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My view on junkies (and related hard-core) drug addicts.

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If they legalized drugs and sold them at the DMV, everyone would quit!! No seriously though, i dont understand how some of these laws work. Like for example, why is illegal in all states to do these drugs (pot, coke, heroin, etc.), but people can ride motorcycles without helmets. Look at the number of deaths there compared to drug usage, minus the crimes committed in acts of violence trying to obtain these drugs. Now mind you, that is just one example and there are more.

Why??? Becuase; and that is all any police officer will tell you. Even ask a cop once, and they will give you a dumb ass smile with their big sunglasses on and say-"Well son, that is just the way things are. And I dont see them changes things anytime soon."

So does anyone know??? Probably not. :-)
 
The reason the US has so much trouble with drugs is because you have such a shit system. I am from the Netherlands myself, where, as most of you probably know, weed, salvia, mushrooms and some other stuff can be legally purchased. Although so-called "hard drugs" is illegal here, it is easier to come by then in just about any other country. Despite all this, we have very little trouble with drugs around here, simply because we dont shove our heads up our asses like you do in the us, but instead make sure that info and help if necessary is available without any strings attached. We have drop-off points in every large town where you can get your drugs tested (untill some time ago you could even get yer dope tested at parties so you always knew what you were taking). To stop junkies from stealing, we supply them with methadon and try to help them make the best of their lives despite their addiction.

I think it's about time the US get their heads out of their asses and stop trying to eliminate drugs from society. If instead they spend their zillion dollar budget for the "war on drugs" on projects like we have here in the netherlands, they might actually accomplish something
 
While I applaud the progressive drug policy of the Netherlands, I don't think it would ever work in the US. A problem of scale and tolerence within the general population. Most people do not agree that tax dollars should be spent to help addicts and users, but rather to incarcerate them.
 
Cremaster said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And what happens when mankind develops a drug that is SO euphoric and SO addictive that said developer corners the market, and too large a percentage of society gets hooked on it. Should that be legal too?

I
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And it being illegal is going to stop people from getting it? You can get heroin in prison, why the fuck wouldn't you be able to get this drug on the outside? Also, if the drug was better then life what would be the downside of being an addict? If its better then life, hook me on up. I have to say though, this question belongs with "What if a girl was born so hot that every man had to rape her?"
The arguments for legalization are almost all common sense and the only reason I can see why people actually think drugs should be illegal do so because of a personally bias againest drugs with a few exceptions. If you think alcohol and tobacco should be legal, but cocaine and heroin should be illegal then your arguement is inconsistent and is not even worth discussing.
 
twgburst said:
And it being illegal is going to stop people from getting it? You can get heroin in prison, why the fuck wouldn't you be able to get this drug on the outside? Also, if the drug was better then life what would be the downside of being an addict? If its better then life, hook me on up. I have to say though, this question belongs with "What if a girl was born so hot that every man had to rape her?"
The arguments for legalization are almost all common sense and the only reason I can see why people actually think drugs should be illegal do so because of a personally bias againest drugs with a few exceptions. If you think alcohol and tobacco should be legal, but cocaine and heroin should be illegal then your arguement is inconsistent and is not even worth discussing.
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wait until you have children. when you do, you'll be happier that drugs are harder to get due to their illegal status. Yes, people will experiment and try, and there are times when this is certainly fine. but do you want your 13 year old child to be able to pay off some adult to get her some heroin from the local drug store?
 
Man, if you think heroin is more destructive than alcohol, then there is just no helping you!
 
I started using drugs at 13...cigs, booze, herb...young kids in many places have no trouble whatsoever getting drugs. When I was 15-16 E, LSD.

I used to be able to get all the illicit substances much more easily than ciggarettes or booze.

What you're are talking about is already happening. If we legalized it would be harder for kids to get drugs as they would have to find some sleezy fucker who will either sell it to them (which would carry increased penalties for the seller) or some low life to go in and buy it for them (which would likely also carry increased penalties if the person was caught doing it) instead of just calling up a friend to get somerthing of questionable quality and purity.

M
 
Negro-kitty said:
Man, if you think heroin is more destructive than alcohol, then there is just no helping you!
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can you show me otherwise? not as a sum total of all users but from a per-user standpoint? obviously, more people abuse alcohol due to its easy availability.
 
Well, on a purely physiological level, alcohol is much, much, much worse for your body than heroin.

Long term heroin addiction (in an evironment where the drug is legal and safe) has virtually no true health risks (besides the small possibility of OD'ing which could be prevented were Narcan widely available), whereas long time alcohol abuse will virtually always end in death or disease.

M
 
Cremaster:

Alcohol is both neurotoxic and hepatoxic.

Heroin is virtually non-toxic, with the only risk of use being overdose (which only generally occurs when purity is unknown, a result of heroin being illegal).

So there you go! If you don't believe me, you REALLY need to take a look at the medical literature.
 
