thizzlemonster86
Bluelighter
Or this lol. They just didnt clean the pill press good enough then, got it.
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RT&DC Moderators: Senior Staff
Mortal Kombats
- Thread starter SilentRoller
- Start date
Or this lol. They just didnt clean the pill press good enough then, got it.
The Mortal Combats have a mixed review tbh - not everyone 'enjoys' them. They (along with a lot of these newer 'super' pills tick most of the boxes of what MDMA should be for a lot of people they seem to be missing something. Most people complain about the lack of empathy and tbh when reading the majority of the reports not many people mention it/being loved up etc. Big pupils, jaw grinding, sweating, talking nonsense, music sounding great and generally messed up. At first people thought it was about the amount of MG's but people with tolerance, people who have taken in halves etc still say the same thing.
today I noticed that some of these are different.
Red MKs have a double breakline and the edge is bevelled both on the front and back.
Today I saw 3 that had no breakline, were darker in colour and the logo was almost impossible to make out what it was.
Anyone seen MKs like that? Hoping they haven't been faked already!
Cheers
Red MKs have a double breakline and the edge is bevelled both on the front and back.
Today I saw 3 that had no breakline, were darker in colour and the logo was almost impossible to make out what it was.
Anyone seen MKs like that? Hoping they haven't been faked already!
Cheers
thizzlemonster86
Bluelighter
Maybe the presser just did a shitty job on those ones. Iv seen pills have fucked up break lines before. It looks like a mis press basically. Not sure if thats the case here. I suppose its not impossible for there to be fake ones.
thizzlemonster86
Bluelighter
LoL you dont need to be in europe to get those pills. Iv had multiple press's from the land of MDMA. Stop trollin.
The double score line is quite well known (looks like a very thin X) this is no indication of strength or purity but seems like the new press.
http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=31735
http://www.pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=31735
Here's an image of the iffy ones I've seen.
The dragon symbol is faint and waxy looking (you have to look pretty hard to see it on this photo). On the reverse side there is no bevelled edge and no breakline. The bad looking 1 is 1mm shorter.
The dragon symbol is faint and waxy looking (you have to look pretty hard to see it on this photo). On the reverse side there is no bevelled edge and no breakline. The bad looking 1 is 1mm shorter.
mintsRus420
Bluelighter
i feel like they are real just a miss press they just look like they came out weird, i had a couple green ? and some of them looked just like these no logo no + sign on the back and were just a little lighter on the scale but were still good, so thats just my 2 cents
xtcboi84
Bluelighter
werd. i just think its the left over (like end of the bag) but i could be wrong.
and also some of the PF's didn't have X score on the back so i think its ok.
and also some of the PF's didn't have X score on the back so i think its ok.
SilentRoller
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2012
- Messages
- 948
A warning for everyone: The MK's can sometimes come on VERY slowly (even slower than the PF's in some cases). This can lead to an interesting come-up, especially if you eat more. However, I will say that the empathy was great in my experience and I shall be have another experience in about a months time
futura2012
Bluelighter
The trace of PMMA from a supposedly quality super pill seems a bit of a mystery.
Thinking about how pills are made firstly into a mixed powder then poured into the pill machine I cant see how an unclean pill press machine would do it unless streetworx just happened to get a pill that got contaminated as the mixture got poured in but very unlikely I think.
It would seem more likely contamination happened prior to the pill being mixed. Somehow in the lab.
Heres the Safrol Molecule
Heres the MDMA Molecule
Heres the PMMA Molecule
As babylonboy has said the PMMA molecule hasnt got a methylendioxy ring so anyone starting with safrol would have this ring before you started.
I have read in certain places that certain processes can attack the methylendioxy ring but I dont know how viable it would then be to start adding stuff as well. All in one process whilst trying to make MDMA LOL.
I pulled this from erowid which sort of indicates that forming PMMA or MDMA is closely related but my chemistry knowledge struggles a bit understanding this lot:
I might try and contact Scure from ED who often helps in these matters just to clarify if somehow producing PMMA in the MDMA process might be possible.
It would be great to figure out how these trace amounts of other active molecules always seem to materialise in pills.
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This was pretty interesting to check into. I found some pretty clear answers in these two papers: A study of impurities in intermediates and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) samples produced via reductive amination routes and Basic and neutral route specific impurities in MDMA prepared by different synthesis methods: Comparison of impurity profiles. I think Google Scholar will only let you see the abstracts, unfortunately, and the info with the answers about the PMMA is in the body.
