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Petrol Sniffing in Indigenous Communities

footscrazy said:
Petrol sniffing is deemed to be a serious problem in several Indigenous communities. Stats (which should be taken with a grain of salt) suggest that over 100 Indigenous people across Australia have died across Australia 1981 to 2003 from petrol sniffing [/URL]
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Thats 100 deaths in 22 years, how does that compare with other causes of death like alcohol, murder, cancer, diabetics, opiate abuse etc....?
 
webbykevin said:
Thats 100 deaths in 22 years, how does that compare with other causes of death like alcohol, murder, cancer, diabetics, opiate abuse etc....?
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Amount of deaths is irrelevant without considering amount of users; if there was a ratio out there I'm sure the statistics would be different. Besides, we're talking about indigenous drug-using in this thread; focusing all of our concern on the main factors and leaving the minorities out is just as callous as doing vice versa. The authorities at least try to distribute a level of action proportional to that which is needed.
 
It may not kill you but a quick way to develop Acquired Brain Injury, is inhaling Hydrocarbons
 
Hydrocarbons technically is petrol which is the main propellant in most aerosol cans and next most common I have found in my use is butane
 
Firstly, Foots, I would like to say thanks for starting this thread. Massive props man.

I enjoyed the read and the various thoughts in the thread have left me also probably asking myself more questions and seeing so many situations and problems that I had never really seen before.

As for answers........Its tough.

I think the first thing that really comes to mind is, What do these communities want?

I rather struggle with the concept that I living where I do and with my cultural upbringing can even vaguely begin to understand what is the best thing to do. Every idea keeps coming back to the base of What do these communities want.

I think spending much time talking with the communities to find out what they are looking for and indeed as someone up there suggested...........what are there dreams for a future, for the future?

My next question is...........What can I do to help them achieve there aims.

I cant change the past and sadly there have been some attrocious things that have happenned to these communities over the years. I cant change whats happenned but maybe I can help to improve the future.
 
I think deathdomokuns opinion was pretty unfairly dismissed. You can get all emotional about the plight of the aboriginals, but at the end of the day, when your worrying about your car getting broken into because theres 20 aboriginals sniffing paint in the carpark, theres a pretty big problem at hand, and your not gonna be cool with your car getting broken into because aboriginals have suffered through alot. Ive been surrounded by a group of aboriginals, one who had a knife, asking for heroin money in a back alley, and while overall the whole situation is sad, fuck that, i have no sympathy for those individuals and neither would most other people in that situation. AKA fuck getting stabbed. This is gonna be a 'racist issue' because statistically the aboriginals are complete fuck ups and a general problem, meaning they sort of need to be dealt with separately, but its politically incorrect to say that because the aboriginals are from the dream time and what not.

Im all for drug use, but when your drug use becomes self destructive, and basically turns you into everyone elses problem, then thats not ok. So no I dont think everyone should have access to their DOC if they cant use it responsibly, and lets face it petrol is pretty hard to 'use responsibly'. Banning petrol, the cheap substance of choice, will mean a cheaper nastier substance will be found, or crime will likely increase though. I think the government needs to give the aboriginal people more responsibility in bringing their own communities together. Theres no chance for the current wave of aboriginal drug abusers, its the next generation of kids that need to be given responsibility, a bit of discipline, and a bit of direction early on in life. These guys arent unemployed because theres NO work available, they are unemployed because they are impossible to employee and a lot dont try.

My dad saw a little aboriginal girl be rehomed under the governments plan when he was young and working in the outback. Both her parents were alcoholics, abusive and neglective. The girl was 15 and already an anxious wreck, randomnly violently angry, and didnt get on well with other kids. We saw that plan fail, but I think the next gen of kids are the only way to break the cycle. The aboriginal community just needs to be given more resources to reach out to their own community. To badly quote Dr phil, kids can grow up fine in a broken home, but growing up in a breaking home is pretty mentally distressful.

