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Prophetic/Precognitive Dreams

Surely synchronicity (as described above) wouldn't account for "phrophetic/precognitive" occurences tho - more like telepathy insofar as I can understand it.
 
B9 said:
Surely synchronicity (as described above) wouldn't account for "phrophetic/precognitive" occurences tho - more like telepathy insofar as I can understand it.
Click to expand...

^^^Hello B9, I don't believe I met you before (nice to meet you), (nearly 33.000 posts? Astonomical ammount, it made me dizzy just looking at the number!). You might find the information below interesting to your query.
I hope you enjoy the read! LivingITM



http://www.thejungiansociety.org/Jung Society/e-journal/Volume-2/Lorenz-2006.pdf
http://improverse.com/ed-articles/richard_wilkerson_2002_sep_psi_research.htm
http://parapolitics.info/category/alex-jones/



SYNCHRONICITY, CAUSALITY, AND ACAUSALITY.

Much criticism has been leveled at C. G. Jung's theory of synchronicity, usually as a result of misunderstanding certain key, but often obscure, concepts used by Jung in his major essay Synchronicity (1960). The issues of meaningfulness, causality, and acausality are discussed, because synchronicity is by definition "a coincidence in time of two or more causally unrelated events which have the same or a similar meaning" (Jung, 1960, para. 849). Synchronicity is contrasted with coincidence as a "meaningless chance grouping," and the Law of Large Numbers is shown not to give account of all cases of ostensible synchronicity. Braude's (1979) philosophical criticism against synchronicity stems partly from an incomplete consideration of Jung's understanding of the word "meaning," and the semantic quandary of what constitutes a cause and what constitutes contingence. Quantum mechanics has forced the marginalization of historical (efficient) causality as the only cause-and-effect explanation of all phenomen a, while scientific (sufficient) causality explains on pragmatic grounds both quantum effects and paranormal phenomena (psi) because they have "consistency and repeatability" (Mansfield, Rhine-Feather, & Hall, 1998, p.20). Mansfield et al. argue that psi is historically acausal but scientifically causal, whereas synchronistic phenomena (also historically acausal) are too "sporadic and unpredictable" (p. 20) to be considered scientifically causal. Jung's (1960) and Braud's (1983) experiments challenge this latter assumption. Both synchronicity and psi are chance-like in manifestation, but their effects can be determined statistically.

http://www.asklepia.org/chaostheory/chaostheory.html
http://www.creativespirit.net/ufodream/

Anomalous Nocturnal Experiences (ANEs) are extraordinary phenomena of enormous significance. People from diverse cultures worldwide are impacted by their effects. The ANE is like a dream with the quality of a vision, it often involves non-human entities, and it takes place while the human experiencer is asleep or in another altered state of consciousness. ANEs may offer clues to some of the mysteries of the universe.

Carl G. Jung, renowned Swiss psychiatrist, commands universal respect as one of the greatest minds of the twentieth century. He shared this tantalizing ANE in his autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/MarkBeddow1.11.04.pdf
Arthur Koestler’s book ‘The Roots of Coincidence’. (1989)

http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm?volumeID
http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm/volumeID_

http://siivola.org/monte/papers_grouped/copyrighted/parapsychology_&_psi/Parapsychology.htm

http://www.zynet.co.uk/imprint/Tucson/5.html

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/MarkBeddow1.11.04.pdf


Why Does Synchronicity Happen:

Demonstrates the unity of psyche and matter, forcing us to transcend our rational, scientific, materialistic attitudes. Mansfield, 1995. Synchronicity, Science, and Soul-making.

Synchronistic events provide an immediate religious experience as a direct encounter with the compensatory patterning of events in nature as a whole, both inwardly and outwardly.

Synchronicity reveals the meaningful connections between the subjective and objective world.


