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Legal Highs - And the bad side effects??

They are not my products, I am simply a regular user of party pills.

As for customs, I am pretty sure Aussies can import unapproved therapeutic products for personal consumption, the problem is likely with vendors reselling them, ie: Making therapeutic claims. I am not certain on this, anyone wanting to import anything should check with customs and the TGA to be 100% sure what they are importing is legal.
 
Uh. RC-spiked?

The only legitimate type of 'legal high' is one that is in 99% pure powder form and labelled correctly. That way the user knows what they have and can weigh accurate doses.

Pre-made pills are bullshit in any form unless they list the real ingredients and exact doses. The industry as a whole refuses to do this.

If you want to get high on caffeine and DMAA you should buy caffeine and DMAA powders, and mix them yourself.
 
Johnnywas said:
As for customs, I am pretty sure Aussies can import unapproved therapeutic products for personal consumption, the problem is likely with vendors reselling them, ie: Making therapeutic claims. I am not certain on this, anyone wanting to import anything should check with customs and the TGA to be 100% sure what they are importing is legal.
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Cool, I wasn't aware of that.


Johnnywas said:
They are not my products, I am simply a regular user of party pills.
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No worries, welcome to Bluelight anyway man. It will be good to have someone from NZ contributing here.
 
Coolio said:
Uh. RC-spiked?

The only legitimate type of 'legal high' is one that is in 99% pure powder form and labelled correctly. That way the user knows what they have and can weigh accurate doses.

Pre-made pills are bullshit in any form unless they list the real ingredients and exact doses. The industry as a whole refuses to do this.

If you want to get high on caffeine and DMAA you should buy caffeine and DMAA powders, and mix them yourself.
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Sorry dude, pure powders are dangerous bullshit. BZP would never have been banned if it were not for cowboy vendors selling it by the gram bag. DMAA came close to being banned due to the same thing. Luckily the MOH jumped in and banned gram bag sales quickly this time around. Why? Because people just inject the whole bag. Capsules are problematic also, users empty them out and inject the whole lot at once. Pressed pills with listed ingredients and compulsory harm reduction ingredients such as vitamins and amino's are the safest option. Pure powder might be ok for you as an experienced user who owns a decent set of scales. But for the average munter that wants to get as F#$ked up as he can, the reality is he needs to be sold something that is sold in a pre-pressed safe dosage.
 
In a perfect world all drugs would be sold with ingredients to minimize any potential harm that may be caused by the main active ingredient. Most drugs burn out something, for example MDMA depletes serotonin, alcohol depletes B Vitamins . . .

So part of the regulation surrounding the future legal regulated supply of these substances should be to either mix in with or sell alongside a preload or afterload pack of nutrients to replenish the depleted substances.

For example, RTD,s should include B Vitamins. MDMA should be sold with 5-HTP preload and recovery pills.

Of course they should also include information on ingredients and any possible contraindications.
 
Preloading with 5-HTP dulls the roll. No one is going to preload once they know that.

Give people the choice to take vitamins, aminos or whatever seperately, don't include them in the pills. Some idiot is always going to take 10 of them and end up with serotonin syndrome.
 
what kind of moron would inject DMAA? w00t a gram of dmaa, just what i've wanted since the dawn of time. Get a grip. It's a shit drug, with a shit effect profile, it barely even makes it into the catagory of a drug of abuse potentcial.

and yeah, compulsary harm reduction ingredients; can you explain to me, beyond 'theory' evidence that these 'amino acids' are going to benifit users? I doubt it. Yes you're right, L-Tyrosine is a precursor to DA and 5-HTP a precursor to well, 5HT. But beyond our theories - there is very little evidence to support that it will infact reduce harm from drug use/abuse. It just eases our collective minds to think we are doing something combative against neurotoxicity. I used to engage in the practice of pre/post loading with 5HT, taking magnesium and L-Tyrosine when required, but i don't really take MDxx anymore so it's not as important.

And as for RTDs, perhaps they should contain some vitamins or whatever - some infact do, especially those mixed with energy drinks. From memory, I believe Pulse does, and a few of its knock offs
 
Verybuffed said:
Preloading with 5-HTP dulls the roll. No one is going to preload once they know that.

