NYD, and should probably keep taking it for at least a week because i really am playing around with my seratonin levels here aren't i. hmmmm
i stopped taking it this week so i can roll for NYE
hopefull the fact that it was a pretty low dosage means that i will be able to roll, and i won't be unable to roll for a month like the original post suggested.
im taking it for anxiety, which to be honest isn't much of a problem (easy to say when your on mediaction for it i guess)
but i do feel like they helped a bit. i feel it's sort of retrained my brain and my thought processes. made me be more realistic. well this probably has more to do with a book i was made to read. but who's to know
im also going to roll on NYD, so that could be interesting. or not
time will tell. but i plan on taking the SSRI after i roll (hopefully) on NYD, and should probably keep taking it for at least a week because i really am playing around with my seratonin levels here aren't i. hmmmm
BOTTOMBUM
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 42
Paxil And Ecstasy
8( I HAVE BEEN ON PAXIL FOR 4 YEARS AND I THOUGHT I WAS JUST GETTING BAD PILLS. MY HUSBAND ALWAYS SEEMED TO BE ENJOYING HIMSELF MORE THAN ME. I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS DOING! I AM VERY UPSET BUT WOULD NEVER STOP TAKING MY PAXIL JUST FOR E. I AM ONLY ON 10mg A DAY, BUT STILL THE EFFECT OF ECSTASY IS REALLY REDUCED. WHEN I FIRST STARTED ROLLING WE DID IT EVERY WEEKEND. AFTER 18MNTHS WE STOPPED AND THATS WHEN DEPRESSION HIT LIKE A VENGANCE. I WAS REALLY BAD!!! I BELIEVE IT WAS THE PILLS THAT CAUSED THE DEPRESSION IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE ONLY GO ROLLING ABOUT TWICE A YEAR NOW. DO YOU THINK IF I DROPPED TWO PILLS AT ONCE INSTEAD OF ONE I WOULD GET A BETTER HIT?
8( I HAVE BEEN ON PAXIL FOR 4 YEARS AND I THOUGHT I WAS JUST GETTING BAD PILLS. MY HUSBAND ALWAYS SEEMED TO BE ENJOYING HIMSELF MORE THAN ME. I HAD NO IDEA THIS WAS MY ANTIDEPRESSANTS DOING! I AM VERY UPSET BUT WOULD NEVER STOP TAKING MY PAXIL JUST FOR E. I AM ONLY ON 10mg A DAY, BUT STILL THE EFFECT OF ECSTASY IS REALLY REDUCED. WHEN I FIRST STARTED ROLLING WE DID IT EVERY WEEKEND. AFTER 18MNTHS WE STOPPED AND THATS WHEN DEPRESSION HIT LIKE A VENGANCE. I WAS REALLY BAD!!! I BELIEVE IT WAS THE PILLS THAT CAUSED THE DEPRESSION IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE ONLY GO ROLLING ABOUT TWICE A YEAR NOW. DO YOU THINK IF I DROPPED TWO PILLS AT ONCE INSTEAD OF ONE I WOULD GET A BETTER HIT?
dbailey11
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- Jan 29, 2007
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If you're depressed and need to take medication for it, then don't do E. It's very simple. But E is for simpleminded people who prefer fake chemically induced "happiness" over real peace and satisfaction. I may be more than a little self-righteous here but people need to grow up and stop playing with things that they KNOW aren't good for them but like morons do it anyway.
Last edited:
dbailey11
Bluelighter
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- Jan 29, 2007
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I was having a delusion that I had some ground to stand on. Take E and then on the comedown take a double dose of an SSRI(your choice of course). Wait about ten minutes and there will be a huge internal light shining outward on everything you look at. This really IS your brain on drugs. Welcome to serotonin syndrome land. Enjoy the sound of your synapses popping like pop rocks in soda on a hot summer day. Sorry, the two don't mix well and you are dumb if you do it.
ChemicalSmiles
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what about wellbutrin, I hear that it is the one antidepressant that you can use MDMA with and it work to its full effects. Is this true? And if not how long should I wait.....? Thanks! :D
ChemicalSmiles
Ex-Bluelighter
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PLEASE HELP ME im trying to roll in less than a month and I just finished tapering off the medicine.
madfersupernova
Greenlighter
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- Oct 23, 2005
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Thankyou so much for this thread, I've been getting so worried since starting on Sertraline (Zoloft) as well as Epilim a few months ago! It's been ruining my rolls, and I would really appreciate any advice or help, because to be honest I don't think the Sertraline is helping that much, but I am prepared to stay on the Epilim (it's a mood stabilizer as well as an anti-epileptic) so I am thinking of weaning myself off the SSRI and perhaps just sticking with the Epilim. Will I ever be able to roll like I used to? I miss it so much!