yeah thats one of the real problems, saying it is the fault of all white people is just as racist though. I personally had nothing to do with it and I dont agree with it either. But it happened, things have changed, and realistically they are never going to change back to how they were before.
Petrol Sniffing in Indigenous Communities
- Thread starter footscrazy
- Start date
Nozphexezora
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2012
- Messages
- 540
Freedom without knowledge of what your freedom is (or its subject) causes risk of influencing the freedom of others negatively. For example, if I don't know how to drive and I drive on public roads anyway, then I'm at risk of crashing into somebody and ruining their freedom or a lot of things. In this case, the freedom of doing a public interaction (i.e. drinking in pubs, driving, using machinery, etc.) is at a higher risk of ridding the liberty of others' freedoms if the person is inexperienced in the subject.
So my philosophy still goes in line with what you're saying. I think a legal drinking age is somewhat appropriate, but I think alcohol should be a bit less...available. Maybe licensing for recreational drugs would work, but I'm no politician and I'm too young to have much knowledge in this area.
what i meant with the legal age, is that in making alcohol illegal for young people, they have to justify why and educate people on the subject. If someone knows nothing about addictive drugs, they are more likely to end up with a problem given free access. Sure it might effect no one else, but you dont want people ending up with problem drug use. Eliminating problem drug use is what harm reduction is all about
I know this will sound cliche but no one cane help Aboriginals until they want to help themselves.
I have always given them the benefit of the doubt that they are the way they are because of the horrible shit that has happened to them in the past but at some point they need to realise that they have got to give back to society instead of taking all the time.
I know this post sounds shitty and that its not all Aboriginal people, but in my experience it is by far the majority that are fucking shit up.
Widely introduce opal fuel or ban unleaded, its not going to do anything until people take responsibility for there own choices.
I have always given them the benefit of the doubt that they are the way they are because of the horrible shit that has happened to them in the past but at some point they need to realise that they have got to give back to society instead of taking all the time.
I know this post sounds shitty and that its not all Aboriginal people, but in my experience it is by far the majority that are fucking shit up.
Widely introduce opal fuel or ban unleaded, its not going to do anything until people take responsibility for there own choices.
poledriver
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 11,543
This is a good read for anyone who might be interested -
http://www.vaccho.org.au/vcwp/wp-co...-inquiry-submission-Justice-reinvestment1.pdf
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2006
- Messages
- 7,538
I really wish I could find it right now and I will look more later for it, but I distinctly remember reading a document that said statistically aboriginals are locked up way more than white people and they are many many times more likely to be charged with completely trivial offences like swearing in public. According to this article, aboriginals in WA are locked up worse than black people were in apartheid South Africa, given this it seems completely arrogant, misguided and stupid to say they are "pretty much exempt from the law". It seems to me that pretty much the opposite is true in practise, whether or not your anecdote about one fucking tinny house happened or not is pretty much irrelevant in the scheme of things.
I agree it isn't fair to blame ALL of the aboriginal problems on white people entirely, however, I do think that people who go on spouting nonsense like aboriginals are exempt from the law are only making the problem worse. I find it kind of funny how people like standup are so defensive about being called racist, yet they automatically make racist assumptions like aboriginals get better treatment and then go on to claim it as a fact and try influence others without taking two fucking seconds to educate yourself on the hard facts about who gets locked up and who doesn't.
I agree it isn't fair to blame ALL of the aboriginal problems on white people entirely, however, I do think that people who go on spouting nonsense like aboriginals are exempt from the law are only making the problem worse. I find it kind of funny how people like standup are so defensive about being called racist, yet they automatically make racist assumptions like aboriginals get better treatment and then go on to claim it as a fact and try influence others without taking two fucking seconds to educate yourself on the hard facts about who gets locked up and who doesn't.
Have a listen to yourself mate you have the same superior attitude the early settlers had, white mans burden to tame the savages. You saying that its up to us white people to help is the same attitude the government had when they compulsory fostered out aboriginal kids.