Give people the choice to take vitamins, aminos or whatever separately, don't include them in the pills. Some idiot is always going to take 10 of them and end up with serotonin syndrome.
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It dulls the roll if taken on the day, but I am under the impression that it is good to take in the days leading up to the roll (but not on the actual day).

These are the sorts of things that need to be established. Every substance is individual and will have its own unique safety requirements.

So for MDMA, perhaps leave the 5-HTP to a separate pill for after the roll. But perhaps there are vitamins or minerals that could be included. With alcohol RTDs I am sure B vitamins could be included in the drink. With LSA seeds perhaps some L-Agrinine could help with vasoconstriction issues? Cocaine could be sold along with B Vitamin and L-Tyrosine recovery packs.

Ginger is a great addition to substances that are prone to causing nausea.

I firmly believe that most drug related harm is caused by prohibition. A lot of this harm can surely be regulated out in a regulated supply situation.
 
MrIbis said:
what kind of moron would inject DMAA? w00t a gram of dmaa, just what i've wanted since the dawn of time. Get a grip. It's a shit drug, with a shit effect profile, it barely even makes it into the catagory of a drug of abuse potentcial.
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people in NZ were, I remember being in one of their pill shops in Christchurch and I was asking about powders that were similar to speed, the chick behind the counter said that there were a fair few people injecting the pure bzp powder
 
Johnnywas said:
Sorry dude, pure powders are dangerous bullshit. BZP would never have been banned if it were not for cowboy vendors selling it by the gram bag. DMAA came close to being banned due to the same thing. Luckily the MOH jumped in and banned gram bag sales quickly this time around. Why? Because people just inject the whole bag. Capsules are problematic also, users empty them out and inject the whole lot at once. Pressed pills with listed ingredients and compulsory harm reduction ingredients such as vitamins and amino's are the safest option. Pure powder might be ok for you as an experienced user who owns a decent set of scales. But for the average munter that wants to get as F#$ked up as he can, the reality is he needs to be sold something that is sold in a pre-pressed safe dosage.
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When the government prohibits a substance, it's an abuse against all of us. Whether or not BZP is illegal has nothing to do with what form it should be sold in.

When you say "problematic", what are you talking about? Why SHOULDN'T I be able to just inject my BZP? That's my fucking right and privilege. You have no business telling other people what they can do with drugs.

The reality is that you have no right to tell the average munter what he should do with his own body.

When you make "pre-pressed safe dosage" forms of drugs, you perpetuate a culture of ignorance.
 
Coolio said:
When the government prohibits a substance, it's an abuse against all of us. Whether or not BZP is illegal has nothing to do with what form it should be sold in.

When you say "problematic", what are you talking about? Why SHOULDN'T I be able to just inject my BZP? That's my fucking right and privilege. You have no business telling other people what they can do with drugs.

The reality is that you have no right to tell the average munter what he should do with his own body.
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I agree, its your life to do what you want with. You can inject strychnine for all I care. I am not suggesting pure powders be prohibited. Just regulated and not marketed to the general ignorant public, in the way rm2x mentioned above.

The fact is the pure powders are too dangerous for the general public. They result in hospital admissions and sensationlistic newspaper headlines which in turn leads to prohibition of said substance.
 
Johnnywas said:
I agree, its your life to do what you want with. You can inject strychnine for all I care. I am not suggesting pure powders be prohibited. Just regulated and not marketed to the general ignorant public, in the way rm2x mentioned above.

The fact is the pure powders are too dangerous for the general public. They result in hospital admissions and sensationlistic newspaper headlines which in turn leads to prohibition of said substance.
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That's funny. The general public doesn't seem to have a problem with cocaine, methamphetamine, MDMA, heroin, etc. in pure powder form.

Are these "legal highs" that much more dangerous than the illegal "hard drugs"????
 
Coolio said:
That's funny. The general public doesn't seem to have a problem with cocaine, methamphetamine, MDMA, heroin, etc. in pure powder form.

Are these "legal highs" that much more dangerous than the illegal "hard drugs"????
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The general public does have a problem with these substances. Due to their illicit status the general public do not know what they are getting for a start. Double drop of PMAA anyone?

