Smoking Speed (Base/Crystal)

[footscrazy]

right.

i'm the uneducated fool who can't tell the difference between a crystallised form of methamphetamine and its various other forms?
okay. sure 8) 8) 8)

so that's why! you get completely different effects from the two separate drugs.

if someone gave me a baggie with shards and MSM crushed up together and told me it was louie, i'm pretty sure i'd be able to identify it as not being what i asked for.
even that thread states that the purer form of the two can produce far more intense & possibly adverse effects. anyway - whatever. this has nothing to do with this thread. i'll continue on into my own hopelessly deluded oblivion, shall i

Well you've got it right in your first sentence - yes, 'ice' is crystallised methamphetamine and what people call 'speed' is another form of methamphetamine - an extremely diluted (cut) form of it.
Most 'speed' on the streets of Melb has a purity of 5-15%. Very low.

I too used to get really different effects from 'louie' and 'ice'. I used to find smoking speed much more energising, with the hyper, energetic effects, than smoking ice, which I generally found very relaxing - it was a drug to sit on the couch all night on, not to get up and do things. For me, I found that this was because ice was that much more intense. Small and large doses of the same drug can have very different effects - I know this isn't a good analogy - but think of ketamine. Same drug - but a very different experience at a large dose than a small bump.

Look, I too use the terms speed and ice as if they're different drugs - they're sold at different prices, they look different, but this is just a good way to differentiate between the (generally) cut and the less cut forms of methamphetamine - I know they're the same drug.

 

[hyroller]

Well you've got it right in your first sentence - yes, 'ice' is crystallised methamphetamine and what people call 'speed' is another form of methamphetamine - an extremely diluted (cut) form of it.
Most 'speed' on the streets of Melb has a purity of 5-15%. Very low.

I too used to get really different effects from 'louie' and 'ice'. I used to find smoking speed much more energising, with the hyper, energetic effects, than smoking ice, which I generally found very relaxing - it was a drug to sit on the couch all night on, not to get up and do things. For me, I found that this was because ice was that much more intense. Small and large doses of the same drug can have very different effects - I know this isn't a good analogy - but think of ketamine. Same drug - but a very different experience at a large dose than a small bump.

Look, I too use the terms speed and ice as if they're different drugs - they're sold at different prices, they look different, but this is just a good way to differentiate between the (generally) cut and the less cut forms of methamphetamine - I know they're the same drug.

fair enough to them both being methylated. i understand this.
but someone tell me.. why the highest grade speed i have ever IV'ed and the highest grade ice i have ever IV'ed were so goddamn different in effects?
speed = all over instantaneous glowing body buzz...and clean at that...
ice = mind-blowingly intense psychoactive spazz-a-rama...and oh so horribly dirty when your brain gets flooded by the chems triggered to be released...

even now when i smoke either of the two, i get a negligible comedown from speed but ice will make me feel ratshit for at least 2 days.

sigh. oh well. moving right along.

 

[Crankinit]

Chemically, there's no real reason for it, unless there's another active cutter involved. The only difference should be the purity of the product, so anything outside of variation in the doseage is probably a psychosomatic effect or just an overarching trend in the quality of 'speed' v. ice in your location.

 

[phase_dancer]

There are a few confused people contributing towards this thread. Where do we start....

Crystal vs Powder, which is pure?

Firstly, pure methamphetamine is crystalline but not necessarily crystal. Grind up crystals, and they'll end up as a powder. The purity doesn't change, just the form. In powder form, this pure meth can and has been sold as speed, altough it's probably not very common. Using the melting point test, MP should be virtually the same for both forms although the MP range may be slightly different, so if in doubt, check!

Freebase Meth

As for freebase meth. I'd think it highly unlikely it is available on the street. Firstly, it is quite a strong alkali (pka - 9.9) so it would be very nasty to ingest. The hydrochloric salt on the other hand is water soluble and acidic by nature, meaning it will be absorbed well by the muscous membranes and in the duodenum. If smoked though, freebase would be fairly well absorbed.

Another reason freebase meth is unlikely to be seen on the streets is because the quantity is very small for a given amount. A gram of the hydrochloride salt will equate to around 0.8mls of the freebase. Also, as fb meth is a corrosive alkali it would be far more difficult to handle than the salt. What often passes for fb meth is "base", the slang term used for impure speed. If the product is indeed freebase, it should not dry out at room temps. If it's heated it should all evaporate. If it's "base" as in the impure salt form, it should dry out if left open to the air on a day with low humidity to a crusty solid. Alternatively it can be dried on a plate sat on table lamp with continual monitoring.

