[Nootropics Subthread] Racetams

[Solipsis]

Blech, I hate when I accidentally use warm water to dissolve (suspend) and drink aniracetam, choline and creatine!

Say what do you think of aniracetam's smell? Mine smells like mint or anise, must be precursor impurity (anisoyl chloride)!

 

[Odd_nonposter]

So guys, apparently smoking and vaporizing piracetam is a thing now.

From Longecity: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/61181-smoked-piracetam-in-a-rolled-cigarette/

nyway, I just hand-rolled a cigarette (American Spirit, no filter) and 'laced' it with ~200 mg piracetam. I've done it three times now over the past week, to try and mitigate placebo effect (or other bias) from the first one before posting.

What motivated me to try was that it seemed as though any potential thermal decomposition wouldn't make anything very toxic (I'm a chemist, here), and the boiling point is under the combustion threshold for paper and tobacco (and in the same range as THC), yada yada. So I felt it might be a good experiment, and made more interesting because I couldn't find any reports of people having smoked it before.

I've not often felt much of an effect from piracetam, especially at the standard doses. I have felt an effect (clear mind, attentive, ability to notice quite a bit in my surroundings) albeit at very high doses (>10 g, usually ~20 g) and even then inconsistently.

This, however, was a very, VERY clear effect, distinct from the nicotine effect and a perfectly classic piracetam effect profile. I felt a cleared head and a strong alertness, the feeling that my vision was suddenly picking up quite a bit more than normal, and the desire to analyze anything in my path. This has happened each of the three times I've tried it, and when I say it's distinct, I don't exaggerate.

And on Reddit's /r/Nootropics sub:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/...ss_it_was_only_a_matter_of_time_some_guys_at/

Loading the vaporizer with a half gram of piracetam with a tobacco plug to stop it from falling out. Vaporizer is warming up. Will report back in 30m. edit: this is the vaporizer report 1: The effect seems to be profound. Like hyper awareness. I literally felt as if my eyes grew wider, to take in more of the peripheral information going on at the borders of my field of vision. It is almost overwhelming. There is a mild body high that goes along with it, but overall it's just a feeling of intense thoughtfulness. I want to study, or maybe play guitar. /report 1

Normally, I find this kind of stuff insane.
But.
For Science. Fuck it.
Loading vaporizer.
Will report back as well.
Edit: Alright. The vapour is really clear--hard to tell if it actually vaporized. Took first hit about 2 minutes ago. Tried to be very cautious and not take a lot. BUT definetly feeling the effects. Hyper awareness is the term Recall_Coordinator used and I completely agree. Sudden urge to stand and stretch every muscle. Eyes are also very wide--as if the brows are trying to pull back towards the back of my skull; actually a very pleasent sensation.
Edit 2: I felt comfortable enough with the first hit that I decided to take a much bigger second one. This really is something, guys. Of course one has no way to know the placebo effects here but here's what happened:
As soon as I exhaled, a wave of relaxation surged through my whole body. My posture changed, as well as breathing becoming slower and more controlled. It's hard to let my breath be automatic as I acutely become aware of it the moment it speeds up.
Something worth mentioning is that I have motor tics that flare with stress. For about 5 seconds after maybe 30 seconds of taking the second hit, I had a terrifying and nervous sensation that they were about to flare up; this anxiety has completely dissappreared now and one is having a very enjoyable experience listening to music.
Final report:
Whatever happened here, it felt great. The hyper awareness very subtly faded away while relaxation and focus slowly increased. I do not feel any strong desires to do anything--I actually rather feel like sitting still and just focusing on my breath as this leads to mild euphoria--so, in that respect, my experience differs from the user above.
Real final report: Music. Sounds brilliant. Music has not sounded this nice on amphetamines, psychedelics, or cannabis.

