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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread: If 2020 Was the Dumpster, Can 2021 Be the Fire?

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Y’all want classy
Dig this set

... lol I know it’s just a bunch of psy mashups but I heard it one night (my first time trying 1cP, iirc) and it’s had some sentimental value ever since
 
Sounds like..... psychedelics? :D
I do still feel like a noob in the face of psychedelics, most of it stems from an inability to fully let go physically, which is an extension of the mental game. I circumvent by moving a lot.
By this do you mean that psychedelics help you "think critically" about things? They don't really, in my experience (by which I mean my personal experience as well as years of observation of the culture.) Psychedelics touch a part of the brain that is the "I am having a profound mystical experience" center. What a person does with that is up to them. Often, this leads to a very un-critical approach to the psychedelic experience itself. You see this all over the language people use to talk about tripping. Even the phrase "get the message and then hang up the phone," a pretty laudable sentiment, is Ba problem in that there is assumed to be a "message" coming from drugs, which is silly. There is no message. At best, there is a sort of "lens" through which things are perceived that is different from the ordinary one. Integrating the experience requires a comparison between the two "images," not preferring the psychedelic one to the quotidian one. Down the latter path lies madness.
 
By this do you mean that psychedelics help you "think critically" about things? They don't really, in my experience (by which I mean my personal experience as well as years of observation of the culture.) Psychedelics touch a part of the brain that is the "I am having a profound mystical experience" center. What a person does with that is up to them. Often, this leads to a very un-critical approach to the psychedelic experience itself. You see this all over the language people use to talk about tripping. Even the phrase "get the message and then hang up the phone," a pretty laudable sentiment, is Ba problem in that there is assumed to be a "message" coming from drugs, which is silly. There is no message. At best, there is a sort of "lens" through which things are perceived that is different from the ordinary one. Integrating the experience requires a comparison between the two "images," not preferring the psychedelic one to the quotidian one. Down the latter path lies madness.

I agree with this sentiment. I've taken to calling the psychedelic headspace one of "hyper-significance" or "hyper-relevance" in which the psycho-somato-emotional resonance resultant from perceiving certain stimuli, whether internal or external, is massively amplified and subsequently fit into associatively connected networks of meaning. From over here, it doesn't seem like psychedelics cause an increase in critical perception, but instead, an increase in the felt reactions to significant stimuli. This tends to look like strong somatic and emotional processes in relation to various aspects of one's life and self which, taken immediately, look like an increase in critical thinking because of the contraction of potential to "escape" meaningful aspects, processes, and situations of one's life. However, it's simply (maybe) an intensification of what was already there, not a new perception resultant from increased criticality. In this way, I too agree with the statement that psychedelics touch the "profound mystical experience" part of the brain. And it must be noted that that experience is vastly different than the experience of critical analysis.
 
By this do you mean that psychedelics help you "think critically" about things? They don't really, in my experience (by which I mean my personal experience as well as years of observation of the culture.) Psychedelics touch a part of the brain that is the "I am having a profound mystical experience" center. What a person does with that is up to them. Often, this leads to a very un-critical approach to the psychedelic experience itself. You see this all over the language people use to talk about tripping. Even the phrase "get the message and then hang up the phone," a pretty laudable sentiment, is Ba problem in that there is assumed to be a "message" coming from drugs, which is silly. There is no message. At best, there is a sort of "lens" through which things are perceived that is different from the ordinary one. Integrating the experience requires a comparison between the two "images," not preferring the psychedelic one to the quotidian one. Down the latter path lies madness.
I also agree with the sentiment, as well as your comments on psychedelic culture, but would like to gently push back on a few aspects, in the interest of playing devil's advocate and also, probably, a desire to defend my own rationalisations for continuing to use a wide array of drugs even having been addicted to a few, and with full awareness that in many cases my use has been dysfunctional and in some cases, surely has caused more problems than it's solved. In the vernacular of the 12 step system I would surely be called an addict in denial. 😏

I also admit to cringing slightly whenever I read people talking about plans to undertake a heavy psychedelic experience in order to "reset" or to "fix" themselves. By my observations, this is almost never going to be the outcome, and the problems whatever that person is wanting to solve are, likely, not ones that can be solved easily, even with the gentle prompts that psychedelics can give - such as, for example, although not exclusively, a different way of looking at the world, and at one's life.

