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Quitting/Tapering Thread.

Two weeks into the BIG KICK.

There are finally signs of improvement but it's the mental heaviness which is the hardest part. Every damn thing has to be done with my mind as drill-sargeant:

-get out of bed

-take shower

-go for a brisk walk

-eat something


And all the while I'm freezing cold and struggling to contain emotions which are like those super bouncy balls; you know, the ones you throw really hard in a contained space and they bounce off the walls like bullets. I hear some music and think it's so beautiful I'm gonna go boo-boo. A second later I see a piece of rubbish on the ground and I want to throw a hydrogen bomb on it.

This insanity surely marks the final stretch before a return to equilibrium. It had better.
 
Excellent quote Spacejunk!

What's the source?

Also, today I went out and played with a frisbee. Epic challenge.

The question that keeps sounding off in my head - relevant to Spacejunk's quote - is: who am I now?
 
^ it's a line from one of Bob Dylan's more transcendent poetic works; "It's Alright, Ma, I'm Only Bleeding".

(Where he may have appropriated the sentiment from is anyone's guess).

It's a thought I always find helpful in tough times.
"Is my life and everything I love disintegrating before my eyes?"
Or am I "going through a period of change and upheaval"
I think the difference can be a matter of perception.

It takes strength - nobody could deny that - but a supportive community can be a source of great strength. And that's what we're all here for, right?
I have a suspicion that you are now stepping into the realms of being whoever you want to be, Halif.

Scary and ill-defined as that may be...it is an opportunity to re-invent yourself; something a lot of people seem to do all they can to avoid.
Identity - especially self-identity - is a slippery idea. Hard to grasp - especially when the thing/s that has/have anchored you to a sense of equilibrium (ie drugs of addiction) has been taken out of the equation.
The triumph of beating addiction is no instant gratification, or even easy to see without the benefit of hindsight. But that doesn't make the hard slog any less worthwhile...

But in your more optimistic moments (in your wd fire-cracker mood-shift echo-chamber) try and maybe reflect on who you'd want to become, and how you could do it.
I fully believe you can do anything you set your mind to, my friend.
 
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I think the difference can be a matter of perception.
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I have a suspicion that you are now stepping into the realms of being whoever you want to be, Halif.
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Displaying wisdom well beyond your years (and 90% of the population). I'm absolutely sure you're spot on - on both counts.

I'm nearly a month out now from using opiates and I can say that I hate everything with an intensity that terrifies me. That's kind of the crux of the issue, too.

I have a strong violent streak which I have hardly ever exercised and have in fact spent most of my life running from. When I express even a small amount of it, I am overcome with regret for months or even years to come. It disgusts me, but I can't deny it's there.

This is a crucial part of my self-medicating for the last seven or so years. The intense anger I feel is unbearable and I feel, inexcusable. There are countless people the world over who have faced much greater hardship than I ever have and thus I feel this intense rage is extremely despicable and an abomination of a trait.

It is not by any means the strongest of the emotions I experience - there's a compassion and caring that I believe is far more deeply rooted and which shines through on 99% of days. Fact remains, however, that I have this overwhelming rage which I cannot displace.
 
Kicking drugs will do that to you.

I don't know if you have some sort of an outlet for the physical tension that builds with the sort of anger you speak of - personally I enjoy breaking stuff and making loud, abrasive music....but if you can channel it into something you won't feel bad about...uh, I suppose it is worth pondering.
My 'wisdom' has its limits, heh. But I urge you on, good sir.
I mean - there is a lot in this world to be angry about.
And sad about, happy about - etc etc etc
In and of itself, anger is not always a bad thing. It's all about how you express it...right?

Another nugget of left-field pop music wisdom;
"Anger is an energy" (John Lydon/PIL)

Much respect, Halif.
 
Means more than words can express, SpaceJunk.

I am deeply ashamed of my cruel streak and hope to not act on it outwardly for it is not like the regular ego-driven punching on Saturday night type thing that many seem to go for. It is more of an intense outburst and urge to decimate the thing which caused me the irritation. I am afraid of myself, to be perfectly honest.

To make matters worse, I tend to exercise quite hard when I have no other outlet for inner quiet. I'm far from being a tough guy, but past bust ups have proven that I more than make up for brute strength by having a desire to destroy my opponent.

I used to go toe to toe with friends in high school for fun after we'd shared a bottle of Jack. I was a late bloomer and so most thought it was a laugh until I got knocked out cold, then got up and proceeded to beat them into retardation until people used to run from me when they saw me coming.

Not bragging. I'm embarrassed. Hurting people and even things makes me feel so low. Now I'm 6 foot 2 inches and have a death wish. I'm afraid of what comes next.

The world is violet and repulsive enough - what use could the urge to extreme violence serve the greater good?
 
THanks dude, I'm chugging along.

