• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

MDPV - So how dangerous is it?

and then they made it quickly illegal

Haha, I wouldn't say "quickly". People who knew about it were using it for years legally. Even when it hit mainstream, it took them almost a year to get it illegalized...

Not that it's a big loss, PV is nothing special really, just another stimulant.

It is not like amphetamines etc. that are kinda safe to use sometimes this stuff can put you in psychosis from the first use.

Enough with the fearmongering. I'm sorry for your loss, but if you or your friends can't use their drugs responsibly it's not the drug's fault... MDPV is just a stimulant like any other, only it's an extremely potent one so if you want to blame someone, blame those idiots who cut it and sell it as amphetamine... 8)

Any substance can kill you, even water, if you use it irresponsibly. At least MDPV won't make your fingers turn blue like mephedrone...
 
Enough with the fearmongering. I'm sorry for your loss, but if you or your friends can't use their drugs responsibly it's not the drug's fault... MDPV is just a stimulant like any other, only it's an extremely potent one so if you want to blame someone, blame those idiots who cut it and sell it as amphetamine... 8)

Any substance can kill you, even water, if you use it irresponsibly. At least MDPV won't make your fingers turn blue like mephedrone...

Absolutely!!! I wish more people could understand this.

BTW, there's an mdpv thread in european & african forum that badly needs expert input from a chemist! Hope someone from ADD can help:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627
 
Hello, ADD.

Despite I didn't read this thread, I will write this post. And sorry for my english, I am not a native speaker.

I am anxious how dangerous may be heavy MDPV abuse but for a short period of time.
Let me tell my short story. 1.5 years ago I got my first MDPV batch - 1 gram. I am quite sensitive to all drugs, and especially to stimulants, so I used it for the whole month. I dosed multiple times per day(and night), and my sleep-awake cycle was completely broken. I stayed awake for 36-48-60 hours then slept for 12-16 hours. Most of the time I studied math. Ok, eventually I finished my batch. It wasn't a big problem for me, and I didn't use any drug until I ordered another gram of MDPV. This gram was spent within 2 months, first 3 weeks was the weeks of most heavy abuse. I really regret that I didn't ordered a psychedelic instead of this gram. I have to admit, MDPV caused certain negative effects, I became realy, really irritable, somewhat depressed, very anxious, and my circadian rhytm was far from normal.
6 months passed and - guess what - I ordered 1 g of MDPV(and 1 g of 3-FMC). I overused it again, but not so hard, so I think it didn't give significant impact to my health. I note in parenthesis that I still have ~400-500 mg of MDPV and ~150 mg of 3-FMC, and I didn't use it for 4 months.

The only thing I thank MDPV - it improves my english :) And maybe I am now more or less immune to stimulant abuse.

Well, time is the best cure(and I also took some nootropics :) ). Now I feel much better, no significant anxiety, no real depression, and I am quite calm. In this sense, I am really similar to who I was 2 years ago. But. I feel like my cognitive abilities worsened. It is quite hard to describe. It seems that I solved problems faster and better 2.5 years ago. It also seems that I could understand whole concepts and abstract things better. So, my question, to what degree can it be related to my MPDV use?
 
hi

Hi, I'm a semester away from a BS in chemistry and have binged on this drug about 5 times in the past 3 weeks.

I've noticed a lot of flawed logic on this board with regards to this drug. This is a pro-drug message board, most of the people on here use these drugs or have used them or are looking for a reason to use them. Just like I would not go on a government sponsored message board to learn about drugs. There is spin on both sides.

To the people who spout off nomenclature, functional groups, mechanisms, and google.com scientific research studies to get people to "trust" them, come on. I've been apart of several scientific studies on the effects of VOCs in marine vs freshwater sediment. We came to two different conclusions in two different studies and they were both accepted into the same scientific journal. The conclusion we came to that agreed with the popular or accepted opinion on the subject was quoted in papers 20x more than the one that proved it wrong even though people did the same study and arrived at the same conclusion we did.

People are just looking for easy answers, to say that because a study in scientific journal states something is the holy gospel is extremely reckless and naive. It's essentially bandwagon science picking and choosing studies that fit what you believe to be true and ignoring the rest.

I'm even afraid to ask if the people who post on this board have any formal chemical expertise in the first place with comments like this:

"sex releases dopamine and is not neurotoxic and MDPV is a dopamine reputake inhibitor so it cant cause any neurotoxicity" that statement is ludicrous and it saddens me that some of the members of this board take that as fact since it backs the claim that MVDP is the best stimulate yet.

