Save Nguyen Tuong Van

[mofo]

got the news .. dec 2nd he will be excuted.. i found it sad his mum got the notice in the mail.. just like a parking fine.. its singapore tho.. crazy chinkz and their laws.. i got a nice lecture about chewing gum at the airport.. fucking chewing gum.. later i found out you get 5 yrs for speeding.. like WTF!!!!

now my 2 cents.. you can say the laws are fucked all you want, but laws are laws. he was not a user.. he was a "mule " he knew the risks and he took them.. the joys of the drug trade..

-MoF0-

 

[Fry-d-]

Nguyen papal clemency bid fails
From: AAP
November 17, 2005

POPE John Paul II and his successor Pope Benedict XVI both made direct but unsuccessful appeals to Singapore to spare the life of convicted Australian drug courier Nguyen Tuong Van.

Melbourne priest Peter Norden said it appeared the appeals had fallen on deaf ears after the Singapore government today notified Nguyen's mother that her son would be executed, on December 2.
Fr Norden had written to Pope Benedict XVI asking him to seek clemency for the 25-year-old, who was caught at Changi airport in 2002 with 396 grams of heroin strapped to his body and in his hand luggage.

The priest also revealed today that he had received a reply from the Apostolic Nuncio – the Pope's Australian representative – several days ago, informing him that Pope John Paul II had appealed for clemency before he died earlier this year.

Fr Norden said Pope Benedict XVI had subsequently also appealed to the Singaporean government upon assuming the Papacy.

"For two Popes to intervene, it's making it very clear that many people in this world are opposed to taking a life," he told AAP.

But Fr Norden said while it appeared the Popes' appeals had failed, hope remained until the sentence was carried out, and Nguyen's supporters would continue their campaign to save him.
"We're deeply disappointed by this, but it's not finished yet," he said.

Fr Norden had also hoped Prime Minister John Howard could still convince the Singaporean government to save Nguyen's life during the APEC meeting in Singapore.

But this, too, appeared dashed as the execution date was announced after Mr Howard met Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong today.

Supporters of Nguyen are due to launch a public display of their Reach Out campaign at Victoria's State Library tomorrow.

Thousands of hand-shaped notes about Nguyen's case, to be presented to the Singapore government in coming days, will be displayed at the library, with a launch by Victorian Attorney-General Rob Hulls.

From news.com.au

Singapore PM apologises to Howard
From: AAP By Saffron Howden, Sandra O'Malley and Shelley Markham
November 17, 2005

SINGAPORE Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has apologised to Prime Minister John Howard for not personally informing him of the date for an Australian man's execution in Singapore.

And the Singapore Government has revealed that the letter it sent to Tuong Van Nguyen's family, informing them of his December 2 execution date, had been delivered a day earlier than planned. An investigation will be held into how this happened.
Mr Howard met Mr Lee today in South Korea and made another unsuccessful appeal for clemency for 25-year-old Nguyen Tuong Van, who is due to face the gallows at Changi prison in Singapore on December 2.

However, he did not learn until after the meeting that the Singapore government had set a date for the hanging.

The news came instead from Nguyen's lawyer in Melbourne, Lex Lasry, who said Nguyen's mother had been advised by letter of when her son would die.

Mr Lee today apologised to Mr Howard, blaming an earlier-than-intended delivery of the letter to Nguyen's family. The letter was meant to be delivered on November 18.

"PM Lee Hsien Loong has apologised to PM John Howard for not informing him of Mr Nguyen Tuong Van's execution date during their meeting this morning," Mr Lee's spokesman Chen Hwai Liang said in a statement tonight.

From news.com.au

John Howard was left a little red faced there.

 

[aunty establishment]

Oh man, on my birthday and all. I'm so pleased I won't be in Singapore on that date, that's pretty nauseating.

 

[Diacetylus]

Ok. The majority of you pricks that are saying, "Ohh, he knew the consequences, let him hang!", or "Think of all the lives the Heroin would have destroyed if it had gotten onto the shores of Australia", etc... You don't even know the whole story behind it.

I actually used to be a friend with Van's brother Khoa. Unfortunately, I never got the chance to meet Van. But, from all people that have had the pleasure of meeting him, have nothing but good to say about the guy.

It all started with Khoa's wrong decision in life to take up the illicit path of the drug trade in Heroin. His career wasn't solely exclusive to dealing smack, but was also in dealing significant quantities of ecstasy pills and Ice. Although the latter two weren't his... I guess you could call "main speciality".

