WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
Spot on buddy, he won't give me clonidine so I've had to keep tapering for nearly 2 months now without it, but he gave me some gabapentin yesterday. This is such a fucking tough battle.
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Quitting opiates, taper or cold turkey?
- Thread starter WantToBeReborn
- Start date
Spot on buddy, he won't give me clonidine so I've had to keep tapering for nearly 2 months now without it, but he gave me some gabapentin yesterday. This is such a fucking tough battle.
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
How you feeling?
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
Hi Evey!
Today, feeling much better thanks to some gabapentin and sleep meds and now stabilising my current dose before completing my taper. I suppose it was always going to be brutal tapering off a short acting opiate with no use of any form of replacement, no methadone, no subs, no nothing. But at least I have some gabapentin now for when I do my next reduction.
How are you Evey?
Today, feeling much better thanks to some gabapentin and sleep meds and now stabilising my current dose before completing my taper. I suppose it was always going to be brutal tapering off a short acting opiate with no use of any form of replacement, no methadone, no subs, no nothing. But at least I have some gabapentin now for when I do my next reduction.
How are you Evey?
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
Ok thanks. Seen my key worker today xxxx
Rox
Bluelighter
Here is what the Hedonist forgets - polar opposites, and their true effect on the hidden magnetism of karmic earth.
Specifically, you cannot have pleasure without pain. We see it more than anybody. Specifically, the absolute neurotransmitting chemical that produces pleasure also produces pain - because of cause and effect. It is a natural process of the mind in all the creatures on earth. The exact base of pleasure, the exact cause of pleasure, is the same thing as pain because when you cause the reaction of neuroactivity in the mind the activity cannot stay the same. There are things that create a natural balance which is embedded in our subconscious but they aren't easy to attain.
Specifically, you cannot have pleasure without pain. We see it more than anybody. Specifically, the absolute neurotransmitting chemical that produces pleasure also produces pain - because of cause and effect. It is a natural process of the mind in all the creatures on earth. The exact base of pleasure, the exact cause of pleasure, is the same thing as pain because when you cause the reaction of neuroactivity in the mind the activity cannot stay the same. There are things that create a natural balance which is embedded in our subconscious but they aren't easy to attain.
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
That's a very simplistic view that doesn't really consider the way pain signals are transmitted, the pain gate, or the way pain is interpreted and managed in the human body.
You can probably still pull it back up by returning to the post you quoted and pushing the quote button again, when the post window opens check if the restore post option apeares in a informal white tab at the bottom of the post window on the left.. if it does not apeare then click the go advanced tab on the right and see if this then brings up the restore post option when the advanced posting window comes up.. for me it almost always does
Where are you at in your tapper and how are you coming along with the symptoms?
Rox
Bluelighter
Can you give me some time? Or at least have a little faith in my studies? I wasn't trying to give you a novel, but a simplistic view in that post.
The beauty of short term potent opiates - it only takes more than 100 mg a day (which could be less than 3 1/2 tabs) to get sick. In that case you are no longer getting all of the profound benefits, but healing the process of the opiate leaving the mind and body. So in the morning the feeling is the opposite of pleasure. It can actually be a complete trap because it can take 60-90 mg to heal from the opiates leaving the receptors so in the morning the dose of dependence has already been taken. What I think that means is that there is no way to even taper without feeling the unique physical and psychological effects of opiate withdrawal, no matter what. That is probably why non opiate users sometimes have a deep subconscious fear of experimenting, a deep trigger in their mind that says 'NO.'
That feeling in which describes - I cannot do it, I don't have the psychological or physical strength - is specifically because natural amounts of dopamine and endorphins are not being released, and specifically because the other chemicals are still in the mind. Like if a person hikes to the top of the mountain, at the top they are physically tired and they are out of breath but since they are releasing the natural dopamine they do not feel pain, and thus get stronger. A person without those chemicals as in withdrawal, will become nauseas just communicating with the person going on a hike because they realize the psychological deficiencies of natural chemicals, regardless of themselves thinking of hiking. This is that feeling which describes - 'I cannot face the world, it is chaos out there.
So go ahead and cut me down again by not saying the exact worlds you want, why don't you add something instead of accusing me like a hater?
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
You can probably still pull it back up by returning to the post you quoted and pushing the quote button again, when the post window opens check if the restore post option apeares in a informal white tab at the bottom of the post window on the left.. if it does not apeare then click the go advanced tab on the right and see if this then brings up the restore post option when the advanced posting window comes up.. for me it almost always does
Where are you at in your tapper and how are you coming along with the symptoms?