Also to the person that said "mdpv is the most benign derivate of pyrovalerone so these research labs are looking out for us whereas the dealers only cared about profit pushing mephedrone"

Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases. Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.

Easy to understand example: DXM is more benign compared to PCP in the dissociative class therefore the research labs are looking out for us.

I have no agenda, I've done a ton of drugs and figured I'd give this one a shot as well. All I'm saying is do not take anything said on here as fact because we have no idea what the consequences of this drug will be in the future, hear all sides of the argument and try to make a rational decision based on the evidence, knowledge, and intellect you have.

Please just think twice about using this drug habitually. In my opinion this is an evil drug with significant consequences and I have spent years using drugs with absolutely no regret and still use certain drugs moderately to this day.

Thank you for your time.
 
Hey chemist2010, good post. Hey I wonder if you'd be able to shed any light on the "tan MDPV" mystery. There's a guy who's figured out how to change white into tan MDPV by trial and error, but we really need someone with chemical knowledge to explain what's actually going on. The thread is here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=541627

Hope someone knowledgeable can help. Thanks
 
chemist2010 said:
This is a pro-drug message board

No. This is a harm-reduction site.

I'm even afraid to ask if the people who post on this board have any formal chemical expertise in the first place with comments like this:

"sex releases dopamine and is not neurotoxic and MDPV is a dopamine reputake inhibitor so it cant cause any neurotoxicity" that statement is ludicrous and it saddens me that some of the members of this board take that as fact since it backs the claim that MVDP is the best stimulate yet.

Obviously, you can tell that people spouting comments like that do not have any kind of expertise - chemistry or otherwise. You shouldn't judge the whole board based on comments like that though. Anyone - like yourself - is free to register and post here, but there are also many regulars who have been here longer who have lots of knowledge and/or expertise on chemistry and pharmacology. You can usually tell by their posts.

Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases. Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.

Can you provide some evidence of this "nastyness" inherent to pyrovalerones? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen such evidence myself, so I'd be interested in learning more on the subject.

Please just think twice about using this drug habitually. In my opinion this is an evil drug with significant consequences and I have spent years using drugs with absolutely no regret and still use certain drugs moderately to this day.

A drug is not "evil" or "good". You cannot attribute moral attributes on a chemical substance. That's just absurd if you think about it. It's all about how a substance is used.

Of course, any drug has consequences, and neurotoxic stimulants are far from safe. But demonizing them will not help, as long as there are people who will use them, the better approach by far is informing them of how to use these substances responsibly, and how to seek help when/if their usage becomes a problem.
 
hey

Obviously, you can tell that people spouting comments like that do not have any kind of expertise - chemistry or otherwise. You shouldn't judge the whole board based on comments like that though. Anyone - like yourself - is free to register and post here, but there are also many regulars who have been here longer who have lots of knowledge and/or expertise on chemistry and pharmacology. You can usually tell by their posts.

Yes I know I can, but I worry people with less education or a different educational background put scientists on a pedestal with the fancy rhetoric. I say this because I know I did before and I know how people treat me with far less or noknowledge of chemistry. The average person thinks "oh he's a scientist, he/she must know what they're talking about." And they act like I am a God. These "experts" are only applying the basic knowledge on chemical properties, functional groups, mechanisms that humans have achieved thus far (when was the first synthesis? 1910?) and it is only scratching the surface
of what we have to learn to master the science.

Yes, Dread we understand the basic mechanism of MDPV but that's about it. There are many other factors - environment, genetics, drug combination, drug history, etc etc etc that must be taken into account and frankly we aren't even close to being able to give an accurate prediction to market it to the average consumer.

All us "scientists" can do is take our basic knowledge from college, gradschool and apply it; and the funny thing is that more often than not the prediction we have based on our knowledge and education of various reactions/neurotoxicity/chemical properties of various substances is far different than the actual result when studied --- thats what makes science so exciting. We learn new things everyday.

That's why you see drugs getting recalled left and right for causing a rare form of cancer, infertility, permanent damage to the human body...and a lot of these drugs have only been on the market for less than a decade. Wonder why we couldn't predict this any sooner with our knowledge of drug chemistry and research studies? Instead we had to wait for empirical evidence to realize "this drug is dangerous regardless of dosage."

you provide some evidence of this "nastyness" inherent to pyrovalerones? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen such evidence myself, so I'd be interested in learning more on the subject.

