Skydancer -- A Democratic Bluelight *see first post for link to Skydancer's response*
- Thread starter xtcxtc
- Start date
SoHiAllTheTime
Ex-Bluelighter
randycaver said:
hahaha You know nothing! Some of those dont even count cause they were given by a moderator who abussed his power (and then was banned several times after)! And the other half were from when i first started posting. Get your facts straight girl. I havent been given a CLAWS in quite some time. One that counts at least.
xtcxtc - fair enough, i will repost...though you know darn well it has to do with this thread. But for sake of not starting trouble i will remove it. Thanks for your advice.
Last edited:
Invalid Usename
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,923
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_22_(logic)
Catch 22 (logic)
Catch 22 has become a term, inspired by Joseph Heller's novel Catch-22, describing a general situation in which A must have been preceded by B, and B have must been preceded by A. Symbolically, (~B => ~A) & (~A => ~B) where either A or B must come into being first. A familiar example of this circumstance occurs in the context of job searching. In moving from school to a career, one may encounter a Catch 22 where one cannot get a job without experience, but one cannot get experience without a job. In this respect, the initial move to the job market can be very challenging.
Catch 22 (logic)
Catch 22 has become a term, inspired by Joseph Heller's novel Catch-22, describing a general situation in which A must have been preceded by B, and B have must been preceded by A. Symbolically, (~B => ~A) & (~A => ~B) where either A or B must come into being first. A familiar example of this circumstance occurs in the context of job searching. In moving from school to a career, one may encounter a Catch 22 where one cannot get a job without experience, but one cannot get experience without a job. In this respect, the initial move to the job market can be very challenging.
We can not move on from this dilemma without Catch-22's participation.
This issue was first raised by xtcxtc on Feb. 11, and it is now Feb. 17, 14 pages later and we still have not received one word from either Catch or Skydancer.
I sure hope that he is taking this seriously and not as a joke. Because quite frankly, if the latter is the case, it is not only disrespectful (as has been mentioned earlier), but it brings into question even more fundimental issues as well.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Blowmonkey
Bluelight Crew
Invalid Usename said:
I would still give it some time, if Catch has been away for a couple of days, he still has loads of e-mails and/or reports to handle (e.g. people from EDD), he still has to read through this whole thread and try to post without getting the emotions running too high, I mean, if he would respond in a similar manner as you've responded to several things that happened in support/etc (you were pretty angry IIRC), then that wouldn't help.. Would it?
Have some patience.
Invalid Usename
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,923
Was that intended to be disarming? :DBlowmonkey said:
Blowmonkey
Bluelight Crew
Did it work? 
Invalid Usename
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2004
- Messages
- 2,923
No, but I'll definitely take it into consideration. :D
j22
Bluelight Crew
CAN WE GET A RESPONSE PLEASE?!
thx
thx
SoHiAllTheTime
Ex-Bluelighter
j22, Like i said in the very beginning, without some sort of threat or reason to respond, why would they? I think the only person that can put pressure on any of them is xtcxtc. Otherwise, they will never answer. I wouldnt.
I post in a board where you NEVER EVER hear a word from the admins. Even threads like this one will get deleted.
I post in a board where you NEVER EVER hear a word from the admins. Even threads like this one will get deleted.
Spencer
Bluelight Crew
I went on and on in my previous 2 posts on the theme that Catch and Walt don't care or respect the bluelight population, but I didn't really have a whole lot of "proof" to back those claims.
Sadly, I've got the proof now.
I present to you - Their timely response to this this thread.
Sadly, I've got the proof now.
I present to you - Their timely response to this this thread.
keystroke
Bluelighter
if everyones against you or the way you're currently operating a forum, I'd be hesitant to reply to it aswell.
but also I think that a response should indeed be posted, otherwise it's really a big slap in the face to everyone that actively contributes to the board.
but also I think that a response should indeed be posted, otherwise it's really a big slap in the face to everyone that actively contributes to the board.
Re: Shitstorm!
You do yourself down. Yes, others *could* do what you do, but they aren't. You've put a lot of effort into this site. Your voice deserves to be heard. The same thing applies to everyone who has posted here.
Have we put as much effort in as Walter or Catch-22? I know I certainly haven't, and I don't think anyone has. But our voices still deserve to be heard. And there are many many of us saying the same thing - which isn't "down with Catch-22" but "the board should be more democratic".
atlas said:
You do yourself down. Yes, others *could* do what you do, but they aren't. You've put a lot of effort into this site. Your voice deserves to be heard. The same thing applies to everyone who has posted here.