You make it sound like you have personally mistreated Aboriginals, blaming all white people for the shit that happened in the past is the same as white people tarring all aboriginals with the same brush because they have been robbed or beaten other aboriginals.
Last edited:
bunnymunro
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2012
- Messages
- 480
their own choices would have been to have been left alone, like they had been for the previous 40 000 years. Whatever they did then, it seemed to work. Given life span wasn't as long as it is now, but I think their overall quality of life probably better than it is now? That is a very subjective comment, and depends on the parameters of quality of life I spose.
However, when whoever said that their communities were messy, what was the main source of litter, etc? I bet the majority, if not all, came from a processing plant of one sort or another.
Last edited:
im just putting the other side of things out there, because theres definately another side. Blaming the government for everything is stupid and blaming white men for everything is stupid. Its happened, and the general concencus is that people feel bad about the past, but thats life. Some sort of clash was inevitable when we colonised australia, and now coexistance is a reality. Statistics are one thing, but ive seen that many aboriginals get arrested for what basically comes down to disrespecting police officers or creating public disturbance. Might look like a minor reason as a statistic, but they sure as hell kick up a good fuss everytime ive seen it go down. Ive seen conflicts go on and on till the aboriginal has basically forced, after multiple warnings, their own arrest.
If anyone had a look at the link i posted, it talks about aboriginals in particular, as well as hormonal balance being a key feature in adaption of different races (artificial adaption of sorts) to life today (theoretically). Thats one possible solution thats pretty left field, and potentially a reality in the not to distant future. The reality is they have to integrate in our society now, and I think a big part of the problem is they actively fight it. All im saying. I dont think white people are still actively repressing aboriginals, so where lies the problem?
If anyone had a look at the link i posted, it talks about aboriginals in particular, as well as hormonal balance being a key feature in adaption of different races (artificial adaption of sorts) to life today (theoretically). Thats one possible solution thats pretty left field, and potentially a reality in the not to distant future. The reality is they have to integrate in our society now, and I think a big part of the problem is they actively fight it. All im saying. I dont think white people are still actively repressing aboriginals, so where lies the problem?
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2006
- Messages
- 7,538
^ I have seen plenty of drunk white people do the exact same thing, as well as people from other nationalities. Do you really think that Aboriginals do it literally a handful of times more than any other race? It doesn't seem realistic to me and I highly doubt it is true. The fact that the crux of your argument seems to be based on a few anecdotal experiences you have had really tells me all I need to know about your insight into the issue.
My MAIN issue with you was you said, and I quote, "aboriginals are still there openly selling weed. If they were organised enough to set up a massive drug ring theyd be laughing because they are pretty much exempt from the law." I am really curious how the fuck you justify that when I have presented you with facts that say they are amongst the most oppressed people by law enforcement in the world?
I also don't see how you would argue that white people aren't actively repressing them, even if you think Aboriginals are several times worse for antisocial behaviour than non aboriginals do you HONESTLY believe they are 13 or 14 times worse!? That seems a ridiculously racist notion to me.
How do you propose that they integrate themselves into society when they are discriminated against so badly and the majority of the population (like yourself) is too ignorant to see that even with the statistics put to them plain as day? You seem to put the onus fully on them but disregard all the negative shit that the powers that be (basically a bunch of old white folk) continue to do to the Aboriginal population to this day.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, what about how we ban alcohol and kava from being used in certain Aboriginal communities? That is unquestionably applying one law to us and another to them. There might be some argument that alcohol does harm in those communities but to me that is a total farce, alcohol does a great deal of damage all over this country. Even if you buy that alcohol should be restricted and I doubt many here would, I certainly can not see ANY possible justification for banning kava, I have never known it to be harmful or make people particularly prone to violent behaviour, I understood it to be a very benign drug as they go. Perhaps a great deal of the population believes in restricting drugs in one way or another and views this added restriction on specific Aboriginal communities as less fascist than I do, however surely on Bluelight where most don't advocate prohibition of many substances we can agree that these alcohol and kava restrictions are a disgusting form of discrimination against certain Aboriginal communities.
