[LSD Subthread] The Clean vs. Dirty Acid Debate (Part 1 - Archived)
- Thread starter Psychedelic Gleam
- Start date
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Tell them their P45s are in the post!
Delsyd
Bluelight Crew
good acid= lsd
bad acid= not lsd
heres a funny story, i hooked up an associate of mine with a couple hits of L.
he ended up having a bad/strong trip. Instead of blaming himself (as that is where your trip originates) he chose to blame me and claim that what i gave him was "bad" acid.
eh, some ppl will just beleieve what they want.
bad acid= not lsd
heres a funny story, i hooked up an associate of mine with a couple hits of L.
he ended up having a bad/strong trip. Instead of blaming himself (as that is where your trip originates) he chose to blame me and claim that what i gave him was "bad" acid.
eh, some ppl will just beleieve what they want.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Er, I'd say 'good acid' - they enjoyed themselves, 'bad acid' - they didn't. It's that subjective IMO
swilow
Bluelight Crew
ranunky said:
You know, thats probably the truth of it. Low dose LSD CAN be unpleasant and edgy/nervy for some. I suspect that is the 'bad acid'.
squerll
Bluelighter
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- Messages
- 705
I was reading a book a old school hippy wrote about LSD and he had a theory on good LSD and poor LSD, so I thought I would post it in the never ending Good LSD vs Bad LSD thread.
I don’t know Sandoz and Owley LSD is way before my time I am just thought it was interesting.
Page 145 of “the man who turned on the world” Michael Hollingshead in the PDF
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/man_who_turned_on_the_world.pdf
or page 142 in the paper book.
"There was now (196B) little good acid around, and what there was—the so-called 'street acid'—
came mainly from California. There was something wrong with the synthesis; it was not
pure. And you were never sure what it was exactly that you were taking, so I only dropped
it on those rare occasions when someone gave me either 'Sandoz acid' or 'crystal acid'. I
think the problem for the underground chemists manufacturing clandestine acid was
shortage of ergot, without which the synthesis of d-LSD-25 is impossible. Until 1965,
supplies of ergot could be bought with little or no difficulty from three or four European
chemical companies; but pressure from Washington put a stop to this, doubtlessly hopeful
that this would lead to an end of clandestine LSD. In one sense the Federal authorities were
right. The underground ceased turning out d-LSD-25; instead, they discovered a wholly
synthetic substance, akin to d-LSD-25 in so far as it produced marked change in
consciousness. But the new synthetic acid lacked, in my opinion, that invisible nonpharmacological
factor—the magical, spiritual component that was really what acid was all
about. Sure, the new stuff 'worked' in the sense that any mind-altering chemical 'works' to
produce subjective effects within the body, but it didn't seem to produce in those who used
it any particularly noticeable elevation of either head or heart; at least, that was the
conclusion I had reached in London. But it was—and probably still is—an unpopular view
amongst the 'cognoscenti', who claim that some of the street acid is capable of producing
positive subjective effects of a 'long-lasting nature',though they readily admit that a lot of
the stuff sold as 'pure acid' is actually methylamphetamine (a concentrated form of
amphetamine, first developed by the U.S. Army) or a stripped-down ergotamine compound
by modern molecular chemistry.
My evaluation had nothing to do with the notion that a wholly synthetic drug produced a
wholly synthetic experience—the intellectual response—but was based on direct, first hand
experience (about thirty trips with street acid in all). And in each session I felt there was
something it lacked—it was too 'electric', too 'speedy' and too 'mind-shattering'. The earlier
clarity of 'insight' which I had obtained via the Sandoz acid was replaced by confusion,
brokenness, words and worlds thrown into absolute dismemberment or even, absolute
chaos, though, I must add, often coupled with a feeling that I can only describe as 'sublime
inflation', a superabundance of emotive energy; but it could not signify; more a passionate
flame and less the life-giving sun, as it were. I have read that d-LSD-25 is a semi-synthetic
substance, of which ergot is the organic, i.e. 'living' part. And to say that the 'spiritual'
component is contained within the ergot molecules must sound like a superstition to some,
but what I intend here is to suggest that 'pure' acid has 'metapolitical' implications—there is
a hidden truth or statement in each acid session which is unaccountably missing in most of
my experiences using the clandestine stuff, Owsley and 'white-lightning' notwithstanding.
There is, it seems to me, a qualitative decline in the subjective acid experience which is
something that does not admit of scientific analysis; it is an intuitive thing, I'd say.
"
I don’t know Sandoz and Owley LSD is way before my time I am just thought it was interesting.
Page 145 of “the man who turned on the world” Michael Hollingshead in the PDF
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/man_who_turned_on_the_world.pdf
or page 142 in the paper book.
