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  • AADD Moderators: Tronica

Legal Highs - And the bad side effects??

^Some good ideas and points there, thanks for that, but please take it easy on the insults. An opinion is like an arsehole, we all have one. I am simply putting ideas out their for discussion, not trying to say my opinion is right, or others are wrong.

I think the pharmacies will eventually take over the recreational drug market. Keep in mind that this is the disease industry, they make their money from giving us cancer etc.

Another problem is they do not want a line of drug users filling up their Pharmacies.

In saying that I believe a mix of the two models would be better still. Kind of like the Dutch coffeeshop / smartshop model for soft drugs such as weed and mushrooms. And the Pharmacy model for hard drugs such as Methadone.

What do you think about this?
 
Pharmacies already have lines of drug users filling up their stores.

Mushrooms are not a soft drug, despite what your hippy ideals may think - they contain a powerful hallucinogenic substance, that is infact a type of poison. And can be attributed to many dangerous outcomes, i don't believe shops should sell them at all.

Sure, dutch weed cafe's work. I have no problem with that. The real drug market is not in soft drugs. Pharmacies, if they take on this plan - which i doubt they would - would have all sorts of, well, ex-criminals in them. The other way this model would work (and no, we don't need to adulterate substances with shit to make them 'safer'). Was that pharmacist run 'drug stores' would arise, and given the demographic of people visiting them, would most likely be some kind of booth/hole in the wall, to prevent theft.

I know theft is a major issue in the methadone/buprenorphine treatment model that some pharmacies take on. Lots of junkies like to pinch shit whilst they're in the pharmacy. And this creates that issue. A Drug Bank type idea would work in place of this, possibly operated by multiple pharmacists, all drugs then labeled as if they were a prescription - with dosing information on the label.

Also, it would be good to point out, that under this model - possessing drugs not labeled and named would be an extreme offense, in benifit of the government.

And i think, i would be quite happy with those ideas if they were put in motion. It's the only comprimise that would work with the community. And even then, i still don't believe heroin should be sold like this (im an ex heroin user) - because of its side effects, possibly meth should not be sold either.

One idea, in prevention of over-use/abuse, would be to put all substances in a pill form - but this is iffy, because it reduces those who do not abuse the drugs, to the same level as those who do. People shouldn't have to be punished for doing the right thing. Perhaps the model would include that people suspected of abuse the subject to some kind of examination - if abuse was cited, they would only be allowed the tablet variations.

There is a whole fucking book i could write that would outline laws that would create guidelines for safe drug dispense and use.

I'll sum it all up like this;

*Drugs are dispensed by a registered and qualified pharmacist
*All participants in the program are to be registered, and hold a membership card. This would incite a reasonable fee, to ensure younger kids/teens can not afford to participate.
*Participants may be registered at only one pharmacy at any time, to register with another would void your registration at the other, and incur another fee for each transfer - and transfers would be only available once a week/fortnight.
*The drugs to be sold would be limited to those deemed as Party Drugs by the authorities - and i believe should be limited to (and i'd open this to discussion, but to prevent true abuse);
Tablet formula Amphetamines
MDMA
Ketamine
and possibly, GHB and some form of weak benzodiazapine or z-drug to assist in comedowns.

Add ideas to this model, but i don't believe drugs in formulas where they can be smoked/injected would work for the ideal that this was to benifit.

Oh sorry for hurling insults, it's just what i do. Read my posts in other threads... it's the only way i can focus on writing something intelligent ;)
 
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Sorry dude, pure powders are dangerous bullshit. BZP would never have been banned if it were not for cowboy vendors selling it by the gram bag.

Pure powders mean you know exactly what you are taking and how much of it. Much safer than a pill that may or may not contain the ingredients listed.

And as for people injecting the whole lot, I always thought Piperazenes were made illegal because of them being a cheap alternative for people to press as pills.
 
^Some great points, for the most part I agree.

I will agree to disagree about shrooms being a hard drug. I believe acid, shrooms and mescaline to be soft drugs. The are non habit forming and the overdose potential is non-existent (in commonly used forms). The main danger is mis-identification of the shrooms, hence why I believe they should be sold.

I would also suggest the NZ made DMAA party pills are soft drugs. They are after all not so different to herbal weight loss pills. Surely they could be sold in headshops (which should be R18 restricted premises) alongside other harm reduction equipment such as vaporizers etc.
 
Jakeperson, BZP was prohibited due to Christchurch vendors selling by the gram bag for users to inject. The hospital admissions in Christchurch were many times more than the rest of the country put together.

STANZ campaigned the government to put regulations in place to stop this but the government wanted to wait for someone to die to justify a straight out prohibition of said substance. No one died luckily so they just went ahead and banned it anyway. Now it has reappeared on the black market sold as MDMA with a recently busted street pill dealer boasting that his sales went up 500% right after the ban.

