Quitting/Tapering Thread.

[Halif]

Hello BL, it's been a while.

I'm past three weeks since my last benzo after three years total of daily use leading to a full dependency. I spent a year and a half trying to get off but I always jumped off too fast and put my body into shock. This time it seems I've made it off. I mean, three weeks and I'm basically stable.

I'm now trying to taper from opiates and it's proving to be every bit as hard as predicted.

The thing that I'm struggling with the most is that I really don't have a carrot to chase. In fact, I have poison carrots chasing me. I have issues that need addressing due to years of self-neglect and problems relating to my addictions...and uhhh... that seems to be about as much as there is to look forward to at the end of the long, long road back to sobriety.

I know that thinking is basically my enemy. I can't find much positive to focus on, so I simply try not to think at all. It's not exactly a positive motivator, though.

I really don't know what the point of this is. It's my journey. I just thought I'd pop in to say hello and say what I've been doing.

 

[pisspotnrock]

Hello BL, it's been a while.

I'm past three weeks since my last benzo after three years total of daily use leading to a full dependency. I spent a year and a half trying to get off but I always jumped off too fast and put my body into shock. This time it seems I've made it off. I mean, three weeks and I'm basically stable.

I'm now trying to taper from opiates and it's proving to be every bit as hard as predicted.

The thing that I'm struggling with the most is that I really don't have a carrot to chase. In fact, I have poison carrots chasing me. I have issues that need addressing due to years of self-neglect and problems relating to my addictions...and uhhh... that seems to be about as much as there is to look forward to at the end of the long, long road back to sobriety.

I know that thinking is basically my enemy. I can't find much positive to focus on, so I simply try not to think at all. It's not exactly a positive motivator, though.

I really don't know what the point of this is. It's my journey. I just thought I'd pop in to say hello and say what I've been doing.

great to hear your are cold turkey from the benzoes dude!!! just please try n keep it that way (as in only use them when absolutely necessary)

as for the opiates? how much are you using (if you dont mind me asking)? mabey you'de be better off tampering after you've got your problems sorted, then would be the time to hit full sobriety.. I dont know what poison carrots are chasing you or what issues that need addressing but if you can sort them out whilst maintaining your habit, that might be the better option although through what I just read, I have a feeling your habit/addiction might be the stem of your problems

I havnt followed all your posts regarding see the specialists and what-not but have you thought about opiate maintenance? now I think of it, I might re-call you saying that wasnt an option for you (I only log onto BL when Im buckled so my memory is pretty much till)

once again, if you dont mind me asking, are you still with ya girlfriend? I only ask because me personally, would stop taking all drugs (minus alcohol, lol) if I had the right chick although please dont compare that to your situation as I am currently only consuming alcohol daily n thats a walk in the park in terms of kickin the habbit/addiction apposed to benzoes/opiates

all of what I said may be completely out of context here as I mentioned before, I only understand a small fraction of what your going through but my last bit of advice which may be beneficial...

finding anything positive to focus on during depression would be a hard horse to tame but the best thing I've found is to get back into an old hobby or find a new one that interested you and spend as much time as you can doing it.. surfing and fishing has been my savior during my down times and I havnt had a girlfriend since I was 14 (lol) so I have to find my own way to stay positive

anyway, its good to hear your off the benzoes dude and I hope your current rut gets filled in soon, Im sure it will.. time and (and as hard as it may be) positive thinking would be your best friends right now

take care brother n keep us updated on how ya goin

sorry if my post was a bit over the place, forgot to sleep last night and alpraz n clonaz are the only things keeping me from spiraling into a cunt of a come-down

 

[Captain Brewster]

^^ well done Halif!

I can imagine it would have, and still is, one hard slog. But hang in there.

There is not much else I can say, that you yourself, hasent already in this very thread. Helping others when their in the same boat your now rowing. You know what to do.

Think of not needing to chase them god damn pills as your carrot buddy.