The problem here I think - or one of them - is that the altered modes of consciousness that allows one to see reality in a different way - where your problems are no longer insurmountable, your depression, clearly irrational, whatever - are generally quite heavily reliant on one existing temporarily within this altered state. And, while sometimes lasting insights with real benefits can be gained, the psychedelic experience does nothing to actually teach you how to get there, really, or to teach you why this way of looking at the world, or your life, makes sense. It just thrusts you into it, blindfolded and unable to see the cognitive path taken to get there. Sometimes, the mere knowledge that this version of reality exists, and that the way you see things, the way you choose to act or whatever it is that perpetuates your problems does not have to be permanent, is enough. In many cases, it isn't, and thus requires constantly revisiting the psychedelic otherworld for a reminder. This, typically, is not sustainable, because the version of reality you are thrust into is different every time, and even more than that, the brain is not consistent in it's ability to interpret highly abnormal input, resulting in the very real possibility that the net outcome will be negative. The more often one returns to this place, the higher the likelihood that the experience will not be good, and any lasting insights will be negative ones. When this happens obviously it can be a real problem, because if one is reliant purely on psychedelic experiences to remain psychologically well, and that method is exposed as an unreliable one, the rug of security and wellness is pulled out from beneath them and the path forward can be very unclear.

All that said - I actually disagree that there is no message. The psychedelic experience itself is the message, and the message is, at it's most fundamental level, there is far more in the space of conscious experience than you have previously known, or can know, from within the confines of your human mind.

This is a fairly neutral message, and does not, in and of itself, contain any measure of the value of any of these non-ordinary, arguably quite unnatural types of experiences - it only shows you that they exist, they are there.

I agree with your "lens" analogy regardless but I think if anything that actually supports the point I made above, because we already have a lens which we use to perceive reality. The default lens which most of us refer to as "sobriety" is the fairly diffuse and abstractly defined set of cognitive processes which operate continuously and subconsciously as the software that runs on the hardware of the brain, to interpret the cacophony of sense data we receive at every moment from the universe outside ourselves, and shape it into our experience of reality. The lens itself is not reality, of course, but our perception and lived experience which is our inner world, facilitated by our brain's natural lensing of the somewhat organised chaos we live within, is our reality. A telescope, for example, viewing the night sky, is a lens. The stars are distant objects, outside of ourselves. What we see through the telescope is a lensed interpretation of something that we cannot ever perceive directly without firstly the lens of a powerful enough telescope - and, secondly, the lens of our mind's sense processing algorithms. Perhaps a better example is a camera that takes a picture. The camera is the lense, the picture is the representation of the reality, which is the object the camera is focused on. If we cannot ever see the object directly - which in the case of conscious experience, without methods of perception - senses, neuronal processes - we never can - the picture is a representation of reality, and as good as reality itself. Reality is a representation.

Actually as I've been typing this post I realise I need to make another distinction here as my initial thoughts may not be entirely accurate. Psychedelic drugs themselves can well be said to be lenses, they manipulate and distort the complex neurochemical processes going on within our physical brains, adding another refractor to the default reality lens we are born with, or otherwise stretching it, contorting it, injecting various modification algorithms, depending on how you want to view it. But the psychedelic experience itself - the lived experience induced by a psychedelic drug - is not a lens, it is a version of reality, which is itself always an incomplete representation of the unknowable existence outside ourselves.

Of course, that lesson - that it's possible to experience reality in a different way - is not necessarily a useful one, and needs to be interpreted smartly, critically, and usually post-experiemce, back in the more familiar realm that we generally consider to be "consensus reality", when our higher reasoning functions are properly operational again, and not simply overwhelmed, nonfunctioning, unable to make rational judgements about anything because of the sheer alien nature of the psychedelic experience. I will note here though that the reason, in my view, for the severe impairment of higher reasoning that usually serves us very well when sober is at least partly down to the fact that most of us spend the vast majority of our lives existing solely within consensus reality, and thus our brains adapt to operate most effectively in the environment they usually exist within, for obvious evolutionary reasons. I think it's not inconceivable - and I implied this somewhat, I think, in an earlier post - that effective and rational ways to reason, in ways that are beneficial both to humanity and to the individual in the long term - could occur within altered modes of consciousness akin to those of the psychedelic experience. Just, quite possibly, not yet, and not with any psychedelic drug we currently have at our disposal.

I would like to express a few things about the 12 step method also as I have thought about it a lot in the last 6 months or so and have spoken at length to a few people currently within that world - and I'm sure I would be very interested to hear your opinion. But, this post is probably long enough for now so that can wait for another time.
 
could only get 2.5 g of weed but im impressed by the score reminds of the skunky stuff i use to smoke way back nice fruity smells cant wait to roll a joint tomorrow night blaze it up and chill with this girl.

