Salvia, The Conveyor Belt & Other Common Themes

[glassywear]

You don't have to worry about them, they're actually there to watch over you.. to make sure you are safe. They're called the yoorfookd clan and honestly mean no harm.

I believe you. Houdy!
Same idea that i had but it's sooooooooooo serioous.

 

[psood0nym]

Yeah, at one point this summer I smoked a bowl of potent extract after a long, sleep deprived week that started with my first 2C-Experience, and spiraled maniacally until the aforementioned SD experience... I didn't have visuals or anything of the like, just a total catatonic breakdown where the input from my senses was so mangled it became a constant feedback loop of non-understanding. As I came down I went through some kind of schizophrenic deprogramming where I saw my life from the perspective of three people close to me. Than "I" saw the previous week I spent fried on 2C-E from an extremely detached perspective that had me convinced I was a manic/obsessive shizophrenic by the time I was totally down.

It scared me more than anything, I mean even for a short period of time seeing your own life as nothing more than a series of random coincidences... Terrifying. Like your experience I thought that kind of vision was more in the league of epic doses of classical psychedelics. My friend had undergone a similar experience on a massive amount of 2C-E and a host of other psychs. So I guess you could say that was weighing on my psyche for the week, which combined with the sleep deprivation and dissociative qualities of SD made me jump to those tangents on the return to reality. But still, like most manic breaks it had the quality of being absolutely and totally convincing within that moment. I intended to break through that night and experience the kinds of things described in this thread, conveyor belts, dissociation, strange visuals and sensations. But to have your head ripped out of the matrix is something else entirely, and speaks to the classic visionary nature of the Diviner's Sage...

Salvia just might be the most interesting drug ever. The experiences seem to skate along the outer edge of oblivion, but even at that once-thought-impossible distance we’re seemingly finding these extraordinarily specific commonalities between user’s trips. Yet, between the trips of an individual user, salvia also seems capable of incredible departures into the realms of classical psychedelia—where it somehow bends back its wild tangents and braids them into meaningful narratives (as yours), or into hideously amplified vectors of emotion (as mine). Perhaps no other psychedelic is so homogeneous in the content of its visions, or more various.

 

[LordKrishna]

I alwaysed experienced it as a flapping of reality. or as aldous said, zipper like effects, or rubber banding. something always feels very wrong and out fo place and like I experienced something I shouldnt have. salvia is a very heavy drug. DMT was always my favorite for cosmic exploration. It was alot friendlier when eh carnival came to my mind then when I became the carnival for an alien mind

 

[LordKrishna]

oh, I admit that Id idnt read teh entire thread, but that feeling of being ripped backwards, anyone ever think it might be gravity? we become more aware of the forces that contorl our reality and become very physicaly aware of the force of gravity?

 

[psood0nym]

^I'm pretty certain it is just gravity psychedelically misconstrued as coming from other, fluctuating, directions. This would be in line with--well, my own--labeling of salvia as a profound somatosensory hallucinogen (see earlier). Skin tingles, fluctuating gravity, being "zipped" in half--these are quite likely aberrations of the normal states of somatosensory perceptions like proprioception--which, among other things, allows us to discern the positions of our limbs in relation to our body. By tweaking a perceptual faculty like proprioception, we could very well be made to feel that the two halves of our body are in different locations. Coupled with crawling, sharp, tingling sensations (like a zipper against skin), we might even conclude that the two halves of our body were "zipped" in half.

 

[psood0nym]

I just ran a *really quick, haphazard* search and confirmed that the kappa opioid receptor is expressed in the rat cerebellar cortex. The cerebellum is known to be involved in human proprioception. That a selective kappa opioid agonist like salvinorin A wreaks havoc with human proprioception might be due to the presence of the same receptor in the human cerebellum and its possible utilization in signaling proprioceptive information.

 

[LordKrishna]

I just ran a *really quick, haphazard* search and confirmed that the kappa opioid receptor is expressed in rat cerebellar cortex. The cerebellum is known to be involved in human proprioception. That a selective kappa opioid agonist like salvinorin A reeks havoc with human proprioception might be due to the presence of the same receptor in the human cerebellum and its possible utilization in signaling proprioceptive information.

NICE JOB GUMSHOE!!!

looks like you got to the bottom of the salvia situation. TIME TO PUBLISH YOUR WORK!!

 

[psood0nym]

The peer review process would be hilarious. The replication of my work, even more so.

 

[LordKrishna]

The peer review process would be hilarious. The replication of my work, even more so.

No, seriousely. I think you've discovered something here which would/could and DOES explain teh salvia experience.

Id vote for ya:D

 

[psood0nym]

It may explain something about the sensational effects of salvia if it pans out, but not the visions. It seems the kappa opioid receptor, like some of the 5-HT receptors, is involved at a deep level in human visual perception and in the production of the self concept. I think it may be however--as stated earlier--that the sense we have of the integrity of our bodies may directly impact the integrity of our self concept and imaginal processes. In this way salvinorin A's impact on somatosensory processes may feed into its more "cerebral" effects.

