Quitting Methadone (that bastard)

[HerbsQuit]

So i consult with a doc. He said the diarrhea is a rebound from all the codeine and tramal i been taking. Once i stopped my digestive system becomes "normal" while opiate caused constipation. That's why the diarrhea. He said all i need to do is drink a lot of water, ion water with electrolytes, bland food like plain whole wheat bread, carrot and banana. Take immodium if still diarrhea for 7 days and see what happens. If still diarrhea then i got to return to doc.

I honesty can't live with just plain bread and banana for a week , i'm gonna transition slowly starting tomorrow.

As for the sleeping problem he said once the digestive system is fine, no more diarrhea, my sleep will return to normal too.

For vitamins he suggested vit C, vit D3, Zinc, and Iron.

For sleep Valerian or Chamomile, or Gaba+ ltheanine supplement.

He also said no more chemicals. No more medications. My body needs time to adjust and there is no any other way than wait.

 

[HerbsQuit]

Last night for sleep i took 1 magnesium, 1 ibuprofen with vit b complex, 1 5htp, 1 vitd3. Didn't help much coz i have fibromyalgia all over my body especially arms and legs.

Then i massaged cajuput oil on my throat, upper chest, and stomach. In one minute ALL muscle pain gone. I was like wtf?!?

I massaged my temple and forehead with lavender oil and in 5 mins i fell asleep. Also wtf

I woke up at 3am and have fibro again, i guess the cajuput didn't last all night. I went to bed around 11pm. So i just did the same thing. I massaged cajuput oil on throat, and upper chest, muscle pain gone. Then i figured something out. This fibromyalgia must be due to digestive issue like doc said, once it's solved my sleep would return. I took 1 antacid and slept like baby until 6:30am. Fuck. Doc is right.

All i can think about as i wake up this morning, i know that the gut is like our second brain. In fact the bacterias in the gut is known to be able to communicate with our brain directly.

Unlike H where it's shoot or injected to the bloodstream, MTD IS TAKEN ORALLY.

I am also surprised that this morning i woke up, i had a little shock for like a minute because for 13 years i would wake up jumping from bed looking for MTD to drink. This morning i was like that and i had to remind myself i'm not in wd anymore!

I naively thought MTD wd is just 30 days and done. While it is TRUE, but the psychological effect, breaking the habit of putting meds in my mouth every morning, and fixing my digestive issue is not an easy task.

For my brain i have this thing called Miss Willpower. But i cannot control my gut bacterias. Not only me living in my body .

I need to take probiotics, eat healthy, and make my gut return to baseline.

At least now i know all i have to do is fix this digestive problem first and all other symptom like fibromyalgia and insomnia, diarrhea, etc would be gone.

 

[HerbsQuit]

I feel so weird...
At first all emotions and senses are heightened. Now on day 32 or is it 33, i suddenly lost all emotions. I don't feel sad, i don't feel angry, i can't feel love, or compassion, or happy, but i'm not depressed either.
I can laugh when it's funny. That's the only pleasure emotion i got.
I can feel part of my brain numb.

Google said it is the Flat Affect.

Dunno if it's temporary or gonna last permanently.

The guy who checked in on me twice a day was the first to notice, he said my face is emotionless. Well yeah i don't feel any.

I have very restricted emotions right now, it's like only my prefrontal cortex is working and IQ. No EQ whatsoever.

Has anybody experienced this before?

@neversickanymore did u experience something like this when u quit?

 

[neversickanymore]

I feel so weird...
At first all emotions and senses are heightened. Now on day 32 or is it 33, i suddenly lost all emotions. I don't feel sad, i don't feel angry, i can't feel love, or compassion, or happy, but i'm not depressed either.
I can laugh when it's funny. That's the only pleasure emotion i got.
I can feel part of my brain numb.

Google said it is the Flat Affect.

Dunno if it's temporary or gonna last permanently.

The guy who checked in on me twice a day was the first to notice, he said my face is emotionless. Well yeah i don't feel any.

I have very restricted emotions right now, it's like only my prefrontal cortex is working and IQ. No EQ whatsoever.

Has anybody experienced this before?

@neversickanymore did u experience something like this when u quit?

Hey HQ. it’s very common.

After the loss of emotion we can go through a period of intense emotion. We can also fluctuate in between the two.