Keep in touch Halif (AKA AussDD Resident Empathy Guru).

 

[Halif]

Thanks for the responses guys.

once again, if you dont mind me asking, are you still with ya girlfriend? I only ask because me personally, would stop taking all drugs (minus alcohol, lol) if I had the right chick

Yep, still together. I understand what you're saying Pisspot, and it's one of the things that makes me feel like a prick... what I mean by that is that I got a truly fantastic woman by my side and while our relationship is easily the best thing that's ever happened to us both it actually somehow doesn't stop me from hating being alive.

I know how fucked that sounds but that the long and short of it. I've been this way since forever and I realise now, in my mid-thirties, that i'm not going to recover from this "bout of depression". Fucking 25 year bout of feeling like rubbish. How am I supposed to get off all the junk when that's my baseline? My doctor just tells me know that there aren't any anti-depressants left to try. So as futile as covering up the immediate symptoms seems to be, that's all there is to do.

Let me re-iterate at this point that I have not spent my whole life on drugs. I have had lengthy periods (a year to two years at a time) of sobriety, meditation, and exercise. I like healthy living more than I like being wasted, but unfortunately it's not enough to stop me from plummeting into shitsville on a regular basis.

 

[infectedmushroom]

Good to hear from you Halif, good to hear you've kicked your benzo dependence. I couldn't imagine what that would take, kudos and respect mate.

Have you ever tried DXM or Ketamine for depression?

I've found a 2nd plateu DXM trip enough to lift the fog of depression. It doesn't last forever of course but it's beautiful to be free from the mindset for as long as it lasts.

K is even better. Never used either substance with the express intention of relieving depression, some trips have just given me back that vigor in life I was missing, buried underneath negativity and doubt.

I sort of stumble back to DXM by accident and i'm always so pleased when I do because at times it's honestly profoundly changed my outlook on things.

 

[Tll21290]

hey so ive been dealing with opiate addiction for the last 3 years about a year and a half of that has been IV heroin use any way ive been on suboxone for about 5 months and i taperd down to 0.5mg and jumped off i started to get sick and started using again IV for 6 days i then went cold turkey from that which wasnt that bad but still very uncomfortable anyways on the night of day 3 of withdrawal i bought 3 bags and i sniffed two instead of iv i woke up this morning after sleeping good in very very mild withdrawal about 30 percent of where i was 10 hours from last dose on day one three days ago and it had been 15 hours so i ended up sniffing my last bag and it took away all the withdrawal symptoms tomorrow morning i plan on scraping the three bags i have and sniffing that will probably equal about a quarter to a half of a bag so i was wondering what to expect since i went through three days of withdrawal and used but used two bags sniffed once a day instead of 6 iv 2-3 times a day and i am essentialy tapering off should i expect full withdrawal symptoms or something mild what do you think will happen?

 

[Crankinit]

hey so ive been dealing with opiate addiction for the last 3 years about a year and a half of that has been IV heroin use any way ive been on suboxone for about 5 months and i taperd down to 0.5mg and jumped off i started to get sick and started using again IV for 6 days i then went cold turkey from that which wasnt that bad but still very uncomfortable anyways on the night of day 3 of withdrawal i bought 3 bags and i sniffed two instead of iv i woke up this morning after sleeping good in very very mild withdrawal about 30 percent of where i was 10 hours from last dose on day one three days ago and it had been 15 hours so i ended up sniffing my last bag and it took away all the withdrawal symptoms tomorrow morning i plan on scraping the three bags i have and sniffing that will probably equal about a quarter to a half of a bag so i was wondering what to expect since i went through three days of withdrawal and used but used two bags sniffed once a day instead of 6 iv 2-3 times a day and i am essentialy tapering off should i expect full withdrawal symptoms or something mild what do you think will happen?

You've bounced back and forward so much I doubt it would be easy to say.

