Petrol Sniffing in Indigenous Communities

[opi8]

I don't think that your answer is incorrect but it cannot be correct. Therefore, I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[bunnymunro]

I believe all people are, to a degree, racist.

1.
a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others

I think its a natural part of our makeup, thats why people of a race tend to live together in communities of the same race.

However, that does not excuse prejudice.

Noun
Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience

So for example, the whiteys learned that the maori were warrior like people. Thats racist.
But for the whiteys to say they are lazy good for nothings is prejudice.

 

[opi8]

I'll try and be serious for a second, I remember a South Park episode where the kids had a flag that wasn't racist to them. But because it depicted a black man in a worse position than the white people who were around the black man, it was assumed that racism was the cause. In fact, these kids were so un-racist, that they didn't see the racism in the flag but everybody else did.

Morgan Freeman also said when asked how to curb racism: "Stop talking about it".

The point I'm trying to make is that kids aren't born racist. The more race discussion happens, the worse it is.

 

[gimpan]

Wow. Jesus Christ. I cannot believe how condescending and patronising some of the posts regarding my opinions were!

Im sick of being called racist, people have repeatedly stated that my posts were racist and threatened to ban me, I have allready said it but will say it again: being called racist offends me

So fuck I will make it really fucking easy to understand what my opinion is.

I believe there is a number of options this country has,

1) Have one rule and law for all, where everyone is equal regardless of race.

2) We as Australians acknowledge that Aboriginals are at an unfair disadvantage today because of the shitty polices and general mistreatment of previous generations and accept that Aboriginals should be favored by the government and society, with the aim of one day "closing the gap".

3) Accept that only Aboriginals have right to this continent and everyone else must leave.

I believe that the second option is the best way for ALL AUSTRALIANS to move forward.

 

[drug_mentor]

Dude, you basically called someone retarded for stating that the genocide against Aboriginees was a genocide, that is pretty fucking ignorant and honestly if you were so misinformed on the topic then why are you calling other people retarded for calling it like it is? Not everybody can be informed on every issue but if you are not informed then maybe you should keep your trap shut before you spout off insults and other ignorant comments.

You might not be racist but I don't think you can really blame anyone for wondering if you are after some of the things you have said. I don't neccesarily believe that you are a racist but I do think you are part of the overall problem, so many white Australians seem to assume they know everything about this issue despite the fact they have spent zero time educating themselves on it, and the assumptions they make and opinions that they form tend to be negative bullshit like we do too much to help them, or they don't do enough to help themselves or really dumb shit like we never even committed genocide against them or they are exempt from the law which aren't really an opinion, more like disputing facts. I believe it is this pervasive attitude that keeps the status quo from changing and it would be refreshing to see more people educating themselves before they chime in with their 2 cents.

 

[spacejunk]

I believe all people are, to a degree, racist.

1.
a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others

I think its a natural part of our makeup, thats why people of a race tend to live together in communities of the same race.

However, that does not excuse prejudice.

Noun
Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience

So for example, the whiteys learned that the maori were warrior like people. Thats racist.
But for the whiteys to say they are lazy good for nothings is prejudice.

See, that's a dictionary term for "racism", but it is based on a holy antiquated way of understanding humanity.
Sorry to be a semantics pedant again, but there are no differing "races" amongst mankind.
We are all one, can all make babies with each other and all have practically identical DNA.
Sure, different people that evolved in differing climates developed physical characteristics and cultures based up where they resided, but archeology and genes have shown us that people the world over came from one "race" of living things.
I can talk about the physical traits of a given ethnicity (for example my skin which strongly betrays my ancestry, but it's not racist; just as pointing out the physical differences in males and females can easily be done in a non-sexist way).

Gimpan, I didn't threaten to ban you, I suggested you look at the BLUA. Calm the fuck down.

 

[Nozphexezora]

I don't think that your answer is incorrect but it cannot be correct. Therefore, I don't know what I'm talking about.

If you don't know what you're talking about then how is it that your opinion as to whether my answer is correct is correct initself?

Bunny, I think people make racist remarks, but I don't think we all constitute as racist. To be racist our racism has to be consistent with our beliefs.

Sorry to be a semantics pedant again, but there are no differing "races" among mankind.
We are all one, can all make babies with each other and all have practically identical DNA.
Sure, different people that evolved in differing climates developed physical characteristics and cultures based up where they resided, but archeology and genes have shown us that people the world over came from one "race" of living things.

