Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

[Eveleivibe]

yeah if the habit goes too long though its like you 'forget how to live' without opis. Its been about 2 years on them for me, and i now feel quite paranoid and defensive whenever im out and about without them. Its only been 9 days though, i guess i need to get more used to 'circulating' without opis, and will gradually get a better perespective and attitude back, hopefully. Before anyone has a go at me for being soft and whinging, I am just stating the facts of how things are. I am not seeking pity or to be propped up by anyone.

I want to thank amanatindine for his warnings about kratom. I owe him a huge debt of gratitude. It was only thanks to him that i stopped the kratom within one month, and the w/ds were entirely managable at that stage. I fear it would be much worse if i had let the habit roll on for months and months. My dosage was escalating dayly. I made the mistake of ordering too much.

What are the warnings? Is it concerning withdrawals?

 

[Swarm]

My habit is getting out of hand, 60mgs of Morphine isn't even helping with WD. I'm at 120mg a day now, and it keeps climbing, higher and higher, and the sickness is getting worse every time.

I'm really feeling for ya mate is a horrible place to be. What worked for me in those situations (though my addiction was swung much more on the bezo side, with a lot less of the opiates - more the lighter ones like the trammies, Ah 7921 etc) was to get a rotation system going. One day benzo, one day opiate - alternate it like that and you can really see some changes in as littles as 3 weeks.

Right now I got a reasonable system going. Got the AH -7921 down to 40 mg every couple of days. Not using it to get high, just the bare minimum. On the other days I been varying things around. 3 or 4 doses of mpa spaced out over the morning from about 8 to 2 in afternoon.( The first dose I take lying in bed and it relaxes the fuck out of me, sometimes even nod off). Then around 2pm I hit about 100mg of mxp, with maybe another 100mg around 6 pm. Being highly functional on it too getting all my uni work done. Mixing in a few benzo's too but being real careful as they are my true nemesis.

A key thing that a lot of people miss is that you shouldn't ever take the same class of drug two days running. You got to keep the receptors in your brain and the enzymes in the liver guessing. Those extra liver enzymes that need producing in order to give you an opiate tolerance are expensive for your body, energetically speaking, therefore your body won't make them unless it thinks it has to. Alternate and randomise and you'll stay one step ahead of your system. Its all statistics.

P.m me any time mate.

 

[knock]

What are the warnings? Is it concerning withdrawals?

yeah amanitadine was just telling us how kratom withdrawals are very nasty.

 

[broseph]

I'm on my fourth or fifth run in with heroin. First one lasted a year, and was a disaster right from the beginning. Went to detox, got clean using their subutext/benzo cocktail over the span of four days. After a few yet I got back from into it for brief period s spanning over three to six months. Both times getting clean in county jail. Now I'm at it again. Amdcthis time my habit is at it's highest, and my willpower at it's lowest. Sa

I went three days without any opiates, Using a large amount of stimulants, and a package of kratom purchased at the local head shop. The kratom worked for a very short amount of time. And at the end of m third day, I gave in, and scored a dime(just enough for one hit). And now I'm dreading what's to come, especially since my only support system now feels betrayed. I just made things so much worse on myself. But I thought about giving the loperamide a shot. Now I can find it at the grocery store, correct? And how much will I be taking?

 

[steewith2ees]

I'm on my fourth or fifth run in with heroin. First one lasted a year, and was a disaster right from the beginning. Went to detox, got clean using their subutext/benzo cocktail over the span of four days. After a few yet I got back from into it for brief period s spanning over three to six months. Both times getting clean in county jail. Now I'm at it again. Amdcthis time my habit is at it's highest, and my willpower at it's lowest. Sa

I went three days without any opiates, Using a large amount of stimulants, and a package of kratom purchased at the local head shop. The kratom worked for a very short amount of time. And at the end of m third day, I gave in, and scored a dime(just enough for one hit). And now I'm dreading what's to come, especially since my only support system now feels betrayed. I just made things so much worse on myself. But I thought about giving the loperamide a shot. Now I can find it at the grocery store, correct? And how much will I be taking?

Loperamide helped me through my last cold turkey but it took tons of them. 24 tablets 1st day, dropping by 3 tablets every 24 hours. It didnt get rid of all the symptoms but it did make things manageable - im wondering if it dragged things out a bit longer than it needed to. When I go straight CT im normally feeling physically better by the 5th day but with the lope it was a good 10 days before I started to come around. I was topping up with the occasional CWE tho so that probably didnt help.

