Harm Reduction Mitragyna speciosa (kratom)

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I've definitely been intoxicated on opiates, unable to walk without collapsing, slurring, nodding in and out mid sentence. This often occurred with morphine, heroin, and methadone, and without the aid of other sedatives. A few times I really remember it felt like my legs were sludge and it was so difficult to walk (heroin).

My first opioid experience ever was 30mg methadone and it nearly killed me (NOT SAFE). To this day I am surprised I did not end up in a coma. It was so awful for days, vomiting and spinning, unable to move really. I had no idea what I was doing. The classics newbie mistake... took 2 and didnt feel anything after an hour so took the 3rd, not knowing methadone peaks around 3 hours. Next thing I know I wake up (about 5 hours post dosing) and just start projectile vomiting. I've never been so intoxicated in my life. I was 13 years old and living with my mother.

More than likely the returns will diminish with most substances as you've said. I just dont think it's possible to categorize all substances or one as the most devastating. Of course, there tends to be some main players (opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine). Though my boy Sigmund Freud was a huge cocaine addict! Lol it's interesting how many historical figures were into opiates and/or stimulants.

I believe dependency can look different, on different people, and with different drugs. For example, I was heavily addicted to black tar heroin and one day found myself smack dab in the middle of a huge methamphetamine ring; you ever see the movie "Spun"?

I used meth daily for about one year, in heavy doses via smoke and insufflation mainly, also oral. It's the one I didnt inject bc my girlfriend at the time wouldn't allow it lol even though we smoked crack and speed daily.

Anyway, meth was the easiest thing for me to walk away from. One day I left and haven't used it again and that was like 12 years ago. I was pleased to be away from it. I didnt break many of my personal morals for methamphetamine. However, this is clearly not the case for everyone.

Opiates on the other hand... they walked me hand in hand all the way to the gutter and nearly death. Every single line I set for myself, I eventually crossed. Every single one. I was incredibly dysfunctional until I had literally nothing. We each have our own demon(s) so to speak.

Side note... I was vacuuming the house yesterday and found a 30mg MS Contin stuck under the slider of a closet door lol. It had been there a while as much of the coating had worn away. Score

I'm jealous of your find. I've lost a blue a long time ago that still to this day haunts me LOL. So frustrating

I do think you're right about how you can't determine which drugs are more destructive than the next. But there's tangible positive and negative effects that can be tracked from users and how the substances affected their lives. People who abuse heroin have vastly different problems than someone who only abuses methamphetamine for example. But I would state that meth is probably the most potent harder drug and that's so often overlooked by meth users. It's euphoric and energizing so it's easy to overlook the strain it puts on your body and it's neurotoxicity. There are a large number of "functional" heroin addicts out there, but I've never met a functional meth addict. If they do have functionality, it doesn't seem to last for very long before they lose their sanity. Not to say that there aren't good people who use meth on a regular basis or that it's impossible to have a life with meth use, but I haven't met anyone who hasn't spiraled into a dark abyss after shortly touching meth (and they never seem to blame meth for their downfall). It's never the drugs lol.

Maybe it's because I've never dabbled in stronger opies that I don't find them to be intoxicating. I'm glad you survived the deathadone experience. Methadone/heroin/dilauded I guess are just about the strongest ones iirc--and seed tea can whoop someone badly. Fentynal is obviously a ridiculously powerful opiate analogue and carfentinal is even deadlier, but the half life is shorter in comparison. It's becoming more popular for recreational use lately because of the overwhelming amount of fentalogues going around these days, but it tends not to be the preference of many opiate addicts for whatever reasons (regarding fentynal). Heavier opiate addicts usually tend to prefer heroin/methadone from what I've seen. I'd be so paranoid to even give fent a try because the line between getting high and dying is so minute. Chewing on a fent patch just sounds like you're asking for death if you don't have obscene tolerance.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Toxicity Associated With Long-term Intravenous Heroin and Cocaine Self-administration in the Rat

Laboratory rats were given unlimited access to intravenous cocaine hydrochloride or heroin hydrochloride. Animals self-administering cocaine quickly developed a pattern of episodic drug intake, with periods of excessive cocaine self-administration alternating with brief periods of abstinence....

jamanetwork.com

Here's the abstract to the old study ^^ the mortality rate is striking!
It was in the 80s but a quick search reveals ones conducted much more recently.

