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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Cheshire_Kat

Opioids - first time - Fun

Well, my tolerance seems to have hit a ceiling, I snorted 5 dillies tonight and it had only minor effects. It still helps the pain and I get the opiate buzz, but it's very subtle.

Basically, I've reached a point where no matter what I do or how much I take, I'm just too tolerant to get a strong buzz. The only options now are to either start IV (which I am not going to do) or just accept the fact that the only way I am going to enjoy a buzz again is to START USING THEM LESS.

Based on previous experience, if I wait a few days and try again, my tolerance will dip enough to let me enjoy the next fix. I mean if I'm not getting a buzz, there is very little point to continuing these mass quantities I've been taking. It's a waste of drugs and all it's going to do is polute my body with no upside!

I guess I'll have to taper off back to saving them for the weekends or special ocassions.

Of course, I could try other avenues to get my buzz. I'm more than happy to put the opiates aside and I don't see myself having any opiate withdrawl as long as I can get a buzz some other way.

Does opiate tolerance affect kratom?

Anyone out there have any suggestions of what someone who is now tolerant of opiates could try to enjoy? I've tried DMX a few times, was kinda nice...

I could ask the doc to perscribe me some Lyrica, since everyone says it's much better for nerve pain anyway.
 
Hey john!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Guess what Santa got you this year?

A full blown opiate addiction! yay!!!

Have fun pissing out of your ass, sweating in freezing conditions and wishing you were dead and not being able move or live another single day of your life without craving that feeling again!


woohoo!
 
John Burrows said:
Of course, I could try other avenues to get my buzz. I'm more than happy to put the opiates aside and I don't see myself having any opiate withdrawl as long as I can get a buzz some other way.
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If only that were true. We'd all just move on to something else. No one wants to be addicted to opiates but opiates are the only way to stop the withdrawal. And the physical withdrawal is the easy part (although it's really hard). The hard part is craving them every fucking day for the rest of your life... you can't forget.

And yes, opiate tolerance affects kratom. It's unlikely you could get very high from it.

See you in The Dark Side in a few months. I hope you prove me wrong. But it's hard to imagine at this point that you will. Maybe you're just different from everyone else. Go back and re-read my long posts because I'd say the same to you again but I don't have time to repeat myself.

:\
 
John_Burrows said:
Well, my tolerance seems to have hit a ceiling, I snorted 5 dillies tonight and it had only minor effects. It still helps the pain and I get the opiate buzz, but it's very subtle.

Basically, I've reached a point where no matter what I do or how much I take, I'm just too tolerant to get a strong buzz. The only options now are to either start IV (which I am not going to do) or just accept the fact that the only way I am going to enjoy a buzz again is to START USING THEM LESS.
Click to expand...

Yes, tolerance builds to opiates at those dosages very quickly. Your doctor should have informed you of this. There is no ceiling, you will continue to take more until the physical withdrawl is too painful between 'fixes' or your doctor CUTS YOU OFF. Imagine that if only for a second, however unrealistic it may be. Your doctor may decide YOU'VE HAD ENOUGH. And then it's gonna HURT.

What this means for you? YOU must realize that your 'pain-killers' DO take the pain away, no one will argue. But between your 2 doses of dope, your body will be withdrawing, and you will be really pissed off. It will affect your life in a very unpleasant way. Take heed.
 
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Xorkoth said:
The hard part is craving them every fucking day for the rest of your life... you can't forget.
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NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER FORGET.

It is constantly on my mind 24/7 when im sad, when im happy.

Every second, i think of that feeling....:(
 
So what happens now? My life magically goes to shit? I don't feel any different. I'm not angry or in despair that my pills don't get me very high anymore. Overall, my mental state is no different than it was 6 weeks ago when all this started (that's all it's been).

My day goes by and I don't huger or crave for night to come so I can take my pills. And now that the pills hardly work, it's like a minor disappointment.

I mean look, for me to believe that I'm going to be in agony over no longer feeling that opiate buzz anymore, I have to think it would have been something I REALLY REALLY loved when I was doing it - something I couldn't imagine living without. Sure, it was nice, and maybe 4 or 5 times I had a REALLY glowing buzz, but, like I said, it's not anything so special I was even looking forward to all day. Nor was I ever tempted to take any pills more than once a day.

So I just don't see what I'll be chasing or regretting or cursing for the rest of my life. It's not like I had a chocolate shake that was above and beyond anything I tasted before in my life and I'll be searching for the exact recipie again forever. Maybe the difference is I never IVd, or because of my natural tolerance MY best high was nowhere near as special as YOUR best high.

My best nights on E were far superior to anything these opiate pills gave me.

So what are all of you saying? If I stop taking them now my body is going to rebel and all hell will break lose? If my body is going to crave it, ok then, I'll taper them off. Instead of 4 or 6 a night, I'll take 3, then 2, then 1 and then every other day. That's how you deal with addiciton, right? They won't be getting me high, so if I have to take them to slowly allow my body to let go, so be it.