Regardless of the career path he chose, he was still a decent guy that had some good qualities, he was just unfortunately misguided and tempted by the easy money to be made at a young age at dealing drugs at just below the middle of the chain in this industry. Much like alot of the seemingly harmless ecstasy dealers alot of Bluelighters might have come into contact with. Anyways, in the end a drug dealer is a drug dealer, whether it be ecstasy or Heroin... they both have the potential to destroy lives and ecstasy isn't all about "loviness" and "kandyhugs", and friendly people.

Anyways back to the original story, as I mentioned, Khoa was quite sucessfull at his little business and apparantly ran a whole "crew" on the streets of Inner Melbourne. At the time, he was maybe 19-20.. having very little to do with his brother Van, because Van didn't approve of his chosen career path. (Van at the time was studying at University and working part-time)
In-fact, Khoa was that serious about his business his runners (some of them apparantly older than him) answered to him as "Ung <something-something>" which was vietnamese for Big Uncle or something.
Khoa never touched drugs himself.

Well, he ended up getting caught by the police (as they all do) and served a pretty hefty amount of time in jail and ended up clocking up thousands upon thousands of legal fees.
Turns out, one of the syndicate members provided Khoa with the money once he got out of prison to pay back these fees, so long as Khoa go back on the streets and pay off his debts by building up a sturdy business again.

By this time, Khoa and his twin Van were maybe... 21-22ish. Both growing into young men and maturing, Khoa realised that dealing drugs wasn't going to get him anywhere and only create more troubles than solutions in the end. So, Khoa decided it wasn't a wise decision to take up his older habits of dealing drugs.
But, spiralling into an out of control depression, he ended up doing something he had never approved of himself and that was using the product he once sold.

Well, he never did get around to paying off the debt to the syndicate member for his legal fees for obvious reasons. and in the end, pretty much ended up losing everything he had, including alot of respect he had from alot of vietnamese "wannabe ganstas".

Not only was Khoa left with a sweet-tooth for smoking Heroin, but he was also stuck with a severe gambling addiction (something he was left with from his older sucessfull drug dealing days)

Anyways, later on down the track Khoa and Van and the mother were receiving threatening letters from someone in the mail and then began to get terrifying phone calls from... obviously one of the syndicate members that Khoa owed money to.
Khoa tried to get jobs in between to save for the money, but later on found out that the deadline was getting closer and closer for him to pay back the funds he owed.

Van, was then forced to sell off his legitimate business as a computer salesman and look elsewhere to find some quick cash. Before bloodshed would happen.

One day, in the city Van had come across an acquantance at a restaraunt. This guy had a proposition to offer Van... one that he couldn't refuse.
The man asked Van, "Do you like quick money? You need quick money yeh?" Van obviously was keen to take on the offer. The man said he had something important for Van to do overseas, all it was was a matter of meeting up with someone and then coming back to Australia.

Van, was later told through better detail what he was to do and who to meet by a man in Sydney (there is some speculation that the man in Sydney isfrom the same syndicate in Melbourne, the one that Khoa was indebted to)

He was given a return airfare from Sydney to I think it was Vietnam, or Cambodia(?) and told he was to meet up with some men there. and they would later on give him further instructions.
Finally over there, he met up with the men and they instructed him that he was to carry Heroin back to Australia. (although, I am certain Van had a rough idea what he was going to do from the beginning, that still doesn't excuse the desperation the poor guy would have been going through)
told if he were to back out, his family would be killed in Australia.

Yeh, it's a messy story, but he later got caught in transit with the Heroin in Singapore and the moment the lady that discovered the Heroin strapped to his back found it, he broke down. He knew exactly that what he was doing was wrong, but Van faced a situation in where do this or your loved ones will be killed. Basically the poor guy had no other choice. This sort of shit happens to mules all over the world. Family always gets threatened. I'm sure it has happened with ecstasy mules as well.

Now the poor guy has been tortured for about 3 years and is about to get hanged, because of some stupid fucked up decisions his brother made. If [just about anyone] was stuck in the same predicament where his family members live's were in danger, it wouldn't surprise me if they wouldn't go through with something as such to save his family.
and don't go giving me that shit that "Ohh, but imagine how many live's the Heroin would have killed" because, that's just bullshit. Just as is the case with ecstasy dealers, the dealers do not hold the user up at gunpoint and demand them to use the said substance.

