Save Nguyen Tuong Van

[chugs]

^ he wasn't a "dealer"

just a mule. Other people ultimately make/made the decision to sell the drug.

If you dada experinced adverse from taking far too much (being addicted to it) K would you blame your dealer or yourself for being stupid?

 

[Bent Mk2]

One thing I don't get - why should the Government risk its relationship with another nation by placing trade sanctions, etc on them? Imagine if Singapore wandered over and called us barbaric and demanded we change out laws...what do you think we'd all say?

 

[clop]

It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

clop

 

[stephaniesomewhere]

was thinking about this today and thought I wonder how many people would support the death penalty if they had to actually watch it...I think a lot of people would not be able to face the reality of what it actually means....

 

[Diacetylus]

It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

clop

Actually, you're the pathetic one. Who says anyone's condoning what drug dealers/mules do? I certainly don't think it's a pretty lifestyle to take up. I know I certainly wouldn't ever want to be walking that path myself.
People are fowarding disgust because of the way they are punishing him, while there are rapists and terrorists getting light sentences Van has to go and get hanged?

I don't recall anyone condoning anything at all. We're just saying, that hanging a mere drug mule is not going to solve anything. The drug warlords are still walking free and will always go on about their business.

But, looking at it from the perspective from a person that uses drugs, I assume that you use drugs (as I would estimate at least 85% of bluelight's site do) you're going along and saying it's fine that those who courier your drug into this country deserve to get hanged (whether that be MDMA, Heroin, Cocaine or Meth), but you are fuelling the demand and giving the people that employ these couriers more of an incentive keep on manafacturing illicit drugs.

In the end, if it was anyone over there, they don't deserve to get hanged. and even before it was an Australian, people all over the world have always thought of the death sentence to be a barbaric act.

Taking another person's life for a crime (especially as minor as this one) is morally unjust, and noone in the world, no matter who they are or where they are has no right to play God and take the life of another person. No matter what they did.

 

[Jimity]

It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

clop

Without trying to get back into this debate, I want to make one point.

I think a lot of people are getting up in arms over this because he is being hung for drug offences. In the US, all the people on death row are there because they killed someone at some point. Other then treason, I cant think of any non-homicide crimes that are capital in the US. Granted a few of those people will be innocent, and the death penalty shouldnt be used anyway, but its use for drug offences is far worse then its use for murders. People are always yelling about the use of the death penalty, but people scream louder when it gets used for offences like Nguyen's.



And on that, I will retreat back into Switzerland on the issue.

 

[peaked]

I've seen it stated numerous times that many of the replies opposing to Van's execution are based solely on an emotional response to the fact that he is Australian, and was guilty of an act many of us condone.

I think this view is entirely unfounded, with absolutely no evidence to back up the claim. I feel just as strongly against every execution in the US (and any other country that supports capital punishment) as I do for Nguyen in this situation, regardless of the crime the person has committed. There's no threads in this section of the forum which would discuss such things however, given that this is part of the forums is for discussion of drugs for Australians, so I dont see how anyone can come to the conclusion that those who are opposed to Van's execution aren't also opposed to other examples of capital punishment. Infact, I feel just as strongly about any death of a living creature as I do for the execution of a human, which is why I choose to be vegetarian.

You are pathetic.

If supporting my view for something I feel strongly about makes me pathetic then so be it.

 

[chugs]

It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

clop

Why should it matter why we don't want Van to die as long as he doesn't die?

If you want the entire world to agree with your belief on why Van shouldn't die then your going to be waiting a long long time (talking about the end of time here) before everyone is swayed to your point of view.

Just take support for Van as it comes not as you think it should (although if facist Nazis jumped on the bandwagon i would be a little upset).

i'm sure many of the people against Van from dying would also be of the belief that capital punishment is wrong and should be abolitioned.

That said i try and avoid US made goods & services (as much as I avoid Chinese and other countries that wantonly kill humans). really limits what you can purchase, pretty much it's New Zealand & Icelandic goods & products *hmmm pickled herring.

 

[electreauxbella]

It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

clop

Well said!

 

[electreauxbella]

Why should it matter why we don't want Van to die as long as he doesn't die?