Im going for my last attempt at a diy taper this week before I have my first assessment with a drug service on friday - im expecting a gram of ah - 7921 tommorrow. i Hope it turns up im down to my last 20 quid for the week

 

[Acidtek]

I definitely think that the CWE's may have dragged things out a bit

I am on day 57 without heroin, i am currently taking 2mgs of subutex a day and it is just about holding me, i am smoking a little bit of weed at the moment because it seems to help me get by and give me some temporary release from the shit feelings and cravings, this is the longest i have been without gear for about 5 years, everyday is a struggle but it is getting easier, when i am at my worst i just lock myself away and find something i am interested in to watch for a bit of distraction... The hardest part for me is finding a new social circle, people that i can feel comfortable around, hard for me at the best of times, i can't remember who i am without heroin, know it sounds a bit sad, but i know who i am as an addict, it has been part of my identity for so long

 

[Swarm]

The hardest part for me is finding a new social circle, people that i can feel comfortable around, hard for me at the best of times, i can't remember who i am without heroin, know it sounds a bit sad, but i know who i am as an addict, it has been part of my identity for so long

Totally empathise with that, not specifically with heroin, but with drugs in general. After heavy daily usage for ten years straight, when i kicked everything i couldn't even really hold a conversation - well that's not true, but more the little things like small talk with the neighbour down stairs or whatever, i was just lost for words, i didn't know what to say. It sounds stupid but drugs was all i knew and i just didn't know how to do the whole "life" thing. Even my first few sober posts on BL just felt so weird and strained. It was like turning up for five a side and seeing john terry and steven gerrard there with bibs and astro turfers on instead of my mates. Life seemed to be a reasonable semblence of what it was like before but all twisted and weird, and empty, and so stupidly fucking hard even to do the simplest things. Long term heavy drug use is no fucking joke man. Not that anyone here doesn't already know that, but i just wanted to say i feel you man. its fucking hard.

 

[Swarm]

But I thought about giving the loperamide a shot. Now I can find it at the grocery store, correct? And how much will I be taking?

yeah you get em anywhere, cheap as chips. Pop as many as required others can advise better than me, my withdrawals being more from the AH 7921, so the shits is a lot less severe. One thing i find that really helps is Psyllium Husks. I suffer from ibs anyway so the opiate withdrawals hit me hard even with it just being the AH 7921. You can get a kilo of them off ebay real cheap. Just mix a couple of heaped tea spoon fulls in with some juice or squash about 5 times a day and they work wonders. They are a form of soluble fibre so they soak up loads of moisture from the gut giving you a stool sample that atleast has a semblence of normality to it. Incidently soluble fibre is one of two types, the other being insoluble - the stuff that's in weatabix, which is a huge no no as this irritates the stomache lining. Pure soluble fibre is also the stuff they put in "fridge milkshakes" to make it thick and gooey without adding any calories or using fat to thicken it up. Soluble fibre is soft and absorbs moisture which helps give bulky stools, and can really help as it gives the opiate withdrawing gut that's on overdrive somthing thicker and sunstantial to fill the space.

 

[amanitadine]

Broseph- my heart goes out to you :/ It does get worse every time, by an order of magnitude. Quit while you can! By the time you are at round 50 or 5000 you often just don't have it in you....but for me that is what it took, fortunately or unfortunately...

Loperamide does work quite well.....varies quite a bit from person to person. Eat em all at once, like 80mg worked for me on a dope habit....the first day or two is rough, but nothing like CT. It takes a while to build up in your system and do its business ....take em on an empty stomach, chew em up.....some people say wait until your sick and others say get in before ....I found it to work better once I was getting pretty clucky....a more distinguishable difference in demeanor that way!

take it the bare minimum amount of time....all accounts point to a high dose long term loperamide habit to be amongst the worst of the worst.....it is no joke! A few have died, and it can have some nasty effects on the heart, prolonged QT interval and ventricular tachychardia, as well as a potential LPP+ neurotoxic metabolite....

Good luck man, hang in there....it gets better

 

[Sprout]

This is it. I'm finally quitting. I can't do it anymore, and I sure as fucking Hell don't want to.
74 hours clean, cold turkey - I don't have the self-control to taper, nor use a "lesser opiate" sparingly to get over the worst of it.
I know how addictive my personality is so even Lope would be a stupid idea.
I will do this, I can't fail, I won't let myself fail.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Without wishing to sound corny, That's the spirit !