Have we put as much effort in as Walter or Catch-22? I know I certainly haven't, and I don't think anyone has. But our voices still deserve to be heard. And there are many many of us saying the same thing - which isn't "down with Catch-22" but "the board should be more democratic".
Blowmonkey
Bluelight Crew
Originally posted by Blowmonkey
I would still give it some time, if Catch has been away for a couple of days, he still has loads of e-mails and/or reports to handle (e.g. people from EDD), he still has to read through this whole thread and try to post without getting the emotions running too high..
I would still give it some time, if Catch has been away for a couple of days, he still has loads of e-mails and/or reports to handle (e.g. people from EDD), he still has to read through this whole thread and try to post without getting the emotions running too high..
Patience is a virtue. Getting upset about it really helps, yeah.
dr seuss
Bluelight Crew
indeed. i do not like the smell of witchhunts.
regardless, some really good points have been made in this thread by various valued posters.
i will post again when i've had time to read everyone's responses properly.
Blue_Lava
Bluelighter
Re: Re: Shitstorm!
I'd have to say there are quite a few. Sky might be a bit hard to top, but a number of people here were admins long before Catch even joined the board. There are certainly a lot more people here who've contributed more content (ie post count). And in terms of meet ups, numerous people have been much more active in meeting people and putting together meet up events. This isn't to belittle the contributions of Sky, or Catch. Their contributions cannot be denied. But, let's not put them up on a pedestal. Plenty of people here have invested at least as much, and more people still who have invested enough to warrant their opinions being worth something. We cannot have mob rule. But, neither is the opposite appealling.
BIWHM said:
I'd have to say there are quite a few. Sky might be a bit hard to top, but a number of people here were admins long before Catch even joined the board. There are certainly a lot more people here who've contributed more content (ie post count). And in terms of meet ups, numerous people have been much more active in meeting people and putting together meet up events. This isn't to belittle the contributions of Sky, or Catch. Their contributions cannot be denied. But, let's not put them up on a pedestal. Plenty of people here have invested at least as much, and more people still who have invested enough to warrant their opinions being worth something. We cannot have mob rule. But, neither is the opposite appealling.
Last edited:
The administrators pointed me to this thread a few days ago. My time is limited, but I will take some time to answer some generalized questions. We are in contact with the administrators and work with them to have questions and problems resolved. To augment this and show some basic awareness of the situation, I will provide some of my private opinions for everybody to enjoy. Please don't mind typos, run-on sentences and unintended misinterpretations, I am freestyling this FAQ together as I type and I do not have time to read it over. In short, it will be a real skydancer rant that some old-schoolers may remember.
_______
FAQ
Q: Why can't more time be spent on communication?
The personal schedules of staff vary, but personally, I was a sophomore at university when I started working on Bluelight. At this point however, I am finishing my Masters so is either/or: Either work on the technical side of Bluelight, OR spend time posting. I definitely recognize that it pleases more people to give verbose explanations and discussion of decisions. People would have less emotional reactions and they would feel like they are a part of the solutions. But at the other hand, it is clear that a level of communication from a few years slows down development and management of the site to a great deal, while not improving the long time state. To steal a quote, "When I have a 40 hour/week job, I am willing to spend 6 hour/week on communication. When I do a 6 hour/week job, I will spend it working." I agree with this.
I am not distancing myself from my choices in the past. Time was free back then. Recognizing that my (and Catch's) time is limited we have always tried to create new positions where this would distribute responsibility and workload. The distribution of "power" to goodwilling and well-trained people has always been a focus and this is working. We can safely stay away from the forums and just work on our projects without Bluelight collapsing. This is an accomplishment and not a flaw in our approach. A few years back I had to spend one to three hours a day talking to people about Bluelight. Just talking! Nothing significant happened, though it made people happy to talk to me. Almost all these people are now gone, but the tangible work that we do is still remaining.
Q: Why are you ruining Bluelight?