Regardless of whether or not we came from once race, we can still distinguish people's ethnicity through colour of their skin, origin, family history and culture. Even if we do assume that a black man, for example, is from a long descendant of the same people, we can still identify him as a certain descent unique from ours (i.e. Africa, Indigenous Australia, Arabia, etc.) and the fact that their skin pigment varies is validation of this. We're still able to make distinctions between races.

I still understand your point, but you're wrong in saying that different race doesn't exist - considering we can easily identify people from different backgrounds.

 

[spacejunk]

Thanks for taking in my point, but "race" does not exist.
Ethnicity? Sure.
Race? Not in people. It's an archaic word based upon an old understanding of human biology.

Splitting hairs, maybe - but I was really engaging with bunny munroe's post more than anything else.

 

[gimpan]

Ok, I absolutely agree that the worst of crimes have been committed against the Aboriginal people and for many its obviously a emotional issue.

But how about instead of talking down and bullying people lets agree that our goal is the same, that one day Aboriginals living as long, being employed as often, being as free from disease, be equal in the justice system, etc as the average Australian citisen.

I understand my last post is hard to understand, but of those 3 options ( or if you have other ideas) would do you think would be the best to close the gap.

 

[spacejunk]

It's a complex problem. It inspires guilt, hopelessness, sadness, grief, a great deal of soul-searching (a concept that is dramatically different from culture to culture [amongst indigenous groups as well as post-colonial Australia]).
The problem lies when people close their minds to anything but a single perspective on the matter.

There are no easy answers, which is precisely why those who implicitly understand this get frustrated about what "they" should do, as "we do so much for them already" or whatever take you choose to take on it.
Ironically, this is anything but a black and white problem, with no easy fix.
Welfare dependence, long term unemployment, loss of traditional language and tradition and police brutality...it's a fucking shit sandwich, dude.

A nation of nomadic peoples suddenly being subjected to political boundaries different to their own, brutal religious shit forced down their throats, being shackled, harshly imprisoned or murdered for doing as they'd always done; lived off the land (be it some colonial farmer's sheep made little difference to people who had no need for agriculture - about as large a clash of civilisations imaginable.
These wounds don't mend in generations; not in hundreds of years. We've seen it all over the world - this "warm and fuzzy" form of colonialism that is still degrading and exploitative to the poor people involved.
Personally I think the worst thing we - as a "nation" (pseudo representative to a token monarchy of a commonwealth in name only) can do is lay blame on blackfellas.
I get pissed off when I hear racism directed towards aboriginal people because I am reminded of the rape of this nation by the cunts that stole it off those poor bastards, took away their babies (to breed them out of the human population) and have spent the last 200+ years imprisoning and murdering them. I say "them" because I speak as a white Australian, something I'm increasing ashamed to call myself thanks to...racists, really.
Whatever form they take.

 

[thestudent14]

Cause can correlate to correlation if I understand you correctly, unless cause correlates to correlation as a synonym, since correlation is just causation without a cause and causation correlates with that which it caused because it is the cause. I'm not sure what caused you to say that cause does not correlate to correlation; do you not correlate with me because I did not mention causes' correlation to correlation or do you think my post about correlation not meaning causation is the cause of your comment's correlation to mine in saying cause does not correlate to correlation?

Love this post

@opi8
I mentioned that episode in this thread like two pages ago haha, there's another appropriate quote “No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.” - Nelson Mandela

 

[Standup]

At the end of the day, being offended is a choice. Race/ethnicity is something your born with, something that you cant change, just like your nose. Is being racist that much worse saying someone is ugly? At the end of the day both insults are directed at something the person had no control over and cant change, and at the end of the day you can ignore it or choose to be offended. Choosing to be offended on someone elses behalf, for something that wasnt intended to be offensive is even better.

Now look at the japanese people. What we did to them was arguably one of the more horrific things in history. The people close to the bomb got vaporised, the unlucky ones abit further away had their skin and body melt, and most of the rest died of cancer or radiation sickness. They bounced back fairly strongly. People are plenty racist towards asian people too. But its all in good fun, everyone laughs and it mostly isnt a problem. The important thing is that the japanese people amazingly hold the opposite of a grudge. Ive been to hiroshima, and walking through the bomb memorial we had japanese people walk up to us and bow to us. An older japanese man in a business suit, very nicely dressed walked over, bowed down onto his knees infront of us, thanked us then walked off.

