Moral Decay-I believe it is a matter of semantics. That insert you quoted can be interpreted in a couple of ways. If you take it literally I can see how you would reach your conclusion. But if you read it carefully if basically says that peeps with a previous dependence on opiates are at risk for tramadol bringing back dependence, including withdrawal symptoms. Precipitate is defined as "to throw headlong; hurl downward; bring on, hasten" and I read that statement as saying that tramadol will bring on physical dependence quickly in those with a history of opioid addiction. You see what I am saying? Tramadol is often used by those physically addicted to opiates to ease the pain of withdrawal, as I am sure you know. It wouldnt be used if it caused withdrawal to come faster or more severely. If you look at the chemical structure you will see it lacks any of the functional groups common in narcotic antagonists, namely the dreaded and magical allyl on the nitrogen. It just isnt a mu antagonist. I am not sure why you experienced the symptoms you did, but it definitely is idiosyncratic. Thanks for the discussion
cheers
I have used it ease withdrawal in the past and it worked fantastically. But in every previous case the timing worked out so that I took my last dose of opiates in the evening and then the next morning when I woke up due to sickness; I took tramadol to make it through the day. This was the first time that I took my morning dose and for fear of a lapse in pain management due to tramadols slow onset of analgesia; took tramadol when I would normally take my lunch time dose of standard opiates.
In every other case I was already sick when I took tramadol, in this case I was not sick yet, I was just being greedy and I paid the price. You can interpret that quote anyway you like, I didn't post it to validate myself, I posted it to show you that despite your's and the personal experiences of others it *IS* possible to cause early onset withdrawal. I know what I experienced whether you believe that it is possible or not, the fact is that it occurred, I was just mistaken about the pharmacology behind it.
I stated that Tramadol was an antagonist and I was partially correct in that it is, I was just mistaken on what it actually antagonizes and when I went back and looked at what I had been reading I realized and admitted that I misinterpreted it. Despite misreading the pamphlet in a search to explain my experience it still occurred. It is irresponsible to try and skew the meaning of the warning to fit your explanation because you are mistaken; I am able to admit when I am mistaken but it's clear you are not.
My goal was to inform others of the risk that despite the majority of people taking it with no ill effects it is possible with poor timing to induce early onset withdrawal by taking tramadol too soon after your last opiate dose or while still intoxicated. Semantics aside, it caused precipitated withdrawal in me and I don't want anyone else here to experience it because it is not pleasant and it was NOT idiosyncratic. I am certain there are other people here who had this negative effect with unfortunate timing and the wrong doses of both their regular opiates an a "rescue dose" of tramadol. It is only a matter of time before someone else comes along claiming they too experienced it and I am sure they will be disputed as well.
I am not going to further discuss this with you, but I will ask that others do your own research because I was certain I understood Tramadol; I made a mistake. Just like I can be wrong others can be wrong, so use what you read here as a starting point for your own research but I would not take it as printed scientific fact. And please don't just stop at what validates your statements or what you want to hear, be thorough in your research and be safe.
slowdive said:
I'm shocked tramadol caused withdrawal for you. That is very odd. I have heard it is a possible side-effect, though. I'm sorry you had to go through it. I bet you were pissed. I can understand why some people would believe tramadol is a agonist-antagonist at the mu, because of this rare side-effect. Tramadol's relative, ciramadol, does however act as an agonist-antagonist at the mu. Ciramadol has been tested in humans, but I believe it is not currently available anywhere in the world. I was surprised to find that tramadol has many relatives, most of them made by Grunenthal in the 1970s. One of them is even stronger than morphine, but has never been used in humans. Perhaps because it is so potent. It is called bromadol I believe? They recently made tapentadol and I read they are currently about to attempt to market faxeladol.
Hey man thanks for that, I too have been reading about tramadol related drugs. I was recently looking at drugs similar to tramadol, there is a drug called levorphanol that is supposedly the strength of between oxycodone and hydrocodone. Then there is Tapentadol; it is said to have comparative analgesia along the order of oxycodone but it is already approved by the FDA and a schedule II drug in the united states. There is also Levorphanol which is supposed to be around 6 times as potent as morphine; is a pure opioid agonist. And last but not least the one you mentioned: Bromadol (BDPC) it is supposedly and this is hard to imagine 10,000 times teh strength of morphine. That is no typo, i meant to type ten thousand times the strength of morphine. Imaging the overdose potential to that drug it is active at less than 3 micrograms. that is seeming a lot more dangerous than fentanyl.
(the higher seizures thereshold, the better)
