Quitting opiates, taper or cold turkey?

Oh yeah, plenty comedy, was cracked up laughing earlier today. It really is great medicine.

Everyone needs some crazy humour daily.

Having a dark sense of humour also helps me, the ability to see the ridiculous in context and poke fun at it!!!
 
Oh yeah, plenty comedy, was cracked up laughing earlier today. It really is great medicine.

Everyone needs some crazy humour daily.

Having a dark sense of humour also helps me, the ability to see the ridiculous in context and poke fun at it!!!

We would get along famously, as the brits say (what up evelvibe! ; ) )

Thanks for typing up a thoughtful response, such a pain when it gets scrapped!

I had a lot to say, but the phenibut is louder...zzzzzz

Keep on keepin ON that taper, I totally agree with taking it slow. Not that you Couldn't do it, but it ain't worth the body shock for sure.

Night America, Good morning Europeans! <3
 
We would get along famously, as the brits say (what up evelvibe! ; ) )

Thanks for typing up a thoughtful response, such a pain when it gets scrapped!

I had a lot to say, but the phenibut is louder...zzzzzz

Keep on keepin ON that taper, I totally agree with taking it slow. Not that you Couldn't do it, but it ain't worth the body shock for sure.

Night America, Good morning Europeans!

Yeah damn that loud phenibut, where's the volume! Haha.

Tapering sucks but whatever gets the job done. Yeah, last body shock just about finished me off, no way am I having any more of that!

When are you starting the fun of quitting? Got a date planned?
 
We would get along famously, as the brits say (what up evelvibe! ; ) )

Thanks for typing up a thoughtful response, such a pain when it gets scrapped!

I had a lot to say, but the phenibut is louder...zzzzzz

Keep on keepin ON that taper, I totally agree with taking it slow. Not that you Couldn't do it, but it ain't worth the body shock for sure.

Night America, Good morning Europeans! <3

Lol yea I'm British n will get on with anyone. Anyway want2, you're doing ace so keep it up xxxx
 
Yeah damn that loud phenibut, where's the volume! Haha.

Tapering sucks but whatever gets the job done. Yeah, last body shock just about finished me off, no way am I having any more of that!

When are you starting the fun of quitting? Got a date planned?

I don't...I'm deciding what's most important right now, which may very well be getting this job locally, then moving in the summer. I need to be in a better place to quit, my hometown just doesn't have enough to keep me occupied- tried it before. Maybe I'm lying to myself, but I don't want to find out Again.
 
I don't...I'm deciding what's most important right now, which may very well be getting this job locally, then moving in the summer. I need to be in a better place to quit, my hometown just doesn't have enough to keep me occupied- tried it before. Maybe I'm lying to myself, but I don't want to find out Again.

Sensible decision. We have to alter our lives in any and all ways necessary to effect long term change after quitting. That's where I went wrong myself before when I'd had a few years clean.
 
Nsam, how did you combat PAWS? I am thinking of just trying to go hit some full bore exercise (around my clusterfuck issues) and some hot tub action to start getting a proper routine, energy and sleep back. Did this help you?

I do feel ready to give this shit the hell right up now and leave it behind and recover ME and start living my life again and being free of the constant opiate imprisonment!

Thanks Nsam and everyone who's kept me going - I feel love for you guys for helping me making this possible and staying motivated even on my worst days!
 
I don't...I'm deciding what's most important right now, which may very well be getting this job locally, then moving in the summer. I need to be in a better place to quit, my hometown just doesn't have enough to keep me occupied- tried it before. Maybe I'm lying to myself, but I don't want to find out Again.

Some may call it "making excuses," however, we need to live and survive and if you haven't got a job or are not on benefits you are not able to do this. If you are deciding that you want this job then will move and quit when you are in a more stable and better financial situation then that's what you must do. It's your life and only you can decide what's best. You'll get support here. All the best with it, Evey xxxx
 
Nsam, how did you combat PAWS? I am thinking of just trying to go hit some full bore exercise (around my clusterfuck issues) and some hot tub action to start getting a proper routine, energy and sleep back. Did this help you?

I do feel ready to give this shit the hell right up now and leave it behind and recover ME and start living my life again and being free of the constant opiate imprisonment!

Thanks Nsam and everyone who's kept me going - I feel love for you guys for helping me making this possible and staying motivated even on my worst days!

Thanks for the reminder, I thought it was the best course of action.

