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Prophetic/Precognitive Dreams

^indeed you do not :)

qwe said:
i don't think the shoes thing was really more than a coincidence. and this quote, it's just LOOKING for a coincidence. a friend gave birth when you bought some shoes. uhhh alright :p

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all this synchronicity stuff, i know it happens, but we are underestimating the brain's ability to find/interpret patterns. we are pattern-machines! it's not that far out guys. it's actually natural, especially for us bluelighters who have tripped our share of trips, to patternize reality and find connections
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the birth thing was a tongue in cheek remark. of course that is coincidence. they two events had nothing to do with one another.

but the detail in my dream is bullshit (for clarity i mean "stunningly clear"). coincidence just does not cut it.

I see pattern and synchronicities all the time. I admit to having overactive automatic pattern recognition, so i know what a deluded sync/connection looks like. This dream is definitely not one of them. I wouldn't have made the thread had i had any reason to doubt it. I was conscious of the details PRIOR to seeing the auction. I pondered them on the way to work. With certainty i can say that i did not make up or imagine their:
1-existence;
2-colour; or
3-size
after i saw the auction. These details were all clearly present before i logged on.

i appreciate your skepticism, qwe. I would see things the same way as you from your POV. Of all the synchronicity i see, this dream shook me hard that day.

Lysis said:
I'm curious if anyone has had a dream that followed through positively? I know my story is kinda a downer, and I've read some stories here where people have had dreams they don't understand, but has anyone had a dream where they understood the meaning or where it seems to actually be prophetic?
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read the first post in this thread
 
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retitled thread based on the superior titled thread
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=435529

the term "prophetic" is a badly chosen word for its implications. the day i made this thread i was shaken quite severely and couldn't think of a better term.

mods, do you want to merge the two threads?
 
Preminition is a word which fits best in the awareness of what is coming up into conscious and synchronicity is part of quantam mechanics of what I may call external potentials, I see those coinsidences as one of the mysteries of life-call it beauty, when coincidence occurs at such close level that you pre-expirenced in a dream, is that not a grand experience?
Call it what you will it is all semantics! The experience is experience, inner and outer=synchronos=the awareness within and the experience external-at the same time!
 
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Sure, but then these are sneakers you've been after for a while; they have a limited set of colors and shapes. You'd been thinking about them intensely already. So to have a vivid dream about them isn't surprising, is it? W

We all also have very vivid dreams that don't match up to anything that happens that day. Those dreams we simply forget about. But the coincidences we remember.

It's also true that our memory often isn't as good as we'd like, especially when it comes to the content of dreams.
 
to repeat:
1-i didn't know those colours existed
2-they were small in my dream (which NEVER happens in my dreams about shoes. i also never get them in my dream either, but i did in that one)
3-i spent a long time recalling these details from the dream PRIOR to finding the shoes online. most of that morning.

there's really no need throwing further skepticism ignoring points i've already made. i can't prove this to you and personally don't care whether you believe me or not. I'm never going to meet most of you. i am just telling you the facts from that day. there was nothing vague about it.
 
The best source I have seen on the subject of precognitive dreams is called
"An Experiment with Time", published in the 1920s by a scientist (physicist, I think I remember).
It is an extremely scientific approach to the subject, and will probably convince a good number of scientist-sceptic types. You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Experiment_with_Time
(see also http://www.geocities.com/felixrayman/)

The jist of the idea is this (quoting from Wikipedia):

"Dunne's theory, elaborated from years of experiments into precognitive dreams and induced precognitive states, is that in reality all time is eternally present, that is, that past, present and future are all happening together in some way. Human consciousness, however, experiences this simultaneity in linear form. Dunne posits that in the dreaming state this way of interpreting time ceases to be as concrete as when we are awake. Thus we are capable of having what we call precognitive dreams as consciousness finds itself free to roam across past, present and future."
 