But if the worst part is never being able to get an opiate high again, I can live with that because all it ever gave me was a mild, nice warmth that helped me deal with shit. Key word being MILD.

And Enyay, WTF? It's sad that someone else seems happy over another person's problems. You know what, I just typed out this huge, scathing commentary that probably would have made you cry, but I just erased it. Clearly you have far worse problems that I do if you get your jollies over saying "I told you so" and watching someone else spiral down. And don't even try and backpedal and make some lame attempt to explain or justify anything, that last post of yours said it all.

Ok,well, like some of you have said, I hope you're wrong. I just don't see the brick wall I'm heading for.
 
I'm so glad that John has chosen to record all this for posterity on an Internet site.

One day, about two years into the future, he's going to 'hit bottom' and remember his thread on Bluelight. He'll come back here, read all the posts, be ashamed of himself, and wish to God that he'd listened to every single person on here.

The sad part is that it won't do him any good.

You really can't tell anyone anything. They have to discover it for themselves. Ah well. Enjoy this time while it lasts John... I say you've got about three or four months of it before you start wishing you could stop, but discover you can't.

So make the most of these halcyon days champ ;D
 
Sometimes opiates, and lots of them, really ARE the only solution to severe, unrelenting pain. If they also cause euphoria and a "high" in the user, is that the user's fault? If you're taking them because you hurt, but also look forward to the mental effects, that's not because you're a drug addict, but because that's the nature of opiates: they stop pain and make you feel good, and (as of now) there's no way to separate the two.

Where I draw the line in this situation on defending the user as a 100% legit pain patient with no addict tendencies is that he's choosing to snort and "plug" his medication, which is meant to be taken by mouth. That's not a good sign. I don't know many non-recreational pain patients who snort their meds. I'm sure snorting my Prozac would make it work faster, too, but that's not how it's meant to be taken so I don't do it.

There's no way to say whether someone who starts out as a pain patient will become an addict, but opiates have a way of tricking your body into hurting MORE than before when you quit taking them (see Jeff Conaway on Celebrity Rehab), thus leading you to continue your use while justifying it with "but I'm in pain." And that's the truth, you really ARE in pain after quitting, but part of it is just the withdrawal making it so intense. Many pain patients don't understand this phenomenon and end up hooked. The longer you take it, the worse the pain will be when you stop, and that goes for recreational users, too. If I take opiates for days on end and then stop, I get pain, even though I didn't start out with pain, so imagine how bad withdrawal will be if you had pain to begin with...
 
A few months? My pills will run out WAY before then, so it won't take long to see how bad I'm doing. I really think a lot of people are blowing this situation way out of proportion.

I've been taking 20-30mg of dilaudid daily for about 6 weeks now. I'm not upping my dosage to get higher, I'm not jonseing for my next fix, nor am I contemplating how to get more pills when they run out. When my stash does start to run low, I'm going to taper down my dosage which will hopefully diminish or eliminate withdrawl.

I just don't see how I'm at the edge of hell!

If the worst happens and my body begins to freak out because I'm not taking pills anymore, ok, I'll just deal. I'll eat ice cream and download a lot of porn. Since my dosages now are not all that high (and let's remember, folks, I'm over 6 foot tall and 200 pounds, so this is NOT a massive amount of drugs for a guy like me), I just don't see how any withdrawl symptoms are going to be that bad.

Unless withdrawl symptoms are generally disproportionate, but I don't think that's the case. From what I gather, if you're getting REALLY high VERY often, then yes, you're going to SINK really far.

But I'm just not.
 
Bra, why are you so focused on this "well, I'm not getting high, so I'm not going to go into withdrawals"??? It is a wrong way of thinking. It's simply WRONG. Your body has gotten used to taking opiates for the past 6 weeks on a daily basis, if you stop taking them right now, do you honestly believe that you will still feel "OK"? You aren't fully understanding somethings for some reason. Something isn't clicking I can tell you aren't acting lol. I would stop plugging and snorting if I were you and start your weaning off process and prepare your body for what it's about to have to adjust to, and that's no opiates.

-Sp33dy
 
Yes, every day for 6 weeks, like my doctor told me to. I'm not ignoring what's happening and I know I could be in for a tough time, but my instincts tell me it's going to be fine.

I mean, I always go 24 hours in between hits and when the time comes I don't feel anxious or overly eager to take the pills. I just enjoy it.

Tonight I started lowering my dosage. Monday I go to the doc for a follow up and to decide what the next step should be as far as my pain goes. I'll probably ask for more dillies so I have enough to get me through the slow reduction in dosage i'll need to minimize withdrawl.

Is there anything else I should do other than slowly reduce the dosage day by day?
 
ask for more? don't you have like several hundred still sitting around?

to slowly reduce withdrawals and symptoms, start taking it as directed. switch over from plugging/snorting to oral. this will help ease you back down. although, if you can, stick with the only nightly dosing. hydromorphone is really short acting, so if you were to have significant withdrawals, you'd already be feeling them after 24 hours.
 