If you want the entire world to agree with your belief on why Van shouldn't die then your going to be waiting a long long time (talking about the end of time here) before everyone is swayed to your point of view.

Just take support for Van as it comes not as you think it should (although if facist Nazis jumped on the bandwagon i would be a little upset).

i'm sure many of the people against Van from dying would also be of the belief that capital punishment is wrong and should be abolitioned.

That said i try and avoid US made goods & services (as much as I avoid Chinese and other countries that wantonly kill humans). really limits what you can purchase, pretty much it's New Zealand & Icelandic goods & products *hmmm pickled herring.

It's not about the whole world agreeing, because the world will never agree on anything as serious as this issue.

The point is, these laws were in place long before this crime was committed.

Everyone in the world knows that trafficking drugs is illegal and carries harsh penalties if you are caught, it's just that some countries take a more serious stance on this issue than others. It doesn't detract from the fact that what Tuong did was illegal and he is now paying the ultimate price for his stupidity. Whatever his motoviation or reasoning for commiting this crime, it was stupid.

I think that a lot of you need to realise that Toung did the wrong thing and is now being punished according to Singaporian Laws . Don't let your bleeding hearts get in the way of the issue at hand.

No country in the world can dictate to another that it's laws are wrong, just because we feel that they are too harsh.

 

[plazma]

No country in the world can dictate to another that it's laws are wrong, just because we feel that they are too harsh.

electreauxbella you are so wrong I'm kind of puzzled, I feel like I MUST have missed some key point which made your argument make sense.

No country in the world can dictate to another that its laws are wrong, just because WE feel they're too harsh. Okay, well its a good thing WWII didn't happen, and that the Aryanisation of the 3rd Reich is still well under way. Its a good thing that the UN was never invented and that the concept of 'Universal and Inalienable Human Rights' has never been thought up.

The reason there's a lot of focus on the death penalty as a human rights abuse in the current circumstances is because the media (which tends to direct the discussion on these issues) only takes up the baton when there's an australian awaiting the death penalty. Its still an issue for everyone who's civilised enough to give a fuck, but YOU don't read about it in the Daily Telegraph or the Herald Sun.

-plaz out-

 

[electreauxbella]

It seems that you cannot look at this subject with an objective view, as everyone else can, given your history. There is no point trying to argue with you because you are just making irrational statements and having goes at people with valid points.

If it was anyone else I don't think that you would give a fuck.

 

[KemicalBurn]

Its still an issue for everyone who's civilised enough to give a fuck, but YOU don't read about it in the Daily Telegraph or the Herald Sun.

-plaz out-

...and you've just been a paragon of civility with how youve been arguing your point in these threads?

How can you say you are such an empathetic and caring person because you dont want him to die, yet you'll treat others like dirt and resort to name-calling to virtually "beat them down" to win the argument?

You appear to be the model for the addage "judge a man by his actions, not his words".

and your actions here have been contrary to what you claim as your beliefs

 

[lynnie]

I been looking everywhere in sydney for the video barlow and chambers and found no luck at all, does anyone know the real name for this movie, i found a few names like 1)deadly decision 2)Barlow and chambers 3)A long way from home 4)dadah is death. Which is the real name for this particular video?

 

[aunty establishment]

electreauxbella - countries "inform" other countries their laws are wrong all the time. Hello, Iraq anyone? "Please change your constitution so we can access your oil and see your women's boobies" isn't the standard approach though.

P.S. Aunty says "say no to war and yes to researching before posting!"

 

[clop]

Actually, you're the pathetic one. Who says anyone's condoning what drug dealers/mules do? I certainly don't think it's a pretty lifestyle to take up. I know I certainly wouldn't ever want to be walking that path myself.
People are fowarding disgust because of the way they are punishing him, while there are rapists and terrorists getting light sentences Van has to go and get hanged?

I don't recall anyone condoning anything at all. We're just saying, that hanging a mere drug mule is not going to solve anything. The drug warlords are still walking free and will always go on about their business.

But, looking at it from the perspective from a person that uses drugs, I assume that you use drugs (as I would estimate at least 85% of bluelight's site do) you're going along and saying it's fine that those who courier your drug into this country deserve to get hanged (whether that be MDMA, Heroin, Cocaine or Meth), but you are fuelling the demand and giving the people that employ these couriers more of an incentive keep on manafacturing illicit drugs.