As to this day, I haven't seen Khoa for a long time now (earlier this year we were smoking buddies) and I didn't know all the story behind it at the time, all I knew was his brother was on death row and possibly was going to get hanged sooner or later. But, Khoa just upped and disappeared and apparantly has even disappeared from his mom, because he is just reminded every second of his life the reason why his brother is going to get executed.
But, even if I did know the full story back then, I still would have given him a shoulder to cry on.
Just hope he doesn't do anything stupid to himself, because that would be the end of his mother, knowing that two of her sons no longer exist.

Anyways, if you read all that, thanks for listening. Some of it may not be 100% accurate. But, it's about as accurate you will get.All this was tld to me by very close former friends of Khoa and Van.

[Edit: Thanks for the personal story. I have removed a couple of non-essential details (locations/ad homs) which do not detract from the message. BigTrancer]

 

[THR!]

He shouldn't die. He doesn't deserve to die. It's a travesty if he does.

What a barbaric society.

 

[Fin_heaven]

I think this serves as a little reminder to all of you fellow bluelighters out there. Dont get caught up in something you have no control over. Let someone else fuck up their lives. As much as the drug laws or laws in general over in Singapore sound fucked up to us Aussies, there's clearly nothing we can do about it. If Johhny Howard, Two Popes and a host of international organisations cannot stop his execution then it shows clearly how desperate Singapore is to show its sovereignty. They make their laws, they enforce their laws and they're not going to back down.

Sorry about voicing my opinion so late in the thread but the new bluelight meant that i lost my old account and it took me this long to create a new one.

Fuck in heaven

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I have read every post, and there are some very very good points.

I guess my point of views on anything is just black and white.

He did break the law and deserves to die, he will do it again....

HOWEVER

His motives for making money to clear his brothers debts is something benevolent, and i think he should be pardoned for that.

 

[hoptis]

Diacetylus; just wanted to say thanks for posting that. However accurate the whole story is, it certainly gives a more complete picture than what people might get reading from the newspapers.

 

[[S]alvatore]

Fuck him, he wasn't forced to sell drugs.

 

[chugs]

^ did you read it salvtore, the story, why he did it?

And he wasn't SELLING drugs. He was simply trafficking them. Other people sold them

it's opinions like "fuck him" & "he deserves to die" that are so ignorant and stupid that it boggles my mind that the authors could even be apart of this community.

Seriously do you want the world to "fuck you" when you sell a few pills or a bit of whizz to mate? Do you deserve to die because you drove with some drugs in your car?

Traffiking, dealing, we all do it. Be it moving in our vehicle or moving a larger amount between two countries there is no difference. Who hasn't gotten drugs for another person. Who doesn't bring laws every day of the week, be it smoking, speeding a few KMs over the limit or moving a few kilos of heroin.

Do you feel you have the right to curtail another persons life? Why should other people be given some sort of legal sanction to nullify someones conconsciousness?

I take drugs. If i die it's my fault, not the idiot dealer, or traffiker.

If i die because i'm too stupid to know better then you could argue society has a major role in that. If i died even though knowing better then well it is still my fault.

If i rob a grandmother to buy food should we ban food. If i killed someone over an argument should we ban arguing?

It's specious to claim heroin dealers/traffikers should pay for the death of another person with their life.

Just the same way it is if one was to blame a someone who gave ectasy to someone who died from it.

It doesn't solve anything and it won't lead to a single life saved. If anything it'll just contiunally perpetuate to the drug cycle.

 

[BigTrancer]

"Traffiking, dealing, we all do it." -- If you're arguing that drugs are illegal so we're all in the same boat, however, there is clearly a large difference between purchasing drugs for personal consumption and internationally trafficking a large quantity of drugs for financial reasons. The issue being played out here is whether the sanction imposed for trafficking (ie. the death penalty) is an effective deterrent, and whether mitigating circumstances should be taken into account when sentencing (ie. how can someone prove that they were trafficking 'for a good cause' or 'under duress').

BigTrancer

 

[esprit]

It seems an unfortunate set of circumstances leading up to the arrest and even more unfortunate that the chosen country he was importing the heroin from served the death penalty for such an offense... there are always other avenues that could have been pursued, in this case to save his family/brother. Move overseas? Move interstate? The options are endless if someone wants to disappear. He took a stupid risk and now he is paying for it.