Impacto Profundo said:
to repeat:
1-i didn't know those colours existed
2-they were small in my dream (which NEVER happens in my dreams about shoes. i also never get them in my dream either, but i did in that one)
3-i spent a long time recalling these details from the dream PRIOR to finding the shoes online. most of that morning.

there's really no need throwing further skepticism ignoring points i've already made. i can't prove this to you and personally don't care whether you believe me or not. I'm never going to meet most of you. i am just telling you the facts from that day. there was nothing vague about it.
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It's not that I don't believe that you had a vivid dream about sneakers that you later purchased.

I'm disputing the explanation for that dream.

Which is more likely?

You had a dream about a pair of sneakers, which you coincidentally saw later that day and purchased, OR your brain somehow saw into the future, communicated this to you via a dream, and you then actually saw the same sneakers later in the day?

A coincidence just seems more likely, doesn't it?
 
impacto i do agree with your points but the argument sometimes isnt worth the effort pending on the wall your standing in front of.
 
MynameisnotDeja said:
This attitude is just something I will never understand, but to each their own. Life is beautiful and amazing and should be appreciated for what it is: magical! :)
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it is indeed very magical. but that magic can be explained by science and probability :)
 
MynameisnotDeja said:
You just don't get it. I've explained it a thousand times. These dreams that I have are not normal dreams at all. They are visions. They are completely lucid and extremely real, unlike ALL my other dreams. So when I have these extremely lucid and real dreams that feel way different than normal dreams and then something from the dream happens, that is not just a coincidence. Not when it has happened many, many times. ANd what does making huge sums of money have to do with it? 1)Not everyone's purpose in life is to make money, I know I don't care about money at all and 2)Why would psychic gifts neccessarily show you how to make money? Don't you think they might be showing you something a little deeper than that?

There is no way for me to explain what these dreams are like to someone who hasn't experienced them. But trust me when I say they are not normal dreams. Not even close.
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oh, well if you label them visions instead of dreams, and you say they are more vivid than normal (ive had plenty of dreams that feel even more vivid than real life, and feel like absolutely peak amazing experiences, the peaks of my life.... so what), okay i guess if you relabel them and if they are more vivid that gives them more credence...

the more vivid a dream is, the more likely you are to find connections in real life to the dream, the more likely it is to be on your mind and you will notice the synchronous events

i'm not saying you're lying. and i have experienced these dreams. but the interpretation of them as supernatural, is a "natural" thing stemming from the way the human brain works. particularly in the very front of our brain...
 
Impacto Profundo said:
to repeat:
1-i didn't know those colours existed
2-they were small in my dream (which NEVER happens in my dreams about shoes. i also never get them in my dream either, but i did in that one)
3-i spent a long time recalling these details from the dream PRIOR to finding the shoes online. most of that morning.

there's really no need throwing further skepticism ignoring points i've already made. i can't prove this to you and personally don't care whether you believe me or not. I'm never going to meet most of you. i am just telling you the facts from that day. there was nothing vague about it.
Click to expand...
that settles it

--- --- ---

god is a woman. and she's really into shoes!
 
^oh noes! there goes the neighbourhood! :D


Heuristic said:
It's not that I don't believe that you had a vivid dream about sneakers that you later purchased.

I'm disputing the explanation for that dream.

Which is more likely?

You had a dream about a pair of sneakers, which you coincidentally saw later that day and purchased, OR your brain somehow saw into the future, communicated this to you via a dream, and you then actually saw the same sneakers later in the day?

A coincidence just seems more likely, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

3rd possibility: something in the present let me know they became available again.

The likelyhood of these three options are impossible to compare since we have no idea how to quantify or measure precognition or any sort of "magical" informational exchange. But the chances of the details being all correct, to me, seems unbelievably unlikely to be merely coincidence especially considering the timing, therefore it must be something else.

i don't know what.

FrostyMcFailure said:
impacto i do agree with your points but the argument sometimes isnt worth the effort pending on the wall your standing in front of.
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thanks frosty, but i'm not here to argue. :)
 
qwe said:
(Life) is indeed very magical. but that magic can be explained by science and probability :)
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I think that this discussion is fascinating.
It made me think that there are several distinct views with respect to supernatural events. There are three basic points of view, speaking roughly of course, when it comes to such situations. One is purely scientific, and the limits of science are accepted to be the limits of the actual world. Another, the second view, is completely open, and there are no limits necessary, and science is irrelevant. The third is science-based, but allows that science is simply a theory, though a good one in that it is often explanatory. Therefore, science is used as a guide, but subscribers to the third view don't believe unquestioningly that those phenomena that science can't explain must not exist.