My MAIN issue with you was you said, and I quote, "aboriginals are still there openly selling weed. If they were organised enough to set up a massive drug ring theyd be laughing because they are pretty much exempt from the law." I am really curious how the fuck you justify that when I have presented you with facts that say they are amongst the most oppressed people by law enforcement in the world?
I also don't see how you would argue that white people aren't actively repressing them, even if you think Aboriginals are several times worse for antisocial behaviour than non aboriginals do you HONESTLY believe they are 13 or 14 times worse!? That seems a ridiculously racist notion to me.
How do you propose that they integrate themselves into society when they are discriminated against so badly and the majority of the population (like yourself) is too ignorant to see that even with the statistics put to them plain as day? You seem to put the onus fully on them but disregard all the negative shit that the powers that be (basically a bunch of old white folk) continue to do to the Aboriginal population to this day.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, what about how we ban alcohol and kava from being used in certain Aboriginal communities? That is unquestionably applying one law to us and another to them. There might be some argument that alcohol does harm in those communities but to me that is a total farce, alcohol does a great deal of damage all over this country. Even if you buy that alcohol should be restricted and I doubt many here would, I certainly can not see ANY possible justification for banning kava, I have never known it to be harmful or make people particularly prone to violent behaviour, I understood it to be a very benign drug as they go. Perhaps a great deal of the population believes in restricting drugs in one way or another and views this added restriction on specific Aboriginal communities as less fascist than I do, however surely on Bluelight where most don't advocate prohibition of many substances we can agree that these alcohol and kava restrictions are a disgusting form of discrimination against certain Aboriginal communities.
Last edited:
well they were there according to mate, hed been living here a month at the time and found them easy enough, then got done two streets away. Ill take that back, because Ive seen far more dodgy drug shit go down with white people. Including similar and far worse situations. But ive seen problematic, obvious public hard drug use go conveniently ignored with aboriginal people only. Only a handful of times ill admit
Outside of the clubbing scene, which I think is a pretty bad side of our society, most of the public intoxication that's noticible to me is aboriginal. I know im coming across as ignorant, and i am. Ive been to a handful of outback towns, ive been through some bad-idea-in-hindsight backalleys in the city. A lot of aboriginal people I see just dont fit into 'normal society' though. I think some of the reason they arent integrating better is their fault, in upbringing and cultural values. Parental problem drug use and grudges seem to be part of the problem, and thats on aboriginal peoples end to clean themselves up somewhat.
The general reputation of aboriginals is drunk, disorderly, dole bludgers. Thats politically incorrect and you only joke about it with mates maybe, but they live up to that reputation on a regular basis. For instance, catching the midland line train late at night is actually kind of scary sometimes. Suburbs surrounding me have had a tonne of break ins w/ reports of groups of aboriginals roaming around. Car park down at my local dog beach is notorious for car break ins, again lots of reports of sighted aboriginals.
I get abit nervous around aboriginal people, because past experience has shown that shit goes down easily. You might look at one too long, one might be super drunk and start yelling at you. It happens alot with annoying any drunk people, but ive seen it escalate more with aboriginal people.
Outside of the clubbing scene, which I think is a pretty bad side of our society, most of the public intoxication that's noticible to me is aboriginal. I know im coming across as ignorant, and i am. Ive been to a handful of outback towns, ive been through some bad-idea-in-hindsight backalleys in the city. A lot of aboriginal people I see just dont fit into 'normal society' though. I think some of the reason they arent integrating better is their fault, in upbringing and cultural values. Parental problem drug use and grudges seem to be part of the problem, and thats on aboriginal peoples end to clean themselves up somewhat.
The general reputation of aboriginals is drunk, disorderly, dole bludgers. Thats politically incorrect and you only joke about it with mates maybe, but they live up to that reputation on a regular basis. For instance, catching the midland line train late at night is actually kind of scary sometimes. Suburbs surrounding me have had a tonne of break ins w/ reports of groups of aboriginals roaming around. Car park down at my local dog beach is notorious for car break ins, again lots of reports of sighted aboriginals.