It's certainly not permanent and we can actively treat it and make ourselves stronger, wiser and more powerful and peaceful in doing so.

Emotion and our thinking have an inherent relationship. Emotion effects thinking and thinking effects emotion. We have control over our thoughts and that puts us in control of our emotions. We have little control over the world, but we have total control over how we think about it.

It does not come in one step forward, but instead comes with a few.. realization, recognition, active change, progress, setback and refinement, more progress and desired or better outcome.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.”
― Marcus Aurelius

“The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts.”
― Marcus Aurelius

“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”
― Marcus Aurelius

“The soul becomes dyed with the colour of its thoughts.”
― Marcus Aurelius

“The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius

“Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself in your way of thinking.”
― Marcus Aurelius

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
-Buddha

The mind is everything. What you think you become.
-Buddha


This is what I was getting at with learning to control your thoughts as you will become the master of your life experience and thus your emotions as well.

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[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I was on Heroin for over a decade. Just that. I was a painfully loyal lover of Mr. H. I didn't cheat on him with Cocaine, Esctacy, or other stimulants. I was a downer 100%.

Then i got on Methadone. For 13 fuckin years. I tapered from 80mg at the start to 40mg then i just take 40-30mg for the last 7 years.

Then my clinic decided to close because the new hospital director is a fuckin asshole who wants money. The government isn't giving the hospital money anymore so that asshole of a director decided to kick us all out. All 70 MTD patients.

Next clinic for me is 45mins away by car, must go through a paid highway. And don't laugh. I can't drive. Never learned. Also isn't allowed as long i am on these meds.

So i tapered again 2mg one week then 3mg one week to 25mg.

Then one morning when i am supposed to be tapered again to 20mg (even faster coz the clinic gonna close in 2 months), i took 1mg Xanax before i went to clinic. Which made me high as hell.

I was so high and so sick of methadone. U know, everytime u taper u have withdrawal. Everytime u taper u have withdrawal again. And again. And again. Especially below 30mg. It's like shit.

So while high on Xanax i told my doctor, "Doc, i want to just stop Methadone right now. Today. That's it. I'm done."

The doctor at first wanted to precribe me 10mg codeine to counter the withdrawal of 25mg methadone.

I told him, "Doc, 10mg codeine for us is like for cockroach. Even cockroach if u give it Methadone everyday then u switch to 10mg codeine it will fly south and crash."

In this stupid country, so many psychiatrist don't know shit about addiction, withdrawals, nor how we feel, nor what happens after such long term of opioid inside our brain. (Don't ask me which country, i have a reason not to say.)

Like seriously, he wanna give a 13 years Methadone patient 10mg codeine for withdrawal. Methadone, which is 5x stronger than Morphine.

So i educated him and told him to give me 100mg codeine + 50mg tramal 4x a day
1mg Xanax 1x a day to be taken as needed only for panic attacks
10mg Diazepam 1x a day to be taken as needed for muscle pain and spasm
0.15 Clonidine 1x a day to be taken as needed for sleep and muscle pain during sleep.
I am no doctor so i just told him these meds from what i researched and asked around.

Now start the next day...no more Methadone (that bastard).
Not saying Methadone is not useful. It HELPED SAVED MY LIFE from being Mr.H's slave for a decade. But after years on Methadone i am no more an addict. At such low dose of 30mg i don't feel high. I drink Methadone only because i am dependent on it so i don't feel withdrawal. Addiction and Dependence is different. Do they call those people dependent on diabetic meds addicts? No. But for us is like everybody thinks us as an addict forever.

Some days i wake up with withdrawal and i think to myself, why in the fuck do i still have to drink this shit? It's not like i have cancer, or spinal injury, or got crashed by a plane.

Not to mention having always to go to clinic. The stigma. People and even my own father look at me like i am some kind of a disease. Limiting my freedom. Inability to travel anywhere more than a week, coz that is the max take home dose they allow.

The first day without Methadone, i woke up as usual at 4:30am. The Methadone in this country never lasted more than 20 hours. No matter how they insist it last 36 hours. It's a lie.

Maybe because it's mixed with syrup? I have no idea. But every patients agrees it never last more than 20 hours.