The first paper identified all of the impurities at every step of the process along multiple synthesis routes, and they identified a compound called estragole in commercially/industrially purchased safrole. If you take a look at the structure of estragole in that link, you can see that it is an analog of safrole, and if that compound is put through all of the same processes as one of the common safrole routes to MDMA, it becomes PMMA. Futura quoted a bit above that mentioned anethole. Anethole is what estragole becomes after the first step of the synth route I referred to before.
The paper didn't list the relative amounts and I'm assuming the estragole impurity is only present in very small or trace amounts most of the time, but if a chemist got a batch of safrole that was particularly badly contaminated with estragole, the resulting MDMA could have a serious PMMA contamination.
The second paper did analysis on some MDMA samples produced by a different safrole route and also found traces of PMMA, but there wasn't any elaboration on HOW it got there and it isn't a route I am very familiar with so I don't really have much to add there. Since it starts with safrole and ends up at MDMA, and the ends of estragole and safrole actually participating in the chemistry are identical, this PMMA got here the same was as the PMMA from the other route.
Short answer: safrole conatiminated with estragole can be responsible for accidental PMMA in amounts that may vary significantly from batch to batch.
The first paper identified all of the impurities at every step of the process along multiple synthesis routes, and they identified a compound called estragole in commercially/industrially purchased safrole. If you take a look at the structure of estragole in that link, you can see that it is an analog of safrole, and if that compound is put through all of the same processes as one of the common safrole routes to MDMA, it becomes PMMA. Futura quoted a bit above that mentioned anethole. Anethole is what estragole becomes after the first step of the synth route I referred to before.
The paper didn't list the relative amounts and I'm assuming the estragole impurity is only present in very small or trace amounts most of the time, but if a chemist got a batch of safrole that was particularly badly contaminated with estragole, the resulting MDMA could have a serious PMMA contamination.
The second paper did analysis on some MDMA samples produced by a different safrole route and also found traces of PMMA, but there wasn't any elaboration on HOW it got there and it isn't a route I am very familiar with so I don't really have much to add there. Since it starts with safrole and ends up at MDMA, and the ends of estragole and safrole actually participating in the chemistry are identical, this PMMA got here the same was as the PMMA from the other route.
Short answer: safrole conatiminated with estragole can be responsible for accidental PMMA in amounts that may vary significantly from batch to batch.
futura2012
Bluelighter
^^ Many thanks for looking into that Scure great work!!
Finally the mystery is over.
So this is how the Synth Route in the first paper goes:
Clan Lab have Safrole mixed with impurities of estragole.
They convert from Safrole to Isasafrole
^^ Safrole
^^ Isosafrole
^^ Via intermediates to MDMA
During the process of safrole to isasafrole estragole converts to anethole (without the clan chemist being aware). As you can see the synthesis process is exactly the same.
^^ Estragole
^^ Anethole
^^ Via intermediates to PMMA
Isasafrole is converted to MD-P2P and the anethole converts to the PMMA equiviliant. Then you convert MD-P2P + PMMA equiviliant via reductive amination to MDMA and a trace of PMMA as seen in the Mortal Kombat GC/MS.
Conclusion Mortal Kombats are made using Safrole as their starting precursor.
Mortal Combats will contain various traces of PMMA depending on how much estragole is present in the labs various batches of safrole. Likely the PMMA amount will varie slightly according to each batch.
Finally I noticed during reading about this that Anethole is easily available from Anise Oil which is a much easier precursor to obtain than Sassafras/Safrole so this may explain why idiots sometimes produce PMMA instead of MDMA. Places like Australia where they have really strict control of precursors seem to have a bigger problem with PMMA this is likely why.
Always been mystified by those annoying trace amounts of PMMA in pills thought it was something sinister or cross contamination but clearly just a byproduct of clandestine safrole techniques.
Finally the mystery is over.
So this is how the Synth Route in the first paper goes:
Clan Lab have Safrole mixed with impurities of estragole.
They convert from Safrole to Isasafrole
^^ Safrole
^^ Isosafrole
^^ Via intermediates to MDMA
During the process of safrole to isasafrole estragole converts to anethole (without the clan chemist being aware). As you can see the synthesis process is exactly the same.
^^ Estragole
^^ Anethole
^^ Via intermediates to PMMA
Isasafrole is converted to MD-P2P and the anethole converts to the PMMA equiviliant. Then you convert MD-P2P + PMMA equiviliant via reductive amination to MDMA and a trace of PMMA as seen in the Mortal Kombat GC/MS.
Conclusion Mortal Kombats are made using Safrole as their starting precursor.