If you haven't used those stronger opioids I highly suggest not doing so in the name of recreation. Playing with fire for those of us who fucking mouth wateringly love opioids lol. I've used all the ones you mentioned, and others. I am most definitely not a fentanyl fan. I actually had a medical procedure once in which light sedation was to be administered with midazolam and fentanyl. 5 injections later and I was screaming on the table.

Papaver somniferum pod or seed tea is morphine, codeine, and many other opiate alkaloids as I'm sure you are aware.

 

[aspiringchemist]

And I agree that methamphetamine is soul sucking and most definitely neurotoxic. I was just pointing out that it is used as a pharmaceutical and some people do not have issues with its use. Devils advocate I suppose.

Method of use (ROA) should be taken into account also. IMHO I just dont think it's as simple as pointing to one drug and saying "it's bad"; I do however see what you are saying and respect your opinion.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Toxicity Associated With Long-term Intravenous Heroin and Cocaine Self-administration in the Rat

Laboratory rats were given unlimited access to intravenous cocaine hydrochloride or heroin hydrochloride. Animals self-administering cocaine quickly developed a pattern of episodic drug intake, with periods of excessive cocaine self-administration alternating with brief periods of abstinence....

jamanetwork.com

Here's the abstract to the old study ^^ the mortality rate is striking!
It was in the 80s but a quick search reveals ones conducted much more recently.

If you haven't used those stronger opioids I highly suggest not doing so in the name of recreation. Playing with fire for those of us who fucking mouth wateringly love opioids lol. I've used all the ones you mentioned, and others. I am most definitely not a fentanyl fan. I actually had a medical procedure once in which light sedation was to be administered with midazolam and fentanyl. 5 injections later and I was screaming on the table.

Papaver somniferum pod or seed tea is morphine, codeine, and many other opiate alkaloids as I'm sure you are aware.

Could heroin use ever become physically destructive/fatal if it's only done intranasally or other creative ways of insertion that I don't know of? I've heard that in severe opiate abuse the withdrawal can cause heart failure (I've heard this only has occurred from improper fentynal detox/methadone from obscure situations like withdrawing in jail cells without proper treatment). I've read that severe heroin abuse can cause organ failure. I'm not sure if that's true or not bc I don't know scientifically how it could cause organ failure but I wouldn't doubt it. Street heroin is usually not of good purity from what I gather and who knows what could be in it other than fent occasionally.

As far as touching stronger opiates I totally agree with you. I have no desire. Kicking mild ones like kratom is already so hard lol! The up and the down is just too powerful from literally any opiate honestly. I've had my experiment with seed tea but after seeing how powerful it was I threw out the remainder of the batch out of fear. Seed tea is definitely not a mild opiate LOL. The most potent opioid I've touched is subutex. I've never been stoned like that and for the entire day I was dysfunctional off of a simple .5 milligram dose. I couldn't believe what was happening. I think that subs can be just as strong as the most potent of opiates if the user has mild tolerance. That's why it shocks me when people are like "I'm on 24 milligrams of suboxone and I don't even catch a buzz." 24 milligrams would be the same experience as you had with the methadone tablets if not just instant death.

As far as kratom goes I woudn't put it past it to ruin a marriage or cause someone a ton of grief in their life. But no one is going to sit in a basement 24/7 gobbling kratom--it's just not that good. Plus there's a ceiling cap with the substance and if you go past it it's pure dizziness and nausea and the euphoric properties seem to be negated with the unpleasant side effects of higher doses. Idk, I know kratom isn't harmless but it's just not as abuse-friendly as other substances. It doesn't even come close to the power of heroin imo. I've found that kratom withdrawal doesn't occur when tapering down doses too and that could just be me. When I cut back I notice some grogginess and a slight lack of enjoyment out of my days but it's not like tapering off oxy or something where you feel the misery. Then again I know someone who ruined his entire life smoking weed and I used to think weed was virtually harmless.. so it might just depend on the person. I still stand by kratom being a very weak narcotic if you can even it that.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Could heroin use ever become physically destructive/fatal if it's only done intranasally or other creative ways of insertion that I don't know of? I've heard that in severe opiate abuse the withdrawal can cause heart failure (I've heard this only has occurred from improper fentynal detox/methadone from obscure situations like withdrawing in jail cells without proper treatment). I've read that severe heroin abuse can cause organ failure. I'm not sure if that's true or not bc I don't know scientifically how it could cause organ failure but I wouldn't doubt it. Street heroin is usually not of good purity from what I gather and who knows what could be in it other than fent occasionally.