Some people (not necessarily you, qwe) get very upset at the idea that phenomena for which science has no explanation may exist. They call others insulting names, refusing to examine the possibilities critically. This is the worst kind of error for a true scientist. Such bias will not lead to understanding anything new, but simply support one's current worldview - which, it appears, these people are trying to do at all costs. They appear to be deeply scared of any challenge to what they already accept as truth.

A real scientist, however, welcomes challenges, and is open to seeing how his/her theory works to explain new data, as compared with competing theories – or as-of-yet unborn theories.

A good scientist does not approach the study of new data with fervent hopes that his/her theory will explain it best, or anger at other possible attempts to explain it. That's the approach of someone who feels threatened.

Good scientists are always willing to revise their theories based on new data. And there is always new data coming in. Did anyone think that Newton's laws would ever have to be revised? They explained the visible world nearly perfectly (or, arguably, perfectly, given the existence of complete vacuums such as space, and otherwise taking into account friction, etc.). But the discovery of quantum physics was essentially a realization that such laws did nothing to explain the rules of the physical world once you study it on a smaller scale. Studying particles of light, for example, Newton's laws don't explain how they move or how they work at all. They are both particles and waves at the same time - some physicists call them 'wavicles'. Would Newton have frantically argued with quantum physicists, calling them names because they tried to compete with his views? I certainly hope not. Even if he had, he would have lost. The search for truth must go on.

Science is a wonderful tool for explaining nature. It is extremely powerful. But it cannot, by definition, explain the super-natural. It is not meant to do so.

There are things that happen that science cannot explain. Any good scientist admits this. Those who get angry and fight are not scientists, but merely converts to the religion of science. There is a vast difference. (Again, not necessarily referring to you, qwe)

A scientist thinks and challenges the current theory. The current theory must always be challenged, or else it has become dogma. The current theory is always changing over time. In a hundred years, some of what we consider common-sense scientific knowledge today will have been proven incorrect. Good scientists accept this. Converts to the religion of science merely want someone else to give them an explanation so they can get back to the rest of their lives without contemplating anything deeper than getting drunk next weekend or who they'd like to have sex with. They are scared of life, scared of death, and the religion of science is a crutch on which to stand. They are indistinguishable in quality from other blind religious devotees, who don't question the official dogma of their religion.

Let's keep our minds open, especially for data that aren't easily explained by our theories. For a good scientist, this is often the most interesting kind of data.

Science cannot explain God, or whether or not he/she/it exists. It was not made for this task. It can answer questions such as 'how' and 'what' and 'when', but it cannot answer the ultimate 'why'. Converts to the religion of science often forget this. Let's not lose our humility, but remember that we are but tiny beings in the midst of the grand and intricate beauty that is our universe.
 
LivingInTheMoment said:
Preminition is a word which fits best in the awareness of what is coming up into conscious and synchronicity is part of quantam mechanics of what I may call external potentials, I see those coinsidences as one of the mysteries of life-call it beauty, when coincidence occurs at such close level that you pre-expirenced in a dream, is that not a grand experience?
Click to expand...

How exactly is synchronicity part of quantam mechanics? I have yet to see an explanation involving quantam mechanics. If there truly were one, that would be an interesting discussion.
 
that was a good post, slimvictor

basically, i believe that there is NOTHING that science will not eventually be able to explain (given enough time and enough open mindedness). anything that seems "supernatural" is actually natural, because everything is a part of this universe, everything is one, everything is natural. some things, like consciousness itself/qualia, seems so out there, but i believe someday some light will be shed on its workings
 
Regarding the evaluation of the probabilities of each explanation for prophetic dreams... I disagree that we are unable to assess this, though certainly assigning a quantitative value would be difficult and probably arbitrary. What we can do is assess the RELATIVE probability of each explanation.

