NEWS: smh.com.au- April 14, 2008 - 3:10PM"Plan for painkillers to be on script only"

[madmick19]

Time to get back on Topic guys,

as for making assumtions about the severity of peoples dependance or relationship to substances i wouldnt be all that keen to pidgeon hole that "addicts" dont care for themselves.

as for the products becomming scheduled, it will still take a while to work out the economic cost of doing so the govermant will or should look into the impact that legislation will have on the market and consumer with the costs associated and benefits.

just like psuedoephidriene , it was pulled for good, then put back on shelves for pharmacist despensing, then the ID thing came about. more than likely what will happen if they want to change it.

as for the article itself, i wouldnt mind hearing why the person who runs the forum would claim that 5% of the population could be addicted to pills, with only 7000 members of the board???
and also his idea of what a pill addiction is??

 

[Mr TIMO]

What would the point of an ID check be?
If they get suspicious of someone ordering large quantities, are they gonna inform the police and then the police will come around and say "we believe you are abusing nurofen plus"
"yes officer i am, now fuck off i'm watching tv"

im sick of knee jerk reactions like this. hopefully common sense will prevail.

 

[KompelZ]

What would the point of an ID check be?
If they get suspicious of someone ordering large quantities, are they gonna inform the police and then the police will come around and say "we believe you are abusing nurofen plus"
"yes officer i am, now fuck off i'm watching tv"

lol

 

[the_ketaman]

It wont happen, just like making the legal drinking age 21, its just not going to happen.

If it does I will just have to spend my money on the oxy's and heroin around here that I just found out about. But its not going to happen. All the trouble people would have to go through, doctors appointments, scripts and such, might as well just stop making them and give out panadeine forte when a low dose opiate analgesic is needed. This is so dumb and if it has anything to do with kevin rudd he's an idiot....BTW unless the prime minister used drugs I would hate all of them. POLITICS SUCKS!!! PHYSICALLY SAFE DRUGS FTW!!!!(cept for od an that shit)

If they do make it script only then im just going to have to start shooting H and then they'll just have another problem to deal with. Ha!

 

[hoptis]

as for the article itself, i wouldnt mind hearing why the person who runs the forum would claim that 5% of the population could be addicted to pills, with only 7000 members of the board???
and also his idea of what a pill addiction is??

Just to clarify:

The "5%" reference is bullshit and never came from me in any of the interviews I did, but the media just keeps repeating the lie. I did say there was a percentage of people that take N+ outside the recommended amounts on the packet and that only a few of these go on to become addicted.

Thanks for posting Maxy, we're pretty familiar with the way media tends to make their own stories from the words they're given, especially on anything related to drugs they think might sell more papers. Thanks for clarifying your position.

I would also tend to think making codeine-based medicines prescription-only would be such an inconvenience to the general public and health system that it won't actually happen.

In summary however, our site is a bout harm minimisation. There site is about abstinence and recovery. The two are at opposites and CWE does not fit their agenda. They should be free to choose not to promote it.

I wouldn't say they're opposites, the other end of the spectrum is definitely those who believe that all drug users are weak and not deserving of any assistance short of a bullet in the head. As a forum focussed on recovery I can understand their opposition to sharing CWE information, though obviously as we are about minimising harm we might see it differently.

 

[Maxy]

TGA Discussion

I would also tend to think making codeine-based medicines prescription-only would be such an inconvenience to the general public and health system that it won't actually happen.

This is what the TGA actually said, I think you will agree that the media's report is not a true reflection;

DISCUSSION – RELEVANT MATTERS UNDER 52E

The Committee considered that the issue of extractability and abuse of codeine combination products were the central issues. These relate to 52E(1)(e), the dosage and formulation and 52E(1)(g), the potential for abuse of a substance.

It was noted that whilst most people use these OTC medicine combination products legitimately, there was evidence for abuse, the pattern of which appeared to be different in different jurisdictions. A Member stated that it appeared that the products were being abused irrespective of the extractability issue. The Committee also noted that the sponsor did not provide any data on dissolution of codeine in the codeine combination product. A Member indicated that although the Committee had to await XXXXX response, the results of dissolution tests were arbitrary in relation to dissolution time and therefore, would be difficult to interpret.