Thought about a codeine taper? Don't try to potentiate it with DXM or anything that would make it more euphoric and tempting to keep dosing, just take plain codeine (restavit if you need it for the itch), CWE'd at first, then when you get down to 100mg or so daily, swap to the pills and keep tapering. That's how I plan to eventually get off subs, since you can taper down to a much smaller dose with codeine than you ever can with subs (in an easy, practical manner anyway). 20mg of codeine (2 & 1/2 brand name panadeine, or 2 of the generics) is equipotent to 0.05mg of suboxone, and codeine has a much shorter half life than subs, meaning that when you eventually do jump, any symptoms (which seem that they would be unlikely, or at least mild in the extreme) at all will be much shorter.

This chart should help you figure out the equivalents:

 

[Halif]

Infectedmushroom: thanks for the comments..

Have you ever tried DXM or Ketamine for depression?

Hell yeah I have. Many times. K is a godsend. I found MXE to be outstanding also but if I overdo it I go nutty (I don't mean a bit manic, I mean "off da railz").

I've thought before that one of those substances is probably the only thing that'd get me off the opiates. Speaking of which I screwed up a taper and have been feeling shit because I was stupid enough to tell people I was going for the big jump. Word of advice for anyone who has tried and failed dozens of times to get off opiates (or whatever): don't tell anyone you're going for the Big Off.

If you try and fail you feel bad enough, but having people ask how it's going - or worse congratulate you - is enough to make you feel two inches tall.

Next time I try I'll just do it (Trademark of Nike) and surprise people with the result if I actually make it.

Hope you're doing OK, Mr Shroom. Thanks again.

 

[infectedmushroom]

I suppose it's just what is often said about quitting. Ultimately you have to do it for yourself - the opinions and views of those around you should come second (all though believe me I know how difficult it is when you feel a great responsibility for those you care for - and everyone has their pride.)

Luckily dxm is OTC eh - it's a wonderful substance when used responsibly.

If you don't mind me poking a little bit, which opiate(s) are you using?

 

[infectedmushroom]

Got your pm Halif - tried to reply but your inbox is full.

 

[Halif]

Got your pm Halif - tried to reply but your inbox is full.

Sorry. I try to stay on top of that because i know how irritating it is when messages bounce back. It's empty now.

As an update: At a guess, I'd say I've tried to go CT, made it 70% through, caved and gone back to using again, all about a dozen times now. It feels like I'm permanently in WDs and I really just want this shit to be over with.

The upside is that I am actually making headway every time I try and "fail". I'm so close to being dependence free that the notion of sobriety is actually overwhelming to me. I feel like a prison inmate who's got a taste of freedom and is not sure they know what to do with it. I have essentially destroyed my life as it was known to me prior (I don't really believe in ruinous finality - only long hard slogs back), so it's very hard to get excited about the prospect of freedom when what's waiting is the process of re-invention from step one. Very daunting.

Does anyone know what I'm getting at?

After living as an addict for years, the very notion of not having that addiction is actually frightening because the addiction IS YOUR LIFE 24/7. If I don't have that structure (shitty structure, sure, but it's something) than I'm not sure what will happen.

Meh. There's still many a sleepless night to go yet so I've got that to keep me occupied.

 

[Christ!]

Does anyone know what I'm getting at?

Absolutely, I'm sure lots of us can relate. Sometimes it's hard to see improvement when I try and then fail to beat my addictions over and over, so it's good you've got that positive perspective. Complete reinvention is so overwhelming most people never do it. I think having structure and routine helps me the most but it's different for everyone.

I think a strong narrative in your head is important. Like a story but truthful (and kind, avoiding the negative self-talk type stuff). Why/how it happened? What you're doing to overcome it, and where doing those things will take you.

Being clean of all my habits was incredible after PAWs wore off, I think my core values like being genuine/honest doesn't mesh with being an addict - some people can do it and be perfectly happy, but I always have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach like I'm forsaking my self or something. Being addiction free just takes some practice, after you get used to it you'll realize all that fear was a waste of time.