Just search online and it's pretty straight forward-- this class of drug is hardly ever used and only in a few select countries across the globe. If it is really important to you when I get back from vacation break I'll head to the library and dig up some studies.

drug is not "evil" or "good". You cannot attribute moral attributes on a chemical substance. That's just absurd if you think about it. It's all about how a substance is used.

I'm not into philosophy or arguing semantics. Yeah I mean that's a true statement but not practical. To argue that methamphetamine should be legalized and readily available dirt cheap and then chastise the human population for not using the substance "responsibly"is ridiculous. Sure it can be done, but at the expense of the rest of us with stress, addictive personalities, positive reinforcement with drug being legal, increased use popularizing it...come on man. Anyone can struggle with drug addiction regardless of intellect or job status.

The best analogy I can think of would be giving a man who has had little to no money a million dollars and then expecting him to spend it responsibly. And when he spends it all within 3 months and is back to being dirt poor you would wag your finger? It's human nature, and I'd argue you've had struggles with substances over the years and have finally learned to cope with tolerance but a lot of us are not as experienced or as lucky.

Of course, any drug has consequences, and neurotoxic stimulants are far from safe. But demonizing them will not help, as long as there are people who will use them, the better approach by far is informing them of how to use these substances responsibly, and how to seek help when/if their usage becomes a problem.

Yeah of course people will use them but at least they won't be mislead with these fantasy stories of "I've used peevee since 2004 and I'm fine, this is safe" ....wasn't that the guy who left the board because he lost his wife, had an extended stay at a psychiatric institution, and has decided he's done with using substances because his life has hit rock bottom?

And this guy was a moderator on the advanced drug discussion board? I'm not sure a person with that many problems is a person I would want to take advice from on using substances, especially MDPV "responsibly" from. In fact any drug he used "responsibly" I'd be wary of.

I'd just like to know the personal achievements, self-worth and overall quality of life of the people who advocate using this drug "responsibly" habitually and make the assessment myself instead of these blind statements "any drug can be used responsibly" when the person saying this behind a computer screen could be some homeless guy with nothing to live for.

I have no idea if all of this happened because of MDPV or a combination of factors, and to the people who are abusing drugs simply to abuse drugs to escape life problems, have many personal issues, and/ or low self-esteem that's fine. I'm just worried about the people with bright futures who think this drug is like pot or doing a couple lines of cocaine and end up completely mislead.

Thank you for your time.
 
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I really like your viewpoint chemist. I am extremely experienced with MDPV in every which way you can think of besides IV or rectal. I will be making a post in the Other Drugs forum shortly that will illuminate my experiences with this compound. Please read it and know that I have no personal agenda, but I've had A+ experiences with PV and terrible nightmarish experiences. Highly dose dependent, binge dependent, and sleep deprivation/food deprivation dependent. We should probably discuss the nightmare episodes first.

My personal nightmare episode was due to a weeklong binge of MDPV, using all three ROA with about 24 hours of sleep throughout the week. At the end of the week I began experiencing paranoid delusions (thoughts and conclusions with no rational basis) and auditory hallucinations. These went away in about 2 days. Doesnt sound so bad you say? Read on...

My ex gf, highly experienced with coke, ended up doing about 100mg of MDPV over the span of about 8 hours. She went into full-blown psychosis, experiencing delusions, as well as auditory and visual hallucinations. First she thought I had sex with her dog, then she believed a number of people were stalking us at night around her house. I've never seen someone so paranoid and delusional on any other drug. DONT TAKE LARGE DOSES.

I have been using MDPV for the past 2 years on and off; and I would never ever deem this drug "safe" at all. Its probably safer to snort coke to be honest, especially if you're not experienced with stims, especially very powerful ones like this one. This drug DOES border on the verge of evil, although people with high self control should be fine as long as they resist the urge to redose.

I'd say the largest dose I ever took orally at one time to be ~40mg, insufflated ~20mg, and smoked (Salt) 30mg. The effects and duration are quite different initially depending on ROA, but eventually a "typical" MDPV high will kick in. Some people consider this the peak, but I consider it the beginning of the plateau because this is when i first notice the inclination to do more. Oral MDPV plateaus around 1-1.5 hours, insufflated 1 hour, smoked 45 minutes. This is a critical time as this is when you are most likely to redose.

