Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*

As I mentioned earlier, I think that creating any kind of corporate entity within the legal jurisdiction of the United States is suicide. With the atmosphere here, the preemption of existing laws by the Patriot Act, and the desire that the powerful pro-prohibitionist element has within the United States, doing so is just asking for trouble.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=2741056#post2741056
Invalid Usename said:
Incorporation would need to be in a neutral country which is not vulnerable with regards to US State Department intimidation.

Go to this post, and do a page search for the word "Indymedia"
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183700&r=2

Canada has just introduced laws to counter FBI investigations invoked under the Patriot Act, and protects Canadian companies and its citizens.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181607&r=12

If Bluelight was a US company, the Feds could place a court order against it, declare that it is a mater of national security, then put a gage order against its US officers, seize the log files, and take possession of the service. And then continue to operate it "as if" nothing had happened. Anyone outside of the US who violated the court order (e.g., made an announcement to the members) would be sealing the fate of the US Bluelight corporate officers.

Why would they want to do this is a subject for a different thread...
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http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=2740749#post2740749
Invalid Usename said:
Incorporating is a bigger can of worms than it may appear on the surface. The big question is where would such an incorporation occur? Bluelight is an international community.

Also, being a corporation Bluelight then becomes a legal entity, and is subject to the rules and regulations of any not-for-profit under the laws of the country upon which the corporation is held. That also opens Bluelight up to legal actions which can be applied to a legal entity.

Lets say, for example, that Bluelight ended up obtaining its not-for-profit status in the United States. It would then be obligated to respond if a court order demanding that all information about its list of members be turned over to the courts.

To further complicate things, if the Patriot Act was invoked, Bluelight could be legally gaged so that it could not announce the that there is a proceeding which is attempting to obtain membership information, and could even [I think] prevent a legal challenge from being heard in court ("national security"). It could even lead to Bluelight becoming [secretly] a possession of the courts. I leave the rest to your imagination...

This has already happened with a corporation whos servers were located in the UK and who's incorporation was within the US.

Before taking any such move, a great many issues would need to be considered.
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If we don't want the DEA to become Bluelight's "new hosting provider" then we damn well better thank about those issues. This isn't paranoia, this is based on actions which have already been taken by the United States government. :|
 
This thread seems to be going off on a bit of a tangent with glowbug's incorporation idea... which I definitely, definitely do NOT support. it just doesn't seem wise, and seems like alot of work done for nothing necessary. then again, i'm the daughter and ex-legal secretary of a lawyer so i have a very cautious mind regarding liability, etc. regardless, it doesn't seem to address what the other 10,000,000 people in this thread have asked for/suggested.

So yeah, back to earlier... viva la revolucion! keep the dialogue coming.
 
mariposa420 said:
I have formed Florida, Nevada and Delaware corporations and LLCs as a legal assistant, it's not hard to do, but if our server is physically located in the EU does that present a problem? Of course we'd have to have a registered agent in the US to accept any service and be responsible for filing annual reports. Who would want that responsibility? Not me. ;)

I would not want to see a corporate structure created except by an attorney. On one hand it is indeed a matter of filling out forms, but the potential ramifications need to be discussed, particularly in light of our subject matter, with an actual attorney- probably an EU attorney.

Maybe start a little closer to the ground with a formal business plan to support the mission statement?

This is a more complex legal issue than it appears to be on the surface. I'd like to hear xtcxtc's opinion on whether he would support proceeding in such a direction.
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The good thing about most LLCs, at least in the US, is that there's very little required in terms of annual paperwork beyond what is required by the entity's bylaws and the annual refiling of the LLC forms with the appropriate governmental agency, usually the Secretary of State here in the US. So the internal paperwork could actually be as simple as an outside auditor's annual report.

If this course of action were ever actually decided upon, BL would definitely want to retain EU counsel to research which European host country's laws were most favorable for incorporation before taking any formal action.