Smoke vs Oral - Insufflated

When comparing highs of various forms or batches of meth, you need only consider two things; Route of administration and dosage. When smoking, relatively large amounts reach the brain very quickly and naturally produce a fast and somewhat different high to say eating or insufflating. It's been mentioned earlier in this thread that eating results in first pass metabolism. Some of the speed will be metabolised into an active compound (hydroxylated) and this will of course produce variations in the effects. A main reason the high fades so fast from smoking is largely because it is metabolised relatively quickly.

Amphetamine vs Methamphetamine

As mentioned here and elsewhere, most speed etc available on the streets until recently has been methamphetamine. However, if the ketone route is employed, then there's every reason to expect more amphetamine might be available. This is because, whern reducing pseudo to make meth, the (methyl) amine is already attached to the molecule. The ketone route however, requires that the amine be "attached" and as the amine for making amphetamine is far easier to obtain for most people, it's quite likely some P2P is/ could be used to produce amphetamine.


Note to the Original Poster


There have been some warnings given here regarding the use of meth/speed etc. I will echo these warnings. Meth is an incredibly morish substance and it can easily lead to regular (daily) use. Please understand well the dangers associated with meth, particularly the possibly permanant brain changes resulting from regular use, before deciding to get into it.

This has been written in haste. I'd suggest to everyone to read the "My Nana..." thread and if there's something not clear, bump that thread and we'll attempt to tackle any questions.

 

[claire22]

Just a q phase dancer; does it cause permanent brain changes?
I've been a daily user for 7 or so yrs - how likely would it be that i've caused irreversible damage?
Everyone has told me it will revert within a few months/yrs ? Sorry to hijack the thread but that scared the shit out of me

 

[nikki09]

^^i dunno the answer to that but my guess is yes =( daily use for 7 years would have definately caused some sort of damage i would imagine, thats along time to be putting chemicals into your body on a daily basis.
Im wondering what the outcome was for blah blah?? Did you do it? How was the experience??

 

[phase_dancer]

To some degree it probably depends on your age and how long you've used. I read a report from a few years ago where brains from deceased ex users were examined and compared to controls. I've searched high and low for the paper and the thread on which I posted that info, but to no avail. From memory, almost all previous users had lower levels of dopamine, DAT and VMAT2 in specific areas such as the caudate-putamen. Iirc, older users who had abstained for over ten years were still deficient.

Sorry to scare you claire 22, particularly as I can't locate the paper to back up these statements. There's lots about neurotoxicity and meth online, so perhaps it's worth your while checking further.

These links might give some insight, but I'd also recommend reading other stuff found via pubmed (try search terms: "methamphetamine abstinence dopamine".


Reduced striatal dopamine transporter density in abstinent methamphetamine and methcathinone users: evidence from positron emission tomography studies with [11C]WIN-35,428.


Persistent cognitive and dopamine transporter deficits in abstinent methamphetamine users.

Anecdotally, in regards to several longterm users I knew aged 40+ who all gave up meth around the same time; most agree it took over a year to feel their normal energy levels return.

 

[belarki]

Just a q phase dancer; does it cause permanent brain changes?
I've been a daily user for 7 or so yrs - how likely would it be that i've caused irreversible damage?
Everyone has told me it will revert within a few months/yrs ? Sorry to hijack the thread but that scared the shit out of me

Um I don't want to alarm you claire but you might want to do a google search on "methamphetamine neurotoxicity", maybe throw in the words "reversible" and "irreversible" too? Read anything that pops up in a peer reviewed medical journal (that you can access without subscribing). In the meantime you might want to check out this thread for tips on minimising toxicity:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=375207

The human body is amazing at adapting and healing though. I'm sure cutting down, eating and sleeping healthily and exercising will all help

Edit: pd beat me to it :D

 

[claire22]

To some degree it probably depends on your age and how long you've used. I read a report from a few years ago where brains from deceased ex users were examined and compared to controls. I've searched high and low for the paper and the thread on which I posted that info, but to no avail. From memory, almost all previous users had lower levels of dopamine, DAT and VMAT2 in specific areas such as the caudate-putamen. Iirc, older users who had abstained for over ten years were still deficient.

Sorry to scare you claire 22, particularly as I can't locate the paper to back up these statements. There's lots about neurotoxicity and meth online, so perhaps it's worth your while checking further.

These links might give some insight, but I'd also recommend reading other stuff found via pubmed (try search terms: "methamphetamine abstinence dopamine".


Reduced striatal dopamine transporter density in abstinent methamphetamine and methcathinone users: evidence from positron emission tomography studies with [11C]WIN-35,428.


Persistent cognitive and dopamine transporter deficits in abstinent methamphetamine users.

Anecdotally, in regards to several longterm users I knew aged 40+ who all gave up meth around the same time; most agree it took over a year to feel their normal energy levels return.

Thanks for the info. Don't worry I scared myself - I know that I did this to myself knowing the risks and someday I will have to face the music. I'm 22(well 23 in a few days) and been a user since 16, is it possibly worse as my brain maybe did not develop correctly?