 

[chugs]

transgression is a transgression, be it large or small. I believe that it's not the context (that he did this for his mum or for profit) that should be used to judge this persons life.

We buy heroin, we buy MDMA, speed, pot and many other drugs. These drugs are made and trafficked by people who do so for a million different reasons. Some do it for profit, others do because they are under duress.

Are we not hypocrites to cast these people to the dogs when we benefit directly from drug trafficking? We revel in our drug taking, we go to great extents to obtain these drugs, yet the moment the people who obtain them for us get caught we allow them to take brunt of the punishment. Sure they get compensated for their work, and perhaps you might let that get rid of the guilt when they're sentence to 10 years hard labour (or death by hanging) but it doesn't make it right.

What's worse with this is that we argue that drugs should be legal but the moment a drug dealer/trafficker is caught we shrug our shoulders with indifference (or like some, revel in BL, revel in their punishment).

The pot I buy came from somewhere, the heroin I used to buy had to come from outside of Australia. The coke I snort, or the LSD I drink are all mainly imported into Australia. What about the MDMA. Maybe some of it was domestic but the distribution of these drugs all share similar paths. My money is used to fund activities that I would be horrified about. Your money does the same thing. Yet do you stop taking drugs? I would hate to think the person who imported the LSD I ate is spending a large portion of their life in a small 4 by 4 cell.

Maybe a exceeding small (and thus negligible) amount of people take drugs from say homegrown cannabis or sourced from a chemist however for the most part the vast majority of drug users cannot claim they are not apart of the entire mess.

It's a sickening form of denial that you hear from people, i.e. "fuck them, they should die for trafficking a kilo of heroin/speed/coke - whilst in some cases snorting a very line of said drug. If you truly think that drug traffickers are reprehensible then stop taking the drugs they import.

Sure I don't like drug dealers or traffickers but that doesn't mean they should be heavily punished for providing me with the product I desire. Yes some of these people kill and hurt others in order to get these products to me however they should be punished directly for those crimes, not indirectly by heavy sentences, or death, when they are caught with drugs in their possession.

Yes drug dealers can be misleading and deceptive, resulting in people dying from taking substances. But they should be punished just like a murderer is punished when they hit their victim with a blunt object. The weapon is not the point it's the loss of life.

In the case of poor Van on top of the duress he was under ultimately no one on this planet has any right to dictate whether someone should live or die. Even if the accused was responsible for the death of someone.

I double dare any mother fucker to stand up to the plate and claim they have a god given right to judge another person life!

Certainly a judge in Singapore doesn't

 

[BigTrancer]

Online battle to save Nguyen
By Jesse Hogan
November 21, 2005 - 4:24PM

The battle to save the life of convicted drug trafficker Nguyen Tuong Van is escalating on the internet, with a growing number of websites and blogs pressuring the Singaporean Government to grant him clemency.

One email campaign has drawn nearly 5000 responses in support of Nguyen, who is due to be executed on December 2.

That campaign, organised by Australian political activism site GetUp!, began on November 3.

A petition at stophanging.com has attracted 559 signatories, while another at foreignprisoners.com has gathered 928.

The websites urge readers to email Singaporean Government figures, including Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, and plead for Nguyen's life to be spared.

Get Up Spokesman Lachlan Harris said: "A lot of Australians living overseas have really taken advantage of the campaign, and I guess they probably feel a bit more empathy than most because of the situation of Van being in Singapore."

Visitors can directly email the Singaporean Prime Minister through the website, but are not provided with pre-written emails. Harris said this was important.

"It's one thing to sort of click a button . . . but our members have actually come to our site, have written their own emails - really thoughtful, well-argued, respectful emails. That's not an easy thing to do," he said.

Mr Harris quoted one email, from 'Toni', which read: "Van has admitted his guilt, shown remorse, and co-operated with police. Please show compassion and clemency in his case, and others, so that his mistake does not cost him his life and destroy his family."

Another, from 'Duncan', read: "Hanging couriers is not the answer. Re-educating them to work against drug distribution is an option. Turn the evil into good."

Mr Harris said GetUp! had not received any official response from the Singaporean Government regarding the email campaign, but said the group would not give up.

"We say when it comes to saving someone's life you can leave no stone unturned, and that's what our members believe."

From: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/online-battle-to-save-nguyen/2005/11/21/1132421592122.html

Nguyens leave for Singapore
November 21, 2005 - 4:36PM

The mother of condemned heroin smuggler Nguyen Tuong Van had to be physically supported by friends and their legal team as she and her other son boarded a flight to Singapore today.