Asian people haul ass at starcraft and DOTA, aboriginal/black people are responsible for an unproportionate amount of bike theft at night time. Political correctness makes society boring. You cant say that about black people, drugs are bad for you etc etc. Ill say whatever i want about whoever i want, they can tell me if they were offended, ill tell them to lighten the fuck up or say sorry if it was in bad taste. More importantly, stop trying to be offended at everything you see. Most of my ethnic friends poke just as much fun at themselves as they do at us for not being able to dance etc. Genuine, hateful racism isnt a common thing i dont think, and it goes all ways

 

[thestudent14]

Haha I'll take them in Starcraft and Dota any day of the week... although those Koreans are very crafty players (pun intended)

But seriously, I think that's a good point, but I would argue that what our ancestors did to the Indigenous people is much worse, only because we were at war with the Japanese and I don't doubt that had the rolls been reversed that they too would've dropped a nuke. But the Japanese are resilient people, I think them not being able to have a military has done great good for their country despite those that suffered. They're now leaders in all area's of science and have a thriving economy. But I think we're getting off track, and most Indigenous people I've ever met have nothing against white Australians and most love the way the country has been shaped. I guess they'd prefer to live in a modern society rather then the way their ancestors did. I agree with SpaceJunk that we're all genetically pretty much the same, the physical side of us differ between ethnicities but our brains are virtually identical. But by that very token we should accept that what our countries ancestors did, whilst horrific no different to what other nationality's would have. People's actions are dependent of the time and their understanding at that point in time. We should do whatever we can to help out and I recognize that, but we still have a poor system. I knew Indigenous australians in high school who used to get paid just to go to school every week before the rest of us were entitled to youth allowance and yet their families were far more well off then mine and alot of my friends family's. This kind of thing just re-enforces that we're different, when we should all be getting treated equally. I'd be more satisfied with abolishing laws that help Indigenous folk more and just do what's right, which is help poverty. Help the people who need it, a high percentage of this will be Indigenous Australians which is fine, but we shouldn't be giving extra cash to families that don't need it just because of the colour of their skin.

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

At the end of the day, being offended is a choice. Race/ethnicity is something your born with, something that you cant change, just like your nose. Is being racist that much worse saying someone is ugly? At the end of the day both insults are directed at something the person had no control over and cant change, and at the end of the day you can ignore it or choose to be offended. Choosing to be offended on someone elses behalf, for something that wasnt intended to be offensive is even better.

Now look at the japanese people. What we did to them was arguably one of the more horrific things in history. The people close to the bomb got vaporised, the unlucky ones abit further away had their skin and body melt, and most of the rest died of cancer or radiation sickness. They bounced back fairly strongly. People are plenty racist towards asian people too. But its all in good fun, everyone laughs and it mostly isnt a problem. The important thing is that the japanese people amazingly hold the opposite of a grudge. Ive been to hiroshima, and walking through the bomb memorial we had japanese people walk up to us and bow to us. An older japanese man in a business suit, very nicely dressed walked over, bowed down onto his knees infront of us, thanked us then walked off.

Asian people haul ass at starcraft and DOTA, aboriginal/black people are responsible for an unproportionate amount of bike theft at night time. Political correctness makes society boring. You cant say that about black people, drugs are bad for you etc etc. Ill say whatever i want about whoever i want, they can tell me if they were offended, ill tell them to lighten the fuck up or say sorry if it was in bad taste. More importantly, stop trying to be offended at everything you see. Most of my ethnic friends poke just as much fun at themselves as they do at us for not being able to dance etc. Genuine, hateful racism isnt a common thing i dont think, and it goes all ways

dawg racism isnt cool
people SHOULD be offended at racism/homophobia/sexism.
just saying "dont be offended" is pretty much enabling in my opinion at least

 

[poledriver]

The engravings were made by the Aboriginal people who have lived in the Sydney region from about 25000 years ago

Description

This site has a number of beautiful and enigmatic drawings of people, kangaroos, fish, and symbols. To the North are a group of a man and three women. The man has a fish touching one hand, and a crescent touching the other. It is not clear whether the crescent is a moon or a boomerang. The woman standing next to the man is an adult, with breasts beneathe her ampits, while the other two women appear to be young girls without breasts.

Nearby is a man or a turtle containing a fish, together with another man.

To the South are a man and a woman reaching up towards a crescent, which may either be a boomerang or a moon. Note how the woman stands behind the man and is partly obscured by him, rather than overlapping him.