Essential Characteristics of the Synchronistic Event

1) The specific intrapsychic state of the subject defined as one of the following:

a) The unconscious content which, in accordance with the compensatory needs of the conscious orientation, enters consciousness [something is in our conscious]

b) The conscious orientation of the subject around which the compensatory synchronistic activity centers [something happens concerning what is in our mind]

2) An objective event corresponds with this intrapsychic state [may be literal or figurative correspondence]

a) The objective event as a compensatory equivalent to the unconscious compensatory content

b) The objective event as the sole compensatory of the ego-consciousness

3) Even though the intrapsychic state and the objective event may be synchronous according to clock time and spatially near to each other, the objective event may, contrary to this, be distant in time and/or space in relation to the intrapsychic state [as in telepathy, clairvoyance, etc.]

4) The intrapsychic state and the objective event are not causally related to each other [acausality]

5) The synchronistic event is meaningful [excludes some coincidence, but does not require the meaning to be understood]

a) The intrapsychic state and the objective event as meaningful parallels

b) The numinous charge associated with the synchronistic experience [feeling of spiritual experience]

c) Import of the subjective-level interpretation [the content must reflect back on the issues of the individual]

d) the archetypal level of meaning [transcends the individual and implies absolute knowledge].
 
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I find that stories of precognitive dreams are quite common, usually to do with someone's death. I've only had one - when I was younger I had a dream in which our maid called to say that her daughter had passed away, and I was woken up a bit later by that phone call. Very weird. My cousin dreamt that my grandfather came to her to tell her that he had died. One of my closest friends (who is pretty psychic even in waking life) has had several. I'd go into detail about her experiences, because they are pretty incredible, but I'm not sure how personal they are to her and don't feel comfortable posting them on a public forum. I'm quite sure I've spoken to many more people that have had experiences like this. So yea, I'm a believer.
 
LivingInTheMoment said:
It's funny that science creates something as fact, when the pattern repeats itself enough times indefinately, in a large number. Yet some who become involved in science don't accept prophetic dreams as being prophetic-when in fact the experience repeats itself to a large number of people so often, and on a wide scale worldwide.

Well Freud accepted this phenomenon, that many specific kind of people with telepathic qualities have prophetic dreams!
The young science students of today like to place it on the beauty of nature and simple coincidence unrelated to any preconscious awareness of this upcoming event!??????
Click to expand...

I find it a little bit funny that you denounce science as unable to answer questions regarding a lot of these extraordinary claims, but when you find something that might support your ideas, then you try to use science to back up your claims. It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Freud had a lot of bizarre ideas and theories, most of which have been discredited a long time ago. Scientists have crafted experiments to test telepathy and precognition, all with no results.

The problem is that there are more likely explanations for feelings of precognition that don't actually involve precognition. Not only that, but there has been no valid mechanism to explain why precognition might occur. So, in absence of any good theories or sound evidence, the large majority of experts in these fields have written these ideas off a while back.
 
LivingInTheMoment said:
^^^Hello B9, I don't believe I met you before (nice to meet you), (nearly 33.000 posts? Astonomical ammount, it made me dizzy just looking at the number!). You might find the information below interesting to your query.
I hope you enjoy the read! LivingITM



http://www.thejungiansociety.org/Jung Society/e-journal/Volume-2/Lorenz-2006.pdf
http://improverse.com/ed-articles/richard_wilkerson_2002_sep_psi_research.htm
http://parapolitics.info/category/alex-jones/



SYNCHRONICITY, CAUSALITY, AND ACAUSALITY.