It just did it again! Always with your posts!!!!! No joy with your tip either!!!
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Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
You ok honey? I'm gna PM you xxxx
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
Nsam - I'm ok thanks for asking, not great, but certainly not as bad as it has been! The gabapentin is helping. My doc said just stabilise now until I recover properly from the mass sickness of recent weeks, so I think by next week I should be ready to do more tapering. It definitely seems like the lower the dose goes, the smaller the reductions I can make without heavy withdrawals, but that's to be expected I suppose!
The restless leg shit definitely seems to be improved by gabapentin, it is like a wonder drug for me, especially for sleep as well, but I'm wondering what's the price to pay for this as nothing that eases opiate withdrawal comes without a price! I do not want to be on the gabapentins too long as the leaflet says it can cause withdrawals!!!
So, next week, the madness starts again with week 8 of my taper. This is my first period of stabilising after all the tapering and I do feel weakened by it. It is tough doing a slow taper but in my particular situation both mentally and physically it was probably the right option. Just want to be off this shit ASAP now and enjoy the summer and start getting my life back as my use was spiralling out of control and the frequent withdrawals day and night was fucking me. Slow, painful suicide basically.
The restless leg shit definitely seems to be improved by gabapentin, it is like a wonder drug for me, especially for sleep as well, but I'm wondering what's the price to pay for this as nothing that eases opiate withdrawal comes without a price! I do not want to be on the gabapentins too long as the leaflet says it can cause withdrawals!!!
So, next week, the madness starts again with week 8 of my taper. This is my first period of stabilising after all the tapering and I do feel weakened by it. It is tough doing a slow taper but in my particular situation both mentally and physically it was probably the right option. Just want to be off this shit ASAP now and enjoy the summer and start getting my life back as my use was spiralling out of control and the frequent withdrawals day and night was fucking me. Slow, painful suicide basically.
Alright.. fight fight fight.. you will get there!!
How many days to you let pass in between tapers?
How many days to you let pass in between tapers?
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
It's definitely a fight, fight, fight scenario!
I tried to reply when you asked before, but lost the post. Up until this last week or so, I was dropping the dose every day to two days, but now I'm on the small doses, I've had to take a break and stabilise. It feels like I've been withdrawing forever! This is the first week I've even been able to do anything half enjoyable. Dreading next round of tapering next week but I know it must be done.
I do feel already some of my old self returning, but it's a very "up and down" time, but I'm grateful I started this taper when I did and grateful for the support you and others have given me, but particularly you Nsam - you've played a big part in helping me to keep my eye on the prize. The support you give people here is astounding and you've been instrumental in my situation as well as many others.
I tried to reply when you asked before, but lost the post. Up until this last week or so, I was dropping the dose every day to two days, but now I'm on the small doses, I've had to take a break and stabilise. It feels like I've been withdrawing forever! This is the first week I've even been able to do anything half enjoyable. Dreading next round of tapering next week but I know it must be done.
I do feel already some of my old self returning, but it's a very "up and down" time, but I'm grateful I started this taper when I did and grateful for the support you and others have given me, but particularly you Nsam - you've played a big part in helping me to keep my eye on the prize. The support you give people here is astounding and you've been instrumental in my situation as well as many others.
Thats great news about staying grateful and recognizing that parts of the old self are starting to wake up again.. She will be a bumpy ride at first.. allot of ups and downs and ups.. but it smoothes out over time..
Since you are tapering morphine I would only taper consider tapering.. what are you on now.. 2mg every four hours.. so 12mgs a day? shit sir I'm just going to throw it out there.. you could jump tonight off it all tonight and be pretty much through the tunnel buy the end thursday and IMO not feeling much worse than you do right now?
I mean if im right about the dose your almost at a ten mg morphine a day dose and I would consider if you are still doing yourself a favor by tapering or just prolonging the misery?
A taper plan that I think works well is to figure out 5 half lives of the opiate we are trying to tapper and then add three days and this would be the amount of days I would go before lowering tapering the dose.. then on these days i would cut as much as i could and still function and sleep to some degree. But as your so low I would not adopt this plan of action now.
But your acomplishing amazing things and what ever way you feal is the best way is the right way to go
I know you have been dealing with all the shit to do with the taper and all but have you given any thought as to a recovery plan to battle the paws and the addiction once you pass out of the acutes?