"There was now (196B) little good acid around, and what there was—the so-called 'street acid'—
came mainly from California. There was something wrong with the synthesis; it was not
pure. And you were never sure what it was exactly that you were taking, so I only dropped
it on those rare occasions when someone gave me either 'Sandoz acid' or 'crystal acid'. I
think the problem for the underground chemists manufacturing clandestine acid was
shortage of ergot, without which the synthesis of d-LSD-25 is impossible. Until 1965,
supplies of ergot could be bought with little or no difficulty from three or four European
chemical companies; but pressure from Washington put a stop to this, doubtlessly hopeful
that this would lead to an end of clandestine LSD. In one sense the Federal authorities were
right. The underground ceased turning out d-LSD-25; instead, they discovered a wholly
synthetic substance, akin to d-LSD-25 in so far as it produced marked change in
consciousness. But the new synthetic acid lacked, in my opinion, that invisible nonpharmacological
factor—the magical, spiritual component that was really what acid was all
about. Sure, the new stuff 'worked' in the sense that any mind-altering chemical 'works' to
produce subjective effects within the body, but it didn't seem to produce in those who used
it any particularly noticeable elevation of either head or heart; at least, that was the
conclusion I had reached in London. But it was—and probably still is—an unpopular view
amongst the 'cognoscenti', who claim that some of the street acid is capable of producing
positive subjective effects of a 'long-lasting nature',though they readily admit that a lot of
the stuff sold as 'pure acid' is actually methylamphetamine (a concentrated form of
amphetamine, first developed by the U.S. Army) or a stripped-down ergotamine compound
by modern molecular chemistry.
My evaluation had nothing to do with the notion that a wholly synthetic drug produced a
wholly synthetic experience—the intellectual response—but was based on direct, first hand
experience (about thirty trips with street acid in all). And in each session I felt there was
something it lacked—it was too 'electric', too 'speedy' and too 'mind-shattering'. The earlier
clarity of 'insight' which I had obtained via the Sandoz acid was replaced by confusion,
brokenness, words and worlds thrown into absolute dismemberment or even, absolute
chaos, though, I must add, often coupled with a feeling that I can only describe as 'sublime
inflation', a superabundance of emotive energy; but it could not signify; more a passionate
flame and less the life-giving sun, as it were. I have read that d-LSD-25 is a semi-synthetic
substance, of which ergot is the organic, i.e. 'living' part. And to say that the 'spiritual'
component is contained within the ergot molecules must sound like a superstition to some,
but what I intend here is to suggest that 'pure' acid has 'metapolitical' implications—there is
a hidden truth or statement in each acid session which is unaccountably missing in most of
my experiences using the clandestine stuff, Owsley and 'white-lightning' notwithstanding.
There is, it seems to me, a qualitative decline in the subjective acid experience which is
something that does not admit of scientific analysis; it is an intuitive thing, I'd say.
"
MattPsy
Bluelighter
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- Jan 15, 2006
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Yawn. I bet if a skilled chemist did a total synthesis of LSD (thus avoiding the "organic" ergot) and a standard synthesis from ergotamine, and fed the product in a double-blind test to these guys who make these claims, they couldn't tell the difference. A molecule is a molecule.
It's a baby!
Bluelighter
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Yup. Ergot isn't hard to grow. You *can* order a high-yielding strain of Claviceps paspali, like 1-2g of Lysergic Acid and its amides (which can be hydrolyzed to Lysergic Acid) per/ liter. Trust me if you look and research enough you can get the stuff. Growing it? No problem. Build an aerated fermentor. Do some reading on sterile techniques, get a pressure cooker, pump sterile air (you can find sterile air filters), and there are designs for these things: it's not rocket science 
After about 9 days, voila the process isn't hard. You need POCl3 (you can make it yourself or order it from asians), basic solvents and such that you can order online from hobbyists if you know where, and Diethylamine which you can make by hydrolyzing bug-spray.
After about 9 days, voila the process isn't hard. You need POCl3 (you can make it yourself or order it from asians), basic solvents and such that you can order online from hobbyists if you know where, and Diethylamine which you can make by hydrolyzing bug-spray.
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Chaos23
Bluelighter
I think where the whole concept of 'good acid' and 'bad acid' stems from the fact that you get some hits that are more potent, with less negative body load feelings.
If anyone has taken much blotter acid you know it is not all made equally. I have had doses that 1 hit sent me into a 17 hour all out insane trip. It was very powerful, had a HEAVY body load, and completely rocked my world. (off 1 hit. best stuff I ever had)
The inverse of this is true as well. I have had LSD that wasn't as strong, but for some reason had a stronger body load than a lot of other LSD. It seems very subjective, as LSD is mental....
But from my own experiences, which number well into the hundreds, I would still feel comfortable telling people, "this is good acid". I would also feel comfortable saying it is bad, but I usually choose the term, "SUCKS".
Many different batches I was getting for resale in the mid 90s were all from the same chemist, so they were all basically the same.
When I would get some on trade from someone else, it would have an entirely different feel.
All I am saying is that I have personally experienced a DIFFERENCE in one batch of LSD to another. Not just in strength, but in feel as well. This could just be subjective influence on my opinion that it was different, but everyone else agreed.
For instance, when I was getting the fluff, I would have VERY similar trips almost every time I took it. Thats why I traded it for other types. Taking a different batch always seemed to change the trip for me.
Maybe I am just a burned out ex acid head, but IME, there are differences. At least there appears to be. The differences seem almost undeniable.
If anyone has taken much blotter acid you know it is not all made equally. I have had doses that 1 hit sent me into a 17 hour all out insane trip. It was very powerful, had a HEAVY body load, and completely rocked my world. (off 1 hit. best stuff I ever had)
The inverse of this is true as well. I have had LSD that wasn't as strong, but for some reason had a stronger body load than a lot of other LSD. It seems very subjective, as LSD is mental....
But from my own experiences, which number well into the hundreds, I would still feel comfortable telling people, "this is good acid". I would also feel comfortable saying it is bad, but I usually choose the term, "SUCKS".
Many different batches I was getting for resale in the mid 90s were all from the same chemist, so they were all basically the same.
When I would get some on trade from someone else, it would have an entirely different feel.
All I am saying is that I have personally experienced a DIFFERENCE in one batch of LSD to another. Not just in strength, but in feel as well. This could just be subjective influence on my opinion that it was different, but everyone else agreed.
For instance, when I was getting the fluff, I would have VERY similar trips almost every time I took it. Thats why I traded it for other types. Taking a different batch always seemed to change the trip for me.
Maybe I am just a burned out ex acid head, but IME, there are differences. At least there appears to be. The differences seem almost undeniable.
phatass
Bluelighter
It largely depends on how its transported and kept... good acid can lose potency (sunlight, air, warmth blah bla blah)... and tadah ya got bad acid :/
B9
Bluelight Crew
It's a baby! said:Yup. Ergot isn't hard to grow. You *can* order a high-yielding strain of Claviceps paspali, like 1-2g of Lysergic Acid and its amides (which can be hydrolyzed to Lysergic Acid) per/ gram. Trust me if you look and research enough you can get the stuff. Growing it? No problem. Build an aerated fermentor. Do some reading on sterile techniques, get a pressure cooker, pump sterile air (you can find sterile air filters), and there are designs for these things: it's not rocket science
After about 9 days, voila the process isn't hard. You need POCl3 (you can make it yourself or order it from asians), basic solvents and such that you can order online from hobbyists if you know where, and Diethylamine which you can make by hydrolyzing bug-spray.
Handle with care
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
MattPsy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,616
^ Good point. To any DIY'ers out there, legal troubles aside (!) , ergot and the compounds derived from it are not exactly friendly. Remember they produce the symptoms of St. Anthony's Fire - intense vasoconstriction leading to death. Not cool yo.
So yeah, some pretty good precautions must be taken in the handling of ergot and it's derived compounds... not to mention the LSD produced at the end of it all!
LSD, with todays synthetic methods, is *easier* to produce than MDMA, if you have the precursors... it is however more *dangerous* because of the potencies of the reagents and products. MDMA synthesis - no big deal if you spill a bit of the reaction mixture on you, etc (although obviously this is terrible practice). Not so with LSD synthesis.
So yeah, some pretty good precautions must be taken in the handling of ergot and it's derived compounds... not to mention the LSD produced at the end of it all!
LSD, with todays synthetic methods, is *easier* to produce than MDMA, if you have the precursors... it is however more *dangerous* because of the potencies of the reagents and products. MDMA synthesis - no big deal if you spill a bit of the reaction mixture on you, etc (although obviously this is terrible practice). Not so with LSD synthesis.
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B9
Bluelight Crew
^ Imagine accidentally inhaling a few milligrams of LSD 8( .....then again some things are better not imagined 
i read somewhere in this book 'storming heaven' 'lsd and the american dream"
sculy and owsley concocted a little experimant. taking fifty grams of recently produced LSD, they divided it into 5 piles and dyed each a different colour, then they waited for the streets to notice,
the word was the red stuff was righteously mellow, but the green was awfully speedy and it was rummored that one of the colours had been cut with strychnine.
sculy and owsley concocted a little experimant. taking fifty grams of recently produced LSD, they divided it into 5 piles and dyed each a different colour, then they waited for the streets to notice,
the word was the red stuff was righteously mellow, but the green was awfully speedy and it was rummored that one of the colours had been cut with strychnine.
feelgoodhit
Bluelighter
^ yeah, i remember my friend bill ate some of that. he thought he was a glass of orange juice for four hours, until he decided he was an orange & tried to peel himself with a knife & failed, at which point all the LSD stored in his spine made his brain bleed. & that's when he tried to jump off a building thinking he could fly.
it was bad acid...
it was bad acid...