I had severe panic attack. So severe my legs were shaking non stop and i was walking in circles in my room. I took 100mg codeine + 50mg tramal, still panic attack. So i took Alprazolam 0.5 mg. Nothing. I took again 0.5mg after 40mins. Nothing. I was sweating, had chills, but no muscle pain (yet). I took the codeine+ tramal 4x a day.

Note: i am not a Benzo addict. I only started taking Alprazolam while i was tapering on Methadone from 30mg to 25mg, twice a week.

At night i made a mistake instead of taking the clonidine i took 10mg of Diazepam + VitD3 and Magnesium.

Day 2:
Woke up at 3am.
Still panic attack, sweating, chills, restless leg syndrome, felt like electrocuted from my spinal cord and the muscle pain started. I took 1.5mg Xanax and i felt NOTHING. I was like WTF?! The Diazepam however works. BUT, only in small dose like 5mg. If i take 10mg i started to have weird stings and muscle pain even more. So weird?!

Day 3:
I took my usual codeine+tramal, gave up on Xanax coz i thought maybe if i rest it a day tomorrow it may work for my panic attacks. I took diazepam instead 2x a day 5mg each. And at night 10mg diazepam again to sleep.

Day 4:
Woke up at 3am
As usual codeine+tramal, then i tried again 1mg Xanax, again, nothing. In the afternoon i tried Clobazam 10mg and it works! I was like huh?

I am not a benzo expert, maybe i'm stupid thinking Xanax would help me better.

At night i took clonidine 0.15mg to sleep. I slept like a baby.

Day 5:
I woke up at 5:45am! An improvement! With anxiety, no more panic attacks. But drowsy from Clonidine. Yesterday i also asked my doc to prescribe me clobazam 10mg 4x a day. I took them with the codeine+tramal. I was so drowsy whole day. Before day 5 i could not feel the opiate/opioid i assume because my Methadone is still blocking them. At night i didn't take the clobazam nor clonidine but i took 5mg Diazepam. Again, big mistake.

Day 6 (today)
I woke up still with some anxiety but not as intense, at 3am. I should have took clonidine, i would have slept better. I woke up because some fibromyalgia while laying down, which gets better if i stand up/ wake up.
I took codeine+tramal again, same dose. I should have asked my doc to taper the dose but i heard Methadone's withdrawal is the same day to day up to 15 days unlike H's withdrawal that goes down each day.
I havent take the clobazam. Doc said clobazam is safer than xanax coz it doesnt build tolerance.
But it makes me so drowsy like a Zombie.
Today i also feel needle like pain on my right lower stomach just on the right side above the navel, i can only pray it isn't my kidney complaining due to all these strong meds.
I am 45 years old. And scared to death of Benzo addiction from what i read around. Which could cause seizure even death. However my doc told me, "If you need it, you need it. Take it for now and we'll plan later after day 15."

I imagine in my mind, "Shiet, by day 15 i would be a Benzo addict. Right? Right?!?"

But now i also feel depressed. I need that happy euphoric feeling of Xanax. Which doesnt do anything to me anymore. OMG am i craving benzo already.

I want to try SSRI, i have zoloft and escitalopram but scared to take it. If i remember correctly SSRI stops opiate/opioid from working. So maybe this will cause me withdrawal. I'm not sure.

I also have no idea why the xanax was working when i was on Methadone. Then stopped working instantly like a bitch when i am on Codeine + Tramal?

I read that benzo blocks opiate or something like that but never heard of opiate blocks benzo.

Is it the codeine? Is it the tramal?

But isn't Diazepam and Clobazam benzos too? Why they work?!?

I am so depressed right now i don't know what to do. Now it's still early in the morning, i'll probably come back and update...

I should probably note I WAS drinking off-and-on during the methadone withdrawal, which aided in things like anxiety and sleep.
I was only on like 50mg but was using small amounts of heroin, so had the methadone increased to 65mg and quit the heroin cold turkey that day. It went totally fine. Zero withdrawal, but I waited 10 days anyway to make sure I was totally used to zero heroin.
Then - very much against medical advice - I went cold turkey from the 65mg/day methadone.
I was pretty much fine (nothing literally a couple beers wouldn't mask) for like 10 days apart from a little extra sweating and a LOT extra libido (I remember one day I jerked off 5 times in less than 2 hours and not because I wanted to but felt like I HAD to) and then BAMMMMM full-blown acute opioid withdrawal like you'd expect from heroin or oxy or whatever expect that instead of around 6-7 days the acute phase lasted TEN WEEKS.
Honestly don't know how I did it.
I definitely think the beer helped (and I was mostly using that to maintain as I was also alcohol dependant and alcohol withdrawal is the only thing worse than opioid withdrawal...like fuck was I doing both at once) and I used coke and/or valium some days.