You have the belief and the determination, that's what it's all about. From what i gather you are coming off stronger/harder opis than what i was using, but in my own case i found that the fear of going through w/ds was far worse than they actually turned out to be. The physical stuff requires stamina. It was the psychological side that i was more worried about, i didnt know how low my mood would drop, or how long for. As it turned out i only had a few wobbly days, and after 11 days i started to feel really good WITHOUT opis. I was fucking amazed.

You dont have to take enough Lope to get addicted to it, but i really would reccomend getting a couple of packs in. Your bowells are probably going to be very unsettled for a few days, and if you get really severe diarrhea then you could get dehydrated and loose all your bodies eloctrolytes and you'll feel far worse than you need to. Also i dont think your body is absorbing nutrients properly when you have a bad stomach either. You wont need to keep running to the bog every half hour. Seriously you dont need to make it any worse than it needs to be. If you just buy 2 packs of lope, (5 x 2mg pills are in one pack) Id suggest to take 3 on day 1, and then 2 on successive days until they run out. About a week on the lope should see you through. Its only people taking like 40 lope pills or something that are in danger of becoming addicted imo.

Good luck though, w/e you decide. Stay strong.

Also, if you smoke cigarettes, you will find that quitting them, at least until you get through the acute physical w/ds it will make you feel much more physically resilient. It makes an amazing amount of difference to the physical side of things.

Flu remedy drinks and vitamin pills help aswell.

 

[maxalfie]

This is it. I'm finally quitting. I can't do it anymore, and I sure as fucking Hell don't want to.
74 hours clean, cold turkey - I don't have the self-control to taper, nor use a "lesser opiate" sparingly to get over the worst of it.
I know how addictive my personality is so even Lope would be a stupid idea.
I will do this, I can't fail, I won't let myself fail.

Good on you Sprout man.Try and keep up the level of determination that you are feeling now. I know it gets difficult to stay determined when you are withdrawing but if you want it bad enough then it is do-able.
All the best Sprout.

 

[amanitadine]

Good luck sprout....just keep that attitude. The only way out is through! I second MDB's suggestion of at least some loperamide....you don't have to do huge doses. Small amounts will make it much more tolerable, prevent dangerous dehydration, and not prolong the whole affair. I highly recommend such.

On a second note, coming from my recent experience, Ibogaine is the be all end all for opioid addiction and withdrawal. As well as the be all end all for psychedelics! Nothing to do on a whim...takes some serious prep and research, and a huge wad of cash even for self administration....but my brain actually feels like it did pre opioids, 20 years ago, and I suffered no real withdrawal...and had one of the, if not the, most amazing trips of my life. And it's legal for you guys in the UK. Costs about $500 for enough material however, and you need a sitter for 3-5 days. Nothing short of miraculous..

 

[Sprout]

Cheers for the support guys, will address you individually later but short on time.
I'm at 97 hours now and the real, debilitating bits only started around 6pm yesterday, it was as though I could feel the last bits of opiates in my system drain away within an hour. Fucking Poppy Seed Tea eh? Anyone who thinks it's a "weak" opiate concoction is wrong. If I just stuck to pure morphine I'd be just about over the worst, but this is so fucking drawn out it's untrue. Plus, I think the thebaine has a WD profile all of its own.

Today will be my first trip outside since my last dose (monday 12pm) so we'll see how the anxiety goes. Psychologically, this is a little easier than last time, I've only had a few, less than an hour long, bouts of depression. It was probably not a good idea to CT on the alcohol at the same time either, but I was only using 10-15 units a day so the shakes are rather mild, the twitches are pretty funky though, to say the least.

Good luck to anyone else in this situation!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

RE: the leaving the house thing. I found just doing small things to start with and then gradually making them more challenging helped.

As sad and pathetic as it sounds i started off by first just going round the alleys to check the bins, then trips to the supermarket (first few times were uncomfortable), then walks round the park, then finally i was able to face the city centre. Its probably much easier for me though as im taking etizolam as well, i dont normally take any during the daytime, but i reckon the half life of the bedtime dose sees me through most of the following day anyway. If you're not allready taking benzos im certainly not recomending you start, but if you're allready using them they will help. But then you will probably want to give up benzos sooner or later, so will have to deal with that at some point too.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Thats the thing, i think once you prove to yourself that you can survive without opis, and that you can actually quit them, and that the whole world doesnt come crashing down, it makes a huge difference. Of course its possible to get re-addicted if you start using regularly again, but the knowing that its not that bad to stop lessens the fear of stopping and makes it much easier, i think, so far.