If one thing becomes apparent from this thread is that the definition of "ruining Bluelight" is different for everybody. It seems to me that some people in this thread equate their own emotional well-being with Bluelight's goals and I dismiss that immediately. Now to address the generalized feeling of Bluelight being less emotionally attractive. In the past years, Bluelight has grown from an instable community plagued by in-fighting, paranoia, ad hoc management, staff engaging in covert abuse, and constant technical issues, to a large, stable and open site. Much time was spent on staff issues, and few time was spent on actually working on the site. There was a complete standstill during the period that people are now mistakenly homesick about. And back then, the site was very small compared to today's numbers, so it should have been much more fluid than it is now. We had how many, 10 admins and 100 staff members? But many important areas were completely ignored and new registrations (a good KPI) and visits were going down for a long time. Yes, Bluelight was shrinking fast. What more proof is needed that the situation was unacceptable to everyone except a small few?
Honestly, the site was in complete atrophy and would not have survived without major changes, even though it may have been a very cozy place to the small number of people who were in the "incrowd". I can appreciate conservatism, but I do not recognize the image of that old and golden Bluelight. New registrations have skyrocketed in the past years because the forums are more clear and more attractive to posters. It is a technical success as well as a community success. Simply browse some of the drug forums, compare it to an old archive, and see how the amount of information and harm reduction has improved. Catch has started and personally executed a lot of projects that hardly anybody wanted to help with. These projects were hard work and were worth it; they simply would not have happened if we would have let it continue. What is worse, many people have promised to do work, we depended and waited on them, and they have let us down. You do not hear much about this because unlike our adversaries we do not thrive on flaming people. Srsly, they can live their lives in peace. It is all about harm reduction and increasing the reach and effectiveness of this effort. More people served means a job well done. More people reading about harm reduction means a job well done. A healthy reduction of staff means less conflicts, more experience in the staff, et cetera. It is not unusual to feel bad about added structure and professionality, but you have to recognize that ideally you are here primarily for the mission and not for having fun. It would be more "fun" for us to behave in a populist way, not change anything that some people would feel hurt about, not request people to deliver the work that they promise, and frolick in Lounge all day. This would be a completely problem-free path for us personally, but not for Bluelight, so it is not an option!
As for staff posting requirements: if this hurts emotions, this is too bad, but that is the cost of raising the bar. And the bar had to be raised (see above). The system is fair and extremely clear. It is very simple to keep to the requested post counts and there are channels for senior staff to excuse staff from the requirement for valid reasons. Respect for the staff means that we want to be proud of the staff and this means that we hold the staff to a certain workload requirement. Back in the day, it meant nothing to be a Bluelight moderator. Anybody with a few friends up there was a moderator. Forums had more moderators than posts in a day. Today, being a moderator means that you have a real accomplishment. It means you have been selected because we thought you had great skill and it means you are still on the job because you HAVE that skill. But, when the server goes to shit it is my problem, and if you don't moderate your forum it is your problem. In any case, specific staff demotions are not an issue that matters to the general public (they generally want active mods) and they will DEFINITELY not matter in two years from now. We are moving forward, and I reject the suggestions that we are asleep at the wheel. To the contrary, there is a detailed multi-year plan in place to improve Bluelight. This plan has been created and matched with Bluelight's mission statement. Most of the stages of this plan have been executed (but there is more work to do). People are dying because of misinformation and we try to work towards harm minimization in what we do. Yes, OBVIOUSLY for you it is a bit like work! For us it IS work.
Last issue in this Q: It is silly of people to request that we create leisure posts. Moderators must post so I do not have to. I work on the technical side so moderators do not have to. Catch plans and executes difficult harm reduction projects and staff management because other people do not WANT to. This is how Bluelight works. If staff feel they cannot identify with this policy, they should step down because there are always many more people who want to be a moderator. If you are against anger and negativity on Bluelight, you should take YOUR responsibility and act selflessly to work against it.
Q: Why not try some democracy?
There has never been a "people's democracy" at Bluelight, so people are not reasonable in saying that it would be better. There is no evidence of that. The moderators have never been required to follow the majority vote in their decisions. Never has a moderator been dismissed because people voted against them in a forum poll - moderators can decide situations and make policy on merit. The same goes for administrators and senior administrators. On tactical decisions, such as staffing issues, we generally ask administrators for comments and adapt plans if there are reasonable problems. (We shield the senior staff and take the heat from the public for decisions that have been decided by committee, and that is fine with us!)