Much criticism has been leveled at C. G. Jung's theory of synchronicity, usually as a result of misunderstanding certain key, but often obscure, concepts used by Jung in his major essay Synchronicity (1960). The issues of meaningfulness, causality, and acausality are discussed, because synchronicity is by definition "a coincidence in time of two or more causally unrelated events which have the same or a similar meaning" (Jung, 1960, para. 849). Synchronicity is contrasted with coincidence as a "meaningless chance grouping," and the Law of Large Numbers is shown not to give account of all cases of ostensible synchronicity. Braude's (1979) philosophical criticism against synchronicity stems partly from an incomplete consideration of Jung's understanding of the word "meaning," and the semantic quandary of what constitutes a cause and what constitutes contingence. Quantum mechanics has forced the marginalization of historical (efficient) causality as the only cause-and-effect explanation of all phenomen a, while scientific (sufficient) causality explains on pragmatic grounds both quantum effects and paranormal phenomena (psi) because they have "consistency and repeatability" (Mansfield, Rhine-Feather, & Hall, 1998, p.20). Mansfield et al. argue that psi is historically acausal but scientifically causal, whereas synchronistic phenomena (also historically acausal) are too "sporadic and unpredictable" (p. 20) to be considered scientifically causal. Jung's (1960) and Braud's (1983) experiments challenge this latter assumption. Both synchronicity and psi are chance-like in manifestation, but their effects can be determined statistically.

http://www.asklepia.org/chaostheory/chaostheory.html
http://www.creativespirit.net/ufodream/

Anomalous Nocturnal Experiences (ANEs) are extraordinary phenomena of enormous significance. People from diverse cultures worldwide are impacted by their effects. The ANE is like a dream with the quality of a vision, it often involves non-human entities, and it takes place while the human experiencer is asleep or in another altered state of consciousness. ANEs may offer clues to some of the mysteries of the universe.

Carl G. Jung, renowned Swiss psychiatrist, commands universal respect as one of the greatest minds of the twentieth century. He shared this tantalizing ANE in his autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/MarkBeddow1.11.04.pdf
Arthur Koestler’s book ‘The Roots of Coincidence’. (1989)

http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm?volumeID
http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm/volumeID_

http://siivola.org/monte/papers_grouped/copyrighted/parapsychology_&_psi/Parapsychology.htm

http://www.zynet.co.uk/imprint/Tucson/5.html

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/MarkBeddow1.11.04.pdf


Why Does Synchronicity Happen:

Demonstrates the unity of psyche and matter, forcing us to transcend our rational, scientific, materialistic attitudes. Mansfield, 1995. Synchronicity, Science, and Soul-making.

Synchronistic events provide an immediate religious experience as a direct encounter with the compensatory patterning of events in nature as a whole, both inwardly and outwardly.

Synchronicity reveals the meaningful connections between the subjective and objective world.


Essential Characteristics of the Synchronistic Event

1) The specific intrapsychic state of the subject defined as one of the following:

a) The unconscious content which, in accordance with the compensatory needs of the conscious orientation, enters consciousness [something is in our conscious]

b) The conscious orientation of the subject around which the compensatory synchronistic activity centers [something happens concerning what is in our mind]

2) An objective event corresponds with this intrapsychic state [may be literal or figurative correspondence]

a) The objective event as a compensatory equivalent to the unconscious compensatory content

b) The objective event as the sole compensatory of the ego-consciousness

3) Even though the intrapsychic state and the objective event may be synchronous according to clock time and spatially near to each other, the objective event may, contrary to this, be distant in time and/or space in relation to the intrapsychic state [as in telepathy, clairvoyance, etc.]

4) The intrapsychic state and the objective event are not causally related to each other [acausality]

5) The synchronistic event is meaningful [excludes some coincidence, but does not require the meaning to be understood]

a) The intrapsychic state and the objective event as meaningful parallels

b) The numinous charge associated with the synchronistic experience [feeling of spiritual experience]

c) Import of the subjective-level interpretation [the content must reflect back on the issues of the individual]

d) the archetypal level of meaning [transcends the individual and implies absolute knowledge].
Click to expand...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Synchronicity has never been shown to more than coincidence coupled with the desire for humans to find patterns. That is why it is at the fringe of scientific literature and is not embraced by a majority of scientists.
 
LivingInTheMoment said:
^^^Hello B9, I don't believe I met you before (nice to meet you), (nearly 33.000 posts? Astonomical ammount, it made me dizzy just looking at the number!). You might find the information below interesting to your query.
I hope you enjoy the read! LivingITM



http://www.thejungiansociety.org/Jung Society/e-journal/Volume-2/Lorenz-2006.pdf
http://improverse.com/ed-articles/richard_wilkerson_2002_sep_psi_research.htm
http://parapolitics.info/category/alex-jones/



SYNCHRONICITY, CAUSALITY, AND ACAUSALITY.