 

[Halif]

I can't thank you enough for that, Christ!

When people who know the territory report back it's like torches being lit along the way. It's immensely frustrating to me that I've been through the whole cycle of dependence and reinvention before - numerous times - because I feel like I know it all and yet clearly I'm missing the key point of the thing as I'm still here in the shit.

It's getting harder every time I do it, and the only solace I've got is the notion that I'm working towards something. Each time I come out of this self-created hell I have a period of immense productivity and basically revelling in sobriety. Basically, life itself is a big trip and I've had mind-blowing moments while sober so I do know what life is like sans drugs. The issue for me is depression.

Although I dislike the word and all it stands for*, I can only assume that I have genetically encoded tendencies towards intense swings of mood in a downward trajectory. Bi-polar has never been completely ruled out, but to me it seems unlikely as I don't really have ups that are unrealistic or inappropriate. I have "normal" and I have lots of levels of "down and out".

It's the recurring troughs the have seen me seek out substances since I was quite young. I feel ripped off because to me it seems I have, at times in life, put in the work required to have a good, balanced healthy life - and I've enjoyed that immensely. Why then, is that not enough? The pendulum swings. It can't just sit in the centre. And the tiniest of movements can gain momentum if vigilance isn't present at all times.

Thanks again. Your sentiments mean a lot and I will keep going. I want to make it back to baseline and then hopefully live honestly enough that I'll see what it is that throws me off centre - and deal with it.

 

[Christ!]

Anytime man. I appreciate reading your posts, just hearing that someone is going/or has gone through similar things is reassuring.

Although I dislike the word and all it stands for*, I can only assume that I have genetically encoded tendencies towards intense swings of mood in a downward trajectory. Bi-polar has never been completely ruled out, but to me it seems unlikely as I don't really have ups that are unrealistic or inappropriate. I have "normal" and I have lots of levels of "down and out".

It's the recurring troughs the have seen me seek out substances since I was quite young. I feel ripped off because to me it seems I have, at times in life, put in the work required to have a good, balanced healthy life - and I've enjoyed that immensely. Why then, is that not enough? The pendulum swings. It can't just sit in the centre. And the tiniest of movements can gain momentum if vigilance isn't present at all times.
.

Sounds familiar actually. I guess there's the reasons we started medicating in the first place that are often still there. If only it was as easy as getting through the withdrawal and coming out the other end fixed.

You ever done any counselling or work with a psychologist? I've seen quite a few over the years but haven't got much out of them. My most recent counsellor has been different though, I've just been lazy and haven't kept seeing her regularly. Feel like it's something that needs to be done...I've been lucky enough to find an open minded and understanding one so need to make use of that. I do find it difficult to open up and would probably prefer a root canal than therapy, would love to give MDMA therapy a go if it were legal

Not sure what your experiences and thoughts on medication are at the moment. It's possible there's a drug out there that could help keep that pendulum from going all the way over, just something that gives you a bit of a buffer without awful side effects. Finding the right Doctor is frustrating though - most GP's hardly worth the trouble.

 

[Captain Brewster]

Heh, getting off shit seems to be flavour of the month, or many months (feeling for you).

I'm at the end of day 5 rapid bupe taper from opi's.

It's been a rough few days, my constant brain zaps stopped today, so I could actually drive a car (probably shouldent have, but nothing wrong acuured, and fuck me I was hungry).

Tonight's the first night without bupe, and I'm looking at sleeping 0 hours. Wired, jumpy limbs and so fucking sick of Martin Tyler's voice.

I have had major crutches (mainly the bupe), but doses of etiz too with at night for sleep. Seems weird, I'm going into day 6 not sleeping, but managed sleep every other night from the small doses of bupe.

Anyone keen to try this method should give it a go, I know it's early days, but the acute stage is over I would say, just complete insomnia and restlessness now. No crazy brains or trying to eat my arm (happen day 2) anymore (think that coincided with a mild benzo dependence, realised quick smart and had more benzos).