Hearing your resolve is empowering ; )

I truly believe that a a short term dose of an maoi like selegiline, or another herbal antidepressant (STJ hit or miss, ), to Really help with energy otivation and happiness. It also stimulates me to seek out people, get to know them (all of this twice as much as normally do), and maybe get the best medicine of all, a passionate shag with a healthy supportive partner.
 
Some may call it "making excuses," however, we need to live and survive and if you haven't got a job or are not on benefits you are not able to do this. If you are deciding that you want this job then will move and quit when you are in a more stable and better financial situation then that's what you must do. It's your life and only you can decide what's best. You'll get support here. All the best with it, Evey xxxx

As Evey says, you need a stable living situation before you can commit to a proper detox and the PAWS that follows it. Detoxing is hard enough without worrying about keeping a roof or where the next meal is coming from. If the town you live in is not working for you, a change often rejuvenates things. The thing that helped me was getting a plan with milestones and putting it into action, step by step and when you don't do that, it becomes too easy to get into negative thinking about our lives and go on the downward spiral of tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow and putting off what is really important. Tomorrow never comes.
 
Thanks for the reminder, I thought it was the best course of action.

Hearing your resolve is empowering ; )

I truly believe that a a short term dose of an maoi like selegiline, or another herbal antidepressant (STJ hit or miss, ), to Really help with energy otivation and happiness. It also stimulates me to seek out people, get to know them (all of this twice as much as normally do)....

Resolve becomes eroded as addiction progresses and/or life events begin to grind us down and profoundly affect us or when we struggle to find reasons to quit and create a new life. Sometimes, as dark as things seem and as long as the road to wellness is, it becomes a matter of keeping the faith in a better future. This involves a huge amount of belief and a massive leap of faith when negative self-talk is the ingrained behaviour instead of positivity. Effecting real and lasting behavioural change and healthier thought patterns and beliefs takes work and time.

In the end, resolve is all we really have ultimately as no one can fight this battle for us. I do think for many, it must reach the stage where we want recovery more than anything and we have already reached rock bottom.

Addiction becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when it reaches the stage where the big reward and motivation centres in the brain are damaged and will and resolve are impeded to the point of losing the ability to get up and fight back. We are not just fighting for the innately better life that lies beyond active addiction, but we are also fighting to stop our lives getting far, far worse and losing everything, i.e. jobs, homes, friends, family, health, etc.

I tend to avoid mood altering pharmaceuticals such as anti-depressants, in the absence of my own situation constituting a fundamental depressive illness. It can be hard to differentiate between medicating the fallout of a natural life event or working to build the coping skills without pharmaceutical intervention. I prefer naturally occurring precursors, such as 5-htp, to mood pharmas that create altered physiological processing, especially in the absence of substantive evidence that there is a functional need to "repair" existing faulty processing. Anti-depressants are powerful drugs, not without a longer term chemically altered homeostasis to consider. They should be a last resort when all other options have failed and a real depressive illness is present, or they cause more problems than they assist, particularly in opiate withdrawal scenarios.

I also don't believe that such substances are helpful when utilised as short term interim solutions to a bigger picture, since by the very nature of selecting them to fix a problem outside of their real remit, this already is setting them up to fail in a goal that they are inherently not designed for. We sometimes need to reach deep inside of ourselves instead of relying on a pill to fix the symptomatic issues of a bigger picture. The more of these transient, short term "fixes" we try to deploy, the bigger the repayment in the long term in rebalancing brain chemistry and when mood debt accrues and builds, the cost becomes exponential, until we have no real way back and reach crisis point.
 
I'm feeling good and strong today and definitely much more like my old self and ready to quit this demon and drop the low doses now, especially with physio coming soon. Music is lifting my moods hugely. It's on non-stop when home and ear buds when out, loving reconnecting to loads of old stuff I hadn't heard in ages too!

Nsam, I am considering what you said and trying to get medical go ahead to just do a bout of time limited cold detoxing, 5 days max maybe. Maybe the torture is being dragged out a bit now by tapering, as you say and I just need to bite it. This is week eight.
 
Resolve becomes eroded as addiction progresses and/or life events begin to grind us down and profoundly affect us or when we struggle to find reasons to quit and create a new life. Sometimes, as dark as things seem and as long as the road to wellness is, it becomes a matter of keeping the faith in a better future. This involves a huge amount of belief and a massive leap of faith when negative self-talk is the ingrained behaviour instead of positivity. Effecting real and lasting behavioural change and healthier thought patterns and beliefs takes work and time.