The past has shown that there simply is no added value in asking more people for advice, meaning: decisions don't get better when I see 50 suggestions instead of 5. Instead, it bogs things down, because people make crazy demands and the discussions create conflicts of interest for the staff: at one hand, they want to remain liked in a social setting, at the other hand they need to make unpopular decisions such as demoting an abusive staff member or changing a running forum which makes the inhabitants angry. More often than not these decisions pay off in the end but they are hard to make. There have been some limited experiments with polls and advice rounds in the past with mixed results. At the same time, throughout the period I have worked, reasonable input has always been considered. But I agree with the "idiot mob" quote: most people simply aren't up to date, are emotional and make poor suggestions, and most importantly: almost everyone is completely and utterly unwilling to do the work involved. I am sorry to say, but I can safely say that a small team of experts, in this case the Administrators, are our best advisors on these issues. However, it is absolutely normal that moderators sometimes dismiss user opinions, that senior moderators dismiss moderator opinions, that senior admins dismiss admin opinions, that donators dismiss senior admin opinions, et cetera. And I am still thinking this is healthy, because throughout the years the general opinion has become that we are the #1 forum in our topic and I am positive that Bluelight will stay on track.
Q: Why not create a formal organization?
The reasons to decide against this have already been made in this thread by other posters. The created liability can be a problem. We have discussed this at length with attorneys in different countries. For legal reasons, it is in Bluelight's interests to not incorporate and keep the structure undefined. Also, it is unclear that the creation of a corporate framework would solve any of Bluelight's challenges. We create longevity and stability by making Bluelight operate effectively in terms of manpower and in terms of finances.
Q: skydancer stepped on my toes in 1999! / Catch renamed my favorite forum in 2001! / I was unfairly demoted in 2002! / etc.
Decisions have always been made to the best of our knowledge and abilities. Summaries have been provided at the time to anyone who needed to know and there are no reasons to revise any of the decisions mentioned. Although others in this thread commented on us emotionally, misrepresented our actions and statements, and posted private information, I will not do the same because I do not take delight in badmouthing people. On a large scale, these comments about specific cases are indeed irrelevant.
Q: Well, clearly there is a situation right here. What are you going to do?
We are in discussion with the Administrators and we will work with them to analyze their complaints and react to it appropriately. Out of personal time restrictions, I haven't had any time to engage in a debate yet but they have asked me some specific questions and I will answer them. As said earlier, there is simply no time for me personally to explain everything and calm every bit of emotion that is displayed on the board. But I will work together with the senior staff and they will bring forward all the reasonable suggestions and concerns that they have. I am afraid ultimately you will have to put some trust in this. Also, it must be noted much (not all) of the complaints are specific to people's emotional reactions to Catch-22 and me because of specific actions that we have taken. We will not be around forever and so it is not important to create a popularity campaign for ourselves. But, we are NOT going anywhere right now and we are not surrendering to threats of civil disobedience nor withdrawal of funding. As for negativity: If people feel that negativity harms Bluelight, I might agree with them because it is tiresome to read it. If people feel that terrorist attacks have harmed the USA, that is valid. But the leaders of an effort are not at fault for the emotions and the distorted truths put forward by rebels in reaction to the policy. Yes, it can very well be that a decision incites anger or ill will and it still may be the best decision. Every situation will continue to be decided on merit. And we will continue to take decisions even if they make us unpopular in the eyes of some.
As for more concrete details on my choice of time management for Bluelight: during summer, involvement was low for health and work reasons. In the past months, most of my time was spent on technical issues for the spinoff of Pillreports to their own management. At this point, we are spending a lot of time on carrying our site to the next version of vBulletin. The final upgrade will be a big operation somewhere in the very near future. Again, anyone can debate, but only a few people are willing to do this job, so we will continue to do our jobs and I leave the debate to you.
It is silly that people say we are "missing in action". Two days ago, I have worked eight hours on the upgrade. Catch has worked ten hours or more this week. We do not shout it from the rooftops, just because we are not hungry for recognition. If people make false conclusions: that's life.
Q: What if you get run over by a bus?
Everything is in place, there is no secret knowledge to running Bluelight, and it can be handed over to the new management in a proper fashion. At this point, we are the primary sources of hard production in terms of new projects, but we are optimistic that we have streamlined Bluelight and made it very effective for new management to implement their changes or start new projects.
Q: Hey, leaving already without answering my personal complaint? Why is this guy not staying in this thread like we do? Is he better than us? He must hate freedom!