 

[neversickanymore]

How are you doing HQ.. @HerbsQuit

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I hear bupe also attacks the heart valves. I have been on bupe over a decade and just so happen to have a dodgy heart valve.

Hey, thanks for sharing.

I'm curious where you found this? Wondering what mechanism bupe has that would make it attack heart valves.
I could see it if you're injecting bupe, as any drug can cause infection & damage to the heart by bacteria.

I wouldn't be surprised though since it can cause strokes, etc...

I always remember seeing that warning in the bupe pamphlet "may increase cerebral pressure".
That would explain why I had insane headaches for 6 months straight when starting the shit.
Never looked into it though until recently. And apparently it's exclusive to partial agonists.

I had my heart checked recently on an EKG and some other stuff & the doc said my heart was fine.
But I've been having strange heart palpatation-like sensations for the past, idk, year or so. Feels like my heart or something in the center of my chest stops beating for a few seconds & I'll get a strange sensation there. Almost like my stomach just flipped over or like an icey tingling sensation with the sensation of going down an elevator. I have no idea if this is just normal "heart palpitations" or what it is, but they came out of the blue a year ago & happen every once in awhile randomly.
Anyone else out there every get a feeling like this?


Of course methadone can cause long QT. So they really have some 'healthy' alternatives for us. *eye roll*


Over all, I'd rather deal with taking heroin or hydromorphone intransally. A few times a day & I'd be good to go. Not worrying about my head exploding or heart failing.

 

[Señor Moreno]

Are you ok, Herbsquit?

 

[kongoman]

y demasiada lyrica me hizo tropezar borracho; No bebo, pero recuerda lo que es caer borracho y Lyrica puede hacerlo sin duda. Creo que mi médico se refirió a esto como alcohol en una pastilla en algún momento.

 

[kongoman]

@HerbsQuit He leído todo su programa MTD wd y estoy orgulloso de usted. Sé muy bien qué es un opioide wd y no es fácil de tratar. Es fácil parar y seguir para su MTD o H. La clonidina es el mejor medicamento para los opioides wd, combinado con benzos y saber con pregabalina. Cuéntanos cómo te sientes.
love

 

[Anthonysymington1967]

We all are comprised of an amazing and intertwined complex system.. so the "web" refers to a spider web and is a metaphor I used to represent the complex inter dynamics that are us. homeostasis of our complex system is what we are looking to achieve.

Look at you timelines.. your regularly adding in substances to try and self regulate the incredibly complex inter dynamics of your system, that no one yet fully understands.. well except many of us do unconsciously.

So most peoples systems know what to do to get back to homeostasis.. but its fucking kinda slow and the process is uncomfortable to say the least. so we go in and try and help the process along by adding chemicals that may make us temporarily feel "decent" or sorta better.

The thing is we need to add the right chemicals or we just continue to scramble the system for a little bit of reprieve.. only to find ourselves back at it after our attempt wears off and as the process evolves our conditions often worsen and we deal with side effects.

So how do we help the system return to homeostasis on its own? We have to add in the behaviors and chemicals that benefit and promote our and its end goals.

Can't just try and manipulate single strands, its a web. Big pictures and some time and some bloody misery,

I also get it there are so many people that need and deserve pain relief. both physical and emotional.

but when you are treated with something that only is beneficial short term and makes things worse long term we need to come up with much better.

What an outstanding post, for me this totally hits the spot and I agree on it all, I won’t pretend to have as good an understanding as you but I definitely believe along the same ideas as you. Crazy thing is sadly ideas like this don’t really get taken in or used by the main stream heads of health services , they just fob it off as “crazy talk” if it’s not a pill or other type of med that can make huge money they don’t want to think about it . Strange thing is I would of been of a similar mind and even just 5 years ago I would of told you Russel brand was an idiot , now I think he’s actually brilliant and I’ve learned so much stuff from his podcasts. I guess if nothing else my point would be if you can take the steps to listen to others , especially this you think are total nonsense , listen to them with a clear and understanding head and sometimes you will be suprised.