Hopefully i get linked up soon with a weed plug here soon i need some destress once a week and weed will be okay as long i dont smoke it every night. Plus the insane visuals weed gives me these days is truly on another level and they last for hours. Smoked 2 cones last year one day and was fucking tripping heavy visuals from like 11 pm til 4 am. Really heavy LSD type visuals.
 
By this do you mean that psychedelics help you "think critically" about things? They don't really, in my experience (by which I mean my personal experience as well as years of observation of the culture.) Psychedelics touch a part of the brain that is the "I am having a profound mystical experience" center. What a person does with that is up to them. Often, this leads to a very un-critical approach to the psychedelic experience itself. You see this all over the language people use to talk about tripping. Even the phrase "get the message and then hang up the phone," a pretty laudable sentiment, is Ba problem in that there is assumed to be a "message" coming from drugs, which is silly. There is no message. At best, there is a sort of "lens" through which things are perceived that is different from the ordinary one. Integrating the experience requires a comparison between the two "images," not preferring the psychedelic one to the quotidian one. Down the latter path lies madness.
Of course they do, it surprises me you think nobody here seems to think so. I certainly agree that some psychedelics have a slightly delusional side, but it’s bouncing off ideas, and taking in stuff that you might have missed in the haze of everyday life. And afterwards there are weeks of the same bouncing of ideas.. I don’t see how this isn’t valuable at all, the key is in assigning the right weight to things and not go overboard. When you trip a lot, you get a good feel for how certain psychedelics affect you, positive and negative.

For example, I know that LSD will make me feel like I’ve finally found the key to all my problems, I am aware that is a laughable statement, and it’s why I love the drug so much. That doesn’t mean the insights are directly applicable but it only forces me to evaluate more. Without I’d just be living and living, completely unaware of many small things, of course a timely recalibration helps me think more critically about things, especially around myself or relationship to others, I won’t really be thinking about politics or climate change all that much. I’ve also never had a profound mystical experience, only beyond epic drug experiences at most.

Ah I just realised that we’re basically saying the same, the ”lens” so to say, well yes I am very convinced that lens helps me be more critical about things related to my life, and indeed comparison to the sober one is key. That’s not to say that just any shift in headspace is necessarily beneficial, although I used to believe that at some point hah.
 
with LSD its important to learn to properly use the mind manifesting powers of it to have a full experince.

I am still a believer in the 200-300 ug been most effective for massive changes. Will see this girl reacts to weed i will be rolling a entire 1g fat skunky straight joint and no skipping turns! it will hit me harder but 1g is what we and me mate shared all the time. It will be a good test to see if acid is for her.

When you smoke with my crew there is no tapping out. I can rip the fuck out of fat joints love joints the most.

A few times on acid i have smoked a entire fat kingsize raw paper joint to myself lol while peaking. Not recommended at all dangerous place to be on any dose once on 150 ug i took 17 hits of the joint straight my lungs were crazy i then finished the joint got out of the car i was passenger in and gagged and threw up heavy lol then went got taken on a tour while tripping the fuck out endless fractals i was so gone when we went through the mcdonalds drive thru everything was dissolving into hellish infinite fractals i had to breathe through it all man i will still remeber the mcdonalds sign dissolving atom by atom to reavel some portal to the afterlife i managed to hold onto my sanity barely. i was also heavily drunk when i took the acid at 2 am lol. once we got home my trip sitter slept and i just laid down on the ground with a blanket listening to music was heavy tripping had some really insane visuals look at album artwork. At one point i saw a ancient nature entity shaman type figure sitting on the bed. Eventually i passed out lol was so tired and blazzed and drunk around 7 am.
 
I installed a Windows 10 update this morning and it hosed my Internet, but I could still see network connections and get email through my work network. I tried everything, Microsoft had various issues and solutions documented from this update but this was not one of them. Everything I tried that people suggested did nothing. I just finished doing a network reset to factory settings. That seemed to work, crossing my fingers it isn't fucked after a little bit as some other things I tried got it to work for a brief time (this would be the longest so far though). I keep getting a "missing DLL file" notification every time I restart. So annoying.
 