I got fairly intoxicated (beer) yesterday. Fairly typical part of the beginnings of the post acute phase of withdrawals: seeking out a replacement crutch.

I was feeling very down, which is hardly a surprise considering I'm not yet clear of benzo PAWS and am just entering opiate PAWS and have (apparently) treatment resistant depression... so it's like running a marathon and then being beaten by a mob at the finish line*

The last week, as the physical issues subside, the mental issues have come back with a vengeance and make the whole thing seem too hard and not even worthwhile. It's such a drab thought to start feeling physically better and to start really wondering what there is in life. Once you've done a solid three weeks of opiate withdrawals I find that I am in fact not in any kind of mood to rush back into the old habit. The fucking WDs are hell on Earth, and I've at learned my lesson for at least six months!

So it's an in-between point where you know that going back is not really an option, and going forwards seems about as enticing as eating a dog's turd. Several turds, even.

I'm not really as psycho as I made out above. I haven't fought anyone - or even raised my voice at someone in anger - for 12 years or more. I don't even tend to hit or break objects anymore. I do, however, have a truly wicked temper tucked deep, deep inside. My father was the same and I was deathly afraid of his outbursts. He was not violent towards me or my mother, he just spazzed out sometimes and appeared truly demonic.

I'll keep on the path. It's just no fun (duh). I'm at the part where I derive no satisfaction from anything. Life is awfully dull at present.

*I didn't come up with that analogy, I actually read it somewhere here on Bluelight and just love it
 
Hey mate I recently got off opiates and its fucking terrible, for some dumb reason I thought that I might have WDs for 7 days at the max! fucking bullshit, I lied to myself for way to fucking long. Im almost good now but its been six weeks and honestly im still not right, but getting better. I read that you were using beer as a crutch? I did that to and I honestly think it helped me but I dont want to say that it will work for you.You need to find what works for you and go with it. Good luck mate.
 
Hey Gimpman! Good to hear you've done the hard yards. Yes, it goes on and on and on and the mental part is far worse punishment than the initial acute stage, IMO. Good for you and I hope you continue to build in fortitude.

I read that you were using beer as a crutch? I did that to and I honestly think it helped me but I dont want to say that it will work for you.
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It's really strange... I haven't been a big drinker since my teens and early twenties and have actually grown to strongly dislike alcohol intoxication. BUT a couple days back I kind of went to town (well I drank "a lot" by my years of virtual teetotaler status, anyway; 12 stubbies or so) on the beer and while it wasn't a great time it was a decent distraction.

And more importantly, I woke up feeling somehow purged the next day. No, I didn't puke or anything in the literal sense of purge. I barely had a hangover, felt a little tired, but actually felt a bit calmer. The day after that I felt better still.

So, like you say, I would never recommend replacing an opiate addiction with alcohol (or benzos), but for me this ONE TIME getting drunk actually seemed to help push me out of the brutal angry depression I'd dropped into. Fucking weird. I have no plans to drink again to try and "improve" myself. It was a one off thing.

Possibly it was just that the alcohol relaxed my mind enough to let go of a lot of the inner drill sergeant mentality that I employ to get out of drug addictions. I tend to be really hard on myself otherwise I simply won't make it through, but it gets hard to drop that mentality and it turns really toxic when it goes from inner motivator to "I hate everything in this world".
 
Alcohol has become nearly an enemy at this point in my recovery.

Yes I feel great after a few, but god damn do I suffer the days following. Angry, depressed, it seems to weary off the daily anxiety, but I've found it's not worth it for the days that follow.

This has to do with past alcohol abuse and a mild dependency on benzos.

Starting to realise I have a shitload more to heal than my simple opiate addiction. (Well, it's also confirmation as to why I started in the first place).
 
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This has to do with past alcohol abuse
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I had/have the same, Cap'n. I drank so much early on that I seemed to go so far past the point of being able to enjoy it, and then much much worse I would get insane 2-3 long hangovers. So I said 'fuck that' to alcohol years ago.

That's why I was surprised at the short-term boost I got from a one-off booze fest two days back.

I really do think, however, that it was nothing more than the relief - even the short few hours of distraction - that gave my brain a window of opportunity to remember what not feeling like utter garbage feels like, and it spurred me to keep going with this kick.

Starting to realise I have a shitload more to heal than my simple opiate addiction. (Well, it's also confirmation as to why I started in the first place).
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This is the hardest part of the whole damned thing, without question. The older one gets, and the more they try to escape issues (which they may not even have been aware they had), the harder this fucking cycle gets. I wish us all Godspeed.
 
Is your plan to be sober altogether? Mine isn't, I just want to get to a point where I can drink socially and it not not lead to pils and whatever.
 