PLEASE be careful with this RC. It is serious business and can ruin your life and relationships if youre not careful, not to mention your psychological health. Deuces.
 
Yeah of course people will use them but at least they won't be mislead with these fantasy stories of "I've used peevee since 2004 and I'm fine, this is safe" ....wasn't that the guy who left the board because he lost his wife, had an extended stay at a psychiatric institution, and has decided he's done with using substances because his life has hit rock bottom?

And this guy was a moderator on the advanced drug discussion board? I'm not sure a person with that many problems is a person I would want to take advice from on using substances, especially MDPV "responsibly" from. In fact any drug he used "responsibly" I'd be wary of.

I'd just like to know the personal achievements, self-worth and overall quality of life of the people who advocate using this drug "responsibly" habitually and make the assessment myself instead of these blind statements "any drug can be used responsibly" when the person saying this behind a computer screen could be some homeless guy with nothing to live for.

I have no idea if all of this happened because of MDPV or a combination of factors, and to the people who are abusing drugs simply to abuse drugs to escape life problems, have many personal issues, and/ or low self-esteem that's fine. I'm just worried about the people with bright futures who think this drug is like pot or doing a couple lines of cocaine and end up completely mislead.

Thank you for your time.

Be careful making superior sounding sweeping statements about people you don't know, if you had bothered to do your homework you would know that FnB's recent history had to do with rather excessive use of one particular NMDA antagonist. does fucking up with some drug in this case a pcp derivative, recognising the fuck up and dealing with it disqualify what someone has to say? No of course it doesn't.

MDPV can be used responsibly, just like any drug. it often isn't but that is not the fault of the drug. There are plenty of people on these boards who do use things responsibly, who are cautious and careful, there are always risks in doing anything but if used in moderation most substances will have minimal health consequences. Staying up for days at a time binging on MDPV or desoxypipradrol mephedrone or methamphetamine or whatever stimulant is always going to end badly, it is easy for people to do really dumb things then blame the drug rather than looking towards themselves and their own behaviour.

nobody is suggesting that MDPV or any drug for that matter is safe, the purpose of this board is to discuss the good and the bad aspects of various substances, to try and reduce stupidity and the possible harm from using these substances and yes 100mg of MDPV is stupid when 10-15mg is fully active.

As I understand it MDPV was selected over other pyrovalerones because of the ratio between the effective dose and the lethal dose in rodents combined with its high potency, no other reason. is this a good reason? not really but it is as good a starting point as any.
heavy or repeated use of MDPV is associated with cardiovascular problems, anxiety, paranoia, depression and psychosis but in moderate users there appears to be no significant harm and the substance is on a par with cocaine, is the risk worth the benefits? that is for the individual to decide.

I look and see what people say and I don't take anything at face value, I care not who you are or what you are, just whether your opinions can be justified and fit the available facts.

an aside: it is traditionally regarded that the first organic synthesis was urea by Wöhler in 1828, so you were only 80 years off with your guess of 1910, and a lot of the classic reactions you should have learnt in BSc chem, like for example the Hofmann and Curtius rearrangements, date from 1880's and 90's there is a whole world of chemistry pre 1910 maybe you should go leaf through Chemische Berichte and Annalen der Chemie and change your name to chemist1910, chemist2010 is like sooo last year :\
 
Do you even know the side effects of pyrovalerone? it's a nasty drug class that should be avoided except for extreme cases. Yes I know it is manufactured and administered in special cases but so is virtually any drug out there.

The "obvious" searches don't seem to return much to distinguish the dangers of pyrovalerone from those of any other stimulant so if you have medical documentation of this claim I think a lot of us would appreciate it if you dig it up.

The real answer to the topic question is that nobody knows (though it does seem to be hard to kill yourself outright with MDPV) but I think more people here already understand that than you give credit for.
 
hey

FnB's recent history had to do with rather excessive use of one particular NMDA antagonist. does fucking up with some drug in this case a pcp derivative, recognising the fuck up and dealing with it disqualify what someone has to say? No of course it doesn't.

OK. It doesn't disqualify what he has to say but it makes me think "this person used a particular NMDA antagonist rather excessively and found some way to rationalize as he took the drug over and over, I wonder what else this person would consider doing?"