In terms of a solution heres an interesting read on cultural genetics, and a possible way of normalising people to be best chemically (brain wise) suited to todays lifestyle. http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/the-...-smarter-and-save-the-world?utm_source=vicefb
 
Standup said:
I think deathdomokuns opinion was pretty unfairly dismissed. You can get all emotional about the plight of the aboriginals, but at the end of the day, when your worrying about your car getting broken into because theres 20 aboriginals sniffing paint in the carpark, theres a pretty big problem at hand, and your not gonna be cool with your car getting broken into because aboriginals have suffered through alot. Ive been surrounded by a group of aboriginals, one who had a knife, asking for heroin money in a back alley, and while overall the whole situation is sad, fuck that, i have no sympathy for those individuals and neither would most other people in that situation. AKA fuck getting stabbed. This is gonna be a 'racist issue' because statistically the aboriginals are complete fuck ups and a general problem, meaning they sort of need to be dealt with separately, but its politically incorrect to say that because the aboriginals are from the dream time and what not.

Im all for drug use, but when your drug use becomes self destructive, and basically turns you into everyone elses problem, then thats not ok. So no I dont think everyone should have access to their DOC if they cant use it responsibly, and lets face it petrol is pretty hard to 'use responsibly'. Banning petrol, the cheap substance of choice, will mean a cheaper nastier substance will be found, or crime will likely increase though. I think the government needs to give the aboriginal people more responsibility in bringing their own communities together. Theres no chance for the current wave of aboriginal drug abusers, its the next generation of kids that need to be given responsibility, a bit of discipline, and a bit of direction early on in life. These guys arent unemployed because theres NO work available, they are unemployed because they are impossible to employee and a lot dont try.

My dad saw a little aboriginal girl be rehomed under the governments plan when he was young and working in the outback. Both her parents were alcoholics, abusive and neglective. The girl was 15 and already an anxious wreck, randomnly violently angry, and didnt get on well with other kids. We saw that plan fail, but I think the next gen of kids are the only way to break the cycle. The aboriginal community just needs to be given more resources to reach out to their own community. To badly quote Dr phil, kids can grow up fine in a broken home, but growing up in a breaking home is pretty mentally distressful.

In terms of a solution heres an interesting read on cultural genetics, and a possible way of normalising people to be best chemically (brain wise) suited to todays lifestyle. http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/the-...-smarter-and-save-the-world?utm_source=vicefb
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The way I see it is; people can have the freedom to do whatever they wish, so long as their decisions don't impair the freedom of others'. Me stealing money for drugs? That's taking away the freedom of the victim using that money to do as they please for my own freedom of spending it on drugs.
 
I dont think thats completely true. Freedom without the right knowledge and guidance is pretty dangerous, do you agree a legal drinking(/other drugs) age is a good thing?
 
This thread has just reminded me of the time I watched teenagers roaring up and down the seafront in Abu Dhabi on motorbikes with a plastic tube from the petrol tank up their nostrils.
 
Originally Posted by footscrazy
How do you think the harms resulting from petrol sniffing should be addressed?
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Give them something to do. If you're living in a shitty little house, kicking around dirt all day, you're bound to get bored and you may turn to a substance that will help pass the time and cease the boredom. A lot of people have jobs, which might contribute to their lack of abusing solvents.
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I think this is actually was a pretty valid point. I think it was worded poorly, deathdomokun seemed irrationally annoyed about the topic.