Cremaster said:
wait until you have children. when you do, you'll be happier that drugs are harder to get due to their illegal status. Yes, people will experiment and try, and there are times when this is certainly fine. but do you want your 13 year old child to be able to pay off some adult to get her some heroin from the local drug store?
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I wouldn't want my kid to be gay, should they make being gay a crime? I wouldn't want my kid to hate black people, should they make racism a crime? I wouldn't want my kid to become a police officer, should they make that a crime? If my kid uses drugs I would rather know about it and give advise then to not know and get a phone call cause my kid died of an OD. If you are that worried about what your kid does you shouldn't have a kid. I would rather have a son that can take care of his addiction legally for a low cost then have a son that has to steal to support his $200 a week heroin habbit.
 
twgburst said:
[lots of irrelevant analogies snipped]....I would rather have a son that can take care of his addiction legally for a low cost then have a son that has to steal to support his $200 a week heroin habbit.
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I would rather not have a son who is a heroin addict at all. In fact I DO have a son, and being a father, I have to say that I'm glad that heroin is illegal.
 
His analogies are not irrelevent. Except for the gay one maybe, because being gay isn't a choice (and yes, I know, because I am gay, and let me tell ya, life would be easier if I weren't), but all the others are. Drug use should be a choice just like choosing to be racist, or choosing a certain profession. It is a decision a person makes with their lives.

You seem to be missing the obvious point here (in regards to legalization of illicit substances.) Although having a son addicted to heroin in either instance, i.e. illicit heroin or legal heroin, is not a great thing, would you rather have a son who was able to get clean needles, safe, known purity heroin at a non-black market inflated price; or would you rather have a street junkie for a son who uses dirty needles because access to clean ones is blocked, crappy street heroin with god knows what in it and little to no access to rehab programs?

It is doubtful that legalization would increase rates of substance abuse. When stuff was legalized in the Netherlands abuse/addiction rates went down. Do you feel that if it was legal your son would go out a buy it and do it? And if so, why do you feel this way?

Is he under 18? If so, legalizing drugs would make it harder for him to get them, if he is over 18, then it really is his choice on what he does with his life.

This thread has completely shifted focus and we should probly either start a new one, or bring this into PM's, because poor inimicals thread has been hardcore hijacked! ;)

M
 
Negro-kitty said:
I view alcoholics and potheads in the same light as any other addicts.

Heroin is not a 'harder' drug than alcohol by any means.
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Ive been drinking regularly, as have many people I know, for years. I do not get sick and fiend if I go a few days without booze. The amount of heroin addicts I have personally known is far smaller than the amount of drinkers I have known, and I have seen more people on heroin lose their jobs, their kids, their self respect, and in a few cases their lives.
 
The amount of heroin addicts I have personally known is far smaller than the amount of drinkers I have known, and I have seen more people on heroin lose their jobs, their kids, their self respect, and in a few cases their lives.
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Have you read the other replies in this thread, the reason people are able to continue a very destructive behavior such as daily intake of EtOH is because it is legal!

Also, heroin withdrawal is by no means life threatening, just unpleasent, whereas EtOH withdrawal can kill you. Does anyone see the difference here?

The people who's lives are destroyed by junk tend to be casualties of the things we've discussed above, which I can't reiterate here right this moment, cuz I am going to get LoR2 right now! Yea!!

M
 
^^ Yes, and I agree with your points entirely

I am just speaking from my point of view. It just seems that the way things are in our society at the present time makes developing a junk habit a very slippery slope to go down in comparison to alcohol, in which quality control measures are taken and the black market is eliminated. I am by no means taking a moral stance and saying one is inherently better, or less worse, than another. I am taking the stance however, that given circumstance, one is most definitely "harder" than the other.
 
MattPD:

Its quite alright, as I have been diligently reading your, along with everyones replys. I basically shifted the focus of the thread when I posted about legalizing drugs. I do agree with what you said above however, and I challenge anyone to argue those points.
 
I am by no means taking a moral stance and saying one is inherently better, or less worse, than another. I am taking the stance however, that given circumstance, one is most definitely "harder" than the other.
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You definetly have a point, in our given social climate the use of heroin, coke, or any of the illicit drugs is more harmful to the life of the user due to their illegal nature.

Very true.

M
 
MattPD said:
You definetly have a point, in our given social climate the use of heroin, coke, or any of the illicit drugs is more harmful to the life of the user due to their illegal nature.

Very true.

M
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Care to elaborate on that?
 
Well, he was saying that because drugs are illegal use/possesion of them carries higher penalties, making them more damaging to the life of the user. For example, drunk driving is prosecuted very lightly, while possesion of even a small amount of heroin can carry prison time.

Due to it's nature as illegal, the risks associated with using an illegal drug are magnified. Not only due to LE, but also because of the above mentioned reasons (dirty needles, impurity, dangerous nature of aquisition, etc...)

As our social climate is one that is accepting of the WoD currently illegal drugs carry many more possible risks and consequences (to the user) that could be resolved were we to change public policy.

M
 
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