I'll probably try doing this with my mflb. I'll edit my comment afterward.
EDIT 1: It works. The piracetam turns into a liquid, though, which then hardens after taking the hit and sticks to the screen. I would advise against putting large amounts in an mflb, as the screen is very fragile. I cleaned mine out afterward by opening the lid and leaving it on.
My first impression is that this feels similar to ritalin. I only took three hits, but I definitely feel more energized. I also feel a slight stoning in my eyes similar to that of cannabis. I would attribute that to residue leftover in the mflb, but I just had it replaced a few days ago. I did vaporize some cannabis a few hours earlier, but the effects were no longer present at the time of ingestion. I suppose you could say it feels like it's returning.
I didn't notice how wide my eyes were until I looked in the mirror. In my opinion, it makes my face look more aesthetically pleasing, but I am concerned about what effect this is having on the muscles and nerves in my eyes.

Does anyone have anything to say about this?

 

[Solipsis]

Why aren't these "scientists" trying more potent racetams?

Also, please use the racetam subthread, it is there for a reason. Thanks!

 

[Sweetshare]

What about the effect of nootropics (eg piracetam and noopept) for bipolar affective disorder? Are there any contraindications for this?
I took noopept before and I thought he brought me to mild depression.

 

[johannes kreisler]

shit. I def see myself loading up the machine with half a gram of piracetam tomorrow morning. :D (sounds promising ... and also worrying)

btw: thew word "awareness" just caught my eye.
does anyone see the parallel of the ""nootropic state"" and buddhistic concepts? I clearly do...



edit: just smoked 500mg as intended. works. strange feeling, difficult to explain. but works for sure - seems like a good start into the day :D

edit2: it is moreish. and a hassle to vaporize...

 

[ZenPit]

I never really noticed too much of a smell from aniracetam. Next time I dose I'll bust open a capsule and see how it smells

 

[pharma-sutra]

Hey ZenPit, read about your experience and suggestion in regards to combining aniracetam and piracetam (and later on pramiracetam). What I like to know is what would you recommend dosage-wise for someone who is beginning on a nootropic stack?

p.s. A little background should help. I have ADD and social anxiety, thus sometimes dexedrine and lyrica may be thrown in the mix. However, my intention on doing a proper nootropic stack is to try and control my dependency on these medications. Given my circumstances, would you suggest using pramiracetam into the combo? Since it is considered to be much stronger. Or should I just choose either piracetam or pramiracetam?

And for choline donators, I'm think of Alpha GPC if I intend on using pramiracetam, if not I'll just use soy lecithin, huperzine A, or choline bitatrate for the aniracetam/piracetam combo. Or which other cholinergics would you suggest? I've read about ALCAR and r-ALA combo to be quite effective.In addition, omega-3s (fish oil) and green tea will be added to the stack.
In regards to l-theanine, would there be a significant amount from green tea extracts? or should I look for strictly isolated l-theanine. OR would drinking green tea daily be much more resourceful?

also to everyone else browsing this thread who is more knowledgeable in this area please feel free to contribute, any input is much appreciated

 

[THCified]

I'm really thrilled about what my experiences with piracetam will be.

I'm on a prolonged arylcyclohexylamine break now (even though i love that friggin' stuff) and have included some new supps to my bodybuilding regimen. Started taking piracetam (1200-3600mg/day) along with ginkgo, epigallocatechin gallate and omega-3's a few days ago.

I'll also supplement D aspartic acid soon and see if it has a positive impact on my workout/wellbeing.

Only thing i noticed till now is that i'm recovering unusually fast from my workouts and don't need much sleep atm, but that could be also attributed to me eating well-balanced, having enough rest and trying not to overexert myself.

 

[ZenPit]

Hey ZenPit, read about your experience and suggestion in regards to combining aniracetam and piracetam (and later on pramiracetam). What I like to know is what would you recommend dosage-wise for someone who is beginning on a nootropic stack?

p.s. A little background should help. I have ADD and social anxiety, thus sometimes dexedrine and lyrica may be thrown in the mix. However, my intention on doing a proper nootropic stack is to try and control my dependency on these medications. Given my circumstances, would you suggest using pramiracetam into the combo? Since it is considered to be much stronger. Or should I just choose either piracetam or pramiracetam?