 

[LordKrishna]

It may explain something about the sensational effects of salvia if it pans out, but not the visions. It seems the kappa opioid receptor, like some of the 5-HT receptors, is involved at a deep level in human visual perception and in the production of the self concept. I think it may be however--as stated earlier--that the sense we have of the integrity of our bodies may directly impact the integrity of our self concept and imaginal processes. In this way salvinorin A's impact on somatosensory processes may feed into its more "cerebral" effects.

sounds as if you got it. as I said, write it all up and get it published on the pubmed site or what ever its called. You got the answers, now connect teh dots and I'll support ya. %)

 

[General Patton]

Salvia just might be the most interesting drug ever. The experiences seem to skate along the outer edge of oblivion, but even at that once-thought-impossible distance we’re seemingly finding these extraordinarily specific commonalities between user’s trips. Yet, between the trips of an individual user, salvia also seems capable of incredible departures into the realms of classical psychedelia—where it somehow bends back its wild tangents and braids them into meaningful narratives (as yours), or into hideously amplified vectors of emotion (as mine). Perhaps no other psychedelic is so homogeneous in the content of its visions, or more various.

Yeah, the concept of a natural dissociative active at the ug level is hard enough to wrap your head around, than when you experience it's effects... Whenever taking classical psychedelics I always get the feeling (even with RC's) that they all have a pretty basic mechanism of action. Of course they are all complex in actual psychological action, but it seems like even when you tread into the 4-Acetoxy ester of whatever. It's the same brain mechanisms being triggered, albeit in slightly different ways. With Salvia it really does feel like something else entirely. Like you said peculiar body perceptions along with concepts of self-identity being totally shredded, it's very alien yet very convincing. Something I'm surprised Terrence Mckenna wasn't into, what with it's association with a female godess entity. Although I guess that's another discussion unto itself...

 

[PillsburyDoughBoy]

^So the thing that was moving toward you represented pride and money how? Sometimes in salvia trips, visionary content is simply accepted by the mind wholesale as signifying certain ideas despite the fact that the content doesn't possess any actual symbolic qualities that could communicate its meaning. I'm guessing that's what happened to you?

Exactly. Its hard to explain and i simply could not explain it to my friends, who watched me open my mouth and then try to swallow air but instead just choke.

It was a pyramid and as soon as i saw it i was convinced that it would some how make me richer, I took it as an edible form of currency i guess. I remember as it floated into my mouth I was very proud and happy that i was achieving it, but as I tried to swallow it I had an extremely dry mouth and was just sucking on air.

The way I see it the sense of pride or maybe just happiness for obtaining this currency represented the way material value can at first seem like a substitute for real happiness, but the fact that i tried to swallow/obtain it but only swallowed air showed me that I was in fact gaining nothing.

 

[glassywear]

a bit O/T, does anyone have an idea of the shelf life of stored salvia? i assume a vacu-seal would be the best way to store it?

A glass jar that has rubber seal. And a good lid that has closing mechanism that connects to jar that has that rubber seal. So that it is total air proof. And with whole leaves. Like a jam can.

That's how stupid i am. Of course a wacuum sealed plastic bag is best! 8( .

How air is bad to such dry herb? This gets me totally paranoid. Salvinorin Q is degradative and has a very alarming halflife. :D 8)

 

[glassywear]

Without getting into a long explanation (as its not needed), I've totally experience this (except I called it a newspaper printing roll) and its so crazy that this appears to be a shared experience.

S.D. is amazing stuff.

I do not want to offend you, if it is personal, but are you a woman?
Reason, the reason, the characterism is interesting of what you are. It was a long time since i was reading those what you were writting. BTW, you people have fans global!

Not to get personal friends of something like that.

 

[Shambles]

I don't often stray into PD, but I was wandering through today and this caught my eye.

Without getting into a long explanation (as its not needed), I've totally experience this (except I called it a newspaper printing roll) and its so crazy that this appears to be a shared experience.

S.D. is amazing stuff.

That is precisely how I've tried to describe the sensation - kinda like being flattened out and rolled through a trans-dimensional printing press :D.

I've only "broken through" a few times now (thanks to some 40x) and I've had something similar (although always different, if you know what I mean) happen every time. The last one at the weekend was the freakiest. I put a bit more in the bong than I realised and found myself spinning enlessly through a labyrinth - whilst pinned to it's revolving walls, of course, this is Salvia after all.

The worrying part was that I only "came back" as I was walking out of my front door - not a good idea. I think I'm going to save future excursions until I can find a suitable sitter. I appear to be one of those folks who gets a walking head on whilst in Salvialand and that's probably going to end in tears if I'm not careful. Or at least extreme embarassment :D.

 

[LordKrishna]

I don't often stray into PD, but I was wandering through today and this caught my eye.



That is precisely how I've tried to describe the sensation - kinda like being flattened out and rolled through a trans-dimensional printing press :D.

I've only "broken through" a few times now (thanks to some 40x) and I've had something similar (although always different, if you know what I mean) happen every time. The last one at the weekend was the freakiest. I put a bit more in the bong than I realised and found myself spinning enlessly through a labyrinth - whilst pinned to it's revolving walls, of course, this is Salvia after all.