By this do you mean that psychedelics help you "think critically" about things? They don't really, in my experience (by which I mean my personal experience as well as years of observation of the culture.) Psychedelics touch a part of the brain that is the "I am having a profound mystical experience" center. What a person does with that is up to them. Often, this leads to a very un-critical approach to the psychedelic experience itself. You see this all over the language people use to talk about tripping. Even the phrase "get the message and then hang up the phone," a pretty laudable sentiment, is Ba problem in that there is assumed to be a "message" coming from drugs, which is silly. There is no message. At best, there is a sort of "lens" through which things are perceived that is different from the ordinary one. Integrating the experience requires a comparison between the two "images," not preferring the psychedelic one to the quotidian one. Down the latter path lies madness.
That's a nice appraisal of the epistemological situation. If knowledge and insight were as simple as taking a drug, everyone would be lining up. We want meaning so bad, and experiences which are personally meaningful are often misinterpreted as having broader significance. I really dislike the "hang up the phone" sentiment though. There is no destination, life is a process, if something helps you in that process then it doesn't make sense to abandon it.

For me one of the real values in psychedelics is the aftereffects. There's an antidepressant quality that will last for a week or longer. The things which are interesting to me become more interesting, I have a greater capacity to take in information, everything I do feels unforced and effortless, and my mood is just overall better. It's not a panacea, but it's a very real effect. Mostly I think this is a result of the molecular pathways activated, rather than the experience itself, although I'm sure the experience can be a catalyst in many cases. This aftereffect is far superior to that of dissociatives, which give me motivation but also scramble my working memory and cauterize me emotionally in the weeks that follow.
 
I will always maintain that psychedelics (my first trip most particularly, 90% of it was that) opened my eyes from a single layer of being and revealed something far greater about the nature of existence. The experience was simply too real and profound for me to believe otherwise. It answered the "big question" for me, namely, what is life, what is this thing, why do we exist, who are we? I used to proselytize about it, but now I am fully aware I could be wrong and it could just be a beautiful illusion. But if so, I'm still glad for it, because it increases my level of satisfaction with life, and helps me keep things in perspective. It is the meaning for me, even if that meaning is that we create our own meaning.

But apart from that, I can clearly see how, in 2006-2008, my hammering of my receptors over and over led to delusional states and became pure escapism, no matter how I cloaked it. I once felt the same way about weed; I felt that I thought better and was smarter on it. Same with psychedelics, for a time. It wasn't true, particularly when I was doing it all the time. Now I will say that during that period of time I was masking a bad relationship, and those 2-3 years were the happiest I had post-college, up until I got out of that relationship. Ultimately it didn't really do me lasting harm and was fun and helped me to feel more connected to the world. Psychedelics can have a pretty powerful antidepressant effect, and I see no problem with using them that way, as long as you're honest with yourself.

Nowdays, I still use psychedelics to help me feel more connected to the world, and to help shake me up. It's not that the effects of psychedelics magically improve me, it's that, as others mentioned, they provide a lens by which your way of seeing things temporarily shifts. This change in perspective helps to disrupt the default mode network, and helps to keep life feeling interesting. I find myself stopping to smell the roses, so to speak, much more often and more profoundly. I might stop and stare at the vein structure on a leaf for 10 minutes, dead sober, and for the next hour my thoughts turn to the significance of that leaf, and the wonder of evolution, the majesty of the universe. These perspective shifts help me to stay in touch with my sense of purpose and innate childlike sense of wonder. These are effects that are eminently clear to me, which I could probably maintain indefinitely without psychedelics at this point (at the moment the last time I tripped was before Christmas, which is the longest in a while), but which I still find psychedelics to be useful for.

Another thing is that I find low doses of psychedelics more useful now than large doses. I've already demolished my ego enough, the subtle altering effects are more in line with my purposes now, and also are much less taxing. Once in a while if something in particular is bothering me and I am stuck on it, I will take a larger dose with the intention of thinking about the issue, and the perspective shift often helps me to kick myself out of my rut.

In short, I still feel that psychedelics are useful and valuable to me, but my relationship with them has changed, for the better, IMO.
 
When you smoke with my crew there is no tapping out.
That's harsh man. The older I get the more perturbed I become when people try to peer pressure me into OD territory with weed. I only need a few tokes and I'm good these days, others have a habit and smoke all day. That's their lifestyle choice, I have mine. I ain't no bitch, I used to smoke blunt after blunt when I was young... but I don't feel young anymore and I don't like that 'high' anymore.
 
I installed a Windows 10 update this morning and it hosed my Internet, but I could still see network connections and get email through my work network. I tried everything, Microsoft had various issues and solutions documented from this update but this was not one of them. Everything I tried that people suggested did nothing. I just finished doing a network reset to factory settings. That seemed to work, crossing my fingers it isn't fucked after a little bit as some other things I tried got it to work for a brief time (this would be the longest so far though). I keep getting a "missing DLL file" notification every time I restart. So annoying.
Fuckin' Windows 10... I could run my r7 250 on a 4k telly with Win 7. As soon as I switched to Win 10 and built a better setup the GPU started freaking out HARD. I blame Windows 10 for being graphically demanding for no good damn reason.
 
