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Harm Reduction Mitragyna speciosa (kratom)

aspiringchemist said:
You know, I've always read that long term kratom users (in Thailand) develop darkening of facial skin pigment with heavy use. I've been using kratom in 30 - 50g doses per day consistently for like 4ish years (cant remember exactly when I started). I have not experienced any pigment darkening or skin issues of any kind. I really haven't had any extreme negative responses, other than typical side effects. Just my experience.

Speaking of "Black Face", Turbo Negro is the shit! 🤘

As an anecdote, as I've posted a lot recently, I've been using kratom since ~ 2014. I started using it to replace opioids from pain management; but I was not physiologically dependent on opioids at the time (Rx was PRN). I have been heavily dependent on heroin, morphine, methadone, hydro/oxy, codeine etc many times like 10 years prior, just not when I made the switch to kratom.

I sure as hell hope skin issues don't develop. I also worry about testosterone and thyroid issues, though haven't experienced them at all (30 y/o Male). Had routine medical blood work done 4 months ago with primary care provider and all was wnl.

Though, I personally would choose methadone or buprenorphine maintenance therapy over kratom use at this point; I posted my reasoning earlier in this thread. I know that is not a popular opinion, but that is how I feel. I am really physiologically dependent on kratom. Serious and heavy withdrawl develops within 24 hours of discontinuation. Having gone through a myriad of opioid withdrawal situations in the past (as stated above), I can say for me, the discontinuation syndrome from kratom is similar to natural and synthetic opioids.
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Hehe, damn ~2 oz doses? I thought I was being excessive with my rounded tablespoon doses last month! Now I'm back to a teaspoon or two twice a day. Wow, your drug experience mirrors mine greatly. I too prefer bupe over Kratom. I put methadone out of my mind on purpose after being switched from that to bupe, but golly, I sure liked it.
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Can someone answer this for me?

Some people are like, "I take 20 grams of kratom 5 times a day." How on earth does one eat an entire bag of the disgusting tasting powder 5 times a day? There must be an alternative method to consuming it. Two spoon-fulls make me gag every single time and it's been a year now of adjusting to the taste. The taste still makes me want to not live anymore :(
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Well, maybe this will help. Put the medium/small gulp of water in your mouth first, and then, with your head tilted back you toss the teaspoon (or maybe a tablespoon once you're good at the method) into your mouth and gulp the mix. I rarely taste the kratom very much using this method.
CoastTwoCoast said:
Someone above mentioned darkening of skin from kratom, I have never had that ever.
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Lol, I do believe we will get this shitty effect after a decade or two of use. Remember, the anecdotal reports of this blackface shit comes from these old guys who chewed the leaf their whole life. :)
 
You clearly don't have an aversion to it, not yet anyway.

It's not like that at first with certain substances, but the more you taste it, aversion happens. Then just the thought of tasting it makes me want to puke.
I think that's only happened with kratom and kava...oh and certain liquor.

I've never come across weird stuff in my kratom ever. I only deal with powder though and I can see for myself that nothing strange is in it. I make the caps myself. Kratom capsules are a rip-off. They're basically jacking up the price for people who are too lazy to make their own capsules. You can get a ton of powder and save a huge amount of money.
 
I've had batches of kratom that felt just as strong as oxy as if not stronger.

I think the majority of batches are garbage but occasionally some bags can whoop you on your ass lol. People think it's an incredibly weak opiate but sometimes it's a real drug.
 
for me i have a Starbucks empty class the one u get at gas stations ect. with a cap, fill 3quarters milk and put 3-6 t spoons in put cap on and shake the shit out of it, wait 10 15 min shake and pound, usually have a piece of banana for a chaser after I chug,
 
aspiringchemist said:
So I just picked up my first bottle of OPMS liquid extract (8.8ml). I'll post pics. Am I crazy or is the label stating that there is 118mg of 7-Hydroxymitragynine present per bottle?

Never mind! I'm dumb lol. I see now that its 118mg mitragynine and 0.01mg 7-HO.

View attachment 19140

UPDATE:
just brewed tea with 16.5g red sumatra and consumed alongside the OPMS shot. I actually poured the OPMS into a shot glass to see it. Holy shit that is some foul tasting stuff! The residual rum-like alcohol aftertaste makes it just that much worse than kratom tea lol. I'm a serious alcoholic and no longer drink alcohol; been like 1.5 years since my last drink. Alcohol just went on top of all the rest so it's not like I became a polysubstance user when I quit drinking; I was there long before. But I'm not concerned with ingesting small amoints of alcohol as is present in tinctures or cough medicines. Wild Turkey was my go-to.

The shop sells the 8.8ml tincture for the same price as a 2 pack of OPMS gold capsules. Though, according to the new packaging of each, there is only 118mg mitragynine in the entire tincture and 84mg mitragynine in each capsule, thus 2 capsules is 168mg mitragynine.
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I have this right now and i'm considering taking it but i can't figure out if i want to cause i don't know how much i should take or how it will feel.

How much of it did you take, how did you feel and how many grams would you say it amounts to?

Like, my doses are about 12.25 grams of ground leaf, regardless of strain, so should i drink the whole thing in one shot?

How strong is it, and do you think it will significantly increase my tolerance or rather, make withdrawal effects worse?

Cause i'm about to start taking a very long break from kratom in a few days and if it's an extract i'm guessing it could, but if it's really good i'll probably take it anyway lol.
 
^ One shot is plenty enough. Taking tea along with it is overkill. No wonder you felt so sick. You only need one shot. @Mycophile Drink the whole bottle. It does increase tolerance. That's why shots are good once in a while, not often.

I'm going to Wild Bill's Tobacco tomorrow to stack up on some shots and kratom since I only have cash. Or else I would've ordered online if the money was in my account. It'll be quicker to go pick it up anyway.
 