He might as well huff toluene (paint thinner) excessively for arbitrary reasons.

I argue with myself all day long and throw all the counter arguments I can think of, ruminate over and counter back for hours on end based on the empirical evidence of myself and others. Much like playing chess, I've generally thought of all the counters and various perspectives that people throw at me and formed my beliefs accordingly. I understand people will have different opinions, that's fine just find happiness for yourself. I understand why everyone acts the way they do, why society is the way it is, and I'm not here to try to change any of that directly.

It's pretty rare amongst people I meet in daily life to present novel ideas, that's why I'm obsessed with learning as much as possible about subjects I do not understand (science-our environment) because knowledge is god. To understand as much as possible about this universe. I'm the type of person who can't stop thinking about why things are the way they are objectively, it drives me and keeps me up at night and I will stop at nothing to figure out as much as possible until the day I die.

I understand how people work, I'm not looking for friends on here. I cast my ego aside and make a person feel like a million bucks viewing the situation completely from their perspective when they are of interest to me in everyday life(objective knowledge) conveying palpable sincerity even if it means I have to take myself mentally to a past memory to come across sincere. But I'm not driven to be a businessman.

I don't care about anyones opinions or views, I just want facts...Mixing A and B together makes 60/40 mix C/D. I want no spin, and the guy whos life spiraled out of control has to find some way to rationalize his experience to keep himself out of depression or suicide, frankly I don't have time for the rationalization.

On the whole humans are pretty stupid worrying about stupid mundane shit, I know only a fraction of the population cares but that is more than enough.

You can argue anything, including NMDA antagonists and rationalize the experience. I'd argue if this was presented to the brightest minds around the world they could understand why he chose to use and wouldn't care, just meandering thru life like a vagabond searching for ones own bliss, but they would never mirror the behavior objectively.

People giving these skewed facts based on logic all have reason to skew the logic - to convince onesself that any drug is fine, to convince onesself that no long term harm is being done, to feel like they are not alone. If there's a study that says Drug A does not cause neurotoxicity and another study that says Drug A does...I don't care if 95% of the studies find it doesn't cause neurotoxicity, to then jump to conclude it's fact and brush the other 5% aside as "government propaganda" or whatever excuse is just plain criminal. If I test Drug A and find in 5% of subjects it causes neurotoxicity then I am stating that. People, stop taking scientific studies and facts that only back your opinion...thats just as narrow minded as the people who have the polar opposite view point that you hate so much.

Think about all the scientific studies that were "fact" 50 years ago. They aren't fact anymore. "Facts" are ever-changing.

It's sad but science has become almost as corrupt and subjective as every other aspect of human existence.





an aside: it is traditionally regarded that the first organic synthesis was urea by Wöhler in 1828, so you were only 80 years off with your guess of 1910, and a lot of the classic reactions you should have learnt in BSc chem, like for example the Hofmann and Curtius rearrangements, date from 1880's and 90's there is a whole world of chemistry pre 1910 maybe you should go leaf through Chemische Berichte and Annalen der Chemie and change your name to chemist1910, chemist2010 is like sooo last year :\

You're focusing on a pointless detail. The exact year of the first synthesis is irrelevant, the point was that the first synthesis was a VERY VERY short time ago compared to the existence of man.

I don't pay attention to the years these guys did these synthesis', all I want to know is the acquisition of knowledge from one synthesis to the next, specific processes so I can test it out myself and their rationale to arrive at the discovery in the first place. Building blocks of the synthesis so I can mess around with more complicated processes comparatively speaking. The first synthesis could have taken place in 1975, who cares? As long as the aggregate body of work from 1828-2010 is the same as 1975-2010 it doesn't make a difference.

You spend time memorizing crap for the sake of impressing people? It's about sifting through what's important and what's not.

And the fact that you believe that since I'm a semester away from a BS in chem I should know the specific dates for the synthesis of urea makes me wonder the highest level of education you have acquired?

That's a lower level thought process; the belief that a person with a degree in a subject knows much more than they actually do and inconsequential details at that. The most respected, seasoned MDs and scientists will tell you they hardly know anything at all. They just know more than everyone else -- which isn't much.

Thank you for your time.
 
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Think about all the scientific studies that were "fact" 50 years ago. They aren't fact anymore. "Facts" are ever-changing.

It's sad but science has become almost as corrupt and subjective as every other aspect of human existence.

