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Mortal Kombats

babylonboy said:
Improper technique cannot lead to PMMA being produced from safrole or MDP2P or any precursor with a methylendioxy moiety. If by "bad precursor" you mean that the precursor includes a para-methoxylated impurity, then yes, I suppose it's possible, but I struggle to see how such an impurity might occur, and thus doubt that PMAs are often made accidentally.
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Or this lol. They just didnt clean the pill press good enough then, got it.
 
The Mortal Combats have a mixed review tbh - not everyone 'enjoys' them. They (along with a lot of these newer 'super' pills tick most of the boxes of what MDMA should be for a lot of people they seem to be missing something. Most people complain about the lack of empathy and tbh when reading the majority of the reports not many people mention it/being loved up etc. Big pupils, jaw grinding, sweating, talking nonsense, music sounding great and generally messed up. At first people thought it was about the amount of MG's but people with tolerance, people who have taken in halves etc still say the same thing.
 
today I noticed that some of these are different.

Red MKs have a double breakline and the edge is bevelled both on the front and back.

Today I saw 3 that had no breakline, were darker in colour and the logo was almost impossible to make out what it was.

Anyone seen MKs like that? Hoping they haven't been faked already!

Cheers
 
RoyMunson said:
today I noticed that some of these are different.

Red MKs have a double breakline and the edge is bevelled both on the front and back.

Today I saw 3 that had no breakline, were darker in colour and the logo was almost impossible to make out what it was.

Anyone seen MKs like that? Hoping they haven't been faked already!

Cheers
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Maybe the presser just did a shitty job on those ones. Iv seen pills have fucked up break lines before. It looks like a mis press basically. Not sure if thats the case here. I suppose its not impossible for there to be fake ones.
 
coors light said:
they are not dodgy pills, they are mdma but i think bad quality mdma a high dose in my own opinion.. i heart love hearts is also not full of shit, he over exaggerated in his description but i think hes right in saying that their is something off in there quality.@thizzlemonster86 your not in europe so how could you give a decent review when your comments go along the line of "supposed to be the bomb pills".
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LoL you dont need to be in europe to get those pills. Iv had multiple press's from the land of MDMA. Stop trollin.
 
Here's an image of the iffy ones I've seen.

The dragon symbol is faint and waxy looking (you have to look pretty hard to see it on this photo). On the reverse side there is no bevelled edge and no breakline. The bad looking 1 is 1mm shorter.

0ArOvXZ.jpg
 
^I would say copycat - left on the top image, right on the bottom. That was quick ! THANK YOU :)
 
i feel like they are real just a miss press they just look like they came out weird, i had a couple green ? and some of them looked just like these no logo no + sign on the back and were just a little lighter on the scale but were still good, so thats just my 2 cents
 
werd. i just think its the left over (like end of the bag) but i could be wrong.

and also some of the PF's didn't have X score on the back so i think its ok.
 
^TBH - the last set of x back scores came out wrong. I has been mentioned that these new stamps were due to a mishap with the stamp. Please test before consuming .
 
A warning for everyone: The MK's can sometimes come on VERY slowly (even slower than the PF's in some cases). This can lead to an interesting come-up, especially if you eat more. However, I will say that the empathy was great in my experience and I shall be have another experience in about a months time
 
The PMMA is not in there intentionally, and some had 0 pmma in there at all, either they have been sold some dodgy precursor or I dont know, was residue from something. Someone explained it to me once over in EADD stating that bad precursor could lead to PMMA being made, and then someone completely discredited it by saying it was false, so I dont know,.
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The trace of PMMA from a supposedly quality super pill seems a bit of a mystery.

Thinking about how pills are made firstly into a mixed powder then poured into the pill machine I cant see how an unclean pill press machine would do it unless streetworx just happened to get a pill that got contaminated as the mixture got poured in but very unlikely I think.

It would seem more likely contamination happened prior to the pill being mixed. Somehow in the lab.

Improper technique cannot lead to PMMA being produced from safrole or MDP2P or any precursor with a methylendioxy moiety. If by "bad precursor" you mean that the precursor includes a para-methoxylated impurity, then yes, I suppose it's possible, but I struggle to see how such an impurity might occur, and thus doubt that PMAs are often made accidentally.
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safrol.png


Heres the Safrol Molecule

mdma.png


Heres the MDMA Molecule

pmma.png


Heres the PMMA Molecule

As babylonboy has said the PMMA molecule hasnt got a methylendioxy ring so anyone starting with safrol would have this ring before you started.

I have read in certain places that certain processes can attack the methylendioxy ring but I dont know how viable it would then be to start adding stuff as well. All in one process whilst trying to make MDMA LOL.

I pulled this from erowid which sort of indicates that forming PMMA or MDMA is closely related but my chemistry knowledge struggles a bit understanding this lot:

For those not familiar with what 100mmol alkene is, it is 16.2g isosafrole, 14.8g anethole or 20.8g asarone. This method was tested out with anethole, isosafrole and asarone. The only rearrangement used on the glycol was a 15% H2SO4 rearrangement for just over 2 hours with the presence of methanol as in the Oxone document. All of the ketones were eventually aminated by using methylamine or hydroxylamine to give the intermediate imine or oxime and after Al/Hg reduction to form, respectively, PMA, PMMA, MDMA, MDA, TMMA-2 or TMA-2.
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I might try and contact Scure from ED who often helps in these matters just to clarify if somehow producing PMMA in the MDMA process might be possible.