Nguyen's mother Kim and twin brother Khoa flew out of Melbourne to visit the 25-year-old Melbourne man on death row before he is executed on December 2.

Ms Nguyen, red-eyed and silent, kept her head down while Khoa walked through the Qantas check-in and into customs, as supporters with them offered words of assurance.

It will be the first time Khoa has seen his brother since he was arrested almost three years ago trying to board a flight to Australia with 396 grams of heroin strapped to his body and in his hand luggage.

Nguyen says he was trafficking heroin to help pay off his brother's legal fees.

Nguyen's friends Bronwyn Lew and Kelly Ng and his Australian legal team, Lex Lasry, QC, and Julian McMahon, who escorted the family through the airport, have been fighting to convince the Singapore government to grant Nguyen clemency.

However multiple appeals by the federal government, the United Nations and international human rights organisations have proved unsuccessful.

From: http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/nguyens-leave-for-singapore/2005/11/21/1132421592809.html

URL added.

BigTrancer

 

[aunty establishment]

What a barbaric society.

On a personal level, I have to say I agree with you - but on a sociological level, I have to say, don't judge what you don't understand. I've lived here for a year now and can't begin to claim to understand Singaporean society, but if you look at the affluence its totalitarian regime has delivered to the majority versus their neighbours in the region, perhaps it'll give you some perspective on why people accept this system. Let's face it, greed drives politics.

But that's really an aside. All I have to add at this point is that if the story Nguyen has told is true, I hope Khoa carries this burden with him for the rest of his life. He has been remarkably silent (at least in the media) throughout this whole case and I'm interested to know if there's any prosecution to be directed at him.

Edit: Oh, and as a P.S. you should have heard the earful I got for expressing my sentiments about the injustice of Nguyen's execution to my fellow Australians here - even theoretically liberal ones and drug users themselves. It's amazing how people are able to dissociate themselves from a system to justify it, and I guess I'm guilty of this myself, being surrounded by it daily.

 

[BigTrancer]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/hulls-sent-to-plead-for-mercy/2005/11/22/1132421665908.html
New move by the Vic Attorney Gen to suggest a prisoner exchange program.

Also:

Twins reunite for last days
By Steve Butcher
November 23, 2005

LAUGHTER rang out on death row in Singapore's Changi prison when Nguyen Khoa saw his condemned twin brother, Van, for the first time in more than three years.

With Nguyen set to hang at dawn on Friday next week, the brothers yesterday talked happily — and noisily — in a reunion driven by the unhappiest of reasons.

With their mother Kim alongside, the boys laughed out loud, chatting continuously despite the underlying agony of their predicament.

In the meeting, which lasted little more than an hour, their mother was said to be surprised at the often "silly" topics her boys discussed so enjoyably.

"They were so happy to see each other," a close family friend said...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/twins-reunite-for-last-days/2005/11/22/1132421665917.html

Sounds like he's not holding a grudge. Although it has been a long time now.

BT

 

[esprit]

Poor kid.

 

[Bent Mk2]

No doubt this is a tragically sad story, but the undeniable truth is that it could have been avoided.

I have no doubt there's thousands, of not hundreds of thousands of people in a similar (or worse) position than Van and Khoa, and yet they haven't resorted to trafficing through countries with death penalties.

Is the death penalty just? No, absolutely not. But as it stands there's something like 3145 people on death row in America alone. Why are we not jumping up and down for them? Singapore has the highest death sentence rate per capita in the world (something like 400 hangings since 1991 alone)...why are we not jumping up and down for them?

 

[chugs]

I have no doubt there's thousands, of not hundreds of thousands of people in a similar (or worse) position than Van and Khoa, and yet they haven't resorted to trafficing through countries with death penalties.

The asking of retorical questions doesn't justify Van's death whilst putting it context to someone who has sinned far less (yet is an unjust situation) then Van still doesn't make his death right. Your talking about some silly intangible concept of personal responsiblity against the life of a human being.

Seriously you people sicken with the heartless attitude you take to life. God help us if you ever gain control, well fuck you people are in control aren't (hence the injustice in the first place)

Of course there are people who have suffering far bigger injustices and yes we don't fill a specific thread with unjust situations which aren't relevant to the thread subject. If you want to see us jumping up about other situations then simply start up a thread and we'll let lose.

 

[dada]

hang this smack dealer already