I should actively participate in a generalized "flame the admins" thread, densely populated by disgruntled ex-staff? What are people thinking? Hello, they are EX for a reason! Is it better for Bluelight when I debate with people who Photoshop silly pictures of me and my co-workers when they do not get their way? Some of the people in this thread I have had on ignore for years because they are worthless trolls and I can only see when people quote them. Srsly, I could care less about many posters. At the same time I am sorry to the genuine people in here who have valid questions and interesting suggestions that I have not responded to, because there are some very insightful comments and I take my hat off. Your input got diluted, though good suggestions have been made. Also personally, thanks to the people that have shown some support, and thanks to those who do not support our personal approach but still believe in the mission of Bluelight and continue to work towards that. And of course, thanks to the silent majority which keeps showing support for Bluelight by visiting it each day
Q: Why the abrupt ending to this post?
Procrastinating, I exceeded the time I wanted to spend on it and now I have spent 140 minutes! 140 minutes that, in my opinion, have not benefited Bluelight in the long run and 140 minutes that will be quickly forgotten. Hopefully this reply shows some of my perspectives. It is not my plan to iron out each and every wrinkle and I am sure some of the adversaries will continue their campaigns, badmouthing, populism, rehashing of old stories, rosecolored tales of a beautiful past, et cetera. I am not personally affected by trolling after five years of working on online communities, but to the other readers: IMHO you should judge all posts on merit and their insights for a future Bluelight. Any sensible further replies and suggestions will surely be read by administrators and taken into consideration.
Cheers!
sd
_______
FAQ
Q: Why can't more time be spent on communication?
The personal schedules of staff vary, but personally, I was a sophomore at university when I started working on Bluelight. At this point however, I am finishing my Masters so is either/or: Either work on the technical side of Bluelight, OR spend time posting. I definitely recognize that it pleases more people to give verbose explanations and discussion of decisions. People would have less emotional reactions and they would feel like they are a part of the solutions. But at the other hand, it is clear that a level of communication from a few years slows down development and management of the site to a great deal, while not improving the long time state. To steal a quote, "When I have a 40 hour/week job, I am willing to spend 6 hour/week on communication. When I do a 6 hour/week job, I will spend it working." I agree with this.
I am not distancing myself from my choices in the past. Time was free back then. Recognizing that my (and Catch's) time is limited we have always tried to create new positions where this would distribute responsibility and workload. The distribution of "power" to goodwilling and well-trained people has always been a focus and this is working. We can safely stay away from the forums and just work on our projects without Bluelight collapsing. This is an accomplishment and not a flaw in our approach. A few years back I had to spend one to three hours a day talking to people about Bluelight. Just talking! Nothing significant happened, though it made people happy to talk to me. Almost all these people are now gone, but the tangible work that we do is still remaining.
Q: Why are you ruining Bluelight?
If one thing becomes apparent from this thread is that the definition of "ruining Bluelight" is different for everybody. It seems to me that some people in this thread equate their own emotional well-being with Bluelight's goals and I dismiss that immediately. Now to address the generalized feeling of Bluelight being less emotionally attractive. In the past years, Bluelight has grown from an instable community plagued by in-fighting, paranoia, ad hoc management, staff engaging in covert abuse, and constant technical issues, to a large, stable and open site. Much time was spent on staff issues, and few time was spent on actually working on the site. There was a complete standstill during the period that people are now mistakenly homesick about. And back then, the site was very small compared to today's numbers, so it should have been much more fluid than it is now. We had how many, 10 admins and 100 staff members? But many important areas were completely ignored and new registrations (a good KPI) and visits were going down for a long time. Yes, Bluelight was shrinking fast. What more proof is needed that the situation was unacceptable to everyone except a small few?
Honestly, the site was in complete atrophy and would not have survived without major changes, even though it may have been a very cozy place to the small number of people who were in the "incrowd". I can appreciate conservatism, but I do not recognize the image of that old and golden Bluelight. New registrations have skyrocketed in the past years because the forums are more clear and more attractive to posters. It is a technical success as well as a community success. Simply browse some of the drug forums, compare it to an old archive, and see how the amount of information and harm reduction has improved. Catch has started and personally executed a lot of projects that hardly anybody wanted to help with. These projects were hard work and were worth it; they simply would not have happened if we would have let it continue. What is worse, many people have promised to do work, we depended and waited on them, and they have let us down. You do not hear much about this because unlike our adversaries we do not thrive on flaming people. Srsly, they can live their lives in peace. It is all about harm reduction and increasing the reach and effectiveness of this effort. More people served means a job well done. More people reading about harm reduction means a job well done. A healthy reduction of staff means less conflicts, more experience in the staff, et cetera. It is not unusual to feel bad about added structure and professionality, but you have to recognize that ideally you are here primarily for the mission and not for having fun. It would be more "fun" for us to behave in a populist way, not change anything that some people would feel hurt about, not request people to deliver the work that they promise, and frolick in Lounge all day. This would be a completely problem-free path for us personally, but not for Bluelight, so it is not an option!