I get abit nervous around aboriginal people, because past experience has shown that shit goes down easily. You might look at one too long, one might be super drunk and start yelling at you. It happens alot with annoying any drunk people, but ive seen it escalate more with aboriginal people.
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2006
- Messages
- 7,538
You conveniently seem to be ducking several questions I directed at you in my last post as well as generally failing to address several points I brought up.
Again you are bringing up anecdotal stories, they really aren't relevant in the scheme of things compared to hard facts and the facts would say that much more attention is paid to Aboriginal crime, not the opposite.
Let me put it this way. Many people on Bluelight would agree that the drug laws serve a very negative function in that once you get caught up in the system your life gets harder, you might lose your freedom for months or years and will probably experience financial hardship from a period locked up, a substantial fine, legal fees, loss of employment or a combination of them. It becomes harder to get a job and your dreams of travelling certain places are ruined, many people who find out about your legal troubles will treatyou negatively. All these things ultimately make it harder for a drug user or addict to break their cycle of use and in many cases will make it worse. It limits oppurtunities for positive influence in their life to aid them in quitting drugs. When you take away everything else then sometimes all a person is left with is misery and drugs.
Now think about this and apply it to the obvious oppression of Aboriginal people by the Criminal Justice system in this country, does it not seem logical to you that when we arrest them in unprecedented numbers and treat them like shit then it might be harder for them to then get a job and therefore off the dole? Don't you think locking up breadwinners in impoverished communities does a lot to damage both the morale of those being locked up but also those left behind to struggle? You ever think perhaps that this kind of shit is a big factor in why so many of them have problems with drugs and alcohol. You ever think that such unfair treatment by the police in general *might* just make a population feel distrustful and even hateful towards the system?
It is easy to say "oh well I see a bunch of them behaving this way in the street", but did you ever stop to think what they went through to lead them there or why they might act that way? The negative lifestyle you are stereotyping many Aboriginals to lead is hardly glamorous and I am sure they would change it if they didn't genuinely feel hopeless in their situation.
After you consider all that, you can go even further and consider that we are actually imposing a value system on them that is not their own. Maybe you might not deal so well if another Country came over here, killed Australians en masse, raped our women and stole our land? Maybe you might reject your oppressors idea of how you should be behaving.
I think the real problem here is that nobody ever addresses these issues, because it is too convenient for apathetic white Australians to see one or two drunk and disorderly Aboriginals in the street and say look at them, they don' want our help. It is a shame that so few of you think about it beyond that surface level and wonder why a significant portion of them behave this way. It seems to me they were functioning fine before we came over and shit all over them, something about that tells me that some of their current predicament falls squarely on the shoulders of the white man.
Again you are bringing up anecdotal stories, they really aren't relevant in the scheme of things compared to hard facts and the facts would say that much more attention is paid to Aboriginal crime, not the opposite.
Let me put it this way. Many people on Bluelight would agree that the drug laws serve a very negative function in that once you get caught up in the system your life gets harder, you might lose your freedom for months or years and will probably experience financial hardship from a period locked up, a substantial fine, legal fees, loss of employment or a combination of them. It becomes harder to get a job and your dreams of travelling certain places are ruined, many people who find out about your legal troubles will treatyou negatively. All these things ultimately make it harder for a drug user or addict to break their cycle of use and in many cases will make it worse. It limits oppurtunities for positive influence in their life to aid them in quitting drugs. When you take away everything else then sometimes all a person is left with is misery and drugs.
Now think about this and apply it to the obvious oppression of Aboriginal people by the Criminal Justice system in this country, does it not seem logical to you that when we arrest them in unprecedented numbers and treat them like shit then it might be harder for them to then get a job and therefore off the dole? Don't you think locking up breadwinners in impoverished communities does a lot to damage both the morale of those being locked up but also those left behind to struggle? You ever think perhaps that this kind of shit is a big factor in why so many of them have problems with drugs and alcohol. You ever think that such unfair treatment by the police in general *might* just make a population feel distrustful and even hateful towards the system?