It would be great to figure out how these trace amounts of other active molecules always seem to materialise in pills.
 
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This was pretty interesting to check into. I found some pretty clear answers in these two papers: A study of impurities in intermediates and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) samples produced via reductive amination routes and Basic and neutral route specific impurities in MDMA prepared by different synthesis methods: Comparison of impurity profiles. I think Google Scholar will only let you see the abstracts, unfortunately, and the info with the answers about the PMMA is in the body.

The first paper identified all of the impurities at every step of the process along multiple synthesis routes, and they identified a compound called estragole in commercially/industrially purchased safrole. If you take a look at the structure of estragole in that link, you can see that it is an analog of safrole, and if that compound is put through all of the same processes as one of the common safrole routes to MDMA, it becomes PMMA. Futura quoted a bit above that mentioned anethole. Anethole is what estragole becomes after the first step of the synth route I referred to before.

The paper didn't list the relative amounts and I'm assuming the estragole impurity is only present in very small or trace amounts most of the time, but if a chemist got a batch of safrole that was particularly badly contaminated with estragole, the resulting MDMA could have a serious PMMA contamination.

The second paper did analysis on some MDMA samples produced by a different safrole route and also found traces of PMMA, but there wasn't any elaboration on HOW it got there and it isn't a route I am very familiar with so I don't really have much to add there. Since it starts with safrole and ends up at MDMA, and the ends of estragole and safrole actually participating in the chemistry are identical, this PMMA got here the same was as the PMMA from the other route.

Short answer: safrole conatiminated with estragole can be responsible for accidental PMMA in amounts that may vary significantly from batch to batch.
 
^^ Many thanks for looking into that Scure great work!!

Finally the mystery is over.

So this is how the Synth Route in the first paper goes:


Clan Lab have Safrole mixed with impurities of estragole.

They convert from Safrole to Isasafrole

safrol.png


^^ Safrole

isosafrole.png


^^ Isosafrole

mdma.png


^^ Via intermediates to MDMA

During the process of safrole to isasafrole estragole converts to anethole (without the clan chemist being aware). As you can see the synthesis process is exactly the same.

estragole.png


^^ Estragole

anethole.png


^^ Anethole

pmma.png


^^ Via intermediates to PMMA


Isasafrole is converted to MD-P2P and the anethole converts to the PMMA equiviliant. Then you convert MD-P2P + PMMA equiviliant via reductive amination to MDMA and a trace of PMMA as seen in the Mortal Kombat GC/MS.

Conclusion Mortal Kombats are made using Safrole as their starting precursor.

Mortal Combats will contain various traces of PMMA depending on how much estragole is present in the labs various batches of safrole. Likely the PMMA amount will varie slightly according to each batch.

Finally I noticed during reading about this that Anethole is easily available from Anise Oil which is a much easier precursor to obtain than Sassafras/Safrole so this may explain why idiots sometimes produce PMMA instead of MDMA. Places like Australia where they have really strict control of precursors seem to have a bigger problem with PMMA this is likely why.

Always been mystified by those annoying trace amounts of PMMA in pills thought it was something sinister or cross contamination but clearly just a byproduct of clandestine safrole techniques.
 
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Wish I understood that, looks fascinating. Only thing I did in Chemistry was check the Ph of stuff
 
^^ Sorry Roy I probably havent explained it so clearly.

I hoped the pics might help but sometimes they make it more complex.


When you make MDMA all you are doing is modding the safrol molecule to form the shape of the MDMA molecule. Because molecules are made up of bonds of atoms you do this by making and breaking the bonds.

The reason safrol is used to make MDMA is because it is one of the closest naturally forming molecules available to MDMA.

You could mod any molecule to make MDMA but every bond you make or break is often quite tricky, time consuming and usually requires other chemicals so when you are making something you want it to be as close as possible to the target molecule.

So the PMMA story:

Basically in some safrol there is a small impurity of estragole. Estragole is an analog of safrol meaning it shares similiar shape properties not identical but similiar.

Because it shares these similiar shape properties it means if you start to modify certain atoms of the safrol molecule then that process will also have the same effect on the certain atoms on the estragole molecule.

In the process of turning the safrol molecule into MDMA it happens to turn the estragole molecule into PMMA.

This is why there is a trace amount of PMMA in the Mortal Kombats.


If you look at the pictures move from Safrol to Isasafrol to MDMA

Then look at the pictures move from Estragole to Anethole to PMMA

You will see the changes happening to both molecules are the same.

This is because throughout the process the Estragole is mixed in with the Safrol and they go through the same atom modification process.


Hopefully this makes a bit more sense :)
 
So with this in mind futura, would you advise against consumption of the MK's? I personally have had sereval good times of these pills, and would say they were (at points) on par with the PartyFlocks. Of course, one could argue that the PF was slightly better (I would agree), although I didn't notice any PMMA warning-signs whilst under the influence of the MK's.
 
Hello Silent Roller the GC/MS for the Mortal Kombat tests at 0.8mG PMMA so as you can see this is just a trace amount. You wouldnt notice this in terms of altered buzz or in terms of reduced safety.

If the lab were to choose safrole that had more Estragole content then this amount might go up but in reality I doubt much.

Probably more likely to go down as the Mortal Kombat crew will have likely seen the GC/MS and sourced a better quality safrol.

There making quality pills so clearly some care and thought goes into what they are doing.

It would be interesting to see another GC/MS and see if more PMMA turns up :)
 
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