In the end, if it was anyone over there, they don't deserve to get hanged. and even before it was an Australian, people all over the world have always thought of the death sentence to be a barbaric act.

Taking another person's life for a crime (especially as minor as this one) is morally unjust, and noone in the world, no matter who they are or where they are has no right to play God and take the life of another person. No matter what they did.

You have completely misunderstood what I said. Did you actually read my post? I'm entirely against capital punishment, just like you. I don't think he should be executed either, but then I don't think anyone should be executed.

I'll paste it again here for you to read again: "It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

What I'm saying is that none of you gave two hoots about the thousands and thousands of people that have been executed in Singapore and the US for the last 200 years. The only reason you're all suddenly making a noise is because he is Australian. If you really cared about capital punishment you wouldn't have waited until now to voice your opinion so strongly.

And your "hanging a mere drug mule" seems to suggest that you don't think trafficking drugs is a crime for which there should be severe punishment. In my eyes that means you half-condone it.

clop

 

[clop]

I agree with your views on capital punishment, but I dont think that you can necessarily draw such strong conclusions about other peoples views. I'm sure many of the people here who are only protesting at this stage are doing so because they have only become aware of it at this stage.

I agree its shit that hundreds of Singaporians have died due to such laws but I doubt most people would have realised that this was going on. Being least generous, it would not have been at the forefront of their minds.

Is this their fault? No. Only since the issue has been highlighted in Australia, due to an Australian citizens predicament, has the issue come to peoples minds. Its not that people didnt care for the other unfortunate people, rather it was that they were unaware of the situation altogether.

Are you joking? You're telling me that nobody knew that executions take place around the world until two weeks ago? Wasn't George W Bush the governor of the US state that executed the most people during his time there? Electric chair, lethal injections, hanging, firing squad? You're honestly telling me that all the people whinging about Nguyen thought capital punishment had already been abolished?

 

[Chronik Fatigue]

You have completely misunderstood what I said. Did you actually read my post? I'm entirely against capital punishment, just like you. I don't think he should be executed either, but then I don't think anyone should be executed.

I'll paste it again here for you to read again: "It is convenient that everyone is suddenly up in arms about the death penalty in Singapore. It is because an Australian is going to die. If you, and John Howard, honestly feel as strongly about the death penalty as you're making out, why didn't you petition the Singaporean government to change its policy last year or the year before, or the year before, or the year before? Singapore frequently executes people. As do the USA and several other countries. Are you really fighting against the policy of capital punishment or are you jumping on this band-wagon because an Australian is going to be killed by an Asian country for something you half-condone. You are pathetic.

What I'm saying is that none of you gave two hoots about the thousands and thousands of people that have been executed in Singapore and the US for the last 200 years. The only reason you're all suddenly making a noise is because he is Australian. If you really cared about capital punishment you wouldn't have waited until now to voice your opinion so strongly.

With this, I agree.

And your "hanging a mere drug mule" seems to suggest that you don't think trafficking drugs is a crime for which there should be severe punishment. In my eyes that means you half-condone it.

Personally, i DO condone it and anyone on this site who doesn't is a hypocrite.

 

[eKLaB]

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics.
Even if you win, your still retarded.

 

[aunty establishment]

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics.
Even if you win, your still retarded.

Quoted for irony. There's a big difference between arguing about mindless topics and engaging in informed debate, which is democracy in its truest form. I agree that making the same points over and over is not as productive as, say, standing outside Changi with a loudspeaker (and an itch for a tour of the place too, if you did) - but it's a darn sight better than not talking about it at all because you're too ill-informed or apathetic to make a point.

This isn't directed at you personally eKLaB, I know you were probably just trying to be sassy. But it irks me when people try to stifle debate with the "talk achieves nothing" line. It's a myth. Silence is what's dangerous.

Meanwhile my folks sent me a card to take to the guy and the package was opened by the government before it was sent on. I'm going to try to get in to see him this week now I've met a close friend of his who lives here. Will report on the process. If you don't hear from me, write to the Changi Hilton