It is easy to say "oh well I see a bunch of them behaving this way in the street", but did you ever stop to think what they went through to lead them there or why they might act that way? The negative lifestyle you are stereotyping many Aboriginals to lead is hardly glamorous and I am sure they would change it if they didn't genuinely feel hopeless in their situation.
After you consider all that, you can go even further and consider that we are actually imposing a value system on them that is not their own. Maybe you might not deal so well if another Country came over here, killed Australians en masse, raped our women and stole our land? Maybe you might reject your oppressors idea of how you should be behaving.
I think the real problem here is that nobody ever addresses these issues, because it is too convenient for apathetic white Australians to see one or two drunk and disorderly Aboriginals in the street and say look at them, they don' want our help. It is a shame that so few of you think about it beyond that surface level and wonder why a significant portion of them behave this way. It seems to me they were functioning fine before we came over and shit all over them, something about that tells me that some of their current predicament falls squarely on the shoulders of the white man.
footscrazy
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,476
Really well put d_m...
its because all my stories are anecdotal. I feel like the facts are missing some of the reality of the situation. Seeing that aboriginals are incarcerated at 10x the rate and what not does not say they are unfairly targetted what so ever. Thats an assumption from the data. The only true bit of information you can gather is that they are a problem in the legal system. Im saying IN MY EXP, im not surprised why those numbers are the way they are. While my stories are anecdotal, Im sure most people with a similar upbringing to me have similar anecdotal stories. And yes, from my experience, outside of northbridge, by far and away the most public fuss ive seen kicked up has been from aboriginals. 10x over at least. Not to mention the kids i see are generally major deros.
What im getting at is I dont think you can treat aboriginal people like normal australians in helping them to fit in. ie they need special consideration. The extent to which petrol sniffing and alcoholism is a problem is some aboriginal communities is horrendous. Their kids? Thats where I think a large part of the problem lies. Both my parents have been invovled in working with aboriginals, and have lived in indigenous communities. I might not have experience with that side of things, but they do, and my dads seen plenty of bad shit with parenting. I do think they need somewhat separate treatment. Theres no doubt locking up so many aboriginals is helping perpetuate hate for authority, but many aboriginals ive seen have been loud, rude, aggressive and instigate events.
About the petrol sniffing? Its a hard one. I dont believe in criminalisation from personal drug use, but I do believe in minimising problematic drug use. Squandering money and wasting time on drugs is a problem, especially where young kids are inadvertently involved. Would food stamps and what not be a better way to handle centrelink? I dont know. I think the solution will come from education, and I think education would be best from their own people (ie elders and role models). If we could provide a way for their own communities to link together better I think that would be good.
What im getting at is I dont think you can treat aboriginal people like normal australians in helping them to fit in. ie they need special consideration. The extent to which petrol sniffing and alcoholism is a problem is some aboriginal communities is horrendous. Their kids? Thats where I think a large part of the problem lies. Both my parents have been invovled in working with aboriginals, and have lived in indigenous communities. I might not have experience with that side of things, but they do, and my dads seen plenty of bad shit with parenting. I do think they need somewhat separate treatment. Theres no doubt locking up so many aboriginals is helping perpetuate hate for authority, but many aboriginals ive seen have been loud, rude, aggressive and instigate events.
About the petrol sniffing? Its a hard one. I dont believe in criminalisation from personal drug use, but I do believe in minimising problematic drug use. Squandering money and wasting time on drugs is a problem, especially where young kids are inadvertently involved. Would food stamps and what not be a better way to handle centrelink? I dont know. I think the solution will come from education, and I think education would be best from their own people (ie elders and role models). If we could provide a way for their own communities to link together better I think that would be good.
Fuck, racism is well and truly ingrained in some people, it blinds them to the real issues at hand which drug_mentor has eloquently laid out, in plain english, better than I could do.