Well that's good to know, because as I said, I only take them once a day, at night... so it's always 24 hours in between doses. And I don't feel anything differnent at that 24 hour mark.
 
Ok, so today, Friday the 2nd, is my first day without any opiates since all this began, about 7 weeks ago.

So far so good, no withdrawls that I can detect. Of course, I took a shitload of DXM just to try something different, but still - no dillies!

And I picked up my last perscription for 150 of 'em today. How's THAT for self-control? Seriously, the dillies were just not having much of an effect anymore, so it had become kind of pointless to take them. Not to mention a waste of pills.

We'll see how I'm feeling tomorrow. I've never done this much DXM before (took maybe 200mg) and it's starting to kick in. Typing is tough. At least it will keep me distracted from my dillies!
 
John_Burrows said:
My best nights on E were far superior to anything these opiate pills gave me.
Click to expand...

The weird thing about opiate addiction is that the high isn't really that big of a deal to users... but the lack of that high is a big deal. Psychedelics have provided all of my best experiences by a longshot. Marijuana has provided better experience in the early days. But I am not addicted to either of them. Even though opiates hardly get me high anymore, I still feel compulsed to take them all the time. And when I'm on them/not withdrawing, it seems so easy to say that I will stopm doing them, that it will be the last time, and so forth. But then about 12 hours since the last dose hits and I'm doing whatever I can to take some again.

So what are all of you saying? If I stop taking them now my body is going to rebel and all hell will break lose? If my body is going to crave it, ok then, I'll taper them off. Instead of 4 or 6 a night, I'll take 3, then 2, then 1 and then every other day. That's how you deal with addiciton, right? They won't be getting me high, so if I have to take them to slowly allow my body to let go, so be it.

But if the worst part is never being able to get an opiate high again, I can live with that because all it ever gave me was a mild, nice warmth that helped me deal with shit. Key word being MILD.
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Well, you've been taking them every day, so of course it seems easy to stop. Like I said, the real difficulty comes in when you run out. I sure never saw that coming... I felt like everything was under control. Until I ran out. And then the very hardest part comes after the short period of withdrawal is over. It's called PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome)... look it up.

Ok,well, like some of you have said, I hope you're wrong. I just don't see the brick wall I'm heading for.
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Exactly. Man, it's just that we've all been there and to us, it's like looking in a mirror from years past. Maybe you're not heading for that brick wall, but the things you're saying sound exactly like the things I said to myself when I was where you are (different opiates but same patterns). And even though it doesn't seem to be doing any good, it's hard not to keep trying to get through to you because if we could get through to a single person, it would save that person many years if not a lifetime of pain and hardship.

Again, maybe you're a lucky one, who really is going to escape the clutches of opiate addiction despite 6 weeks or so of daily use. It just doesn't sound like it.
 
Well I do agree I have to be careful and make sure I give myself plenty of time to quit BEFORE I run out. I got my last script filled, so I think I have about 300 on hand. More than enough.

I did skip a day to play with DXM. I've been trying to detect withdrawl symptoms but I still seem to be ok. The day after my DXM trip it had been 48 hours since I hit the dillies and I wasn't madly craving them. Still, skipping a day made them work a little better.

Today was an interesting day. I woke up VERY much on edge. Because of a whole lot of things (being laid off, no gf, lack of friends, etc), I've been way depressed and nervous about where my life is going. I had promised myself that today, Jan 5th, I'd stop messing around and be more proactive. The holidays are over and I really have to get in gear and start doing some work.

Well, when I woke up at 1pm, it was time to either get up and make something of the day or hide under the covers as I had done for so much of the last month. I felt like the weight of the world was on top of me, and I desperately wanted to just say "fuck it" and go back to sleep. But, practically shaking with anxiety, I dragged myself out of bed and got to it.

Showered, shaved, made a business appointment for Tuesday, and went on to have a VERY productive day. Did some work, went to the gym, paid all my bills really took care of shit. When I got home and night was upon us, I felt SO MUCH BETTER, and none of it had anything to do with the drugs.

If I was truly going to succumb to withdrawl, today would have been the day. NO WAY would things have gotten better as the day went on. I would have been SCREAMING for my fix.

As it was, when it got to be "about that time," sure, I snorted a few dillies, but it was more out of habbit than a huge need. And (sigh), it didn't really do all that much for me. Actually, last night I looked up an FAQ on how to snort properly, and it turned out I hadn't been doing it quite right, so tonight I was looking forward to trying it correctly for the first time and hoping it would ht me harder.

No dice.

Oh well. If anything, I have to work at skipping more days so the days I *do* partake it actually works on me.

One thing I have noticed, is the days when I really feel like I can take it or leave it - the days I am most likely to succeed at skipping the opium - are the days I manage to "get high off life."

Silly, but it's true.
 
Lady Codone said:
I'm sure snorting my Prozac would make it work faster, too, but that's not how it's meant to be taken so I don't do it.
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I've done it, they put something in there so you can't snort it, it hurt worse than anything else snorted, my nose was completely fucked, so much so I had to be sent home from work!! It took days for it to come right.
 
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