Space junks reply
this comment demonstrates your absolute ignorance on the matter at hand. if you seriously think "they" are just lacking "something to do" then i seriously suggest you try visiting some of these outback towns. how do "they" get a job when there is little to no economy in the area?
if you think the challenges faced by indigenous australia - particularly outer rural communities - are as simple as what you have said above, then i really think you have no place voicing your opinion. sure, you're entitled to have it, but maybe you should keep it to yourself.

the hardships faced by these people are the result of centuries of brutal white colonialism that carved up and stole their lands, raped, murdered and imprisoned people as they treated the various ways of living on that land as 'primitive' as well as 'criminal'.

an example of how cold - and how recent - this history is; it is only since the 1967 referendum that indigenous australians were counted as human beings on the australian census.
the belief among many white leaders and pastoralists of the time was that 'australian natives' were a breed that were dying out, so they (in the christian wisdom) saw to it, in many cases, to help this process along a bit.
nowadays, we call that sort of thing genocide.

generations of persecution and dispossession, babies stolen from their mothers, countless ancient languages and belief systems destroyed by compulsory teaching of the english language and christianity, "settlement" camps and all the other shameful bullshit that has gone on in this country. i won't keep raving on about it, because i feel it is clearly wasted on you, DeathDomokun.
your personal history of drug use, drug substitution or "stopping the self-destructive and apathetic drug use as a means of escaping an issue" is utterly irrelevant to this topic.

reading back on what you've written, i start to think that maybe i should ease off on you a little bit because you clearly have no fucking idea what you're talking about. but because you are commenting as if you have something worthwhile to say, i will say this-
before you go around talking like you understand what is happening in some of these deeply troubled communities, try getting off your arse and seeing them for yourself. learn about their history. talk to the people; listen to the hopes, their fears, their dreams, the problems.

this might be a bit 'advanced' for you, so i'll give you a more realistic suggestion; take advantage of the privileged position you find yourself in, as a literate australian, and educate yourself.
learn something about this country and its history. learn about why is is we have communities within our own country with life expectancy and infant mortality rates that are worse than some of the poorest developing nations. why we still have people suffering tuberculosis and leprosy in this country.
it is those people that don't do this - that think these massive social problems are things people have 'brought upon themselves' that are a big part of the problem.
the substance abuse problems that plague rural indigenous australia are just the tip of the iceberg.
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But I think the point deathdomokun was trying to make is that if there is little to do in a town then turning to drug abuse makes a lot of sense. I've seen this happen here in suburban South East Melbourne so I see no difference in the sense that when people have no job, and have nothing fun to do, and drugs are cheap/available to them then this is the time they are most likely to abuse. It's not as easy as saying "give them something to do". But spacejunks reply didn't really argue against that point when he said "how do "they" get a job when there is little to no economy in the area?" I think this goes into giving them something to do. The best way to tackle the issue as far as I can see is to put more jobs into the area, not just argicultural jobs but also fun jobs. A simple cinema or a skate park can do a lot for a country town as can local sports teams.

If we could implement more economy into these towns and help them to grow perhaps they wouldn't turn to petrol sniffing as much. Fundimentally I don't have a problem with people choosing to enjoy their DOC but I would try to help people to avoid abusing harmful substances.
 
as a timezone employee, every fri/sat night, we would reguarly get families of aboriginals throwing round 100s of dollars of cash with the parents both high and drunk and smelling rather obviously of it. Knew a guy who bought boong weed because he was new in perth. Walked into the house, got a stick, walked out, was followed and pulled over by cops (watching the house), searched and charged with possession, aboriginals are still there openly selling weed. If they were organised enough to set up a massive drug ring theyd be laughing because they are pretty much exempt from the law.
 
Standup said:
as a timezone employee, every fri/sat night, we would reguarly get families of aboriginals throwing round 100s of dollars of cash with the parents both high and drunk and smelling rather obviously of it. Knew a guy who bought boong weed because he was new in perth. Walked into the house, got a stick, walked out, was followed and pulled over by cops (watching the house), searched and charged with possession, aboriginals are still there openly selling weed. If they were organised enough to set up a massive drug ring theyd be laughing because they are pretty much exempt from the law.
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Don't think they'd be watching the house if they didn't plan to make some form of bust. I don't think they are in any way exempt from the law or get special consideration in this sense. However I know very few aboriginals so I can't be sure of this, it just seems unlikely to me.
 
well the open house story was kinda flavoured 2nd hand information since the guy who got done was pretty pissed off about it, but they definately get a bit of special treatment in the system, and ive only ever seen them abuse it. I guess ive personally had a lot of bad experiences with aboriginals
 
I have no doubt that the receive special treatment in our system, some of it justified, some of it not. But when it comes to drug dealing I'd be surprised if there was any kind of significant difference between Aboriginals and other Australians.
 
