Opioids Kratom

[negrogesic]

I thought OPMS was better than UEI. What is very interesting is that taking 1 isnt that much weaker than taking 2. Three capsules almost had me nodding which never happens to me with kratom.

I wonder if they found a way of encouraging the hydroxylation of mitragynine into 7-hydroxymitragynine.

But $10 a pill is pretty insane...

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

^ Yeah, OPMS found a way to isolate the strongest part of kratom. I don't know all the scientific terms. The OPMS site explains their method.

I tried a liquid shot of a brand I forgot yesterday...The clerk at the store said everyone loved it and I drink it and felt absolutely nothing but some nausea and sweating, totally sucked.Today I bought and ounce of Kratom pharmacy Red maenga Da and took 8 grams of it after 1200mg of Gabapentin and felt grest.OPMS gold is still my favorite but this kratom pharmacy is vvery good.I dont think Gabapentin blocks kratom like hydrocodone,I think I just had a shitty brand at first.It was called Uncle Tom's it sucked...But Gabapentin definitely fucks up hydrocodone

Oh I meant to say there are many shit brands of liquid kratom shots out there.
I only trust OPMS liquid shots. I like the shots better than their capsules.

 

[Crowsonator2008]

^ Yeah, OPMS found a way to isolate the strongest part of kratom. I don't know all the scientific terms. The OPMS site explains their method.


Oh I meant to say there are many shit brands of liquid kratom shots out there.
I only trust OPMS liquid shots. I like the shots better than their capsules.

Supernatural kratom was the name of the shit.I spent 17$ on it and felt nothing.Today I bought an ounce of kratom and been taking 8 grams doses and feel good off of it.OPMS gold extract capsules are what I usually take.

 

[Xorkoth]

Xorkoth - you indicated that you drank your tea immediately following preparation. Any experience with making a larger batch and saving in the fridge for use over a few days?

Never tried. I used to make the tea with 2 extractions twice a day... took like 45 minutes each time. Dedication... heh.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Coast - Haha well I had never heard of the David Hasselhoff video until that very next day

I wasn't aware that OPMS was favored to UEI. I've never had UEI.

Negrogesic - you're OPMS experience is encouraging!

Xorkoth - I hear ya on the dedication, I know all about it. I frequently toss n wash in public bathroom stalls with a water bottle. Can't really leave the house without my next dose. It's quite the dependency I've developed. I've got quite a bit of experience being dependent on opioids and withdrawing from them (morphine, methadone, black tar heroin, hydromorphone, codeine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, opium, demerol, diphenoxylate and more I'm sure). I was 100% clean from all substances for about 8 years after years of heavy addiction before starting kratom for chronic pain.

I haven't gotten around to making tea yet. Been enjoying this hydro but intend to do so rather soon. I've got some home grown Lauren's Grape poppy straw I may throw in the pot as well.

Enjoying the thread! Good info being shared.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Regarding UEI and OPMS, I've been enjoying some new product from a well established vendor. It's a 20% mitragynine extract and it's the real deal. I have been adding 300mg sublingual doses to my powder or ingesting up to 1 gram with powder and it is quality. Also finding it to mix rather nicely with hydrocodone as opposed to the sometimes unwanted effects of combining kratom powder and a full agonist.
Mouth numbing. ~same price per gram as OPMS is per capsule.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Recent studies suggest that mitragynine is actually metabolized into 7-HO in-vivo (looking for links now). So individual metabolism could definitely play a role in levels of 7-HO produced and subsequent effects or lack thereof. I have always found kratom to feel more like hydrocodone than classic opiates personally. YMMV of course.

Link to recent study in mitragynine metabolism -

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acscentsci.9b00141

I wanted to touch back on this. Wouldn't the findings of this study suggest that using cimetidine or WGFJ to inhibit CPY3A4 during kratom metabolism would actually lead to less 7-HO production.

IME I always experienced diminished effects with kratom when pre-loading with cimetidine or WGFJ and this was years ago, and years prior to the study results. I gave up on it a long time ago because it consistently resulted in less euphoria, less pain killing effects, and a more dulled drawn out experience.