As for staff posting requirements: if this hurts emotions, this is too bad, but that is the cost of raising the bar. And the bar had to be raised (see above). The system is fair and extremely clear. It is very simple to keep to the requested post counts and there are channels for senior staff to excuse staff from the requirement for valid reasons. Respect for the staff means that we want to be proud of the staff and this means that we hold the staff to a certain workload requirement. Back in the day, it meant nothing to be a Bluelight moderator. Anybody with a few friends up there was a moderator. Forums had more moderators than posts in a day. Today, being a moderator means that you have a real accomplishment. It means you have been selected because we thought you had great skill and it means you are still on the job because you HAVE that skill. But, when the server goes to shit it is my problem, and if you don't moderate your forum it is your problem. In any case, specific staff demotions are not an issue that matters to the general public (they generally want active mods) and they will DEFINITELY not matter in two years from now. We are moving forward, and I reject the suggestions that we are asleep at the wheel. To the contrary, there is a detailed multi-year plan in place to improve Bluelight. This plan has been created and matched with Bluelight's mission statement. Most of the stages of this plan have been executed (but there is more work to do). People are dying because of misinformation and we try to work towards harm minimization in what we do. Yes, OBVIOUSLY for you it is a bit like work! For us it IS work.
Last issue in this Q: It is silly of people to request that we create leisure posts. Moderators must post so I do not have to. I work on the technical side so moderators do not have to. Catch plans and executes difficult harm reduction projects and staff management because other people do not WANT to. This is how Bluelight works. If staff feel they cannot identify with this policy, they should step down because there are always many more people who want to be a moderator. If you are against anger and negativity on Bluelight, you should take YOUR responsibility and act selflessly to work against it.
Q: Why not try some democracy?
There has never been a "people's democracy" at Bluelight, so people are not reasonable in saying that it would be better. There is no evidence of that. The moderators have never been required to follow the majority vote in their decisions. Never has a moderator been dismissed because people voted against them in a forum poll - moderators can decide situations and make policy on merit. The same goes for administrators and senior administrators. On tactical decisions, such as staffing issues, we generally ask administrators for comments and adapt plans if there are reasonable problems. (We shield the senior staff and take the heat from the public for decisions that have been decided by committee, and that is fine with us!)
The past has shown that there simply is no added value in asking more people for advice, meaning: decisions don't get better when I see 50 suggestions instead of 5. Instead, it bogs things down, because people make crazy demands and the discussions create conflicts of interest for the staff: at one hand, they want to remain liked in a social setting, at the other hand they need to make unpopular decisions such as demoting an abusive staff member or changing a running forum which makes the inhabitants angry. More often than not these decisions pay off in the end but they are hard to make. There have been some limited experiments with polls and advice rounds in the past with mixed results. At the same time, throughout the period I have worked, reasonable input has always been considered. But I agree with the "idiot mob" quote: most people simply aren't up to date, are emotional and make poor suggestions, and most importantly: almost everyone is completely and utterly unwilling to do the work involved. I am sorry to say, but I can safely say that a small team of experts, in this case the Administrators, are our best advisors on these issues. However, it is absolutely normal that moderators sometimes dismiss user opinions, that senior moderators dismiss moderator opinions, that senior admins dismiss admin opinions, that donators dismiss senior admin opinions, et cetera. And I am still thinking this is healthy, because throughout the years the general opinion has become that we are the #1 forum in our topic and I am positive that Bluelight will stay on track.
Q: Why not create a formal organization?
The reasons to decide against this have already been made in this thread by other posters. The created liability can be a problem. We have discussed this at length with attorneys in different countries. For legal reasons, it is in Bluelight's interests to not incorporate and keep the structure undefined. Also, it is unclear that the creation of a corporate framework would solve any of Bluelight's challenges. We create longevity and stability by making Bluelight operate effectively in terms of manpower and in terms of finances.