Xorkoth said:
For real? Suicidal? Geez, it's just a taste. I don't think it tastes that bad, but even if something tastes awful, it's just a sensation. FYI, peanut butter basically washes all other lingering tastes out of your mouth.
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Totally exaggerating sorry :) The taste is was definitely very hard to manage. Either they've done a better job with improving the taste lately or I've gotten better at handling--either or. I don't gag like I used to anymore.
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Totally exaggerating sorry :) The taste is was definitely very hard to manage. Either they've done a better job with improving the taste lately or I've gotten better at handling--either or. I don't gag like I used to anymore.
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It just gets easier with time. You learn tricks to not experience the taste so much. Capsules are a way around this but for me, I would have to be stuffing capsules full time to keep up with my habit.
 
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CoastTwoCoast said:
That's cool you prefer the capsules. I prefer the shots. I haven't bought OPMS in forever. The high cost always turns me away.
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It's incredible for someone with such low tolerance to any kratom and etc., but even so the magic in the beginning decays very quickly (about 3-4 days if you swallow them daily). It's not worth the cost for other than on occasion and also the wd is actually much more intense than just regular powder.
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
It's incredible for someone with such low tolerance to any kratom and etc., but even so the magic in the beginning decays very quickly (about 3-4 days if you swallow them daily). It's not worth the cost for other than on occasion and also the wd is actually much more intense than just regular powder.
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Some people are addicted to OPMS shots, that's all they buy every month, even for years and they suffer in the end. I wish they would give me the money they spend on that shit. I'd be rich. You're right, it's only something to do on occasion. It raises your tolerance sky high. Powder is better in the long run.
 
CoastTwoCoast said:
Some people are addicted to OPMS shots, that's all they buy every month, even for years and they suffer in the end. I wish they would give me the money they spend on that shit. I'd be rich. You're right, it's only something to do on occasion. It raises your tolerance sky high. Powder is better in the long run.
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Are you talking about the liquid shots? I actually tried those the other day.. not too impressed as it simply made me sleepy. Two of the gold OPMS pills are a pretty impressive high for something legal--as in a 20mg percocet in effect just about.

The kratom powder itself is the best in my opinion. I've gotten highs that were just as strong as oxy (if not stronger), and sometimes a bit more euphoric. There's just something about kratom where even if the high does materialize quite well that it's still lacking the endorphin-replacing, toxic life-consuming quality to it. However, kratom is still really good. It does have a great pain-killer property to it and it's less abuse-friendly due to the high dose nausea and dizziness property. Without kratom--I can't imagine what my adderall crashes would have been like in the past lol! Oxy covers up the stimulant crash quite well, but I'm trying to do it less often if even at all for the sake of my entire future and soul. In a fantasy world I have unlimited opiates and go about my day as a still functional human being. But there's imagination and there's reality. I'm pretty sure anyone who has dabbled in opiates wished it would rain opioids from the sky. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Are you talking about the liquid shots? I actually tried those the other day.. not too impressed as it simply made me sleepy. Two of the gold OPMS pills are a pretty impressive high for something legal--as in a 20mg percocet in effect just about.

The kratom powder itself is the best in my opinion. I've gotten highs that were just as strong as oxy (if not stronger), and sometimes a bit more euphoric. There's just something about kratom where even if the high does materialize quite well that it's still lacking the endorphin-replacing, toxic life-consuming quality to it. However, kratom is still really good. It does have a great pain-killer property to it and it's less abuse-friendly due to the high dose nausea and dizziness property. Without kratom--I can't imagine what my adderall crashes would have been like in the past lol! Oxy covers up the stimulant crash quite well, but I'm trying to do it less often if even at all for the sake of my entire future and soul.
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Gabapentin works well for stimulant crashes too! Yeah I was talking about the OPMS liquid shots. They make me feel higher than powder ever could. It feels super euphoric to me, floating on cloud 9. Powder is better in the long run though. I've tried the capsules before, they're not bad. I just always lean towards the liquid shots. The price is ridiculous though.
 
CoastTwoCoast said:
Gabapentin works well for stimulant crashes too! Yeah I was talking about the OPMS liquid shots. They make me feel higher than powder ever could. It feels super euphoric to me. Powder is better in the long run though. I've tried the capsules before, they're not bad. I just always lean towards the liquid shots. The price is ridiculous though.
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The price IS ridiculous. You might as well find a back ally oxy source than to be hooked on the liquid shots for real. Do you do only one liquid shot?
 
CoastTwoCoast said:
Usually one liquid shot is plenty. I haven't bought any in forever though due to the price. I feel like an idiot spending that much and that doesn't even include shipping.
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Eh I know of the hype surrounding the liquid shots and I was curious one time. The high lasted quite a long time but it felt like a sedating version of the gold pills. I remember the first time I took the gold pills I was like, "Oh there's only .5 grams of kratom?" Took 4 at once and was so unbelievably ripped for hours I was wondering if they could be dangerous lol!
 
GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
Eh I know of the hype surrounding the liquid shots and I was curious one time. The high lasted quite a long time but it felt like a sedating version of the gold pills. I remember the first time I took the gold pills I was like, "Oh there's only .5 grams of kratom?" Took 4 at once and was so unbelievably ripped for hours I was wondering if they could be dangerous lol!
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Beginners should only start with 1 OPMS pill and work their way up. There's nothing worst than the nausea that comes with taking too many of those. Just the thought makes me sick.
 
Today, I get to go to Wild Bill's and shop for some kray kray. Wild Bill's is expensive compared to online, but it's my only option right now. I'll probably get some powder (since that's cheaper than capsules) and a shot. There's a shot there that's actually good, kinda comparable to OPMS, but I forgot the name.
 
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