Standup, you're missing a vital part of the equation - even though it's been told to you numerous times, in different ways.
Standup, you're missing a vital part of the equation - even though it's been told to you numerous times, in different ways.
Yeah while its fucked up that the cycle of poverty and abuse was caused by people who were the same race as me, it certainly shoulnt excuse the behaviour some modern Aboriginals.
Yeah anecdotal experiences arent the best way to get youre point across, but it is legit and you'd have to be fucked in the head not to learn from youre experiences and unfortunately for alot of people their experience with Aboriginals is overwelmingly negative.
Does anyone here think things can change without Indigenous Australians leading the way?
And opi8 please dont do the calling people racist thing, from what ive read on this thread theres plenty going the other ways as well.
I once lent an aboriginal kid my surfboard down at my local beach so he could try catch a few waves. I dont even let my mates use my surfboards, but I felt bad because I racistly assumed he was poor and might not get a chance otherwise. Surfing is a beautiful thing. Since then Ive been called a white cunt that many times by aboriginals. I get sad, mek me cry ='(I feel like im the real victim of racism here
thestudent14
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2010
- Messages
- 1,619
Theres no doubt that in the case you're a victim of racism standup. I think there is some valid points to your argument. The evidence of such a greater perecentage of aboriginals to other Australians doesn't take into account the very real aspect of the way they talk to people of authority and ultimately receive harsher penalty's, sometimes rightly so but I'm sure racism comes into it in some cases too. It's a very touchy issue racism, an Example is I have an Aboriginal friend and whenever an Aboriginal footy player gets the ball we joke and say he has the ball (He did this first which to me implies it's okay as he finds it humorous), having said that if I said it to someone I wasn't friends with it would be construed as Racist. But it gets more complex when someone leglitimately does look like someone not just because of their race, people still view the statement as racist.
We're meant to live in a country of innocent until proven guilty, but often people are offended by non-offensive statements. To be politically correct now implies that anything that can be construed as racist is racist if someone is offended. Which to me is ludacris, there not a racist bone in my body and yet if I say certain things it can be viewed as "racist" when really people often make friends by being playful with each other which often involves using funny insults, I do this when I'm trying to befriend a white person so why can't I with someone from different decent? Morgan Freeman when asked how to stop racism replied "Stop talking about it" this reminds me of the episode of South Park inwhich the kids don't see the South Park flag as 4 white people hanging a black person, just as 4 people hanging a different person. Stephen Fry also famously said "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”. I'm not saying that we should just accept racism as something that is said. But our lines of what is and isn't racist shouldn't be so black and white (Pun intended) as it most certainly has levels of grey.
Standup here is voicing his opinion and from what I've read he has far more experience in indigenous communities then most of us, this doesn't mean that he is right in everything he says but he most certainly shouldn't be getting vilified when some of it has some merit. But D_m has made some great points
It's fucked basically.
We're meant to live in a country of innocent until proven guilty, but often people are offended by non-offensive statements. To be politically correct now implies that anything that can be construed as racist is racist if someone is offended. Which to me is ludacris, there not a racist bone in my body and yet if I say certain things it can be viewed as "racist" when really people often make friends by being playful with each other which often involves using funny insults, I do this when I'm trying to befriend a white person so why can't I with someone from different decent? Morgan Freeman when asked how to stop racism replied "Stop talking about it" this reminds me of the episode of South Park inwhich the kids don't see the South Park flag as 4 white people hanging a black person, just as 4 people hanging a different person. Stephen Fry also famously said "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.”. I'm not saying that we should just accept racism as something that is said. But our lines of what is and isn't racist shouldn't be so black and white (Pun intended) as it most certainly has levels of grey.