.

maybe so, but just because some facts have changed doesn't mean you should discount everything you hear because it may change in the future. that would mean you don't believe anything, or that you are only picking out bits and pieces to match what you want to believe which was what you criticised in one of your posts already; but thats what everyone does...

science isn't perfect, but it is relevant
 
maybe so, but just because some facts have changed doesn't mean you should discount everything you hear because it may change in the future. that would mean you don't believe anything, or that you are only picking out bits and pieces to match what you want to believe which was what you criticised in one of your posts already; but thats what everyone does...

science isn't perfect, but it is relevant

Yeah and the reason for this is because people want easy answers. The inability to understand is very unsettling to the human brain. When you think you completely understand a concept it puts your mind at ease and you can move on to the next task at hand.

I'm not saying there aren't obvious trends in science that I agree with, tested and came to exactly the same viewpoint...but to jump to the conclusion of understanding the process completely and thus using the understanding as a predictor of the future is just bullshit and wrong.


Quick example: Scientists believe they have a model for global warming and climate change and can thus predict future of releasing VOCs and NOx into the environment and impact on the planet. This allows politicians and scientists closure, to then figure out what we need to do next to halt the trend and government spending accordingly.

These people think there is a mathematical equation to predict the future. Math can't even predict the pattern of water flowing down a sink correctly.

A couple phds, fellows, and undergrads (myself included) set out to a bunch of different locations around the country to figure out methanogenesis and sulfate reduction concentrations over time at various locations. We then compared to the global climate model prediction. Many values were criminally inconsistent with the model a lot of scientists out their glorify. We publish our findings, approved by committee and entered into scientific journal.

And these people just ignore the findings except for the small percentage of scientists viewing the situation objectively, even though they go to different marine wetlands and freshwater sites and find the same figures we did inconsistent with the global climate model.

Do you want to know their reasoning for disregarding our study and sticking with the common view point?

MONEY...would take hundreds of millions of dollars to put proper funding into global warming, many years, and resources that government simply could not afford to fund.

So we settle on the pretty global climate model that mainstream science agrees upon.

We do this with drugs as well. If it comes to a good enough conclusion given the relatively small amount of time and money spent then we put it on the market knowing we don't understand nearly as much about it as the public thinks.

No need to waste extra money when we can figure out these drugs have permanent side effects empirically, when the public starts having symptoms a decade or two down the road. Then we have to pull the drug off the market for further testing.
 
This is getting more than a little off topic...

We like to avoid this type of thing, as now people are going to have to sort through multiple pages of bullshit and endless debate to find information relevant to the original post.

FnB's personal life, the Global Climate Model, the corruption of modern science, the inability of the human brain to understand, and the countless accusations and arguements have nothing to do with the dangers of MDPV. Start a new thread if those are the topics you would like to discuss.
 
This is getting more than a little off topic...

We like to avoid this type of thing, as now people are going to have to sort through multiple pages of bullshit and endless debate to find information relevant to the original post.

FnB's personal life, the Global Climate Model, the corruption of modern science, the inability of the human brain to understand, and the countless accusations and arguements have nothing to do with the dangers of MDPV. Start a new thread if those are the topics you would like to discuss.

I'm sorry, you're right.

Take home message: Even the most hardcore advocates of MDPV should be skeptical, even if the skepticism is shoved in the darkest, smallest corner of your mind.

And if I added new perspective to just one persons views of science through the eyes of a scientist, I'm a happy man.

Thank you for your time.
 
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Same here and I can be quite anti-social in groups of people. But never had any paranoia but actually alot more social.
 
Same here and I can be quite anti-social in groups of people. But never had any paranoia but actually alot more social.

Hmm. Me thinks maybe you have been doing "the tan" mdpv and not the white stuff? Its reported as carrying far lass paranoia and far greater euphoria.

Or maybe its just affecting you differently. Social anxiety is one thing I have noticed quite prominently with ordinary MDPV.
 
They sell the stuff in a couple of convenient stores on the rough side in my small college town. $5 for 200mg "highly concentrated solution."

The vanilla sky stuff was sandstone/brown.
The ivory wave stuff was white.
The ivory wave ultra stuff was sandstone/brown yet the claim is its "more powerful" than regular ivory wave.

Also the new ivory wave ultra stuff comes wrapped within the package whereas the other stuff was just powder in the package.

Anyone have any idea what's going on? Just same stuff ?
 
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