An explanation that requires us to postulate the existence of entirely new entities and forms of substance will be LESS likely to be true than an explanation which relies on the existence of entities and forms of substance which have been observed and confirmed, all else being equal.

This is because while we KNOW that the confirmed entities and substances exist, we do NOT know whether the postulated new entities and so forth exist; their postulation is more speculative, and so, at this point, less likely to be true.

In this case, we have a reasonably simple explanation for prophetic dreams that do not require us to postulate new entities or forms of substance. And that is: we all sometimes have vivid dreams, about various things. Sometimes, these vivid dreams connect with something that happens the next day. The coincidence may be remarkable. But given how many vivid dreams a population of people have, and given how many experiences a population of people has, it is EXPECTED that some vivid dreams would connect up with events that happen the next day.

Might the connection between so precise as to be highly unusual? Sure. But winning the lottery is also highly unusual. Nonetheless, we would expect SOMEONE to win the lottery within a fairly short period of time, despite enormous odds against any particular person winning. Hell, there's a case of one individual who won the lottery twice.
 
I have had many dreams that have come true-

The most important dream was.........
I was sitting at a table with my grandfather and it was very.....otherwordly.
Sitting there he made apologies to me-and I to him (there was history there)
He then told me I had to tell my mother she had to prepare the family.
I knew he was going to die in the dream- there wasn't a question really....
So - I wake up and tell my mother and she is asking me questions about the dream and the phone rings. Its my uncle telling my mother that her father is in the hospital and she needs to fly out there.
Later- she told me that he always said that she would have to be the one to hold the family together when he died- and that he would only call her to fly out when it was really his time.
My mom felt- him contacting me in the dream was his way of calling her out.....since when he was put in the hosiptal he was unable to speak.........

I have had MANY other prophetic dreams.
 
exactly ^ after a long time of experiencing things like that first hand you begin to take it as "a matter of fact" imo & then find out mostly everyone isn't quiet there. :d
 
It's funny that science creates something as fact, when the pattern repeats itself enough times indefinately, in a large number. Yet some who become involved in science don't accept prophetic dreams as being prophetic-when in fact the experience repeats itself to a large number of people so often, and on a wide scale worldwide.

Well Freud accepted this phenomenon, that many specific kind of people with telepathic qualities have prophetic dreams!
The young science students of today like to place it on the beauty of nature and simple coincidence unrelated to any preconscious awareness of this upcoming event!??????
 
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Quantum Theory & Synchronicity

The concept of Synchronicity began with the collaboration of the Nobel Prize physicist Wolfgang Pauli and analytical psychologist C.G. Jung. Both these men felt there was 'something else' at work in synchronistic events other than the classical understanding of cause and effect or chance. Uniting the approaches of analytical psychology and quantum physics, Jung and Pauli suggested the understanding of synchronicity necessitated the building a bridge with one foundation derived into the objectivity of hard science and the other into the subjectivity of personal values. (Peat, n.d.)

Synchronicity and quantum phenomena have common ground. There are also important differences. Nonlocality, like synchronicity, involves two quantum events where the observed properties of the quanta have an element of spontaneity in their manifestation, and the correlations between the two quanta are not due to efficient causation between them. (McFarlane, 2000) However, quantum nonlocality phenomena differ from synchronicity, because two quantum events can be both events in the outer physical world. Synchronicity is a connection between an inner psychic event and an outer event, bridging psyche and matter, and thus pointing to the unus mundus. This most important aspect of synchronicity relates to the inner psychological meaning and its connection to matter, or manifest reality. (McFarlane, 2000)

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...and a bit on the occult since I am here.

Freud proposed a possible physical basis for thought transmission (which presumably could be extended to telepathy as well) based on an analogy with the telephone. He postulated that the thoughts or other mental processes that are transmitted are transformed into physical processes such as waves or rays.(16) Once these waves or rays reach their target, they are transformed back into the original mental processes.(17) Additional evidence for Freud's belief in this physical basis for the occult can be found in a letter of his to Ferenczi, in which he describes his opinion of a soothsayer whom they had both visited. Freud thought that she had a "physiological gift" that allowed her access to the thoughts of others.
 
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