In the end, resolve is all we really have ultimately as no one can fight this battle for us. I do think for many, it must reach the stage where we want recovery more than anything and we have already reached rock bottom.

Addiction becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when it reaches the stage where the big reward and motivation centres in the brain are damaged and will and resolve are impeded to the point of losing the ability to get up and fight back. We are not just fighting for the innately better life that lies beyond active addiction, but we are also fighting to stop our lives getting far, far worse and losing everything, i.e. jobs, homes, friends, family, health, etc.

I tend to avoid mood altering pharmaceuticals such as anti-depressants, in the absence of my own situation constituting a fundamental depressive illness. It can be hard to differentiate between medicating the fallout of a natural life event or working to build the coping skills without pharmaceutical intervention. I prefer naturally occurring precursors, such as 5-htp, to mood pharmas that create altered physiological processing, especially in the absence of substantive evidence that there is a functional need to "repair" existing faulty processing. Anti-depressants are powerful drugs, not without a longer term chemically altered homeostasis to consider. They should be a last resort when all other options have failed and a real depressive illness is present, or they cause more problems than they assist, particularly in opiate withdrawal scenarios.

I also don't believe that such substances are helpful when utilised as short term interim solutions to a bigger picture, since by the very nature of selecting them to fix a problem outside of their real remit, this already is setting them up to fail in a goal that they are inherently not designed for. We sometimes need to reach deep inside of ourselves instead of relying on a pill to fix the symptomatic issues of a bigger picture. The more of these transient, short term "fixes" we try to deploy, the bigger the repayment in the long term in rebalancing brain chemistry and when mood debt accrues and builds, the cost becomes exponential, until we have no real way back and reach crisis point.

The writing abut the consequences is something that, despite thinking about constantly, and reading on here, it Never fails a solidify my resolve and remind me of every reason that I have to be the best I can be. I got a lot of R.E.S.P.E.C.T. for you W2BR, I appreciate the words always. I'm someone who enjoys hearing when they are making a mistake or doing something wrong. Course not in grade school! ^_^

5-htp's cardiac side effects are concerning. Though selegiline (which also metabolizes into small amounts of inactive l-methamphetamine; rasagiline doesn't) I shouldn't be advocating the selegiline- I started it with the blessing of my doctor, and was serious about the MAOI diet and avoidance of most all amine drugs. The withdrawls from the maois are not life threatening and as debilitating as SSRI withdrawl, nor as dangerous. You will be Down, but nothing a taper and a continuance of all those luvly things we do to comfort ourselves: Warm baths, comedies of film and life : ) , running, swimming, sex...all in a row! :P



Because of medical issues I think I'll always have some short term fix, mainly CBD; I know getting back to Yoga and meditation really is the mosgt important part to returning to *Homeostasis* : )
 
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Hi, WantToBeReborn,

I wish I'd seen your thread sooner. It sounds like you've made some amazing progress so far. I don't use that word lightly--opiate withdrawal is one of the hardest withdrawals to experience, and to do successfully. So I applaud your work so far. Especially given the fact that you aren't using a med like methadone or suboxone to help you do it. Opiates have been my DOC for a half of my life (I'm 32). I quit cold turkey in 2008 and remained sober until 2010 when I was in a car accident Slipped all kinds of discs and developed chronic neck and back pain, so opiates became a necessary part of my life. You can imagine what kind of paradox that presented for me. I'm on suboxone now. So I have experience with going to both extremes--a sudden cessation, and maintainance therapy.

I see you are using gabapentin to help--that has worked wonders for me in terms of quieting anxiety, easing RLS, and generally helping with that crawling-out-of-my-skin-i-will-slap-you-if-you-come-near-me feeling. Drinking plenty of water is important (I drink coconut water by the gallon too, the natural electrolytes really help with dehydration.) And if you take a bit of magnesium supplement, it can help with achy joints and bones.

