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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Kratom

I'm curious about your respiratory complications as well. Can you describe them? I take ~50g a day, for quite a while now (maybe a year at that dose) and havent noticed anything my myself.

@CoastTwoCoast I agree it is horribly addicting psychologically. I always compare it to a cigarette/nicotine and caffeine addiction in terms of how hard it is to quit. The physical WD can be bad but the psychological toll is on par or even worse than than somebody who smokes a pack a day or more on top of a 6-8 cups of coffee addiction.
 
^ Mmmm I'm thinking of a Greek salad with grilled onions, grilled chicken, beets and feta cheese on it. Those grilled onions are so delicious. hehe



I'm worried for you because of the respiratory aggravation you mentioned from kratom. What exactly is it doing to your breathing?

I'm sorry you feel such depression and hopelessness. I suffer from that too from time to time. Kratom helps with my anxiety disorder and depression symptoms. Kratom is psychologically addicting. That's one of the reasons I order it all the time. Kratom isn't doing any damage as far as I can tell, but I wish I didn't feel like I need it.
It's nothing serious it's just temporary symptoms like an allergy reaction I experience this with virtually all medicinal herbs and supplements and remedies out there my immune system just reacts unnecessarily to harmless things and often very medicinal things are the worst.

I can't take any type of supplements like vitamins or minerals I can't even use toothpaste I've tried everything and anything but in 99% of cases the exacerbation of mucus production and general irritation of the respiratory tract is too much to tolerate when I'm already living with and managing the Most Extreme allergy and infection Simpsons 24/7 365 due to a heavily compromised immune system.

Actually I tolerate the kratom much better than many other supplements and herbs I have tried it is no exception in that case and the only reason I am persevering with it is because I have enjoyed the experience so thoroughly and my mental state and depression and anxiety has been truly unbearable for some time now in life and the crash and was enabling me to actually completely physically relax and feel real happiness even if drug-induced I experienced it and it has been therapeutic and healing for me.

I am able to enjoy the kratom at the time of the experience and the the increased exacerbation of my respiratory symptoms which require how many hours of management every single day bites me me at certain points of the day and night when I'm managing my symptoms but I am still able to enjoy the substance at the time I'm which isn't always the case with these adverse reactions.

So it really is nothing serious, I just have an extremely unusual situation due to my lyme disease messing my mean and nervous system up properly.

And this is also why I'm not worried about addiction because when my kratom use becomes a problem for or whatever other reasons I already have a huge incentive to break from it and it would be harder for me to keep going once I'm not receiving more enough benefits to make it all worthwhile.

And I hear you and I think that is exactly it with kratom it's Not So Terrible in most cases that you can't live with it and there are obvious benefits more so for some than others so it can be easy to accept the Habit into your life.

I also love cocoa powder for example but this I can't tolerate either due to respiratory aggravation and increased mucus production and lung congestion and pain.

The same for ordinary coffee and black tea and a million other things which I would naturally enjoy and use to supplement life if and help with anxiety and stress and enjoyment and pleasure etc.

In virtually every single case I have to suffer intolerable reactions so this is is very directly connected to my mental experience of life and depression and anxiety because it's such a minefield of deprivation and risk with so much to fear and dread and avoid and so little to enjoy if that makes sense.

Hence my attraction to the kratom effects, which are as escapist as anything else in a way. Sooner or later I will have to revert to using kratom just occasionally but this will still be a brilliant enrichment to life once I have have a step back and gotten used to not using it daily it will be a real pleasure to be able to access that long lasting enjoyable experience on weekends or that particular time without being dependent on it so I am looking forward to that.
 
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I'm curious about your respiratory complications as well. Can you describe them? I take ~50g a day, for quite a while now (maybe a year at that dose) and havent noticed anything my myself.

@CoastTwoCoast ... the psychological toll is on par or even worse than than somebody who smokes a pack a day or more on top of a 6-8 cups of coffee addiction.

That's me :rolleyes:
Though cutting down coffee or quitting it isn't really a big deal for me. I'm currently on a bit downtime and drink 2 cups as opposed to6/7-x and it doesn't really bother me. Cigs are a problem but nothing unbearable. I mean, I haven't stopped, so it's somewhat hypocritical of me to say, but I've stopped before and it wasn't too bad.
 