 

[ledionz]

What kills me is even after half a year clean I still get texts saying 'on' every morning. Loads of my mates sell and they wouldn't even talk about it if I'm there but the out of town vultures who sell their lines do it constantly even after me asking em not too. One lad has even 'acidently' dropped a ten at my feet on the way out my house when I wasn't Lookin twice when dropping white off.

 

[skill-it]

Hiya

Does anyone know if Clonidine is prescription only or the sort of thing the pharmacist can dispense?

I am 3 weeks clean and over the worst but cant stop sweating, literally like a tap and is driving me nuts, feel continually dirty, even shaved me armpits today and helped a little but not much

Any other suggestions?

Many thanks in advance!

Clonidine is prescription only in the U.S.

The sweating will go away eventually, but for some people it takes longer than others. You have it pretty bad. It is a result of having done an opiate for an extended period of time which messes with your basic brain chemistry. I don't have a good one for that besides sitting in front of a fan all the time.

Ok here it goes. I've been using heroin for over twenty yrs. There have been breaks due to imprisonment, and having gotten on methadone, and then getting off of that which I've done twice. The first time being 18 months on, and then two yrs with no opiates.
Second time ten months on, and then about 20 months clean. I've done the finest CW, tan h, brown h, BTH, grey, and several of the fent analogs that went around back in the day. They all suck coming off of them. Period. I know just about every medication, and tricks there are to getting over the worst, and many of the minor effects of wd. If anybody has questions please ask. Sorry I'm late to the show here I've been absent from all my online haunts for a while not that this was a place that I was ever really involved with even though I have mad respect for many people who do come around, as ell as being friends with several from other places out in the web, as well as here, and in person.

I will try to give some of my own combos for easing the wd while going cold turkey.

Just a pre-game idea: Whatever your daily habit at least try to cut down to half that for 2-3 days if at all possible as it will make a difference for most people. Many of the thing like this will depend on the persons mental state. Some will just make it through easier because of being mentally stronger. Best ay I can put it. Each person is different chemically as well as mentally so things will vary this is just the way it is.

Here are a list of things you will need for fourteen days to make the transition as smooth as possible without using more opiates.

1.4-5 daily vitamins each day for the first 8-10 days then 2-3 for the rest of the two weeks, but taking one a day every day for a month at least, but taking one a day all the time will help, and is good for you.
2.4 1200ug fish oil caps a day, and same as the daily vitas.
3.Depending on the person, but I would advise 30mgs the first 24 hrs, 20mg the second day, 16-15 the 3rd, 110-11 the 4th, 4-5 the 5th, and 2-3mg the 7th, then none the 8th of lorporimide. Again this will vary from person to person. I use this amount myself as I'm using other chemicals that make a huge difference as well.
4.vitamin c supp. for the first ten days, or so.
5.a benzo when needed for rls, and the full body twitching. Also they can be used to help sleep.
6.clonidine if you can get it.
7.trazadone can help if having trouble sleeping after the third day if you can get it. Melatonin can help as well.
8.pot can be a big help for people as well for many of the symptoms.
9.these last two are what I like two use as the keep the mental cravings away better then anything else. Kratom a bali works good, and MXE. When mixing the two together with a little weed I'm very comfortable, but getting the dosage down right can be tricky.

This is what I like to have for the most comfortable two week cold turkey without opiates. I call it the room temp turkey.

All of the other things mentioned help of course, and should be done on a regular. Baths, showers, move around lots mild cardio. Read at night for sure. Sex, or sexual release is good, but not five times a day as it will just drain you in a way that makes things harder on your system in the already hard matter of getting things back in order. One time a day, two tops works well for me.

Again everything will vary from person to person, but this is my basic program that works well for me.

Hope this helps, and like I said any questions please ask Ill check in every day more, or less trying to help if I can as we all need help with this one if we can get it as it's the cunt of all cunts when it comes to addiction of a substance IMHO.

Everybody have a good one, and try and stay strong!-Skill-it

 

[Shambles]

Clonidine is prescription only in the U.S.

Apologies for late response, but also prescription-only in the UK. Can be acquired more or less legally from online pharmacies but it depends on whether you know any trustworthy ones.

 

[Sprout]

How effective is Clonidine? I've read of it so many times but never given it a second thought. Would you consider it a vital WD tool, or more to ease the symptoms?