As far as touching stronger opiates I totally agree with you. I have no desire. Kicking mild ones like kratom is already so hard lol! The up and the down is just too powerful from literally any opiate honestly. I've had my experiment with seed tea but after seeing how powerful it was I threw out the remainder of the batch out of fear. Seed tea is definitely not a mild opiate LOL. The most potent opioid I've touched is subutex. I've never been stoned like that and for the entire day I was dysfunctional off of a simple .5 milligram dose. I couldn't believe what was happening. I think that subs can be just as strong as the most potent of opiates if the user has mild tolerance. That's why it shocks me when people are like "I'm on 24 milligrams of suboxone and I don't even catch a buzz." 24 milligrams would be the same experience as you had with the methadone tablets if not just instant death.

As far as kratom goes I woudn't put it past it to ruin a marriage or cause someone a ton of grief in their life. But no one is going to sit in a basement 24/7 gobbling kratom--it's just not that good. Plus there's a ceiling cap with the substance and if you go past it it's pure dizziness and nausea and the euphoric properties seem to be negated with the unpleasant side effects of higher doses. Idk, I know kratom isn't harmless but it's just not as abuse-friendly as other substances. It doesn't even come close to the power of heroin imo. I've found that kratom withdrawal doesn't occur when tapering down doses too and that could just be me. When I cut back I notice some grogginess and a slight lack of enjoyment out of my days but it's not like tapering off oxy or something where you feel the misery. Then again I know someone who ruined his entire life smoking weed and I used to think weed was virtually harmless.. so it might just depend on the person. I still stand by kratom being a very weak narcotic if you can even it that.

For the sake of staying on the topic of mitragyna speciosa, I'd be happy to message with you on some of your questions. With that said, it's certainly not medical advice and I don't know all that much about this stuff. One can absolutely die from heroin overdose via any ROA and dependency will occur with repeated use regardless of ROA.

I'd hate for someone trying to kick to come along and find a bunch of conversation about heroin in the mitragyna speciosa HR thread for the sake of their sanity.

I do speculate that heavy kratom use could be detrimental to the kidney's with long term use but there again is not any reliable and consistent evidence pointing to this. Multiple systems within our bodies are engaged constantly in a magnificent balancing act with an unbelievably narrow range for changes within the system to occur.

Eating a ton of kratom, I could see how this may stress some of these systems in the long run, but again, nothing definitive yet. Just a speculation of mine.

You are correct in saying that kratom does not have the same level of abuse potential as stronger opioids or opiates. And I would assume functional use is less of a challenge across the board with kratom; as you said it's hard to imagine someone sitting in a basement only consuming kratom constantly as one often does with other substances, and I would agree with you generally speaking. However, I would also bet money that someone has had that experience, probably someone even here on BL. There's always some outliers. Also, kratom use doesn't exist in a vacuum so to speak. Many people (myself included) use kratom as another drug in the toolbox and alongside many other substances.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

For the sake of staying on the topic of mitragyna speciosa, I'd be happy to message with you on some of your questions. With that said, it's certainly not medical advice and I don't know all that much about this stuff. One can absolutely die from heroin overdose via any ROA and dependency will occur with repeated use regardless of ROA.

I'd hate for someone trying to kick to come along and find a bunch of conversation about heroin in the mitragyna speciosa HR thread for the sake of their sanity.

I do speculate that heavy kratom use could be detrimental to the kidney's with long term use but there again is not any reliable and consistent evidence pointing to this. Multiple systems within our bodies are engaged constantly in a magnificent balancing act with an unbelievably narrow range for changes within the system to occur.

Eating a ton of kratom, I could see how this may stress some of these systems in the long run, but again, nothing definitive yet. Just a speculation of mine.

You are correct in saying that kratom does not have the same level of abuse potential as stronger opioids or opiates. And I would assume functional use is less of a challenge across the board with kratom; as you said it's hard to imagine someone sitting in a basement only consuming kratom constantly as one often does with other substances, and I would agree with you generally speaking. However, I would also bet money that someone has had that experience, probably someone even here on BL. There's always some outliers. Also, kratom use doesn't exist in a vacuum so to speak. Many people (myself included) use kratom as another drug in the toolbox and alongside many other substances.