Additionally, the Medicines Classification Committee (MCC) was currently considering restriction of codeine combination products. The Committee was informed that the MCC was currently considering whether there should be more restriction levels of access to codeine and whether or not pack sizes should be limited. No recommendation has been made at this stage and the matter is still under consideration. Considering the Members’ concerns on the abuse of these products, XXXXX Member asked the Committee whether there was a need to conduct an analysis on the use pattern of these products. XXXXX Member also suggested that the diversion and abuse potential of codeine-ibuprofen combination products could also perhaps be considered at XXXXX. The Committee noted that the data for an analysis on the extent of use and abuse could probably be obtained from sources such as industry, law enforcement agencies and the National Drugs and Alcohol Research Centre (NDARC; University of NSW, Sydney). It was thought that these data might help the Committee to gain a better understanding of the abuse issue more broadly. A Member indicated that a drug and alcohol expert XXXXX was currently putting together a dossier for XXXXX and a copy of this document could be provided to the Committee once this was completed. The Committee acknowledged this and considered that the issues relating to the abuse and misuse of codeine combination products, whether these may themselves warrant a Schedule 8 listing for codeineibuprofen products. Considering the views of the Members, particularly on the issue of abuse of codeine and given that this was a matter of public health, the Committee decided to foreshadow consideration of this item to the June 2008 NDPSC Meeting so it had time to receive information from XXXXX on dissolution (based on the findings of the tests conducted by XXXXX), and information on the use pattern of codeine combination products and extent of their abuse. END

 

[Green Laser]

Is anyone else really struggling to wrap their head around the idea of being addicted to codeine? It's so horrifyingly boring. I've taken recreational doses daily for weeks at a time (combination of CWEs, and keeping it within safe paracetamol ranges because I was using 30/500s) and never felt any urge whatsoever to continue use afterwards.

And it's not like I'm some zen freak, I've been on the bad side of benzos, and could easily see myself becoming addicted if I had a steady supply of oxy or H... but codeine!?

and to take suboxone to get off codeine? Jesus, that seems worse than when diamorphine was used to get off morphine.

 

[ifonly]

can somebody please let the people on that other board know that getting THEM of THEIR addictions is not more important then furthur clogging up GP's time, making extra trouble for people who legitimately need the pain, and all round basically costing everybody else, just so that *they* have an easier way to kick the habit then actually getting the willpower to do it themselves.

its a complete and utter selfish fucking joke. i honestly want somebody to quote me over there, because it needs to be said if it hasnt already.

oh and as an endnote, 1.7 grams of codeine? im starting to think this is all some sort of prank...are these people seriously just uneducated soccer mums? do they not know that codeine has a ceiling effect at around 500mg? sigh

this all pisses me off, if your going to engage in discussion about something, at least have some sort of fucking decent knowledge first. its identical to people at parties who sit there smashing down beer after beer, chainsmoking the night away, and then have the nerve to say how codeine or morphine or whatever is so damn bad for you and its only for junkie homeless people

or people who say, well yeah, ok maybe codeine/morphine isnt gonna kill you, but its still lowering your immune system and making you unhealthy.....

the intelligence of general society really annoys and scares me, seriously. and to make it worse, they seem to embrace their idiocy and spout forth their own opinions and thoughts on matters of which they have no fucking clue about.

GRRRRR

 

[static_mind]

I sometimes use several grams. Roughly 300mg each dose and redoseing every 1.5-2 hours. I can tell you I feel the Codeine.

I think the maxium dose might be for a single go. Id bump up each dose but the side effects increase and I dont feel any nicer.

 

[KompelZ]

or people who say, well yeah, ok maybe codeine/morphine isnt gonna kill you, but its still lowering your immune system and making you unhealthy.....

Nah, opiates have benefited my health more than anything. They lowers stress, which helps my immune system.

WIN.

 

[Mr Blonde]

or people who say, well yeah, ok maybe codeine/morphine isnt gonna kill you, but its still lowering your immune system and making you unhealthy.....

They do affect the immune system, just not to the extent that the anti-drug crusaders would like you to believe.

Article here.

 

[infectedmushroom]

it's judgment day people, the end is near...

 

[Maxy]

can somebody please let the people on that other board know that getting THEM of THEIR addictions is not more important then furthur clogging up GP's time, making extra trouble for people who legitimately need the pain,

Noone from the other site has anything to do with the TGA reviewing codeine availablity, try reading the thread through including what the TGA actually said. It came from an authority within their jurisdiction, not from a bunch of codeine addicts.

They are also worried about people extracting the codeine. Read away and educate yourself.

oh and as an endnote, 1.7 grams of codeine? im starting to think this is all some sort of prank...are these people seriously just uneducated soccer mums? do they not know that codeine has a ceiling effect at around 500mg?