Q: skydancer stepped on my toes in 1999! / Catch renamed my favorite forum in 2001! / I was unfairly demoted in 2002! / etc.
Decisions have always been made to the best of our knowledge and abilities. Summaries have been provided at the time to anyone who needed to know and there are no reasons to revise any of the decisions mentioned. Although others in this thread commented on us emotionally, misrepresented our actions and statements, and posted private information, I will not do the same because I do not take delight in badmouthing people. On a large scale, these comments about specific cases are indeed irrelevant.
Q: Well, clearly there is a situation right here. What are you going to do?
We are in discussion with the Administrators and we will work with them to analyze their complaints and react to it appropriately. Out of personal time restrictions, I haven't had any time to engage in a debate yet but they have asked me some specific questions and I will answer them. As said earlier, there is simply no time for me personally to explain everything and calm every bit of emotion that is displayed on the board. But I will work together with the senior staff and they will bring forward all the reasonable suggestions and concerns that they have. I am afraid ultimately you will have to put some trust in this. Also, it must be noted much (not all) of the complaints are specific to people's emotional reactions to Catch-22 and me because of specific actions that we have taken. We will not be around forever and so it is not important to create a popularity campaign for ourselves. But, we are NOT going anywhere right now and we are not surrendering to threats of civil disobedience nor withdrawal of funding. As for negativity: If people feel that negativity harms Bluelight, I might agree with them because it is tiresome to read it. If people feel that terrorist attacks have harmed the USA, that is valid. But the leaders of an effort are not at fault for the emotions and the distorted truths put forward by rebels in reaction to the policy. Yes, it can very well be that a decision incites anger or ill will and it still may be the best decision. Every situation will continue to be decided on merit. And we will continue to take decisions even if they make us unpopular in the eyes of some.
As for more concrete details on my choice of time management for Bluelight: during summer, involvement was low for health and work reasons. In the past months, most of my time was spent on technical issues for the spinoff of Pillreports to their own management. At this point, we are spending a lot of time on carrying our site to the next version of vBulletin. The final upgrade will be a big operation somewhere in the very near future. Again, anyone can debate, but only a few people are willing to do this job, so we will continue to do our jobs and I leave the debate to you.
It is silly that people say we are "missing in action". Two days ago, I have worked eight hours on the upgrade. Catch has worked ten hours or more this week. We do not shout it from the rooftops, just because we are not hungry for recognition. If people make false conclusions: that's life.
Q: What if you get run over by a bus?
Everything is in place, there is no secret knowledge to running Bluelight, and it can be handed over to the new management in a proper fashion. At this point, we are the primary sources of hard production in terms of new projects, but we are optimistic that we have streamlined Bluelight and made it very effective for new management to implement their changes or start new projects.
Q: Hey, leaving already without answering my personal complaint? Why is this guy not staying in this thread like we do? Is he better than us? He must hate freedom!
I should actively participate in a generalized "flame the admins" thread, densely populated by disgruntled ex-staff? What are people thinking? Hello, they are EX for a reason! Is it better for Bluelight when I debate with people who Photoshop silly pictures of me and my co-workers when they do not get their way? Some of the people in this thread I have had on ignore for years because they are worthless trolls and I can only see when people quote them. Srsly, I could care less about many posters. At the same time I am sorry to the genuine people in here who have valid questions and interesting suggestions that I have not responded to, because there are some very insightful comments and I take my hat off. Your input got diluted, though good suggestions have been made. Also personally, thanks to the people that have shown some support, and thanks to those who do not support our personal approach but still believe in the mission of Bluelight and continue to work towards that. And of course, thanks to the silent majority which keeps showing support for Bluelight by visiting it each day
Q: Why the abrupt ending to this post?
Procrastinating, I exceeded the time I wanted to spend on it and now I have spent 140 minutes! 140 minutes that, in my opinion, have not benefited Bluelight in the long run and 140 minutes that will be quickly forgotten. Hopefully this reply shows some of my perspectives. It is not my plan to iron out each and every wrinkle and I am sure some of the adversaries will continue their campaigns, badmouthing, populism, rehashing of old stories, rosecolored tales of a beautiful past, et cetera. I am not personally affected by trolling after five years of working on online communities, but to the other readers: IMHO you should judge all posts on merit and their insights for a future Bluelight. Any sensible further replies and suggestions will surely be read by administrators and taken into consideration.
Cheers!
sd