The worrying part was that I only "came back" as I was walking out of my front door - not a good idea. I think I'm going to save future excursions until I can find a suitable sitter. I appear to be one of those folks who gets a walking head on whilst in Salvialand and that's probably going to end in tears if I'm not careful. Or at least extreme embarassment :D.

imagine a 19 year old spun out on salvia shaking teh fence of some 80+ year old neighbors asking them if "this is real, is this OK? am I OK? IS THIS REAL???" spun the fuck out on salvia. This is what happened the first time I broke through, apperently I ran around the house, fell a few times then jetted out the door.

 

[psood0nym]

That is precisely how I've tried to describe the sensation - kinda like being flattened out and rolled through a trans-dimensional printing press :D.

Two-dimensionality is another widespread theme in salvia trips. I like the printing press symbolism because it encapsulates three of salvia's major themes: two dimensionality; repetition; and, sensations of motion--particularly cyclical sensations of motion (spinning, rolling, riding Ferris wheels or conveyor belts.)

I recall a salvia vision from a report (I think from erowid) that also captured some of these themes well, but in a different way: an endless string of paper ginger bread men who controlled the universe--er, something like that.

The worrying part was that I only "came back" as I was walking out of my front door - not a good idea. I think I'm going to save future excursions until I can find a suitable sitter. I appear to be one of those folks who gets a walking head on whilst in Salvialand and that's probably going to end in tears if I'm not careful.

Though I feel that the utterly unique experiences salvia brings to human consciousness wholly justifies the risks of keeping it available (ideally regulated ala Siebert), this aspect of the trips makes it a genuinely dangerous drug. It's a simple fact that, in practice, not everyone will use a sitter, and eventually, someone is going to run out of a window or into traffic, perhaps killing innocents in the process. It may not have much abuse potential, but the fact that it quite often causes a person to get up and run around unaware of their actions is a far more legitimate reason to make it illegal than most of the reasons that have been successfully employed in barring other psychedelics. If anyone is determined to do it on their own, they should at least lock the doors and windows beforehand in order to, hopefully, limit any damages to themselves.

 

[Shambles]

^ Indeed. It's the "wandering urge" that is the only part of the salvia experience that I find genuinely worrying. What I found especially strange was that I was sat at my computer listening to music with headphones at the time, but when I "came to" I discovered that I had paused the music, taken the headphones off and not tripped over the wires (which I almost always do even when stone-cold sober) on my deranged spin through the Labyrinth. I was very much offworld - completely unaware of my surroundings - but some part of me was functioning in this world too. Odd, to say the least.

It's mighty strange stuff salvia - with much potential and interest, I believe - but certainly to be approached with caution. Obviously that would apply to all psychedelics (indeed all drugs and all things) but salvia seems to demand a whole other level of respect.

 

[glassywear]

some kind of mill

^So the thing that was moving toward you represented pride and money how? Sometimes in salvia trips, visionary content is simply accepted by the mind wholesale as signifying certain ideas despite the fact that the content doesn't possess any actual symbolic qualities that could communicate its meaning. I'm guessing that's what happened to you?

I think a lot of people read about how random and nonsensical salvia trips are and conclude the plant is simply a short-acting and hyper-visual dissociative deleriant. It's trips like yours, which seem to meaningfully incorporate thoughts and feelings into a salvia trip's bizarre narrative, that reveal it to be a truly visionary drug. Then again, maybe you're just trying to superimpose meaning over a very intense experience you feel must mean something after the fact. It's hard to say with salvia.

I do know, though, that one time when I was depressed, I thought I'd smoke salvia in order to break out of the downward slide and provide myself with a perspective where the depression would seem small or silly. Instead the whole trip consisted of severely elevated feelings of despair, with no visions or strange happenings at all. Heightening emotions as profoundly as salvia did that day was the sole forte of classical 5-HT psychedelics, I had thought. It only happened once, but that radical departure from it's usual behavior made me think that salvia must be a full-fledged, mind manifesting, albeit far left-field, psychedelic.

Since salvia is both an ego dissolver and a powerful somatosensory hallucinogen--with its fluctuating gravity effects, crawling skin tingles, and reports of people being zipped down their middle--I wonder how much of the integrity of our egos depends on a steady sense of the the integrity of our bodies i.e. as discussed, how much of salvia's visionary content truly is a direct interpretation of its physical symptoms and how much is added in by salvia's influence on other non-somatosensory brain systems.

Yeah, the what called zipper, rips and chews our souls to bread if can. I'm serious. Grain mill. Rippes to half and chews people.
Forget "reality alter machinery" to this that, experiences wide from edge to edge(i know that! ), it has to be God, shamanism. I'm not just reading these and try impress. really, me is social dork but try explore. It is fun hobby.

i know my personality is not very fit to this board but i like it very much and i am fan of many stars here. Their attitude. It is fun and when i if i can start reading more better then it is nice to have some acception. What is that ashamed. "Harassing" is personal stupidness, not purpose and motive.