Gotcha I get it. Inevitably it has been frustrating to perpetually live in fear of kratom withdrawals though. I've had to bring bags with me and do crazy things like eat it before showering in the bathroom if I had to stay at someone's house for a while lol. It feels a little sketchy. Not that kratom withdrawals are that horrible, but they're bad enough to be quite uncomfortable and make me want to just sleep all day with absolutely no energy. The withdrawals are bad enough to make me cave in and buy more when I've attempted to quit.

I suppose a slow taper is the best way to get off kratom. I've kicked other stuff, but in a way kratom's legality makes it actually harder for me to kick. I can just purchase more whenever the withdrawal peaks. I've always rationalized kratom use by stating "well at least it's not *insert here*" but as each month passes the feeling is becoming less and less impressive. I'm at currently about 8-15 grams daily and sometimes more. So my doses aren't ridiculous or anything or high enough to promote toxic withdrawal symptoms. It's still mentally VERY unpleasant to go through.

For me kratom withdrawal symptoms are:
-Severe fatigue (can't keep my eyes open!)
-Random aches and pains
-Anxiety
-Physical glow of discomfort (I can't explain this it's just a weird sensation)
-Restless legs and arms which prevent me from sleeping at night. This is by far the worst symptom!

I've found that the withdrawal doesn't have the same kind of depression aspect as real withdrawal from stronger opies. But the restless leg thing is appalling with kratom specifically. I've never been able to overcome that symptom as it's hellish and I always end up caving in and just going back to my routine doses. I'm not sure how dependent the brain becomes with kratom in terms of the natural endorphin system--probably not as much as real opiates, but the brain doesn't seem to be as dependent on kratom for mood stability as it does for other opiates. I am planning to get off kratom entirely this summer. It's going to be quite the ride after 2 years of daily use.

 

[Painful One]

Guys,

I think I took too much of the Kratom.
I am really dizzy.
When will this pass?
Is there anything I can do to tone it down?

I got in some of the extract kind today and I underestimated the amount needed.

Thank you!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I got a bit dizzy on my 18th gram last night. I just turned the lights off and laid down. Had some pretty euphoric thoughts and the nausea passed in about 30 minutes.

 

[Painful One]

I got a bit dizzy on my 18th gram last night. I just turned the lights off and laid down. Had some pretty euphoric thoughts and the nausea passed in about 30 minutes.

Thanks Bro!
I will do that.
Listen to some music and maybe take a nap.

I got some of the extract kind in and it is potent!

 

[aspiringchemist]

Painful One - I find ondansetron (zofran) incredibly helpful for kratom nausea. If you can access that, I'd go for it. Rx only but most docs seem ok with prescribing it; especially as an adjunct to opioids.

Dizinnes definitely can occur when too much is ingested; especially if on top of morphine (if that was taken as well). As Madness said, laying down tends to help. Most of the usual tricks for opioid nausea tend to help. Though ondansetron knocks it out completely for me. I've experimented on myself with and without ondansetron and at doses of 15+ grams T&W I would vomit at 30 minutes post ingestion every time.

I have found making tea to be less nausea inducing and easier on the bowels. I welcome the constipating effects but at the amount I take daily it's a lot of plant material to stuff through there... magnesium citrate for the win!

I love some good extract!!! Hard to come by a reliably potent product but I've found 1 or 2.

 

[aspiringchemist]

GMOTC - if you're jumping from oxycodone to kratom or any opioid to kratom, you're essentially continuing to ingest an opioid and skirt withdrawal a major degree. It would reason that then ceasing kratom would produce stronger withdrawal symptoms than someone who didn't stay plugged in to one opioid or another prior to kratom.

Also, I feel your pain on the use of kratom in public. I dont leave the house without my next dose ever and haven't in years. I toss n wash in public restroom stalls every day with a bottle of water. It surely sucks; the short half life and duration of effects are one of the reasons I would choose to be on a maintenance opioid (for my chronic pain and autoimmune condition). I know the option is there and I used to, but around my parts that doesnt happen anymore without regular urine drug testing and judgement from doctors... just not willing to do it right now.

I can say that at my 50g/day, as well as frequent use of UEI, Gold Reserve and other isolated extracts that the withdrawal is very real and very uncomfortable imo. There's many more active compounds within kratom than just mu receptor agonists like traditional opioids. This likely has something to do with the different withdrawal experience.

I was guilty of derailing the thread! Hope that didn't come across as judgmental.

Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss things further!

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

GMOTC - if you're jumping from oxycodone to kratom or any opioid to kratom, you're essentially continuing to ingest an opioid and skirt withdrawal a major degree. It would reason that then ceasing kratom would produce stronger withdrawal symptoms than someone who didn't stay plugged in to one opioid or another prior to kratom.

Also, I feel your pain on the use of kratom in public. I dont leave the house without my next dose ever and haven't in years. I toss n wash in public restroom stalls every day with a bottle of water. It surely sucks; the short half life and duration of effects are one of the reasons I would choose to be on a maintenance opioid (for my chronic pain and autoimmune condition). I know the option is there and I used to, but around my parts that doesnt happen anymore without regular urine drug testing and judgement from doctors... just not willing to do it right now.

I can say that at my 50g/day, as well as frequent use of UEI, Gold Reserve and other isolated extracts that the withdrawal is very real and very uncomfortable imo. There's many more active compounds within kratom than just mu receptor agonists like traditional opioids. This likely has something to do with the different withdrawal experience.

I was guilty of derailing the thread! Hope that didn't come across as judgmental.

Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss things further!

Oh no I totally agree with you that I'm putting a bandaid on a problem that should be fixed to begin with. When I started taking kratom daily it was in an attempt to get off of a much worse monstrous addiction that was beginning to take way too much out of me. I don't think that you've derailed the thread bc kratom is an underdiscussed/underappreciate substance. It's a viable way to quit harder opies and a safer alternative objectively as far as we know at the moment. However, I'd rather be hooked on kratom than something that burns you out and devastates you with the potential of withdrawal/steals your natural endorphins completely. Not too many people actually know what kratom is and it's important to negate misinformation about the substance and it's "harmful effects." It's just not comparable to morphine/heroin in potency nor side effects. Kratom withdrawal is less mentally catastrophic personally but it's bad enough to lock you into taking more (like real opiates). But again, I'm grateful I made the switch a year and a half ago.

I am actually planning to quit kratom late spring/before this summer as I will be traveling quite a bit and it's just not feasible to be a daily user at that point. It's also not fun to wake up in the morning and have to take an unpleasant green powder that occasionally causes diziness/nausea lol. Also, I have to say that after a year of use it is losing it's magical charm that elevates your mood.. like any perpetual use of a substance you eventually reach a point where the benefit is lost in my opinion. Not too many addictions are feasible for long-term use it seems.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Just purchased the MIT 45 tincture; the black 15ml bottle, 45% mitragynine extract supposedly. It certainly smells like other strong mitragynine extracts I've had.

Just took about 5ml with 7g white Borneo. Tongue instantly numbed in a similar way to cocaine. So far so good!

I'll likely polish off the rest this evening with some bali tea and diazepam. For now, gotta study!

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Just purchased the MIT 45 tincture; the black 15ml bottle, 45% mitragynine extract supposedly. It certainly smells like other strong mitragynine extracts I've had.

Just took about 5ml with 7g white Borneo. Tongue instantly numbed in a similar way to cocaine. So far so good!

I'll likely polish off the rest this evening with some bali tea and diazepam. For now, gotta study!

What do you think of the kratom liquid shots out there? I've tried the OPMS one and a different standard kind, but they just make me sleepy and I see no benefit over the powder.

 

[aspiringchemist]

What do you think of the kratom liquid shots out there? I've tried the OPMS one and a different standard kind, but they just make me sleepy and I see no benefit over the powder.

My bad not responding to your last post. I absolutely agree that there is way too much misinformation being spread about kratom and it is most definitely a sustainable approach in line with harm reduction to treating opioid addiction.

I have only tried OPMS and MIT-45. I still have the K-shot but I'm a little scared to take it as there's almost no info online.

I'm not a fan of the OPMS liquid shot. I think I commented on it earlier in this thread. Definitely was not too impressed as compared to their gold capsules.

I actually like this MIT-45 quite a bit. It's spendy (along the lines of OPMS) for one 15ml vial. Instead of downing the whole thing I've been using a dropper and taking 4-5 droppers full via sublingual route on top of my usual tea dose of ~18g in the evening.

Serious numbing activity in the mouth almost instantaneously, which indicates potency. All in all, just like OPMS, it's not necessarily sustainable to take daily, financially speaking. But as a treat or the way I've been using it on top of normal doses is nice.