And for choline donators, I'm think of Alpha GPC if I intend on using pramiracetam, if not I'll just use soy lecithin, huperzine A, or choline bitatrate for the aniracetam/piracetam combo. Or which other cholinergics would you suggest? I've read about ALCAR and r-ALA combo to be quite effective.In addition, omega-3s (fish oil) and green tea will be added to the stack.
In regards to l-theanine, would there be a significant amount from green tea extracts? or should I look for strictly isolated l-theanine. OR would drinking green tea daily be much more resourceful?

also to everyone else browsing this thread who is more knowledgeable in this area please feel free to contribute, any input is much appreciated

Hi Pharma-sutra! Dosage wise concerning starting out with a Piracetam and Aniracetam combo stack I would suggest taking around 1,600-2,400mg of Piracetam daily (two capsules in the morning prior to breakfast, and another again before lunch) with the Aniracetam I would suggest about 1,500-2,250mg taking one capsule after breakfast and another after lunch.

I would honestly wait to include the Pramiracetam after you have given the Pira-Ani stack a few weeks worth of trying. Pramiracetam is definitely a great inclusion however you are going to want to give yourself some time before including it simply because too much at the beginning can either cause brain-fog or drowsiness.

In regards to which choline you should take I would personally recommend CDP Choline as a starter, simply because it shows mechanisms of actions in regards to stimulating the Dopamine receptors which might be able to help you with your social anxiety (I too suffer from social anxiety, so CDP is definitely a great choline source until you add Pramiracetam which when you do, I would recommend going to Alpha-GPC).

I initially had started with getting my L-Theanine from green tea, however lately I've been taking Neuro Breeze - L-Theanine and it has a much more pronounced effectiveness than just the tea alone. I'd recommend going straight for a L-Theanine capsule or source since you'll be getting more L-Theanine from that as opposed to getting it from green/black tea.

If you have any more questions go ahead and ask mate hope this helps

 

[ZenPit]

I'm really thrilled about what my experiences with piracetam will be.

I'm on a prolonged arylcyclohexylamine break now (even though i love that friggin' stuff) and have included some new supps to my bodybuilding regimen. Started taking piracetam (1200-3600mg/day) along with ginkgo, epigallocatechin gallate and omega-3's a few days ago.

I'll also supplement D aspartic acid soon and see if it has a positive impact on my workout/wellbeing.

Only thing i noticed till now is that i'm recovering unusually fast from my workouts and don't need much sleep atm, but that could be also attributed to me eating well-balanced, having enough rest and trying not to overexert myself.

Talking about L-Theanine and seeing your stack makes me want to mention that L-Theanine stimulates the GABA similarly to Piracetam. So it might be effective in including into your pre-workout stack considering GABA effects muscle tone.

 

[cryptix420]

Blech, I hate when I accidentally use warm water to dissolve (suspend) and drink aniracetam, choline and creatine!

Say what do you think of aniracetam's smell? Mine smells like mint or anise, must be precursor impurity (anisoyl chloride)!

No anitacetam I have ever taken has had any kind of smell.

 

[Morkin]

No noticeable changes since the 19th. Had upped the dose to 2400mg Piracetam & 1800mg Anitacetam a week ago.

 

[pharma-sutra]

Hi Pharma-sutra! Dosage wise concerning starting out with a Piracetam and Aniracetam combo stack I would suggest taking around 1,600-2,400mg of Piracetam daily (two capsules in the morning prior to breakfast, and another again before lunch) with the Aniracetam I would suggest about 1,500-2,250mg taking one capsule after breakfast and another after lunch.

I would honestly wait to include the Pramiracetam after you have given the Pira-Ani stack a few weeks worth of trying. Pramiracetam is definitely a great inclusion however you are going to want to give yourself some time before including it simply because too much at the beginning can either cause brain-fog or drowsiness.

In regards to which choline you should take I would personally recommend CDP Choline as a starter, simply because it shows mechanisms of actions in regards to stimulating the Dopamine receptors which might be able to help you with your social anxiety (I too suffer from social anxiety, so CDP is definitely a great choline source until you add Pramiracetam which when you do, I would recommend going to Alpha-GPC).