Guys just to add, I can honestly say that I never have taken one single puff from a cigarette as in a ready rolled cigarettes in all of my 39 years despite having smoked tobacco with cannabis for that explicit purpose only for quite a few years and taking every drug under the sun I came across but not the addictive va one's more MDMA and psychedelics with a little bit of everything else thrown around.

So in a lot of ways I'm quite good at not being powerlessly lured into certain types of addictions, although I cannot deny that I have an addictive personality in many other ways. I have been very addicted to cannabis for a long time but then it is the only drug I have been able to tolerate in such an otherwise dull and empty life with no real fun or excitement and so much suffering still.

If my situation was different and there were more possibilities to live any sort of normal and full of life especially on the dietary and supplement side I have no question I would be much less dependent on cannabis and if it did not work for me I would look at alternatives which would be easier to find and and I'm not saying drugs but many other pathways I could follow which I currently blocked due to the abnormal complications of my own situation and condition.
 
^ So you have Lyme Disease? I'm sorry. I don't know much about it, but I've heard it's miserable. You know what's best for you, just try not to overdo it with these substances. We want you safe. :)
 
^ So you have Lyme Disease? I'm sorry. I don't know much about it, but I've heard it's miserable. You know what's best for you, just try not to overdo it with these substances. We want you safe. :)
Thank you yes its a tough cookie is long term Lyme. It often destorys the life of the victim and leaves a lifelong struggle.

I am actually very fortunate to still be alive. My respiratory and allergy symptoms are so extreme and severe that if I did not have such a fine tuned awareness of everything which affects me and and the methods I have ingeniously developed to manage the symptoms and clear this excessive mucus from my lungs every single day probably 7 or 8 hours every day is spent managing these respiratory symptoms...

Then it could very easily be fatal due to choking and suffocation. I am very disciplined in some ways, weak willed as hell in many others.

I have done amazingly well to find ways to cope with the symptoms and simply keep going as a breathing human being up until now after so many years.

Kratom is very safe for me. I have to say actually, for all it's bad rap, it's actually INCREDIBLY safe when you think about it. More than alcohol, benzos. Even caffeine is dangerous. I recentlt tried caffeine powder. I took 100mg at a time when I was in a very vulnerable physical state but also my anxiety was especially bad that day and I had an extremely severe reaction to the caffeine wear my nervous system reacted affecting my circulation and and I lost all Sensation and mobility in my hands and feet my hands cramped up I couldn't even drink water and I had a really bad panic attack.

But I also had some extremely uncomfortable physical sensations something was really going on and I was fearing for my life if at the time because I had already had the fear of death put into me by stupid doctor who misinterpreted my blood results and phoned me up while my own doctor was on holiday that week and tried to convince me I must go in for a check-up or I might drop dead within a week (which was all a load of bullshit anyway the stupid cow she really caused me some severe anxiety at the time, like she was actually really trying to convince me that I was like we could die if I didn't go in for a check-up immediately because she saw my blood test results showing low white blood cell count and thought maybe I was coming down with cancer or something and plummeting fast)


Anyway the reaction to the caffeine was really severe and it was one of the worst experiences of my life portly we live within in eyesight of the local hospital so we went to the accident and emergency but I never needed treatment in the end and recovered.

But they're not sure that there was a controversial case of somebody dying from caffeine powder in Australia and calls for it to be regulated.

So that really is no danger that starts from me taking kratom I just have to put up with temporary side effects more than other people.

I have a ton of acid to get around to eventually (1plsd, 1cP, Ald, Lsd) I stocked up while these clearnet options are around and before Brexit just in case.

I tried 4 ho mipt, wont be taking that again they respiratory reaction is too problematic and just totally drains my energy it's just not worth it where is with the kratom it is kind of worth it overall.

I also have two Dutch MDMA pills I've not taken MDMA since 2005 and I was planning to but I'm really not sure that this would be safe for me. I mean, 100mg caffeine was too much for my nervous system in a stimulatory sense.

I did manage to take the caffeine powder at lower doses up to 50 mg without such a reaction on subsequent occasions.
That experience made me think twice about taking my MDMA pills which I have no idea what all of the exact ingredients are.