 

[xivixive]

weird, i found OPMS capsules to be super weak... double the amount of my usual otc brand, which is 'maeng-daddy' powder, still felt like a weaker dose. they were double the $ as well. though where i am any otc kratom is at least 4x the $ when compared to the prices i see for powder online. i just cant afford to place an order online and buy otc stuff while waiting for it to arrive...

i was up to 70 grams per 24 hours, have tapered down to 70 grams every 48. it barely does anything beyond keep WD away. if i take 25 grams at once i get an ok buzz for about an hour...

hoping to one day acquire enough pregabalin to make it a solid 4 days without then hopefully will be done with kratom. i was foolish to let myself get carried away with this crap. all the reports of WD being mild must've been from people dosing a few grams once daily. 4 hours after dose i feel WD starting, then they rapid increase in severity. 9 hours after dose WD are hitting hard - like 24hrs without an oxy dose back when i was doing ~100mgs a day. frightened to see what it would be like 24hrs without a dose of kratom, and i can't seem to taper below 3 doses of 8grams per 24 hours without my mood becoming miserable and fatigue making me worthless.

 

[KratomDemon]

weird, i found OPMS capsules to be super weak... double the amount of my usual otc brand, which is 'maeng-daddy' powder, still felt like a weaker dose. they were double the $ as well. though where i am any otc kratom is at least 4x the $ when compared to the prices i see for powder online. i just cant afford to place an order online and buy otc stuff while waiting for it to arrive...

i was up to 70 grams per 24 hours, have tapered down to 70 grams every 48. it barely does anything beyond keep WD away. if i take 25 grams at once i get an ok buzz for about an hour...

hoping to one day acquire enough pregabalin to make it a solid 4 days without then hopefully will be done with kratom. i was foolish to let myself get carried away with this crap. all the reports of WD being mild must've been from people dosing a few grams once daily. 4 hours after dose i feel WD starting, then they rapid increase in severity. 9 hours after dose WD are hitting hard - like 24hrs without an oxy dose back when i was doing ~100mgs a day. frightened to see what it would be like 24hrs without a dose of kratom, and i can't seem to taper below 3 doses of 8grams per 24 hours without my mood becoming miserable and fatigue making me worthless.

ive been trying to kick Kratom for 6 years off and on and have been using daily for almost a decade. Withdrawals are god awful. Just a word of caution on any Kratom virgins
Thinking about getting into this. Being legal makes it almost impossible to go without because there is no hurdle to use other than cost.

 

[Jack123456]

I wanted to touch back on this. Wouldn't the findings of this study suggest that using cimetidine or WGFJ to inhibit CPY3A4 during kratom metabolism would actually lead to less 7-HO production.

Yes. It might then be a trade-off, I suppose. With CYP blockade there'd be a prolonged mitrangyne concentration in the body, but at the same time less metabolisation to 7-HO metabolite, which is more potent. Due to that mix of both being a sort of pro-drug but also being inactivated into other metabolites it seems that that Kratom is not really suited to potentiation due to that overlap of different metabolism mechanisms.
Someone posted a nice figure of the metabolism pathway a while back but can't find it.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

ive been trying to kick Kratom for 6 years off and on and have been using daily for almost a decade. Withdrawals are god awful. Just a word of caution on any Kratom virgins
Thinking about getting into this. Being legal makes it almost impossible to go without because there is no hurdle to use other than cost.

Basically you can get off with Gabapentin and you shouldn't feel withdrawals.

I don't know where the other poster read that withdrawals are mild, they are not. I saw my ex go through withdrawals when he ran out of kratom for a weekend and it was brutal. He was also very, very mean to me because he was in pain and that's one of the reasons why things ended.

Anyway, get some Gabapentin and come off it. Or taper down with the kratom. Never go cold turkey and things should be fine. I never had withdrawal problems out of all the years I took kratom on and off.

A big thing I've noticed is psychological addiction. Your mind tells you that you need it, but you really don't. The psychological addiction is major with this stuff that's for sure. You can easily start taking more than you should or more often than you should.