 

[Fungus_Am0nguz]

You are doing great Herbs, what day are you today? Are you ok? Hope you are bro, I myself im on day 7 from a 20 mg jump and to be totally honest it hasnt been that difficult, its true what some 'done OG say "everybody is different and some plp blow it out of proportion", shit has been , not a walk in the park, but that bad. I was really prepare with my jumping meds and make a post if anyone of interested. And Herbs hope you are doing good.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

sending love HerbsQuit.. I jumped 80mgpd methadone 260mgpd Roxie and 4 mgpd Xanax.. its been almost ten years.

its misery getting out, but it can be done. my silly ass made it out. How can I help you

This blows my mind, I can’t imagine how rough that must have been. I’ve done some fairly big jump offs in my time but this is insane.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Props btw that’s very impressive! Ten years clean afterwards even more so.

 

[HerbsQuit]

You are doing great Herbs, what day are you today? Are you ok? Hope you are bro, I myself im on day 7 from a 20 mg jump and to be totally honest it hasnt been that difficult, its true what some 'done OG say "everybody is different and some plp blow it out of proportion", shit has been , not a walk in the park, but that bad. I was really prepare with my jumping meds and make a post if anyone of interested. And Herbs hope you are doing good.

My last dose was August 1st i believe. The quitting was brutal. But the PAWS is even brutal. Until today i still feel burning and stinging on my arms, fingers, i have IBS, Fibromyalgia, hip pain, back pain, extreme muscle weakness, loss of appetite, anxiety...
I tried Pregabalin as per my psychiatrist instruction. Helps on the day i take it but next day is like i just got poisoned from it. Nausea, my body is like made of lubber, i don't give a fuck about people (like psychopath), cannot breathe, muscle pain, etc. So i quit pregab now and take Xanax 0.25mg -1mg or Diazepam 2.5mg-10mg depending if it is anxiety/ panic attack or if it is accompanied by extreme muscle pain.
Im going crazy. The only way i can stop this pain as i know now is by benzodiazepines.
I feel like im in the circle of satan, quitting opioid and gone into benzo. Don't know which one is more dangerous.
I was very happy when i managed to quit MTD. But never expected the after effect to be so horrible. At times i stare into space and like...i was happier on MTD. Now it's just SHIT of endless PAWS. Sometimes i feel like i want to just die.
I don't know how long this will go on. I don't have anybody to talk to. I don't even know how im gonna live after this. I don't want to be on benzo forever. But it's the only shit right now that i know of that can relieve me of all my symptoms.
Maybe i need my brain MRI-ed. But of course the outcome will be like...u know...abnormal. What can one expect from 13years of MTD use...
Maybe i should go to internist...and say what...
Maybe i should return to my psychiatrist...but he'll just give me more benzo or anti depressants...
I honestly don't know what to do...
Once u r out of withdrawal, lemme know if u find a way to fight the PAWS. I really need someone who i can exchange information with.

 

[Fungus_Am0nguz]

My last dose was August 1st i believe. The quitting was brutal. But the PAWS is even brutal. Until today i still feel burning and stinging on my arms, fingers, i have IBS, Fibromyalgia, hip pain, back pain, extreme muscle weakness, loss of appetite, anxiety...
I tried Pregabalin as per my psychiatrist instruction. Helps on the day i take it but next day is like i just got poisoned from it. Nausea, my body is like made of lubber, i don't give a fuck about people (like psychopath), cannot breathe, muscle pain, etc. So i quit pregab now and take Xanax 0.25mg -1mg or Diazepam 2.5mg-10mg depending if it is anxiety/ panic attack or if it is accompanied by extreme muscle pain.
Im going crazy. The only way i can stop this pain as i know now is by benzodiazepines.
I feel like im in the circle of satan, quitting opioid and gone into benzo. Don't know which one is more dangerous.
I was very happy when i managed to quit MTD. But never expected the after effect to be so horrible. At times i stare into space and like...i was happier on MTD. Now it's just SHIT of endless PAWS. Sometimes i feel like i want to just die.
I don't know how long this will go on. I don't have anybody to talk to. I don't even know how im gonna live after this. I don't want to be on benzo forever. But it's the only shit right now that i know of that can relieve me of all my symptoms.
Maybe i need my brain MRI-ed. But of course the outcome will be like...u know...abnormal. What can one expect from 13years of MTD use...
Maybe i should go to internist...and say what...
Maybe i should return to my psychiatrist...but he'll just give me more benzo or anti depressants...
I honestly don't know what to do...
Once u r out of withdrawal, lemme know if u find a way to fight the PAWS. I really need someone who i can exchange information with.