Mortal Combats will contain various traces of PMMA depending on how much estragole is present in the labs various batches of safrole. Likely the PMMA amount will varie slightly according to each batch.
Finally I noticed during reading about this that Anethole is easily available from Anise Oil which is a much easier precursor to obtain than Sassafras/Safrole so this may explain why idiots sometimes produce PMMA instead of MDMA. Places like Australia where they have really strict control of precursors seem to have a bigger problem with PMMA this is likely why.
Always been mystified by those annoying trace amounts of PMMA in pills thought it was something sinister or cross contamination but clearly just a byproduct of clandestine safrole techniques.
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futura2012
Bluelighter
^^ Sorry Roy I probably havent explained it so clearly.
I hoped the pics might help but sometimes they make it more complex.
When you make MDMA all you are doing is modding the safrol molecule to form the shape of the MDMA molecule. Because molecules are made up of bonds of atoms you do this by making and breaking the bonds.
The reason safrol is used to make MDMA is because it is one of the closest naturally forming molecules available to MDMA.
You could mod any molecule to make MDMA but every bond you make or break is often quite tricky, time consuming and usually requires other chemicals so when you are making something you want it to be as close as possible to the target molecule.
So the PMMA story:
Basically in some safrol there is a small impurity of estragole. Estragole is an analog of safrol meaning it shares similiar shape properties not identical but similiar.
Because it shares these similiar shape properties it means if you start to modify certain atoms of the safrol molecule then that process will also have the same effect on the certain atoms on the estragole molecule.
In the process of turning the safrol molecule into MDMA it happens to turn the estragole molecule into PMMA.
This is why there is a trace amount of PMMA in the Mortal Kombats.
If you look at the pictures move from Safrol to Isasafrol to MDMA
Then look at the pictures move from Estragole to Anethole to PMMA
You will see the changes happening to both molecules are the same.
This is because throughout the process the Estragole is mixed in with the Safrol and they go through the same atom modification process.
Hopefully this makes a bit more sense
I hoped the pics might help but sometimes they make it more complex.
When you make MDMA all you are doing is modding the safrol molecule to form the shape of the MDMA molecule. Because molecules are made up of bonds of atoms you do this by making and breaking the bonds.
The reason safrol is used to make MDMA is because it is one of the closest naturally forming molecules available to MDMA.
You could mod any molecule to make MDMA but every bond you make or break is often quite tricky, time consuming and usually requires other chemicals so when you are making something you want it to be as close as possible to the target molecule.
So the PMMA story:
Basically in some safrol there is a small impurity of estragole. Estragole is an analog of safrol meaning it shares similiar shape properties not identical but similiar.
Because it shares these similiar shape properties it means if you start to modify certain atoms of the safrol molecule then that process will also have the same effect on the certain atoms on the estragole molecule.
In the process of turning the safrol molecule into MDMA it happens to turn the estragole molecule into PMMA.
This is why there is a trace amount of PMMA in the Mortal Kombats.
If you look at the pictures move from Safrol to Isasafrol to MDMA
Then look at the pictures move from Estragole to Anethole to PMMA
You will see the changes happening to both molecules are the same.
This is because throughout the process the Estragole is mixed in with the Safrol and they go through the same atom modification process.
Hopefully this makes a bit more sense
SilentRoller
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2012
- Messages
- 948
So with this in mind futura, would you advise against consumption of the MK's? I personally have had sereval good times of these pills, and would say they were (at points) on par with the PartyFlocks. Of course, one could argue that the PF was slightly better (I would agree), although I didn't notice any PMMA warning-signs whilst under the influence of the MK's.
futura2012
Bluelighter
Hello Silent Roller the GC/MS for the Mortal Kombat tests at 0.8mG PMMA so as you can see this is just a trace amount. You wouldnt notice this in terms of altered buzz or in terms of reduced safety.
If the lab were to choose safrole that had more Estragole content then this amount might go up but in reality I doubt much.
Probably more likely to go down as the Mortal Kombat crew will have likely seen the GC/MS and sourced a better quality safrol.
There making quality pills so clearly some care and thought goes into what they are doing.
It would be interesting to see another GC/MS and see if more PMMA turns up
If the lab were to choose safrole that had more Estragole content then this amount might go up but in reality I doubt much.
Probably more likely to go down as the Mortal Kombat crew will have likely seen the GC/MS and sourced a better quality safrol.
There making quality pills so clearly some care and thought goes into what they are doing.
It would be interesting to see another GC/MS and see if more PMMA turns up
babylonboy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,410
Found two of these on the floor yesterday!