 

[Sertürner]

I had pure crystal citric acid from the local food co-op, and put a bit of that into the first extraction. It seemed to help.

How are you doing your extracts? I make my own but am always interested in hearing other people methods.

I had been using 5% acetic acid to lower the Ph to 3 but I also just bought some food grade citric acid and wanted to know how well it worked.

 

[Xorkoth]

I didn't make extracts, I just drank the tea. It's the traditional method of ingesting kratom, to make simmered tea from the leaf and not consume the actual leaf material. This was all many years ago.

I don't know where the other poster read that withdrawals are mild, they are not. I saw my ex go through withdrawals when he ran out of kratom for a weekend and it was brutal. He was also very, very mean to me because he was in pain and that's one of the reasons why things ended.

The recovery industry likes to paint kratom as a harmless plant with no downsides, so there is a lot of misinformation out there. There is a monetary reason for people/regulators to think kratom is harmless. Also there is shade thrown at kratom users by other opiate users, this sort of idea that people experiencing withdrawals from kratom are just being weak or something. It's nonsense. If you do enough kratom for long enough, the withdrawals are intense and very, very real.

I'm not saying kratom shouldn't be legal, I'm glad it is, because given the choice between heroin/pill addiction and kratom, kratom is the clear winner, it's legal, relatively cheap comparatively, and much more functional. But it's not a harmless nonaddictive plant.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

I didn't make extracts, I just drank the tea. It's the traditional method of ingesting kratom, to make simmered tea from the leaf and not consume the actual leaf material. This was all many years ago.



The recovery industry likes to paint kratom as a harmless plant with no downsides, so there is a lot of misinformation out there. There is a monetary reason for people/regulators to think kratom is harmless. Also there is shade thrown at kratom users by other opiate users, this sort of idea that people experiencing withdrawals from kratom are just being weak or something. It's nonsense. If you do enough kratom for long enough, the withdrawals are intense and very, very real.

I'm not saying kratom shouldn't be legal, I'm glad it is, because given the choice between heroin/pill addiction and kratom, kratom is the clear winner, it's legal, relatively cheap comparatively, and much more functional. But it's not a harmless nonaddictive plant.

Well said! Kratom is great and very beneficial, but people should definitely do their homework on it first. If you search the intranets on kratom withdrawals, I bet tons of stories will pop up about it being a horrible experience. Mild my ass.

There are people struggling here:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Also, do not get caught up in taking extracts all the time. There are people who have a very expensive OPMS addiction. They take the OPMS capsules or drink the OPMS liquid shots multiple times every single day and suffer big time when they don't have it. It's no joke. I wish they would give me all that extra income they have to spend on OPMS every day for months, even years. I'd be rich. Same with UEI kratom, people get caught up in taking that too much, also expensive and brutal withdrawals.

 

[Xorkoth]

I find it equally bad to harder opiate WDs, pretty much everything is milder except the RLS, for me, was way worse, and I am prone to RLS anyway ever since I was a kid and I HATE IT SO MUCH... all opiates cause bad RLS in withdrawal but with kratom my entire body is in RLS, my arms as bad as my legs. I'd lay in bed thrashing all night and sometimes get so frustrated I'd punch my legs as hard as I could as long as I could stand it so they'd go numb so I could get like 2 minutes of relief until it started again. Torture. I mean I was taking like 50 grams a day for years but yeah, it's bad.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

I find it equally bad to harder opiate WDs, pretty much everything is milder except the RLS, for me, was way worse, and I am prone to RLS anyway ever since I was a kid and I HATE IT SO MUCH... all opiates cause bad RLS in withdrawal but with kratom my entire body is in RLS, my arms as bad as my legs. I'd lay in bed thrashing all night and sometimes get so frustrated I'd punch my legs as hard as I could as long as I could stand it so they'd go numb so I could get like 2 minutes of relief until it started again. Torture. I mean I was taking like 50 grams a day for years but yeah, it's bad.