Standup here is voicing his opinion and from what I've read he has far more experience in indigenous communities then most of us, this doesn't mean that he is right in everything he says but he most certainly shouldn't be getting vilified when some of it has some merit. But D_m has made some great points
. It seems ridiculous to me too, and if it were the case then criminalizing more of them isn't gonna solve shit and just exacerbate the situation, sounds awfully familiar to me of how poorly area's of America have been handled that have a crack situation. At least petrol can't be sold like crack or else it may get completely out of hand and only result in more Aboriginals being criminalized and not getting to the root of the problem. The thing that got me most is this though
, this undoubtedly is one of the most insulting a ridiculous things that we as a country have some how allowed to happen. That's the kind of thing that makes me ashame of out country. How the FUCK did that happen? All this does is drive racism through the system and show a lack of understanding and empathy towards fellow Australians and treats them with a massive lack of respect. We should never have different laws for different people, we all abide by the same set of rules. I remember a couple of years ago there was a Muslim Group saying that it was racist of Australians to trial them under our laws as they have their own set of laws to which we should abide by for them. I remember thinking "They think it's racist to be trialed under our laws? I can't think of anything more racist then going into another country and demanding to be trialed under the laws of their old country" Can you Imagine if I went to any middle eastern country and demanded they change their laws to suit tourists/citizens who have come from Australia. But some how we have done this with some Aboriginal communities, Alcohol is the biggest cause of car crashes/violence let alone all the health risks associated with it across our whole country and yet somehow some politicians decided it was unacceptable for Aboriginals to make the same mistakes the rest of us do... this notion makes me sick. The answer would've been to invest more money in the areas infrastructure and helping them to develop, instead we change laws and treat them differently which only backs up racism, we must all abide by the same rules and when things like this happen we do not make progress all it is doing is regressing and reminding the people who live there of times of oppression.
It's fucked basically.
Last edited:
Has anyone been to Alice Springs? I remember someone saying man introducing alcohol to aboriginals was the most detrimental thing weve done. It goes both ways, you cant say weve fucked up their way of life by imposing ours, then argue that taking back certain aspects of our way of living is the most wrong thing ever, when its in the interest of getting them to be more self supportive. I dont agree with it, but I dont think its the worst thing ever
"According to a statement by Health Minister Tony Abbott and Customs Minister David Johnston announcing the ban, “kava abuse has become an increasingly serious problem in indigenous communities over recent years with the health effects becoming more severe in communities where kava use is not traditional and where excessive consumption occurs.”
Kava was originally introduced to the NT back in the 1980s in an effort to limit alcohol abuse – a kind of methadone for alcoholics – but became used as supplement rather than a substitute, so wanting to ban it in the Territory is understandable. What is not certain is whether Abbott and Johnston have considered the consequences of their actions in other parts of Australia where the use of kava instead of alcohol is prevalent among islander communities."
I dont know how true that is as an overview of the situation, but I think extra drug regulations are necessary in certain remote areas. Obviously I dont think the government is capable of introducing sensible drug regulations. I do agree with harsher drug regulations for aboriginals in various incidences (in these communities), because aboriginals make up a larger relative percentage of problem users. It may not even come down to problem drug use, but problem behaviour in general. Either way
"According to a statement by Health Minister Tony Abbott and Customs Minister David Johnston announcing the ban, “kava abuse has become an increasingly serious problem in indigenous communities over recent years with the health effects becoming more severe in communities where kava use is not traditional and where excessive consumption occurs.”
Kava was originally introduced to the NT back in the 1980s in an effort to limit alcohol abuse – a kind of methadone for alcoholics – but became used as supplement rather than a substitute, so wanting to ban it in the Territory is understandable. What is not certain is whether Abbott and Johnston have considered the consequences of their actions in other parts of Australia where the use of kava instead of alcohol is prevalent among islander communities."
I dont know how true that is as an overview of the situation, but I think extra drug regulations are necessary in certain remote areas. Obviously I dont think the government is capable of introducing sensible drug regulations. I do agree with harsher drug regulations for aboriginals in various incidences (in these communities), because aboriginals make up a larger relative percentage of problem users. It may not even come down to problem drug use, but problem behaviour in general. Either way
Last edited: