[LSD Subthread] The Clean vs. Dirty Acid Debate (Part 1 - Archived)

[fastandbulbous]

It degrades to iso-LSD (the bond at position 8 'flips' into a different conformation) and then it doesn't do the magic thing at the 5HT2a receptor

 

[Ismene]

Dunno how accurate this is but it says in "The varieties of psychedelic experience" that only 2 hundredths of a microgram of the LSD actually crosses the blood-brain barrier - so only 3,700,000 LSD molecules are available for contact with 12 billion brain cells and then only for a very few minutes. So the LSD molecules are pulling the trigger for a series of metabolic processes your brain carries out.

So I suppose we need to know whether or not the molecules LSD might degrade to can cross the blood brain barrier and whether they have any effect once they do. Over to you f&b!

 

[killo]

"dirty acid" is absurd.

Acid is acid.

At low doses, and I'm talking below a psychedelic dose(that's weak) you get just stimulation, not really visuals but just "more detailed textures, a mood lift maybe, slight cognitive changes ect". I find low doses of LSD to be enjoyable but and only sucks if you were expecting a "trip/intense experience".

Now as far as "dirty acid". I think people who encounter DOx(DOB, DOC,DOI), which btw has huge dose curves, can often get a phenthylamine trip that feels "kinda acidy" but more dirty feeling. The physical stimulation from DOx's are more speedy feeling than LSD cause more activity on adrenal ect.

Anyway DOx taken at a good dose has good body effects, but I've had doses where I had mild visuals and yet the physical effects were the only thing I can experience/think about and they were unpleasent.

"Dirty feeling acid" is probably not acid, I am almost certain...

Even low doses of lsd feel very clean, maybe slight aches on the back or something but that comes from all psychedelics. But shrooms/LSD at least produce more mild physical effects than amphetamine analogues like DOx ect.(sold as LSD) and other RC's.

 

[Adrenochrome]

acid is more ambiguously defined than LSD, so I'd have to say good acid > bad acid.
But with the caveat lector that: If LSD = A certain compound, then good LSD = bad LSD = LSD.

 

[killo]

I've had trips that were extremely psychedelic with "some" acid-like visuals, but the way I "felt" was dirty and I noticed that I wasn't very attatched from normal perception.

The visual intensity almost had me fooled that I was in a psychedelic state.

Research chemicals can feel very dirty physically and mentally(a cloudy almost neutral state where you don't know what you're supposed to be feeling" despite beautiful visuals or sometimes "light and boring" visuals.

Sigh, I hate how I have to fear getting DOx's over LSD now. IT's been happening alot lately....

 

[SKL]

Research chemicals can feel very dirty physically and mentally(a cloudy almost neutral state where you don't know what you're supposed to be feeling" despite beautiful visuals or sometimes "light and boring" visuals.

Sigh, I hate how I have to fear getting DOx's over LSD now. IT's been happening alot lately....

Definitely. I'd like to say that 99% sure that I never personally experienced but the more I reflect on one particular "acid" trip the more I suspect DOx being sold as LSD but then again one never knows. You really hit the nail on the head with "cloudy almost neutral state where you don't know what you're supposed to be feeling." None of the cosmic beauty of LSD. However, LSD under the right circumstances can produce that same state, so one really does not know. I have never had a phenylethylamine type feeling from LSD nor have I had excessively long LSD trips (although I used to make a common practice of redosing so it could be hard to tell). Anyhoo if I were sold DOx as LSD it would certainly infuriate me ... if I were offered DOx on a blotter under such and such a name, I might very well take it depending on what I had planned for the next couple of days! But selling it as LSD is just fucked.

 

[LoveStopsDeath]

some will argue there has been no "real" lsd-25 since sandoz stopped production in August of 1965 .however there can be ""bad acid"" remember the warnings over the loud speakers at woodstock not to take the "brown acid" lol

 

[Max Power]

some will argue there has been no "real" lsd-25 since sandoz stopped production in August of 1965

I've heard this many times . . . can anyone please clarify?!

 

[psilocybonaut]

I've heard this many times . . . can anyone please clarify?!

It's bullshit. I just took "real" LSD a few days ago (around 1.2mg). That statement is utter bullshit. Maybe there hasn't been 100% pure LSD crystal since then, but people still synth LSD and it is still around, no matter how hard it is to get.

LSD is LSD is LSD. It's SOMEWHAT possible that its degradation ergolines (iso-LSD and lumi-LSD), although inactive on their own, may produce some synergy with LSD, therefore making a "dirtier" feeling. But I highly doubt it.

 

[fastandbulbous]

some will argue there has been no "real" lsd-25 since sandoz stopped production in August of 1965

And they'd be fuckwits. What did they think the whole Operation Julie affair was about in the 70s? Kemp was producing LSD of a quality at least matching Sandoz (it demonstrated profound piezoluminescence, which requires pretty pure LSD to be significant). If there was no LSD since 1965, why would there be people in prison for producing LSD to this very day (and in the UK, you have to be making the stuff to be charged with production - simple intent comes under a conspiracy charge)

so only 3,700,000 LSD molecules are available for contact with 12 billion brain cells and then only for a very few minutes. So the LSD molecules are pulling the trigger for a series of metabolic processes your brain carries out.

That's a oft quoted mistake. LSD has a half life of several hours & not the 20 mins claimed by a researcher in the 60s. The bit about only 2% reaching the brain and causing the effects is very true though as it mailnly tends to accumulate in tissues ither than the brain. It is one scarily potent compound (as can be proved by direct admin into the brain)

 

[JackCrash]

I want somebody here to explain why, at certain levels... a trip is a trip. I've had the same trip on LSD as I've had on Ketamine, Mushrooms, DXM, MDMA, Weed, even drugs that don't make me trip, like coke, and even while being sober.