Nearby is a hermaphrodite figure, and a beautiful mob of kangaroos or wallabies in full flight. It has been claimed that these represent the cluster of stars known as the Pleiades or Seven Sisters, although it is unclear upon what this claim is based.

What does this all mean? To me it is reminiscent of the beautiful art painted by the Yolngu people of Arnhem Land, and we know that their artwork represents stories of the Dreaming. Perhaps these engravings too tell a story of the creator spirits in the Dreaming. Or perhaps they mean something else altogether.

 

[Nozphexezora]

Thanks for taking in my point, but "race" does not exist.
Ethnicity? Sure.
Race? Not in people. It's an archaic word based upon an old understanding of human biology.

Splitting hairs, maybe - but I was really engaging with bunny munroe's post more than anything else.

But the definition of race differs from ethnicity. The only conclusion you brought up is that race is determined by more recent family history as opposed to thousands of years ago when race was one.

 

[spacejunk]

That's incorrect.
I can't be fucked referencing such a concept - suffice to say that it's patently incorrect.
We all evolved from a small group of individuals that migrated from Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago.
At no point did we become a different race. We just evolved to adapt (physically and culturally) to the different geographic/climatic/environmental differences that we encountered across the globe.
It's fairly elementary with our current understanding of science, genetics and anthropology.
"Race", in our context, is "the human race" - nothing more or less.
This is why racist ideology is horseshit; it has nothing to back it up.

Be prejudiced or against ethnicities all you like, but this concept of "race" and the differences between them is so 19th century.
Next we'll have cats spouting phrenology on here.

 

[thickskin]

Not that the semantics are the issue here but you are using the word race as if its the same word as species.
Race exists in the sense that people actually mean when they use the word. They don't mean some old style these people are completely incompatible biologically.
Race also exists somewhat beyond the subjective concept of it. For example higher incidents of certain gene markers which can code for certain diseases and for things such as your ability to process alcohol.

Sorry to derail, I have nothing to add about the actual topic being discussed!

That's incorrect.
I can't be fucked referencing such a concept - suffice to say that it's patently incorrect.
We all evolved from a small group of individuals that migrated from Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago.
At no point did we become a different race. We just evolved to adapt (physically and culturally) to the different geographic/climatic/environmental differences that we encountered across the globe.
It's fairly elementary with our current understanding of science, genetics and anthropology.
"Race", in our context, is "the human race" - nothing more or less.
This is why racist ideology is horseshit; it has nothing to back it up.

Be prejudiced or against ethnicities all you like, but this concept of "race" and the differences between them is so 19th century.
Next we'll have cats spouting phrenology on here.

 

[spacejunk]

^true that might be - people use words to mean what they are understood to mean - the point I am getting at is that prior to the 1967 referendum, indigenous Australians were not even considered to be human, and treated as such.
You see the same thing in many colonial regimes of that era and earlier (hence things such as slavery, which happened in Australia - not just the USA - and a complete lack of human rights).
So, semantically it's arguable, but in the context of Australia, such incredibly recent history of such institutionalised racism, I think it is worth pointing out.
The examples you give regarding the metabolism of alcohol applies to many things - tolerance to lactose, gluten and a range of things some groups of humans eat. I don't think this differentiates us any more than our ancestral environmental backgrounds.

This thread is way off topic...

 

[gimpan]

Dude, you basically called someone retarded for stating that the genocide against Aboriginees was a genocide, that is pretty fucking ignorant and honestly if you were so misinformed on the topic then why are you calling other people retarded for calling it like it is? Not everybody can be informed on every issue but if you are not informed then maybe you should keep your trap shut before you spout off insults and other ignorant comments.

You might not be racist but I don't think you can really blame anyone for wondering if you are after some of the things you have said. I don't neccesarily believe that you are a racist but I do think you are part of the overall problem, so many white Australians seem to assume they know everything about this issue despite the fact they have spent zero time educating themselves on it, and the assumptions they make and opinions that they form tend to be negative bullshit like we do too much to help them, or they don't do enough to help themselves or really dumb shit like we never even committed genocide against them or they are exempt from the law which aren't really an opinion, more like disputing facts. I believe it is this pervasive attitude that keeps the status quo from changing and it would be refreshing to see more people educating themselves before they chime in with their 2 cents.

"so many white Australians seem to assume they know everything about this issue despite the fact they have spent zero time educating themselves on it"

So many white Australians? Is it only white Australians that are the ignorant on the subject? what about Asian Australians, African Australians or even Aboriginal Australians?