I picked up a 3 pack of OPMS gold and the MIT 45 shot as I'm waiting for my next order of extract to arrive in the mail.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

My bad not responding to your last post. I absolutely agree that there is way too much misinformation being spread about kratom and it is most definitely a sustainable approach in line with harm reduction to treating opioid addiction.

I have only tried OPMS and MIT-45. I still have the K-shot but I'm a little scared to take it as there's almost no info online.

I'm not a fan of the OPMS liquid shot. I think I commented on it earlier in this thread. Definitely was not too impressed as compared to their gold capsules.

I actually like this MIT-45 quite a bit. It's spendy (along the lines of OPMS) for one 15ml vial. Instead of downing the whole thing I've been using a dropper and taking 4-5 droppers full via sublingual route on top of my usual tea dose of ~18g in the evening.

Serious numbing activity in the mouth almost instantaneously, which indicates potency. All in all, just like OPMS, it's not necessarily sustainable to take daily, financially speaking. But as a treat or the way I've been using it on top of normal doses is nice.

I picked up a 3 pack of OPMS gold and the MIT 45 shot as I'm waiting for my next order of extract to arrive in the mail.

Hmm I have to try the other ones. The OPMS pills are definitely otherworldly haha. The first time I took 3 thinking they were only so-and-so grams which was such a small amount of powder, and I had to lie down for a couple of hours because I was railed. I try to avoid OPMS pills on a regular basis bc they make your tolerance sky-rocket to kratom in general and they also lose their euphoria pretty quickly if you use them days in a row. But they imo are the best kratom product on the market rn. The fact that it's so little powder makes there barely be any nausea or dizziness involved.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Hmm I have to try the other ones. The OPMS pills are definitely otherworldly haha. The first time I took 3 thinking they were only so-and-so grams which was such a small amount of powder, and I had to lie down for a couple of hours because I was railed. I try to avoid OPMS pills on a regular basis bc they make your tolerance sky-rocket to kratom in general and they also lose their euphoria pretty quickly if you use them days in a row. But they imo are the best kratom product on the market rn. The fact that it's so little powder makes there barely be any nausea or dizziness involved.

30 minutes ago I poured the last half of the MIT 45 vial (~7ml) into a shot glass and threw it back with tea made from 15g red Borneo. The day's prescribed vyvanse is wearing off. So far it is most definitely strong.


Update: really liked the MIT45 shot. So much so that I just got another

Along with the tea, it produced a nice clean opioid euphoria starting at about 20 minutes and carried on until I passed out like 4 hours later.

I picked up a 2 pack of OPMS gold also and it's the old packaging! States 60mg mitragynine and 2.79mg 7-OH present per capsule. Idk about everyone else, but in the city where I live it seems all the stores have the newer labeled packaging which states 84mg mitragynine and .01mg 7-OH per capsule. Despite the fact that I've posted pics before, I cannot seem to get it to work right now.

Looking forward to trying these as I've only ever had the newer ones.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I don't know. Kratom has never done much for me. Always nauseated/weird stomach feelings, I assume from digesting plant matter like that, with barely any opiate effects.
I prefer traditional opiates and semi-synthetics, but I do agree it's about time we got some new maintenance options other than buprenorphine or methadone.

 

[flack219]

Recently coming off a 7 month suboxone addiction. The first 3 days nothing will help the withdrawal. After that about 40 grams a day of white Maeng da would atleast keep me feeling normal and without withdrawal but no noticeable opioid like high I use to get with kratom years ago. Today I did 10 grams red Maeng da, 5 grams trainwreck and a half mit 45 and I actually feel quite pleasant. Comparable to a newbie on a 7.5 Loratab. I know that doesn't sound like much but after so long of taking everything to just not be sick the slight buzz is actually really nice

 

[Xorkoth]

Guys,

I think I took too much of the Kratom.
I am really dizzy.
When will this pass?
Is there anything I can do to tone it down?

I got in some of the extract kind today and I underestimated the amount needed.

Thank you!

Way late for this, but the best thing you can do is lay down and close your eyes. Listen to some music. If this ever happens (and it will if you use kratom enough), that's the cure. Smoking weed will synergize really well, too, if you like weed, and will also make laying down with your eyes closed and music much more enjoyable. back in the day I used to take really big doses of kratom and once the dizziness set in, I'd smoke weed and lay down and listen to music, it was just part of the experience for me.