Much criticism has been leveled at C. G. Jung's theory of synchronicity, usually as a result of misunderstanding certain key, but often obscure, concepts used by Jung in his major essay Synchronicity (1960). The issues of meaningfulness, causality, and acausality are discussed, because synchronicity is by definition "a coincidence in time of two or more causally unrelated events which have the same or a similar meaning" (Jung, 1960, para. 849). Synchronicity is contrasted with coincidence as a "meaningless chance grouping," and the Law of Large Numbers is shown not to give account of all cases of ostensible synchronicity. Braude's (1979) philosophical criticism against synchronicity stems partly from an incomplete consideration of Jung's understanding of the word "meaning," and the semantic quandary of what constitutes a cause and what constitutes contingence. Quantum mechanics has forced the marginalization of historical (efficient) causality as the only cause-and-effect explanation of all phenomen a, while scientific (sufficient) causality explains on pragmatic grounds both quantum effects and paranormal phenomena (psi) because they have "consistency and repeatability" (Mansfield, Rhine-Feather, & Hall, 1998, p.20). Mansfield et al. argue that psi is historically acausal but scientifically causal, whereas synchronistic phenomena (also historically acausal) are too "sporadic and unpredictable" (p. 20) to be considered scientifically causal. Jung's (1960) and Braud's (1983) experiments challenge this latter assumption. Both synchronicity and psi are chance-like in manifestation, but their effects can be determined statistically.

http://www.asklepia.org/chaostheory/chaostheory.html
http://www.creativespirit.net/ufodream/

Anomalous Nocturnal Experiences (ANEs) are extraordinary phenomena of enormous significance. People from diverse cultures worldwide are impacted by their effects. The ANE is like a dream with the quality of a vision, it often involves non-human entities, and it takes place while the human experiencer is asleep or in another altered state of consciousness. ANEs may offer clues to some of the mysteries of the universe.

Carl G. Jung, renowned Swiss psychiatrist, commands universal respect as one of the greatest minds of the twentieth century. He shared this tantalizing ANE in his autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/MarkBeddow1.11.04.pdf
Arthur Koestler’s book ‘The Roots of Coincidence’. (1989)

http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm?volumeID
http://www.thepsychologist.org.uk/archive/archive_home.cfm/volumeID_

http://siivola.org/monte/papers_grouped/copyrighted/parapsychology_&_psi/Parapsychology.htm

http://www.zynet.co.uk/imprint/Tucson/5.html

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/MarkBeddow1.11.04.pdf


Why Does Synchronicity Happen:

Demonstrates the unity of psyche and matter, forcing us to transcend our rational, scientific, materialistic attitudes. Mansfield, 1995. Synchronicity, Science, and Soul-making.

Synchronistic events provide an immediate religious experience as a direct encounter with the compensatory patterning of events in nature as a whole, both inwardly and outwardly.

Synchronicity reveals the meaningful connections between the subjective and objective world.


Essential Characteristics of the Synchronistic Event

1) The specific intrapsychic state of the subject defined as one of the following:

a) The unconscious content which, in accordance with the compensatory needs of the conscious orientation, enters consciousness [something is in our conscious]

b) The conscious orientation of the subject around which the compensatory synchronistic activity centers [something happens concerning what is in our mind]

2) An objective event corresponds with this intrapsychic state [may be literal or figurative correspondence]

a) The objective event as a compensatory equivalent to the unconscious compensatory content

b) The objective event as the sole compensatory of the ego-consciousness

3) Even though the intrapsychic state and the objective event may be synchronous according to clock time and spatially near to each other, the objective event may, contrary to this, be distant in time and/or space in relation to the intrapsychic state [as in telepathy, clairvoyance, etc.]

4) The intrapsychic state and the objective event are not causally related to each other [acausality]

5) The synchronistic event is meaningful [excludes some coincidence, but does not require the meaning to be understood]

a) The intrapsychic state and the objective event as meaningful parallels

b) The numinous charge associated with the synchronistic experience [feeling of spiritual experience]

c) Import of the subjective-level interpretation [the content must reflect back on the issues of the individual]

d) the archetypal level of meaning [transcends the individual and implies absolute knowledge].
Click to expand...
Repeat
 
Enlitx said:
Synchronicity has never been shown to more than coincidence coupled with the desire for humans to find patterns. That is why it is at the fringe of scientific literature and is not embraced by a majority of scientists.
Click to expand...

the majority of scientists are idiots.

my life is one big deja vu moment. it's scary.

not quite really, but i dream up my reality quite frequently.
 
Enlitx said:
I find it a little bit funny that you denounce science as unable to answer questions regarding a lot of these extraordinary claims, but when you find something that might support your ideas, then you try to use science to back up your claims. It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Freud had a lot of bizarre ideas and theories, most of which have been discredited a long time ago. Scientists have crafted experiments to test telepathy and precognition, all with no results.

The problem is that there are more likely explanations for feelings of precognition that don't actually involve precognition. Not only that, but there has been no valid mechanism to explain why precognition might occur. So, in absence of any good theories or sound evidence, the large majority of experts in these fields have written these ideas off a while back.
Click to expand...

QUOTE>ME: It's funny that science creates something as fact, when the pattern repeats itself enough times indefinately, in a large number. Yet some who become involved in science don't accept prophetic dreams as being prophetic-when in fact the experience repeats itself to a large number of people so often, and on a wide scale worldwide.

YOU: I find it a little bit funny that you denounce science as unable to answer questions regarding a lot of these extraordinary claims, but when you find something that might support your ideas, then you try to use science to back up your claims.

ME: No it is you who denounce that science is able to answer these questions. This is where we have locked horns together!Right here!

Me: Of course I have science backing up my ideas, because you keep asking me to prove it by science though we keep telling you we can't go that path, but you insist. So I proved it to you.

>>It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. <<No you have been eating my cake. So get off it!
 
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Science does accept that coincidences occur. People pick winning lottery ticket numbers, for example. Some people have vivid dreams that later seem to bear some resemblance to something that was actually happening.

What has not been shown is that, in this case, the coincidences are anything more than that.

Let's be honest here. How many times have we ALL had vivid dreams, dreams after which we awoke and were uncertain as to whether the dream had really happened, and discovered, often to our relief, that the dream did NOT really happen, and that nothing bearing any resemblance to it did? Frequently, I would say.
 
not all dreamers have uncertain memories of them. i regularly remember my dreams in detail. just last night i dreamt the wife and i were at a prince concert (neither of us are fans). i even remember that he absurdly returned to a second stage after a break at the back of the outdoor auditorium in a harrier jump jet. yeah silly stuff. but i remember it clearly.

now of course this dream was not precognitive. but that doesn't mean that none of them are.

the dream at the start of this thread isn't merely resembling what occured later. it happened precisely. your efforts to downplay it as coincidence doesn't wash with what actually occured. i'd say that the chances of winning a lottery and being struck by lightning are far more likely than that dream.

i don't use the term "precognitive" lightly. of all the synchronicities and patterns i see nearly daily, it is the ONLY dream where i can say with certainty that it happened.

ALL of my other dreams that seem to relate to future events are nifty but definitely not noteworthy. That's why i havn't wasted your time with them.
 
^ I understand. I said that we've all had dreams that are so vivid that we're uncertain, upon waking, as to whether they were real; I didn't say that you're uncertain about having had them.

The likelihood of having a vivid dream, at some points in your life, that has some connection with an event that occurs while sleeping, is fairly high, given the number of possible connections, the number of dreams you have, the number of events that occur, etc.

Just my own opinion, and no reason we can't just have different opinions on the subject. :)
 
^supercool :)

perhaps .... probably we're both right...... somehow.... ;):p
 
Precognitive and prophetic dreams, that have meaning and associated to upcoming occurances in real life which some like to call coincidences-but are related to sinchronicity-occur only to people who are in connection to their emotive/sensory world, who are somewhat introverts, and are more connected to their inner world. Anyone else, especially extroverts, do not know what we are talking about, because they don't experience these, hence they try to work it out from their heads. It is not a head/thinking process that will do it for you, that is why you don't get it-but it is experienced!
 
^ I am tempted to make several jokes about what possible "head processes" you could be referring to, but as this is a family-friendly forum I shall refrain.

Yes, the last part was sarcasm.
 
karruters said:
the majority of scientists are idiots.

my life is one big deja vu moment. it's scary.

not quite really, but i dream up my reality quite frequently.
Click to expand...

The majority of scientists are idiots? What do you base that on?

You dream up your reality in what way? Could you be more specific?
 
LivingInTheMoment said:
QUOTE>ME: It's funny that science creates something as fact, when the pattern repeats itself enough times indefinately, in a large number. Yet some who become involved in science don't accept prophetic dreams as being prophetic-when in fact the experience repeats itself to a large number of people so often, and on a wide scale worldwide.
Click to expand...

It is because "prophetic" dreams don't happen in large numbers. It is not like people wake up and write down future events that are going to happen, like 9/11 with any specifity. These dreams are nothing more than coincidences combined with a very diffferent memory mechanism that is utilized in dreams. It is bound to happen, some people just choose to believe in very bad explanations for why it happens.

LivingInTheMoment said:
ME: No it is you who denounce that science is able to answer these questions. This is where we have locked horns together!Right here!
Click to expand...

Science can explain these things pretty well.

LivingInTheMoment said:
Me: Of course I have science backing up my ideas, because you keep asking me to prove it by science though we keep telling you we can't go that path, but you insist. So I proved it to you.
Click to expand...

You haven't proved anything. There were no experiments, no proof from that guy you posted from. Not only that, his theories were left in the dust a while ago. If you really want to provide scientific proof, you should at least come up with well supported theories that are accepted by a good portion of the scientific community.
 
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Impacto Profundo said:
not all dreamers have uncertain memories of them. i regularly remember my dreams in detail. just last night i dreamt the wife and i were at a prince concert (neither of us are fans). i even remember that he absurdly returned to a second stage after a break at the back of the outdoor auditorium in a harrier jump jet. yeah silly stuff. but i remember it clearly.

now of course this dream was not precognitive. but that doesn't mean that none of them are.

the dream at the start of this thread isn't merely resembling what occured later. it happened precisely. your efforts to downplay it as coincidence doesn't wash with what actually occured. i'd say that the chances of winning a lottery and being struck by lightning are far more likely than that dream.

i don't use the term "precognitive" lightly. of all the synchronicities and patterns i see nearly daily, it is the ONLY dream where i can say with certainty that it happened.

ALL of my other dreams that seem to relate to future events are nifty but definitely not noteworthy. That's why i havn't wasted your time with them.
Click to expand...


It would be extremely weird if some people didn't dream about stuff that happened later. That doesen't mean people actually have an ability, it means that probability would predict this sort of thing. The real question is, what is the mechanism behind this? How could this possibly be happening? No one has a clue, while the opposing side can provide a very good mechanism as to why it is not happening.
 
Enlitx said:
It would be extremely weird if some people didn't dream about stuff that happened later. That doesen't mean people actually have an ability, it means that probability would predict this sort of thing. The real question is, what is the mechanism behind this? How could this possibly be happening? No one has a clue, while the opposing side can provide a very good mechanism as to why it is not happening.
Click to expand...


Which mechanism proves this doesn't happen? Probability? I don't agree that the detail and timing of the one dream in question is possible through sheer chance.

Please correct your quotes in the previous post. I didn't post those things.
 
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