Fuck man, im sorry to heard that you are still going into such heavy PAWS. I mean im really happy you are opioids free but at what cost, no matter, keep hanging in there buddy. You know i have a friend that i made in rehab once, the dude was there before i got there and was counting the days were he hit 100 days without methadone because he had heard or read that after those 100 days it was like night and day. I think when i got in the rehab he was at 82 or something, let me tell you the mind is something else because when he hit that 100 days (when he saw me every morning he ALWAYS used to tell me the day he was at, 93 94 etc.) he became more active, he was happier, it was a milestone for him, he also had a 10 years + MTD, it was such a trip. Im trying to say that the mind and attitude is a very powerful mechanism, look at my case, for this kick (i jumped at 20 mg, today is day 8) i was ready not only ready with the meds but with the mind and honestly it hasnt been that brutal at all. What you are going through it takes a man with a fucking mission to go through, real talk. Maybe you could see a different dr or a nutritionist or take up some exercise activity or iboga (ive done it twice) but whatever you decide to do keep hanging in there brother. Anyways I hope you find some peace dude, you deserved it. Take care.

 

[James Peach]

herbsquit you know methadone syrup doesnt have sugar in it that a myth as well as it getting into your bones. Methadone actually isnt sweet sugar its a chemical taste like stevia or something lol. I just got onto methadone week 6 im at 105 mgs, my clinic doctor is able to increase the dose 10 mgs every 4-5 days but i have to have a full sit down conversation meeting and a pee test every single time... ive had 5 appointments since induction at 55 mgs and theyre repetitive, and make me feel like im drug seeking by asking for more and more. But honestly from fent to to methadone 105 doesnt cut it. I cant go out and i have cold runny nose almost always.

Is this normal for anyone? is it because i abused benzos and detoxed off them recently? Maybe because i smoked fetty here and there while on methadone it kind of defeated the purpose? What is a normal dose that people felt normal on methadone where they could function and work?

 

[HerbsQuit]

herbsquit you know methadone syrup doesnt have sugar in it that a myth as well as it getting into your bones. Methadone actually isnt sweet sugar its a chemical taste like stevia or something lol. I just got onto methadone week 6 im at 105 mgs, my clinic doctor is able to increase the dose 10 mgs every 4-5 days but i have to have a full sit down conversation meeting and a pee test every single time... ive had 5 appointments since induction at 55 mgs and theyre repetitive, and make me feel like im drug seeking by asking for more and more. But honestly from fent to to methadone 105 doesnt cut it. I cant go out and i have cold runny nose almost always.

Is this normal for anyone? is it because i abused benzos and detoxed off them recently? Maybe because i smoked fetty here and there while on methadone it kind of defeated the purpose? What is a normal dose that people felt normal on methadone where they could function and work?

My normal dose was 25mg-30mg. Higher gives more intense high but also very sleepy whole day. My sweet spot was 40mg. Dosage really depends on what u take before (H, Fent, Oxy, What), if u have HIV (since HIV meds reduce mtd effectiveness), how long u been on MTD. First one year it's normal to be on higher dose until u turn ur life around (living somewhat more like a normal human being, ur cravings gone, addiction psychology gone) then u can slowly taper down. And u shouldnt be abusing other opioids while on MTD...
MTD is best used alone, not in combination with benzo or other opioid or lyrica if ur purpose is to quit...
It may take awhile before u get the therapeutic effect and is "satisfied" with just MTD alone. U should tell ur doctor ur dose doesnt cut it for now. Eventually it will be enough and after some time u will get so sick of it u will want to taper down...