Halif said:
I'm nearly a month out now from using opiates and I can say that I hate everything with an intensity that terrifies me. That's kind of the crux of the issue, too.
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That sounds very unpleasant Halif, it'll become more manageable as you get out of that acute PAWS phase. You've come a long way, it's extremely hard to deal with this stuff but at least you're fighting rather than hiding from it. At least you're trying to get to a better place. That's commendable.

Fact remains, however, that I have this overwhelming rage which I cannot displace.
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You need to talk about this stuff. To a psychologist or counsellor ideally but even putting it down here is good.

Need to keep that mind busy on external things as much as possible. I helped look after sick/injured animals when I had my PAWS, although it wasn't as intense as yours I liked getting my nurture on - seemed to get the good chemicals flowing.
 
That sounds very unpleasant Halif, it'll become more manageable as you get out of that acute PAWS phase. You've come a long way, it's extremely hard to deal with this stuff but at least you're fighting rather than hiding from it. At least you're trying to get to a better place. That's commendable.
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Nailed it, Christ!.

A friend of mine, in her great wisdom, said she believes people empower themselves via Earthly experience and in particular that of contrast. That (contrast) is something I've certainly had lots of. When I speak of intense hatred what I mean of course is that I love life so much that it drives me totally fucking ape shit. It has been so intense that it's often felt simply too poignant to handle and I've gone looking for ways to 'tone it down a notch'.

Then at other times, when I've suppressed the intensity (either through lifestyle changes or substances) I feel things are incredibly mundane and rage against the routine (either through lifestyle changes or substances). I'm just now getting enough physical energy back to start working out again. It's the best way I know of expending large amounts of mental and physical energy and in doing so cleaning up psychic garbage.

Note that I'm not a gym junkie or trying to 'bulk up' or whatever the fuck, and I don't care about how much I can lift or what I look like. I am all about the personal challenge: how much can I do? How far can I take this?

I find the stronger I get physically, the less inclination I have towards petty irritation. I'm a fan of extreme metal (music) and this helps when I'm trying to kill myself exercising. The heavy music and weights combo is absolutely brilliant and I strongly recommend it to anyone who gets off on pushing themselves to breaking point. It's hard to have an existential crisis when you're lying on the ground gasping for air with all your limbs shaking like jelly. I also have found that while there is an enormous amount of really awful metal around, there's also some outstanding and 'intelligent' stuff that speaks directly to people who are fighting themselves.


Crowbar's "Sever the Wicked Hand", Strapping Young Lad's "Skeksis"(bless Devin!), and Sepultura's "Clenched Fist" are highly inspirational IME. Sometimes you need a sound that smacks you in the face and says "snap out of it, fool!".
 
I was doing it all wrong, don't try running in your work steel caps.
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Oh crap... what would that do to your ankles and knees the day after?

I've been forcing myself to exercise a bit more every day. It's different from the past, though. Whereas I have previously bounced back rapidly from opiate use with exercise, this time I actually feel worse afterwards. Like nauseous and extremely fatigued for hours afterwards (literally nodding off while sitting down to catch my breath).

I believe it's the ongoing effect of benzo PAWS stacked on top of the opiate PAWS because there's a characteristic non-linearity about it. One day I feel quite a bit better. Two days later I wake up with RLS and remain exhausted and depressed all day.

Opiate WDs are much more of a step-by-step process compared to benzo WDs/PAWS, which can come and go - the physical effects are particularly surprising in how they seemingly disappear only to come back at nearly full power days later.

And on it goes.
 
Is your plan to be sober altogether? Mine isn't, I just want to get to a point where I can drink socially and it not not lead to pils and whatever.
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My answer to this: yes, I plan to be entirely sober for an indefinite period.

I totally understand your goal as well, however. I'm sure it can be done by some people.

I personally cannot do it. I can go 'weekends only' with opiates or whatever for months, even years at a time but it has always escalated and turned into abuse and addiction - each time being more severe and damaging than the last. I don't think I could physically withstand another year-long binge on anything. It's just too hard to come back.

I won't bother saying "never again", because it's like putting a hex on oneself. Thing is, this time around has been much harder than anything I've experienced previously (in terms of detoxing/rehabilitating), and I'm at an age (mid-thirties) where I don't bounce back. This time especially I can feel a lot of damage has been done to vital organs - hopefully temporary. About a month out from last opiate I still have trouble eating (makes me ill afterwards and also extremely fatigued), I sweat and lose my breath at random points; sometimes I can walk for half an hour with no trouble, but other times out of nowhere I just start fading and my breathing gets shallow and labored. It scares me.

Fact is that I ABUSED (only I know how much, and it's something I'd never say/write down) a number of substances (including a bunch of RCs) daily, all at the same time, over a period of 24 months. I don't think it's realistic to expect a total physical/mental comeback from that. One of the reasons it took so long to get off the opiates is because they were legitimately killing pain which I assume came from polydrug abuse. It's a leap of faith to drop the shields and see what's actually what.
 
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