A trip is a trip, and what a long strange trip it has definitely been.

Dirty acid of clean acid is just people talking trying to desribe what they, subjectively, felt.

I thought it was interesting somebody mentioned "energy" being put in to or absored by acid, the guy who said shrooms grown under stone henge made me really want to try those, haha, or atleast tell everybody thats where I grew my next batch when trying to sell them. Way to go marketing value! I really think it is more of a gimmick, or kind of like a "sentimental" thing.

Mental being the key part of sentimental, by the way.

Either way, the placebo effect is VERY STRONG. Especially when you are trying to take LSD. So definitely keep those people who are saying "dude this blotter tabs bro are mad dirty with strynch nyne and my brothers uncles dad's friend's mom's cousin said the FBI cooks rat poison in to gel tabs and you're gonna die if you take one"... just keep those people the fuck AWAY from you, they are stupid, no good, and a waste of time.

I really don't see how having a few dread locked friends telling you to watch an Osho video and take some LSD that they travelled back in time and got Jesus to put his autograph on the blotters and bless the tabs could hurt though as they blaze up some hydroponic weed and cast reike (spelling?) symbols all over the wall to enhance your trip and give you a more pleasant experience

Its all in your head anyway! So keep the bad stuff out, k? ;D

 

[swilow]

(as can be proved by direct admin into the brain)

Stories??

I remember someone mentioning that they believed LSD was the best example of 'homepathic medicine' in the world. Make of that what you will....

I thought it was interesting somebody mentioned "energy" being put in to or absored by acid, the guy who said shrooms grown under stone henge made me really want to try those, haha, or atleast tell everybody thats where I grew my next batch when trying to sell them. Way to go marketing value! I really think it is more of a gimmick, or kind of like a "sentimental" thing.

Hey I patented the Stonehenge grow site; I expect 33.33333% of all losses please Anyway, don't sell plants dude, give them away.

Mental being the key part of sentimental, by the way.

I guarantee if I was given LSD by Albert Hofmann that he had pruduced in 1958 with his own two hands ad stored in the Fortress of Solitude since then, in a vacuum sealed solid tungsten casket, I would feel 'different' to when I consume 'normal' LSD. The brain is powerful.

Nice post btw mate

 

[JackCrash]

Also.... It's A Baby!

Sorry I forgot to add this... a previous poster said:

"I think one thing that'd be worth investigating is the other byproduct of Ergotamine hydrolysis. For the non-chemistry literate (and I'm not a chemist by any means, I just have a bit of interest in it and knowledge somewhere above a layperson but undoubtedly below a college grad):

Most of the LSD in the US is produced from diverted Ergotamine tartrate (see: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/de...lsd/lsd-5.htm). The molecular diagram of ergotamine looks like this"

there was more that I cut off... anyway...

I read your post that said that. I would like to tell you that...

Ergot, in particular, contains something called lysergamides, of which the main one most people are probably dealing with is ergonovine (which is an ergoline, also known as ergometrine).

Ergonovine has lsd-like effects at much higher doses, but the important thing is, that Lysergic acid is made by alkaline hydrolysis of lysergamides, which also removes ergotoxins.

A rather peculiar process.

How many other people here at this website (of which I've just recently joined) are on the same wave-length with this subject matter?

Cultivation of ergot is much much easier than you may be led to believe through internet texts, pelase stop messing with erogtamine tartate / etc. etc. and all those migrane medications. There are much easier ways, my brothers.

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ Yeah & high doses of the ergoline alkaloids from said purple fungus will cause such dramatic vasoconstriction (acts via the alpha adrenergic receptor) that fingers & toes (& other delicate lottle parts) can die & become necrotic (gangrene). Not the sort of thing you want running through your head when tripping

 

[Ptah]

other delicate little parts

Severe vasoconstriction in the neck will make the head fall off.
A radical improvement for a lot of us, I believe.

 

[swilow]

fingers & toes (& other delicate lottle parts)

Oh well, as long as my manhoods saved

 

[Krowsnose]

I don't like the argument of negative energies affecting the drug. I'm one of the evilest self-serving fucks you'll ever meet but I can still manage to have enjoyable trips on all psychedelics. It's a matter of how you take in your environment. But that karma shit or anything based on your actions themselves, is hogwash. If it wasn't I think LSD would have kicked my ass by now. But of course that's getting into a completely different topic of philosophy/spirituality.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

And they'd be fuckwits. What did they think the whole Operation Julie affair was about in the 70s? Kemp was producing LSD of a quality at least matching Sandoz...............

Good point F&B. And if I remember rightly, the spectrograph assay of Kemp & Bott's acid showed a purer profile than the Forensics laboratory's standard!

Praise indeed of their ability. Probably was responsible for a few extra years onto their sentence

E

 

[tobala]

I don't like the argument of negative energies affecting the drug. I'm one of the evilest self-serving fucks you'll ever meet but I can still manage to have enjoyable trips on all psychedelics...

Would you like to volunteer for some psychedelic research?

If I can show that the rate of freakouts for persons such as yourself is no greater than that of the control group (nice people), it'll go a long way in debunking the claims of the "acid-karma" zealots.

 

[fastandbulbous]

But that karma shit or anything based on your actions themselves, is hogwash.

Treat people like shite and eventually people will treat you that way. Treat them with good intentions and in general they will return those actions (see Richard Dawkins chapter in 'The Selfish Gene' on the reasons for altruism) - that's enough proof to me that karma works on some level.

That said, the subject of karma has fuck all to do with wibbley-wobbly, new age bollocks regarding 'putting energies' into LSD...