I'm sorry you suffered like that. That explains why my ex was lying in bed and it was like he lost total control of his body. Must've been the RLS feeling. His arms were jerking around and he literally started punching the table next to the bed. It was scary. He was irritable, very mean and demeaning. I can empathize to a certain extent, but when you start talking to me any kind of way, I don't put up with that. He learned the hard way you can't go cold turkey.

Just saw this on reddit about someone taking OPMS for a year, jeez:

 

[aspiringchemist]

I find it equally bad to harder opiate WDs, pretty much everything is milder except the RLS, for me, was way worse, and I am prone to RLS anyway ever since I was a kid and I HATE IT SO MUCH... all opiates cause bad RLS in withdrawal but with kratom my entire body is in RLS, my arms as bad as my legs. I'd lay in bed thrashing all night and sometimes get so frustrated I'd punch my legs as hard as I could as long as I could stand it so they'd go numb so I could get like 2 minutes of relief until it started again. Torture. I mean I was taking like 50 grams a day for years but yeah, it's bad.

This is the place I am at. 30 - 50 grams a day for at least 4 years now, plus another year of intermittent use. When the withdrawl hits it seems to grow in intensity quickly.
I try to always have about 2 kilos on hand

 

[AutoTripper]

weird, i found OPMS capsules to be super weak... double the amount of my usual otc brand, which is 'maeng-daddy' powder, still felt like a weaker dose. they were double the $ as well. though where i am any otc kratom is at least 4x the $ when compared to the prices i see for powder online. i just cant afford to place an order online and buy otc stuff while waiting for it to arrive...

i was up to 70 grams per 24 hours, have tapered down to 70 grams every 48. it barely does anything beyond keep WD away. if i take 25 grams at once i get an ok buzz for about an hour...

hoping to one day acquire enough pregabalin to make it a solid 4 days without then hopefully will be done with kratom. i was foolish to let myself get carried away with this crap. all the reports of WD being mild must've been from people dosing a few grams once daily. 4 hours after dose i feel WD starting, then they rapid increase in severity. 9 hours after dose WD are hitting hard - like 24hrs without an oxy dose back when i was doing ~100mgs a day. frightened to see what it would be like 24hrs without a dose of kratom, and i can't seem to taper below 3 doses of 8grams per 24 hours without my mood becoming miserable and fatigue making me worthless.

Do you know if the withdrawals begin to lessen after a few days of cold turkey? Or is it pretty full on suffering for quite a few days and nights before you start to feel better and the WD eases up.

 

[negrogesic]

Do you know if the withdrawals begin to lessen after a few days of cold turkey? Or is it pretty full on suffering for quite a few days and nights before you start to feel better and the WD eases up.

In my experience peak of withdrawal seems to be around day 4 with kratom after which it gets better...

 

[AutoTripper]

In my experience peak of withdrawal seems to be around day 4 with kratom after which it gets better...

Thanks. Strangely, Im not surprised by that as I realise that in my subconscious mind I intuitively gauged or envisaged that sort of of time span on the withdrawals intensity and beginning to wane.

I did end up dosing last night. It hasnt affected me as badly and I have been a lot more comfortable with the respiratory effects after I made a superb recovery from an all round rough condition starting out yesterday ( many factors involved there not least of all the kratom side effects from Saturday.)

I was dosing twice a day vs only one time last night spontaneously when I was in a much better shape as well.

So there is still no way that I could ever take this substance regularly for any sort of prolonged period but I'm thinking that I may be able to to use it occasionally or or maybe still fairly frequently.

I'm not sure if I mentioned but where I find it particularly helpful it's with my chronic fatigue condition and muscular weakness, aches, pains and stiffness.

Normally I am very debilitated by weakness and muscular and nerve pain and tension but when I take the kratom I have so much more energy and strength and my body and and experience real comfort and pleasure to move around and walk my legs especially which are normally so stiff and weak and sore feel really light and at ease and pleasant to walk on around the house.

So there have been some pronounced benefits for my specific conditions on the physical level as well as the the mental and emotional therapy side of it just enabling me to relax and feel happiness which I have not done for such a long time.

With discipline, I see that I may be able to use the Kratom once of twice a week, just to split things up, access that deep relaxation, euphoria, quality sleep etc.