Thank you ts14.
I wasn't implying it was the sole cause, as there is no sole cause.
There is so much contributes to this issue, and the government puts the indigenous out of sight, and out of mind, in tiny towns in the middle of nowhere.

I never insinuated I understood what it's like to be in that circumstance, nor did I say "putting them in society" would solve their drug abuse problems, let alone-

Standup, you don't seem to know what you're talking about at all.
Aboriginals (and torres straight islanders) make up something like 2.5% of the Australian population, whereas they make up 25% of the prison population.
That's sure is something special, isn't it?

Our government is disgusting, and you're still dribbling shit about them "getting it good" from the government.

"The age-standardised imprisonment rate for Indigenous people was 1,891 people per 100,000 of adult population, while for non-Indigenous people it was 136, which meant that the imprisonment rate for Indigenous people was 14 times higher than that of non-Indigenous people. The imprisonment rate for Indigenous people had increased from 1,248 per 100,000 of adult population in 2000, while it remained stable for non-Indigenous people."
 
I guess ive personally had a lot of bad experiences with aboriginals
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I guess i've had some bad experiences with nearly every race at some point. I must say I have met some really cool aboriginals with alot of great ideas and good values tho.

Not that this has anything to do with petrol sniffing in indigenous communities at all.
 
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Abject im not sure if those stats mean anything close to enough to say the aboriginals are unfairly treated and its all the governments fault. To me those stats say one thing, aboriginal people are a problem in the legal system. And from what Ive seen they actually just dont want to arrest them because of that reason. Rates of aboriginal crime and what not are high, and obviously thats gonna mean that a lot of aboriginal people are in prisons, especially the more aggressive crimes, less understanding cops, whatever.

But look at public intoxication, stealing, small amounts of possession etc. What does a minor possession charge mean for someone on permanent government handouts whos never had a job? Taxpayer burden either way. Ive seen them be let off all those charges. That time I got threatened with a stabbing, was a group of aboriginals in the CBD at night, syringes lying round, a couple of them were obviously completely fucked, police literally 20m away next to maccas, meaning I was shitting my pants hoping they were hearing the slight ruckus. Nope. All im saying is somewhat of a blind eye obviously gets turned, to what extent i obviously have no clue, but ive seen it.

The aboriginals might hate the government, and the governemnt might be shit, but you can bet theyre all at centrelink every fortnight for their check, courtesy of the government. Ive had to live off governemnt hand outs for half a year due to disability, and fuck me, they are far more generous than i expected. I was smoking weed all day every day, eating maccas a few times a day, doing pills most weekends, spending pretty recklessly and I never had an issue with money in that time. Shoutouts to the labour govt. In fact what is it that the government is doing that is keeping the aboriginals stuck in a life of crime? Everyone here seems to blame the government for the situation, but for what exactly? They are putting money into it, so they arent doing nothing, or trying to worsen the problem.

What if the issue is that a lot of aboriginals are actually getting it too good, ie they have no motivation to be self supporting. Govt handouts easily support a cheap to moderate price drug addiction - petrol, alcohol, weed etc. To start earning better than government hand outs you need like a part time job, then you dont get handouts anymore. When you are earning a passable weekly salary for a total of 0hrs work per week, you also have a lot of spare time, and drugs are round.
 
What the white people like myself have done to the indigenous community is disgusting. Its up to us to help them, not just say sorry but address the real problems. I worked at an indigenous mens recovery centre for work placement for my course, it can be hard for them to trust the white folk and I dont blame them. What I learnt about how we trewated them was a real eye opener and if some of the things that had happened to them suddenly happened to you... you would be getting high any way you can too.....oh wait you already are...
 
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