People generally get a short period, like two days or so, where they almost get a super pleasent hypomanic state and feal absolutely wonderful and then very often the PAWS crawls out from under the rug.. If people get hit with a hard case of paws it can really hamper thier ability to come up with the plan at that point.. so you may just want to give some thought to it now, just so you have a plan if indeed you find yourself needing to deal with it.. Oh and I wouldn't plan on trying to sneak it in during the hypomanic type phase as people in a hypomanic mind set arent the best at worrying about or dealing with the future cause we are invincible
.. She will be a bumpy ride at first.. allot of ups and downs and ups.. but it smoothes out over time.. Since you are tapering morphine I would only taper consider tapering.. what are you on now.. 2mg every four hours.. so 12mgs a day? shit sir I'm just going to throw it out there.. you could jump tonight off it all tonight and be pretty much through the tunnel buy the end thursday and IMO not feeling much worse than you do right now?
I mean if im right about the dose your almost at a ten mg morphine a day dose and I would consider if you are still doing yourself a favor by tapering or just prolonging the misery?
A taper plan that I think works well is to figure out 5 half lives of the opiate we are trying to tapper and then add three days and this would be the amount of days I would go before lowering tapering the dose.. then on these days i would cut as much as i could and still function and sleep to some degree. But as your so low I would not adopt this plan of action now.
But your acomplishing amazing things and what ever way you feal is the best way is the right way to go
I know you have been dealing with all the shit to do with the taper and all but have you given any thought as to a recovery plan to battle the paws and the addiction once you pass out of the acutes?
People generally get a short period, like two days or so, where they almost get a super pleasent hypomanic state and feal absolutely wonderful and then very often the PAWS crawls out from under the rug.. If people get hit with a hard case of paws it can really hamper thier ability to come up with the plan at that point.. so you may just want to give some thought to it now, just so you have a plan if indeed you find yourself needing to deal with it.. Oh and I wouldn't plan on trying to sneak it in during the hypomanic type phase as people in a hypomanic mind set arent the best at worrying about or dealing with the future cause we are invincible
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
Think of how far you've come n what you've been through... You can't have much more to go now... Try to see it like a long walk where you're extremely tired out - instead of looking at the ending n thinking "Geeze, I've ages to go" think of how far you've walked n that's motivate you onwards... same kind of scenario.
You're doing well xxxx
You're doing well xxxx
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
Nsam, it is currently 2 ml every 4 hours, 6 doses in 24 hours, comprised of liquid morphine, which is 24 mg per day (24 hours). It is 10mg per 5ml solution. I'm in pain 24/7 at this dose but I'm trying to live with it.
For me, 24 mg is too much to jump off cold, not just from withdrawals, but from chronic pain issues and ramping blood pressure and other medical shit. It is torture but I don't have a choice. My docs won't give me clonidine as I've got some contra-indicating medical issues. If the pain can't be managed by other means then I may have to look at surgical options but for me that's a last resort with no guarantees.
It sucks being physically dependent on this junk for pain as well as the resulting dependence/tolerance and then psychological addiction on top but I know I have to pay the piper now. There's no free pain relief long term without consequences.
For me, 24 mg is too much to jump off cold, not just from withdrawals, but from chronic pain issues and ramping blood pressure and other medical shit. It is torture but I don't have a choice. My docs won't give me clonidine as I've got some contra-indicating medical issues. If the pain can't be managed by other means then I may have to look at surgical options but for me that's a last resort with no guarantees.
It sucks being physically dependent on this junk for pain as well as the resulting dependence/tolerance and then psychological addiction on top but I know I have to pay the piper now. There's no free pain relief long term without consequences.
WantToBeReborn
Bluelighter
Ha, Evey, I'm certainly tired out alright! If I was a car, I'd be scrapped! LOL!
It is annoying, frustrating and depressing but there's fuck all I can do about it except keep going, a day/week/month at a time. Every time any negative self-talk creeps in, I keep reminding myself what I do still have and how much worse off some others are. It's far too easy to fall into that victim mode and that stinking thinking is what leads us to that lonely path of self-medicating and I know I have to be fucking done with self-medicating now and address my life and whatever comes next or I am in deep shit in every way possible.
It is annoying, frustrating and depressing but there's fuck all I can do about it except keep going, a day/week/month at a time. Every time any negative self-talk creeps in, I keep reminding myself what I do still have and how much worse off some others are. It's far too easy to fall into that victim mode and that stinking thinking is what leads us to that lonely path of self-medicating and I know I have to be fucking done with self-medicating now and address my life and whatever comes next or I am in deep shit in every way possible.
Eveleivibe
Ex-Bluelighter
At least you're making a joke - that's a good thing. I know this may seem silly but have you tried to watch some comedy? It may seem like the last thing you wish to do but laughter really is the best form of medicine in that it helps release endorphins.