I dosed the bupe at around 8 every night, first night .25mg (last full pst dose at 6am), second night .5mg, third .5mg, forth .5 and then last night slept okay with .25. By this time (nearly 2am) every other night I slept, wich has really helped with recovery.

I'm still no way out the woods, and I'll have to taper benzos fast when I can start sleeping naturally (fuck, if that's possible for my temples ability). I can manage all day without benzos, it's the god damn witching hours that fuck with my head, sending me to the draw.

This shit ain't sustainable anymore.


EDIT: now, I don't want to make that sound easy, time went stupidly slow, I had no energy for a couple days there that I couldent call the boss (yes, that basically means stuck in bed). Very dizzy, I think I repaird something from a ct lexapro drop during my addiction. That brain zap pulpertated with my heart everytime I moved my head, got up, smoked weed, thought. Darn painful and I hope to never do it again. But who the fuck knows. @140 hours without.

 

[Jackiew10]

I have been on methadone for over 2 1/2 years, I asked my councillor to transfer me to ND well she said she did gave me a number and 4 take outs I get to ND and call the number she gave me well come to find out no clinic in ND.
I have only one option cause now to kick out of money and hubby starts new job. oh and the hospital won't touch me cause I am on methadone neither will any doctor I've called em all.
I am on week 3 and most withdraws are gone just got anxiety and can't sleep most nights even with sleep aid.
I need a little advise on how to get my energy back, I have always been a go getter even when I kicked this shit many years ago.

 

[Opikit]

Day 1 of heroin withdrawls currently. Completely cold turkey. Ouch, get me a rope, i wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. Uncontrollable leg movement that's only going to get worse, day 2 was always the big one once you get past the initial shock of day 1. Wish me luck everyone!

 

[infectedmushroom]

Does anyone have any experience with narcotics anonymous?

I've decided to look into it, because i've crossed a line which is just disgusting in my eyes. I've taken some pain meds from a family member who actually needs them...and this wasn't even the first time. The compulsion was so sudden, the rationalization so twisted, I just need to find a way to change. I can detox easily but mentally I still really want opiates. The only thing that might force me to change was if, say, they find out (and they will) and then they kick me out. Instead of that outcome, I'd rather show them that i'm trying to change my mentality, and hopefully genuinely change it as well...i'm really just going in circles.

 

[Christ!]

Does anyone have any experience with narcotics anonymous?

I've decided to look into it, because i've crossed a line which is just disgusting in my eyes. I've taken some pain meds from a family member who actually needs them...and this wasn't even the first time. The compulsion was so sudden, the rationalization so twisted, I just need to find a way to change. I can detox easily but mentally I still really want opiates. The only thing that might force me to change was if, say, they find out (and they will) and then they kick me out. Instead of that outcome, I'd rather show them that i'm trying to change my mentality, and hopefully genuinely change it as well...i'm really just going in circles.

I remember someone on here mentioning they go to NA. They seemed like they got a lot out of it, hopefully they see your post. Footscrazy has been to another support type group that she rates, maybe she can throw in her 2 cents.

I took benzos off my grandma once. Felt so bad because she was here from America and didn't have enough to last her, I think she knew. Managed to get her in to see a Doctor but I felt filthy. Good that you've been motivated to change...sometimes it takes something like that to kick you in the arse.

 

[Halif]

Instead of that outcome, I'd rather show them that i'm trying to change my mentality, and hopefully genuinely change it as well...

Yes, this is the right idea. Hate to spew cliches but "action speaks louder than words" takes on great poignancy when one has experience letting down people who care about/for you. That's what finally forced me to start this most epic of poly drug tapers months ago - when one day I realised that there was a look in the eyes of the people closest to me. It was a look of fading hope when I was talking about how I was going to really get it together... for the eighth time or something.

My mother simply said: "Just please don't die", and I realised how much I'd put everyone through because I'd stop caring about myself.