 

[the_ketaman]

Dont smoke base, you will give yourself lung cancer or emphysema quicker than smoking just about anythinhg else. I know what is left in base and it aint pretty, im surprised I used to IV the stuff without a care in the world, its pretty dirty stuff.

Ice on the other hand is usually a lot cleaner and is pretty ok to smoke IMO but you gotta know how to do it which can take some practise, id either rail it or bootybump(stick a solution of shards and water up your arse with a syringe...seriously). Plugging is one of my fav methods for meth, really it feels soooo good once it kicks in. I will always love IV'ing meth the most but smoking/plgging are both too equal to choose which one is better, the smmokijng of the meth is soo fun but the feeling when you bootybump(when it kicks in not when the syringe is in your butt lol) is so euphoric, but its your first time, no matter how you do it it will be euphoic. May as well just rail it.

 

[hyroller]

Thanks for the info. Don't worry I scared myself - I know that I did this to myself knowing the risks and someday I will have to face the music. I'm 22(well 23 in a few days) and been a user since 16, is it possibly worse as my brain maybe did not develop correctly?

I suppose it would be naive to doubt the possibility of irreversible damages...although it would have been much worse had you been ingesting the drug during your developmental years of learning (early childhood - imagine that )

do you mind if i ask you what your mode of administration is?
i swear when i was a heavy smoker (ice) i could literally feel the holes in my brain beginning to burn... in fact there is probably one the size of an enormous pipe-bowl, you know, the heavy duty round fuckers than outweigh the weight of the stem

my expectation would be that your memory will be most affected, besides serotonin levels etc, in the years to come. i do however believe the brain has an ability to store information elsewhere within itself.. if you can train it... no, i have no medical basis for this belief except having to re-train myself to remember shit after the aforementioned smoking habit (the frequent pill use probably didn't help either) literally turned my head into a sieve

 

[claire22]

I smoke it.
Yeah my memory is absolutely fried, totally. I can't remember anything - even easy details like my mobile phone number, the subjects I did in high school, my grandmothers name, what I did the night before... everything...
The brain is an amazing organ and I am sure it will repair itself for the most part, but I am truly scared that I'll always be a fried bitch.

 

[hyroller]

well if you are aware of it... then you can always begin taking steps to correct it

even simple memory exercises (i found plenty of these online) are a good way to start... visual reminders, diaries etc. might sound ridiculous but oral repetition is also a good place to start (how else did the bards remember those great epic tales off by heart back in ancient times!!). there are also a few herbal 'aids' that can assist in mnemonic recall, over time. thankfully i only really smoked myself stupid for about 15 months - up until the drought began in nov. last year, and i decided it wasn't worth paying money for absolute shit - not to mention the fact that it was time for me to find better things to do with my life.. lol. so i've reverted back purely recreational use of speed/pills ONLY & it's so much less stress, i can't believe i didn't think to quit sooner... but oh well, live & learn

 

[the_ketaman]

Taking 3000mg of fish oil 3-4 times a day is great for the damage meth and MDMA can do to the brain, ive found it increases my attention span and also helps with remembering things, basically it just makes my brain work a lot better than without the fish oil.

 

[claire22]

eek sorry to hijack this thread by the way I'm done now lol went off on a bit of a tangent
I am really forgetful and lazy when it comes to taking pills (vitamins) very very lazy.

 

[Crankinit]

Taking 3000mg of fish oil 3-4 times a day is great for the damage meth and MDMA can do to the brain, ive found it increases my attention span and also helps with remembering things, basically it just makes my brain work a lot better than without the fish oil.

^ I'll second that, fish oil makes an amazing difference to my memory and concentration. Supposed to have an absurd amount of other health benefits as well.

 

[Sustanon]

Thats good we cleared all this up. To the user above u would possibly have done some damage to ur body and mind. Just with almost anything u wont really find out whats wrong until later on in ur life. Thats why i stopped roids and other stuff cos i know it could effect me in say 10-20 years time. Without ur health u dont have anything!

 

[filenet]

re fish oil/meth toxicity - there appears to be a lot of info out there claiming the benefits however dig a little deeper and most of these claims aren't backed with legit research and are just people trying to market the next best thing?

can anybody point to some research with merit?

 

[the_ketaman]

Im too lazy to look anything up but from personal experiene the fish oil does work and I know there is proof.

Also fish oil supposedly works very well for kids with ADHD who's parents are against ritalin/amphetamiones(as I would be if I had kids, they aint taking no fucking amphetamines at a young age)

If you look(sorry im not) it up im 100% sure you will find proof that omega 3 is one of the most beneficial brain foods out there.

 

[filenet]

yeah totally agree - i also can personally vouch for fish oil improving brain function! and I really hope its beneficial for toxicity issues too but I'm struggling to find solid proof