There are also some supplements that I still take this day that assist your brain with neuroplasicity--it will help your brain re-wire itself and regenereate new neurons--and help your body to be able to produce natural endorphins again. I know that right now it seems more important to just be able to sleep, to relax, and to interact with people normally. But the earlier you get your brain function back on track, the earlier your entire mind-body connection with be rejuvenated. That's when you'll be able to enjoy your body's natural endorphins and dopamine systems (from sex, exercise, aroma therapy, chocolate, etc.) and will help decrease the depression that is often created by withdrawal and underlying your drug use in ther first place. The supplements which help most these functions are Omega 3s (fish oil), Folic Acid, B6, and B12.

Aside from taking supplements, I know how difficult it is to simply enjoy things again. Opiates increase our positive sensations so much that when we are off them, it creates this deplorable, constant general malaise and boredom, even if we are trying to fight against this phenomena. What helped me was:

-being out in nature
-being around those I truly love, even if it's just one person, who know what's going on, who doesn't judge you, and can make you laugh, whichyou know is vital to this recovery.
-meditation/yoga (or even just sitting or walking in silence for a few minutes)
-exercise--which can be relentlessly fucking difficult when you are sleep deprived and uncomfortable. But this a big one, the one where you will legitimately feel that you are making progress. Our human bodies want movement. The body wants to move around, our muscles want to be activated and stretched. This is not just the yoga teacher in me talking, it is fact. This is the one activity that is going to make you feel the most free and comfortable, and maybe even good or great! These activities are the things that allowed me to actually experience pleasure, to actually feel joy. Without opiates. It's liberating.

Enough of the advice. I just want to reiterate that you aren't alone in this experience. Many of us have been exactly where you are right now. It's great that you are talking/writing about all the stuff you need to with folks who can genuinely empathize. The idea of taking it one day at a time bears truth: this is a slow and steady process that eventually leads to a positive outcome. You are right, anti-depressants are not the answer. The answer comes from within-from making progess in an alienating, virtual personal hell. Because to put it bluntly, at the end of the day when you are in bed, you should feel an immense amout of pride for getting through just one more day. It's not unlike fighting a war. An internal one. You'll win.

be good to yourself. sending peace,
z
 
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Zwanya, thanks so much for that. Having had crippling disk issues myself for over a decade too, I really do understand where you are coming from. It's like a sickness of the soul on top when addiction to pain meds develops.

I know exactly what you mean about malaise, boredom, loneliness, etc. I'm trying to do this a day at a time.

How do you find the maintenance drug for physical pain?
 
I'm feeling so ill at the moment, I'm trying to just detox off the last bit of this poison, but pain is slamming me, sickness, struggling to hold down fluids or eat much, poor sleeping, anxiety/depression/tearful. Always when I get to this point of trying to just jump off, it becomes unbearable. It just doesn't feel like I'm ever going to be a properly functional human being again that can deal with feelings, day to day life, etc.

But a small miracle has happened. I am losing the desire to use. Having seen how sick this whole tapering process has made me and what a massive drop in tolerance has occurred, I am starting to see this sickness of the soul for what it is. But I just can't seem to push through the last bit of pain and suffering. I'm really struggling with this last step. Anyone got any experience, strength, hope, etc., to share with me to help me?
 
I will be extensively reading threw this thread and many in the dark side as I am truley trying to rid my life of opiates.

I soon hope to be posting in sober living and to be visiting both forums regularly.

Never sick you are a genius! I can barely soak up all this incredible information and ive been read in in these recovery threads for days!
 
Thanks rapper=D Its hard for me not to have picked up a little wisdom with all the mistakes and wrong turns I have made on my insane journey getting utterly lost and trying to find my way home.

It is not necessary for people to be clean and sober to post in SL.. this thread is a great way to find motivation, inspiration, and support.. we fire up a new on every month and its all about Getting and staying clean or sober or free from active addiction. You guys should think about joining in.. March Getting Clean Thread v. If I can do it, you can too!


There are many techniques to use against the PAWS, but the biggest is changing the way we think or the way we choose to perceive what is going on in our lives. when I get a little more time I post some of the things that have helped me allot.


Your really doing great even though it may not feal like it beingreborn!!!
 
To those who truly suffer chronic pain, you are not addicts until you use for fun.
I used Kratom twice a month for a long time to stop wds. My Hydrocodone script was gone in two days and the Roxicodones I boughteach month. were shot up in 2-3 days. Kratom helped those but didn't touch Dilaudid and Opana wds. I just decided to quit shooting them one day. I went into my room and suffered the hell by myself. It was 4 days of brutal
torture and then the physical part was over. I think cold turkey no taper is best. I will never forget that sickness.
 
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