It might just be too risky, I took a few amount of MDMA before my lyme disease hit well over 3000 pills in 9 years.
 
Yeah, it's best not to even risk taking MDMA at all.
Your system is too sensitive. It's not worth it.
 
Yeah, it's best not to even risk taking MDMA at all.
Your system is too sensitive. It's not worth it.
My feelings. My interest in taking MDMA again stemmed from the strong feeling that it could be enormously therapeutic and healing for me to help release so much negative stuck emotions from me excessive prolonged trauma of my experience with lyme disease and everything that has happened in life since.

I do believe that any sort of MDMA experience would work wonders for me in coming to terms with life and releasing so much stuff, reconnecting with my true identity.

MDMA is a substance which always worked really well for me and is.automatically therapeutic.

I would not need any guided assistance, I know exactly how to enter into the MDMA experience to really tap into its healing potential.

But just too risky for me physically. The other thing as well I absolutely obliterated my brains with excessive MDMA use I mean literally real brain damage many time.

As heavy abuse as you ever hear of almost. Lots of that is going to be permanent when you take things that far and I've always been ok with this.

In many ways I think my friend has recovered and I have a lot going for me mentally and personality wise it's fine not having a life and being really depressed and having no energy to actually be a person.

But I would not want to take MDMA one time and then find that my brain function has been altered for affected negatively and anyway because that would be a shame.

So there is that to consider as well.
 
So I ended up over consuming slightly last night and this morning my mum went on holiday today. I had particularly digestive upset and couldn't eat yesterday ended up staying up all night (although I did get up at 3 pm, only 6 hours sleep still), and eating at 6 am today.

I started at 7pm with 5 grams Green Malay and herb edible. I added 3 grams White Borneo at 11 pm. It gets a bit sketchy, but I redosed again, once or twice before I finally attempted food at 6 am. Damn I know my total but my short term memory is a bit wounded and I was useless at logging dose times and weights.

I then redosed during food, I've done this a few times and I find it does actually work remarkably well for me to instantly bring up my buzz and it also so I many occasions has helped me there a better job at eating and digesting my food by relaxing me Mid meal.

I swear the kratom does have some digestive properties as well being a bitter herb which is stimulating hydrochloric acid production and the digestive process and general.

Anyway the situation was a bit of a mess and I was in a right state mentally because of my difficulty eating food recently due to anxiety and such severe sleep deprivation I'm too tired to eat and digest but still unable to catch up on sleep.

You could call it a Catch-22 in ways. So I ended up with numerous spontaneously redoses yesterday mixing the two strains randomly.

Eating was very stressful and difficult. I didnt manage much and had bad digestve upset. So I added a final 3 gram dose of Green Malay after I finished eating.

Total was about 18.5 grams, 7 pm to 8 am..
The previous 3 days I have been at 12 and 13 so it was a fair jump.

I was very kind and high hi no question about that but I did actually get sick in the end with some bile to vomit I just took a little too much. It wasn't very pleasant but it wasn't too bad at the same time I went out for a walk and I was really off my head on kratom and cannabis and lack of sleep.

It was quite an interesting melancholy experience and quite unlike any particular driving experience I have had before regarding my headspace and mindset and emotional state alongside not a particularly enjoyable general physical condition.

I was sick a few times but only bile came out and I had to wait all day to recover my appetite but the nausea and sickness has completely gone.

It wasn't the sickness I already this morning had suddenly completely changed the way I feel about kratom for the better. Until then the idea that I would have to stop taking it and accept that it isn't ultimately right for me because of the respiratory aggravation, this was making me really depressed and determines to try and persevere is it for as long as I can.

Buy this morning I had changed how I was feeling and decided I've kind of had enough of using it everyday now and I like the idea of not taking kratom everyday I'm ok with that now in principle.

Then the sickness came and this just cemented it I was determined to have a break for the first time I'm feeling optimistic and not mentally addicted. Until I put my money where my mouth is I don't really comment but I honestly did arrive at a different outlook on the matter.
It really is only a matter of time before I will not be able to continue daily kratom use anyway because of the symptoms are experience.

So in my case it's not a question of will I get addicted and will I stop it's a question of when will I stop and how addicted will I be and what sort of complications will I experience.