The government learnt their lesson, hence DMAA is now regulated.
 
overdose potentical is non-existant, but what about psychotic episodes by those who can't handle psychedelic substances? thats the true danger.

The same has been claimed of Cannabis. That is not criteria for inclusion as a hard drug. Alcohol however does meet the criteria and should really be a class b controlled substance if all drugs were treated equally.
 
i really do not like cannabis at all, but if i were to have a go about it, 9 million hippies would jump down my throat. Cannabis destroyed my family. It is a hard drug, thus why i don't include it in my outline. I will however say this - pot has not even 1/10th of the power of the psychedelic substances you listed. If that point alone isn't reason why acid and shrooms would be hard drugs, and pot not?

Also, it is extremely uncommon for a single dose/session of pot smoking to cause a bad trip - but on acid and shrooms it happens all the time. At random aswell. Surely this counts for deeming them unsafe?
 
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Jakeperson, BZP was prohibited due to Christchurch vendors selling by the gram bag for users to inject. The hospital admissions in Christchurch were many times more than the rest of the country put together.

Never heard of that happening in Aus though.

I'm sure they weren't selling it for people to inject, just for people to use.

Sucked in to any one dumb enough to IV pipes.
 
A lot of people seem to really enjoy IV BZP, I know a guy who was shooting 3 grams a day and loved the stuff. I tried explaining to him it is corrosive, he said "so what, so's Methadone".

The Christchurch pill shops were actually advising people to bang it up as rm2x stated above.

They also had very poor quality controls. One brand of pill that claimed to contain 500mg BZP was tested and found to vary from 100 to 1000mg per pill.

This type of carry on was limited to Christchurch, where 'cowboy' operators refused to stick to the voluntary regulations set out by STANZ. Hence why I believe the government needs to work alongside organizations such as STANZ to enforce sensible regulations as opposed to prohibition, which just means new RCs to take the place of whatever gets banned ie: back to square one.
 
im glad this thread has brought on quite an interesting debate..!

ive learned alot!

but im still gonna try these "party pills" and be sure to give a full report! im taking them with a mate so ill be sure to document and report everything i can... i wont drink and be sure to take the recommend dosage of each pill...

but until then let this debate roll!!


also i really like the idea of having a government pass to obtain so called party drugs... im pretty sure i saw on the news somthing like that accept for marijuana..?
 
^I feel that the ideas i expressed are the only way of beating prohibition, because the fact remains that if youth/young adults want to get high, they will obtain the drugs - if the government regulated this by allowing them to get those drugs, free from prosecution, with known pure substances - in various different and known dosages - would allow people some peace of mind.

Also incase of allergy, this could be easily found by the pharmacists with a skin test - preventing deaths.

Nothing would stop people from then passing the drugs on, but people at least need a fair shot - because something like this could work. Also its guaranteed to put a massive dent in crime and be alot cheaper in the long run
 
For hard drug users perhaps regular blood tests to show the user is actually using the drugs them self could help prevent the drugs being passed on?
 
okay...

it has been a while since i started this thread and now i am able to report on ONE of the things this company supplies...

I haven't tried any of the stimulants as yet, although i have tried their alternative to marijuana...

now my findings are interesting...

the stuff is called "kronic - aroma" it is designed to smoke in replacement of weed.

the stuff definitely gets you stoned... very stoned... keeping in mind im a daily smoker of the real deal, i was quiet surprised at the quality high this stuff gave me...

now the VERY VERY notable cons to this product are evident when smoking... its very smooth to inhale although on the exhale it give you an itch in the back of your throat and shortens your breath quiet substantially...

the only way i can describe the feeling is like having an asthma attack crossed with a coughing fit... it is a really uncomfortable feeling as you can only take VERY VERY short breaths (like 1/4 of a second) for about 3-5 minutes without kick starting a coughing fit that lasts about 5 minutes...


so all in all the effect is great but the side effects are rather horrible...

i really DON'T recommended ever trying this product because the cons far out weigh the high...

so all in all don't waste your money or time or lungs...

cheers guys!
 
^ aaahhhh some interactions between anti depressants / anti psychotics & recreational drugs can be fatal.... definitely try to find out the active ingredients and do some research!
 
^ +1 on that. Part of it may be that there are interactions, also another part may be that people who have mental illnesses shouldn't be experimenting with drugs whilst they are getting better.

I imagine that an antipsychotic would probably blunt a lot of the effects, I can't be bothered to look up interactions right now.
 
8o

better not do it then huh? yeah dont think i want that. :D

nope

as dodgy as vendors are, if they put a warning on the label of their product it's probably for a good reason....
 
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