I initially had started with getting my L-Theanine from green tea, however lately I've been taking Neuro Breeze - L-Theanine and it has a much more pronounced effectiveness than just the tea alone. I'd recommend going straight for a L-Theanine capsule or source since you'll be getting more L-Theanine from that as opposed to getting it from green/black tea.

If you have any more questions go ahead and ask mate hope this helps

Great, that'll get me sorted! By the way, what are your thoughts on PhenylPiracetam? it's essentially a stimulant, but i suppose it would be much better alternative to amps or mph for ADD (if taken as needed basis).

 

[ZenPit]

Great, that'll get me sorted! By the way, what are your thoughts on PhenylPiracetam? it's essentially a stimulant, but i suppose it would be much better alternative to amps or mph for ADD (if taken as needed basis).

Personally I don't know a lot of PhenylPiracetam, and I believe it is a fairly new one (right?). Personally I stay away from new Nootropics for a bit, such as Noopept, until I see more research and personal anecdotes regarding the safety and effectiveness of said drug.

 

[Scatkat]

Has anyone experienced sleepiness/brainfog from taking racetams? If you have and persisted with your stack, did those affects go away?

I've tried Piracetam, Pramracetam and Oxiracetam and get this effect almost immediately after, so the longest I have taken them for is one week. I tried each for a few days to a week, along with ALPHA GPC, Co10 and a few other recommended supplements, and all of my doses were the minimum recommended dose, sometimes even lower, but as my concentration already being poor when studying, I didn't stick with it for too long. Cheeers

 

[ZenPit]

Has anyone experienced sleepiness/brainfog from taking racetams? If you have and persisted with your stack, did those affects go away?

I've tried Piracetam, Pramracetam and Oxiracetam and get this effect almost immediately after, so the longest I have taken them for is one week. I tried each for a few days to a week, along with ALPHA GPC, Co10 and a few other recommended supplements, and all of my doses were the minimum recommended dose, sometimes even lower, but as my concentration already being poor when studying, I didn't stick with it for too long. Cheeers

Yea this happens to several people, especially when first starting off. You might want to take a slightly smaller dose and eventually stagger it up after a week or so. I personally think it either has to do something about the Racetam being a new substance in your system, or the Choline dosage.

I'd say try to bear with it for a bit like 2 weeks if you can do it and you should no longer have to worry about drowsiness.

 

[Solipsis]

I don't get it with piracetam or oxiracetam (which is more similar to piracetam to me than other racetams), but I may have gotten some on pramiracetam scatkat... I hear that pramiracetam is known for this potential, I can't say the same for other racetams.
Although aniracetam has anxiolytic effects for me, and I am not unique getting those. But relief from anxiety is not the same as sleepiness or fogginess, certainly not. Maybe sleepiness or brainfog are possible consequences from an excess of a nootropic that has anxiolytic qualities though, so they *could* be an extension of one another?
But if your doses were low, I don't know. How low are we talking? Some people seem to have pretty crazy dosage standards with things like choline sources or racetams.

 

[Morkin]

I could only a find a choline AND inositol supplement (250mgs each). Is that ok?

Currently doing 1600mg of piracetam only.

I'm also taking zopiclone about 5 days out of 7 due insomnia. Don't know if that matters (I suppose no one does!).

I'm hoping the piracetam improves my cognitive function, which has been impaired due to the sleep disorder. I'm pretty sure that my memory has also been damages by over a decade of smoking weed (2 years clean so far).

 

[Solipsis]

I don't see any issue with that, but the choline dose is on the low side. Maybe consider taking it twice daily.

Be careful taking zopiclone that often.
Then again I understand if the alternative is insomnia (I am no stranger to it, nor am I a stranger to zopiclone - I have it in pure form), but maybe antihistaminergic drugs are less dangerous. I wouldn't be surprised if zopiclone causes some impairment if taken that frequently. Had benzo dependence myself which was hell... and the Z-drugs are considered to have most of the dangers of benzo's plus some carcinogenity.

But that is another topic.

 

[Morkin]

^ Thank you for your thought & advice.

And yes, I've taken a little time off-work here & there to take a break from the Z (& suffer days of insomnia as part of the bargain).