You are wrong, so perhaps it is you that needs educating. With increasing tolerance over time the ceiling effect is not a factor and people take well in excess of 500mg AND feel it. Someone who is taking 1500 mgs a day and drops their dose immediately to 1200mg goes into withdrawals.

There are plenty of people using CWE who take more than 500mg a day.

if your going to engage in discussion about something, at least have some sort of fucking decent knowledge first.

Couldn't agree more. When you have educated yourself let me know.

[EDIT: Not necessary. hoptis]

 

[eggman]

Looks as though the codeine help group has had a change of mind about assisting there subscribers to learn more about CWE

This is now on their homepage apparently...

We are adding a new link on our front page for prospective members that I encourage you all to read.

Once you have read this file, you are welcome to stay and assist each other to break free from codeine addiction. The file clarifies the purpose of our forum.

We respect the rights of anyone who wants to exercise their choice to continue to use codeine, and we encourage you to seek help on "harm-reduction" on an appropriate site. We wish you all the very best in your endeavours and hope that your use does not become a problem in its own right, as it has for thousands of people who have come here seeking help for their addiction.

<b>In short, if you are a recreational user or you are simply interested in using without causing harm from ibuprofen/paracetamol then you are in the wrong place. We recomnmend www.Bluelight.ru to you.</b>

If you are here to seek help for your addiction, getting off codeine will eliminate any risk to your health and we encourage you to take that step immediately.

Love and best wishes to you all

 

[Maxy]

Hi Guys.
since the media coverage we have had a lot of people coming on and hijacking the discussion so we decided to be clear about our objectives (to get people off codeine) , and to point people who want to continue to use codeine to sites like this that are setup for that purpose.

What we dd then was to add a link to our frontpage which goes to this file below. We think its a good way to make sure peope get the help they are looking for and our email feedback indicates agreement.

Best wishes to you all
Maxy.

------------------------------

Codeine Addiction Help Forum – Please Read
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au


The Codeine Addiction Forum was established in 2003 and was the world’s first resource specifically for Codeine Addicts. Over the last 4 years we have helped thousands of addicts in Australia and Internationally.

The forum is here for people who are addicted or dependent on codeine and who want to get clean. We are not a resource for anyone who wishes to continue taking codeine and is looking to reduce harm from over-the-counter preparations that also contain Ibuprofen or Paracetamol/Acetaminophen.

There are many internet resources for people wanting to use codeine on an ongoing basis (sometimes referred to as recreational users), but few for people wanting to get clean. Our experience over the last 4 years is that for codeine addicts, any method that produces pure codeine leads to an escalation of that person’s addiction. While this is not true in every case it is certainly our overwhelming experience.

As well as the harm from the ibuprofen and Paracetamol that has been widely discussed in the media, codeine itself causes a range of health problems including tolerance, depression or low mood, pain, headache, tooth decay, chronic constipation, feelings of low self-worth, fatigue, fluid retention, and trouble urinating, menstrual problems and of course can have significant social and family impacts.

The surest way to avoid harm is to get clean, and we can help you do that.

With the exception of the taper method of detox (which has a low rate of success but is worth trying), all addicts that detox from codeine are immediately eliminating the risks from consuming ibuprofen or paracetamol, so that is our focus. We have a number of members with more than 3 years free of codeine addiction and hundreds of others who have substantial time free from their addiction.

If you would like help to break free then please join us.

Contrary to recent media coverage, the operators of this forum have not made any representations to the TGA regarding the scheduling of over-the-counter codeine preparations, and we do not support codeine products being made prescription only.

Please Note:
If you are looking to use codeine on an ongoing basis, we recommend you seek the support of internet resources specifically designed for that purpose, including the helpful people at Bluelight http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=20

5th May 2008

 

[Maxy]

ops. linked to the archive.. best update that tonigh

 

[KompelZ]

I've just down 2 mg of xanax amd mah CWE is chillin' in teh fridge!!!11

 

[EmuBitter]

Over the counter codeine preparations might become prescription only

[EDIT: Threads merged. hoptis]

i was reading the west australian newspaper last week and it stated that over the counter codeine preparations, ones containing ibuprofen, paracetemol or asprin with codeine (eg neurofen plus, panadeine etc) might become prescription only. This was because some people were going to hospital due to ingesting too much ibuprofen etc.

The article stated that the decision was under review and whether these medicines become prescription only will be known in august 2008.

personally this pisses me off. all i can do is hope the descison is to keep them OTC.

 

[KingConvenience]

olds news, massive thread somewhere here about it all.

 

[Mr Blonde]

This is old news, there was a thread about it a few months ago I guess when the first story about codeine abuse came out.