I installed a Windows 10 update this morning and it hosed my Internet, but I could still see network connections and get email through my work network. I tried everything, Microsoft had various issues and solutions documented from this update but this was not one of them. Everything I tried that people suggested did nothing. I just finished doing a network reset to factory settings. That seemed to work, crossing my fingers it isn't fucked after a little bit as some other things I tried got it to work for a brief time (this would be the longest so far though). I keep getting a "missing DLL file" notification every time I restart. So annoying.
Linux man :) I swear my productivity has increased two fold, so fast, so slick, so organized, got everything customized to my liking. I will never go back, and I'm only rocking a very standard Ubuntu.

Related:
 
I haven't smoked weed in like 4 months. I'm just bored of it? I say I have permatolerance, but it's not that, I get really high easily. I just don't bother to buy it, I'm so lazy that the act of going to ATM to get some cash feels sometimes too much to not even bother buying drugs.

Now, since I met this girl. I've been using more drugs and drinking more than in the past year or two. What does that tell about me? I'm like the happiest I've been in years, if ever, but still I have to get fucked up every day we don't see each other. With her I'm always sober, and she has no idea. I don't even feel hungover or any withdrawal when I'm with her.

 
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I installed a Windows 10 update this morning and it hosed my Internet, but I could still see network connections and get email through my work network. I tried everything, Microsoft had various issues and solutions documented from this update but this was not one of them. Everything I tried that people suggested did nothing. I just finished doing a network reset to factory settings. That seemed to work, crossing my fingers it isn't fucked after a little bit as some other things I tried got it to work for a brief time (this would be the longest so far though). I keep getting a "missing DLL file" notification every time I restart. So annoying.

You run Windows as your daily driver even though you do dev work, Xorkoth? Why not use Linux? Or even run virtualization so that you have both?
 
I agree with this sentiment. I've taken to calling the psychedelic headspace one of "hyper-significance" or "hyper-relevance"
Exactly. If you'll indulge me quoting a post of my own from a number of years ago...
The state of mind in which you are now may present as pleasurable and about enlightenment and connection with the universe, this is utter bullshit. I often have spoken methaphorically of the "salience receptor" in the brain, which has something to do mostly with serotonin but isn't exactly quantified, but has to do with, this experience I am having, it is like no other, it is transcendent to our day-today reality, I can imagine nothing in the world that compares ... this is incredibly dangerous. There is a fine line between a far out psychedelic experience and psychosis. It is harder to cross than the anti-drug brigade would have you believe but much closer than the druggies would try to convince you. Most of the people I know who've gotten deep into this corner of drug culture, mixed together with New Age theology, are absolute fucking lunatics who you would do well to avoid.

So yeah, please, take a step back, or two, and think to yourself, what would seem rational to an ordinary person? Forget an pretension that you are superior to the ordinary person, this is a manifestation of the very natural and pharmacoligically based mental state in which you have put yourself by the use of chemicals. Try to conceive things from your baseline. Is what i'm thinking, saying, doing in line with consensus reality or is it nuts? Most of the New Age stuff when coupled with drugs and the banal, sophomoric philosophy that tends to follow them, are of the latter category. But believe me, I've been there. I've done my share of drugs, more than my share. And it is all bullshit. It's nothing more than a bunch of hippies getting stoned. Bits and pieces of it is therapeutic, yeah, but only in the right context. All those feelings of immanent transcendance and connection with the world and all it's inhabitants, that's an intrinsic pharmacological effect of the substances in question just as much as painkilling is an effect of aspirin. Don't take it too serious. Therein lies the path of delusion.
Also, Linux fuck yeah.
 
You run Windows as your daily driver even though you do dev work, Xorkoth? Why not use Linux? Or even run virtualization so that you have both?

I'd use Linux, but my work requires Windows. I do have another computer but I always use this one, the other one is just for watching stiff, really. And my girl uses it for her stuff sometimes, and she's not very computer-savvy.

I do dev stuff but it's not like, a tech company. There are only a few programmers, I doubt half the people even know what Linux is, lol.
 
Fuckin' Windows 10... I could run my r7 250 on a 4k telly with Win 7. As soon as I switched to Win 10 and built a better setup the GPU started freaking out HARD. I blame Windows 10 for being graphically demanding for no good damn reason.

That's the AMD drivers, not Windows 10. They want you to buy a new one.
 
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