 

[HerbsQuit]

Fuck man, im sorry to heard that you are still going into such heavy PAWS. I mean im really happy you are opioids free but at what cost, no matter, keep hanging in there buddy. You know i have a friend that i made in rehab once, the dude was there before i got there and was counting the days were he hit 100 days without methadone because he had heard or read that after those 100 days it was like night and day. I think when i got in the rehab he was at 82 or something, let me tell you the mind is something else because when he hit that 100 days (when he saw me every morning he ALWAYS used to tell me the day he was at, 93 94 etc.) he became more active, he was happier, it was a milestone for him, he also had a 10 years + MTD, it was such a trip. Im trying to say that the mind and attitude is a very powerful mechanism, look at my case, for this kick (i jumped at 20 mg, today is day 8) i was ready not only ready with the meds but with the mind and honestly it hasnt been that brutal at all. What you are going through it takes a man with a fucking mission to go through, real talk. Maybe you could see a different dr or a nutritionist or take up some exercise activity or iboga (ive done it twice) but whatever you decide to do keep hanging in there brother. Anyways I hope you find some peace dude, you deserved it. Take care.

I wish i can say i'll man it up, but i can't, coz i don't have a dick. I tried SSRI last night and the effect is so horrible. I vomit continuously, my whole body feels like ants crawling and i could feel my brain was burning. From this at least i know:
1. I may have more serotonin than normal
2. This PAWS may be due my neurotransmitters firing faster than "normal" or than what my body is used to since no more MTD to slow them down.
3. I need something to calm my brain. My brain does work like a ferrari as if i'm continuously on double shot of espresso. Mania?
4. All the meds that i took while on MTD vs now feels completely different. Xanax used to give me slurred speech and euphoria while on MTD. Now it's just calming me down or knock me to sleep even at just 0.5mg. Zero euphoria.
SSRI used to knock me out to sleep while on MTD now is opposite.

MTD withdrawal also doesnt come on full blown until about day 11.
The PAWS come later about 1-2 months after MTD is undetectable in ur system. Im guessing this asshole PAWS also has something to do with the meds i was taking to quit the MTD itself. During my war with MTD it took me a month of daily dosing of so many different kinds of meds. Then i had to quit the Codeine. Then i had to quit the Pregab. Now i don't know how i can quit the Benzo...i wish i could quit MTD cold turkey, probably would have been faster.

 

[somnilicious]

My last dose was August 1st i believe. The quitting was brutal. But the PAWS is even brutal. Until today i still feel burning and stinging on my arms, fingers, i have IBS, Fibromyalgia, hip pain, back pain, extreme muscle weakness, loss of appetite, anxiety...
I tried Pregabalin as per my psychiatrist instruction. Helps on the day i take it but next day is like i just got poisoned from it. Nausea, my body is like made of lubber, i don't give a fuck about people (like psychopath), cannot breathe, muscle pain, etc. So i quit pregab now and take Xanax 0.25mg -1mg or Diazepam 2.5mg-10mg depending if it is anxiety/ panic attack or if it is accompanied by extreme muscle pain.
Im going crazy. The only way i can stop this pain as i know now is by benzodiazepines.
I feel like im in the circle of satan, quitting opioid and gone into benzo. Don't know which one is more dangerous.
I was very happy when i managed to quit MTD. But never expected the after effect to be so horrible. At times i stare into space and like...i was happier on MTD. Now it's just SHIT of endless PAWS. Sometimes i feel like i want to just die.
I don't know how long this will go on. I don't have anybody to talk to. I don't even know how im gonna live after this. I don't want to be on benzo forever. But it's the only shit right now that i know of that can relieve me of all my symptoms.
Maybe i need my brain MRI-ed. But of course the outcome will be like...u know...abnormal. What can one expect from 13years of MTD use...
Maybe i should go to internist...and say what...
Maybe i should return to my psychiatrist...but he'll just give me more benzo or anti depressants...
I honestly don't know what to do...
Once u r out of withdrawal, lemme know if u find a way to fight the PAWS. I really need someone who i can exchange information with.

The long PAWS of methadone withdrawal is the hard part. Worse than the withdrawal, though it can be difficult itself. I withdrew from 12yrs of methadone and benzodiazapines. It does get better. I said I would never take methadone again but here I am back on methadone 7yrs later so I'll have to do half of it again. Sending you my love and prayers. Hang in there and slowly you'll start to notice the improvements. Be careful with the benzos because believe it or not the withdrawal and PAWS can get much, much worse than methadone.