I wasn't necessarily advocating that the LLC/Ltd. option be considered immediately, but I wholeheartedly agree that serious consideration ought to be given right now to formulating a mid- to long-term model, encapsulating an outlook for the next 5 years at least.
 
tathra said:
^ (to dream) but then there's forums without enough mods (such as OD) and forums with NO mods (like DC), and i'm positive that former mods of such forums would love to have their positions back because the help is rather obviously needed, imo. but i do agree with you when replacements are fully capable and performing well.
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i wasnt speaking about specifics...just in general :)
 
AlphaNumeric said:
Catch has logged in in the last few hours so hopefully he's at least aware of the situation now and forming a response.

Hopefully......
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Would anyone with moderator forum access let us know if a discussion has started about this there yet?
 
There was a brief moment today where the forum was in maintenance mode, somebody must have done that.

Given all of the talk and PMs and emails I think it would be a tad next to impossible for Catch to not be aware of this discussion.
 
I think a "Bluelight Rights and Responsibilities" (because with rights come responsibilities) is a fine idea.
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I second that, something more detailed than the BULA would be a good idea.
 
m885 said:
I second that, something more detailed than the BULA would be a good idea.
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I'm glad I am not the only one who thinks so.

I'll PM you in a bit with some ideas I have... it can't be automatically labeled as liberal nutty talk if a conservative is instrumental in drafting it. ;) You down?
 
tathra said:
^ why even bother when we already know the senoir admins dont care what we think and have no respect for our suggestions or input?
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See that's not really true. I've never had a problem with the Senoir Admin staff personally. The things I ask for are done, and generally they are done in a timely manor. Although we don't chat a lot BlueAdonis and I get along well, and SLR mods are generally free to do as we choose. I've had my disagreements with some of their actions that where not directly related to me, but all in all I do believe they listen to input from a number of people.

Are they perfect? No. Have ignore some opinions or people? Yes and here are a few reasons for that.

1. SLR runs pretty smooth. BA doesn't need to tend to us very much, and therefore his attention and need to do things in our forum is pretty limited. So he lets us do what we want, because it seems to be working. Forums with more problems are going to are going to get more changes, and management. Squeaky wheels get grease, and sometimes that means changes the forum mod staff isn't going to like.

2. I don't stir up a lot of drama. Never has a Senior Admin, or another mod had to deal with one of my fights. I get things resolved with other users on my own, and I don't create fights with people. On the other hand I've had to mediate fights, and drama caused by other mods. If a mod is causing problems with users they are not doing there job. They are doing the opposite.

3. I've never indulged in some of the more fanciful conspiracy theories that are really quite insulting to the staff. As a mod nothing is more insulting than getting a PM from a user that says, "You mods are all out to get me. You repress my speech, ignore my opinions, and I think you've installed a GPS device in my ass. I'm on to you fuckers." When I get stuff like is it does affect my opinion of that user, and I'm probably not going to go out of my way to listen to them. The Senior Admins probably feel the same way when they get messages like that from mods.

Could the senior admins communicate better? Yeah, but to say

we already know the senoir admins dont care what we think and have no respect for our suggestions or input
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Is unfair.
 
I don't think i have any thing useful to add, but i think this thread should keep going as long as possible with quality posts, complaints, suggestions, and possible solutions until Catch and SD actually decide to reply to it.
 
64tf said:
Could the senior admins communicate better? Yeah, but to say


we already know the senoir admins dont care what we think and have no respect for our suggestions or input

Is unfair.
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i don't see where you have addressed tathra's point at all. he was referrining to senior admins whereas your point really only discusses admins.
 
I haven't posted in this thread...why?

I don't know what to say. I agree with manyof the old mods...and I just don't know what to say.

Honestly...I really just want to hear one of the senior admins comment.

I believe it's disrespectful of us, and ultimately really bad PR for them to have ignored this thread for so long.

Please, Brian, Walt, please give us some kind of reply.
 
You have 7 claws yourself, Sohi. You should consider yourself lucky that YOU haven't been banned yet. Do you think that you should be, considering the number that you have?

I'm shocked, honestly, that you haven't been banned yet. Perhaps you're getting some special treatment yourself.
 
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