All these substances could be regulated to be made safer. Lets take meth for example. Most people could juggle snorting speed or dropping fat girl pills without loosing the plot. Then when smokable meth arrived a number of these people lost it. IMO meth should be legalized and sold in a drinkable liquid form, cut with vitamins etc. Those that were hell bent on injecting could still perform an extraction, but it would be out of the ability of the average member of the public.

Besides, the government will never go for just mainstreaming pure chemicals. We need to meet them half way in order to move forward.
 
^ Yeah but, you're still missing the point. People have rights and freedoms, or should anyway. You suggest exactly as what was stated above, perpetuating a culture of ignorance. The more people are spoonfed, the dumber they become. Do you really think it right to fuck with people like that? Surely the amount of drug related deaths directly influences the public in its own way, making sure the fools won't bother to try the drugs, and showing others how and why things aren't safe, so that they may be able to make an informed decision about how they do their drugs. If they choose to be another example, so be it - and better for the rest of us.

Save one man, kill a thousand more?

If the deaths of a few can benifit the masses, so be it. I won't be the one to pull the trigger on these people, they'll do it for themselves. I suffer no guilt from my comments because i know i didn't play a part in killing anyone. The government may use my idealisms against us - but in the end, it's still both morally and in essence correct - perhaps prohibition does serve a purpose, because otherwise fools like you will be screwing the world. making it your plaything, whilst people live in self ordained ignorance. Yes it is a better life, to live un-burdened by knowledge. Knowledge is sorrow, but it's still correct - and by far the only real method of salvation we have. If you and your christian masters believe otherwise, fine. But don't fucking push your ignorant ideals on us.
 
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So can you or anyone else suggest a better alternative to the regulated supply model? Keeping in mind that my suggestions are just that and for sure could be improved upon until perfected.
Prohibition has been an all out disaster, there's no disputing that.
I am all for personal freedom, but I can,t honestly see totally unregulated supply working either, not that the government would go for it anyway.
I think strict regulation (probably far stricter than any of us would want) is the future of drug policy. The medium between what the government want and what the people want. Does anyone have a better suggestion?
 
Yeah sure, strict regulation by PHARMACISTS. not by fucking business tycoons selling garbage. cutting it down, and fucking us over.

If the pharmacies were selling 'brand x meth' i'd probably buy it hand over fist, ensuring it was not cut, and it was sold to me as a pure substance - for recreational use. Party Pills are garbage, and a shit idea, selling unresearched substances under the guise they are herbal in origins, and that makes them okay?

Cathinone is herbal in origin, doesn't make it good for you. mixing it with adulterants wouldn't make it any better for you.

Perhaps being on a government registrar/database when you buy the pure substance from a chemist would be the way to go about this - as in, one dose, per person, per week. or like, one amount (that would be less than the LD50 for said drug). And that you can only be registered with one pharmacy at any time. And all other pharmacies would have access to that information - and would not sell to you if you were registered at another pharmacy, or require you to transfer your registration, pay a fee, fuck around - and still this be restricted to only being able to be done once a week (so as people who were visiting other areas may still get their drugs - if they're willing to jump through the hoops). These substances would probably also be taxed to kingdom come.

I think all of this would be a far greater step against prohibition than your hair brained scheme.

I however can not see this occuring any time in the near future - our governments are closely in league with the USA - and wouldn't want to be seen as giving people the right to do drugs. eventually your stupid herbal pills will be made illegal, as more 'glowing' reports arise. scrutinized and criticized for getting kids high, even if it's meant for 18+. this is the world we live in. Once the abuse potential of something is substanciated - its well on its way to becomming illegal, then the tycoons will find the next crappy legal to put in their pills - and do it again, until the government puts a blanket ban on the term 'party pills' because of public outrage blah blah blah. Then you're forced to sell 'insense' and 'plant feeders' to circumvent the blanket ban laws - on again, newer and unrelated substances. Further imposing a risk on the greater public. It seems like the 90's Ecstacy phenomenon really pulled its weight on ensuring prohibitionists are fed well. Just because of people's greed
 
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