So I was feeling really positive suddenly about exercising discipline and making occasional use out of kratom which would be such an enjoyable weekend treat.

Things are really tough right now though anxiety has been literally killing me in recent months and I'm so severely underweight with an anxiety related eating and digestive disorder. With monstrous sleep deprivation. My anxiety is directly connected to my level of tiredness and exhaustion. So when I finally recovered my digestion and tried to eat my food tonight I was completely turning and anxiety because I'm just too excessively tired to actually eat and digest food and keep my mind awake while doing so.


So after I had already begun eating but wasn't doing very well with it due to anxiety, I decided to dose with green Malay, only because of the excessive tiredness and increasing anxiety about being too tired to eat.

I still felt some lingering nausea at the thought of more kratom but I had already begun my meal and my digestive system had woken up nicely, so I took 4 grams of green Malay which I did just top up with another to grams one hour later.

I certainly won't be taking such large amounts again and especially not such reckless spontaneous re dosing. I just let myself naturally push things that times to learn the ropes and get a feel for the perimeters.

It did pay off though as I basically satisfied my urge wth a binge, so as to make me feel bored of it now suddenly, no regrets at all, ultimately I feel good will come out of my kratom usage so far.

I should start thinkong ahead now though to make things easier, I realize that now.
I will have some Vein and Stem to try next week, and a 160 gram 8 sample pack.
 
Yep. I was popping Gabapentin yesterday morning. My kratom arrived in the mail in the afternoon. I couldn't even feel the kratom and the poppy liquid I took. Gabapentin is the culprit for sure.
Phenibut has that same exact effect of blocking my high if I take it first before kratom or hydrocodone.

Just curious, what type of poppy liquid are you talking? Seed? Pod?
 
Just curious, what type of poppy liquid are you talking? Seed? Pod?

This is the one I was using. It's just saying California poppy.

 
California poppy does not have opioids in it. But it is relaxing.
 
So what is the consensus on gabapentin use in terms of when to dose opioids with it?

I see reports on BL of needing to wait 2 hours post gabapentin ingestion to ingest hydrocodone for positive results. Though others contradict that in this thread, stating that waiting 2 hours will result in no opioid absorption.

Ingesting kratom or hydro followed by gabapentin at T+30 min shouldn't lead to reduced opioid effects theoretically as metabolism would be well underway.
 
It seems to vary greatly between individuals. As gabapentinoids do in general, I've noticed. Some people find the opiate high is increased, some find it's unchanged, and some say it's weakened or blocks them. Gabapentin is absorbed via an amino acid transporter in the intestines, which hardly any drugs are, it's why taking more than I think 600mg per hour is a waste, it can only absorb so quickly so a megadoses all at once it passes through you unabsorbed, mostly. Anyway, opiates are absorbed in more traditional ways, before the intestine. So I don't think gabapentin could affect their absorption, I think it has to do with the interaction of what they're doing to the way neurons are behaving, when they're both in affect at the same time.

Also, gabapentin lasts way longfer than 2 hours, 2 hours is when it's starting to reach full effect. So if it blocks them, I would think it would block them for the whole duration of action, not just the first 2 hours.
 
That all makes sense. I don't have the links atm but I was just referring to other BL threads in which I see people saying to wait at least 2 hours post gabapentin dosage to dose opioids but if we're talking about pharmacological interaction as opposed to metabolic or absorption issues, it would make sense that for the entire duration of gabapentin there may be reduced opioidergic effects, which yes, is much longer than 2 hours.

I'm rusty on the pharmacology of gabapentinoids but I believe they act as a VGCC blocker, which would do what...? Thinking out loud - Reduce the intensity of the action potential propagation along the neuron's axon or reduce neuronal calcium influx (as a result of Na influx) of the pre- synaptic neuronal terminal ending, perhaps leading to reduced signaling or firing of neurotransmitters across the cleft? At the neuromuscular junction this makes sense though it gets above my level of knowledge to try and apply this to the pharmacological action of mu receptor agonists.

Or I'm just talking out my ass lol. This thread is great.

On a side note, I take vyvanse daily (prescribed). It too is absorbed via amino acid transporter. I wonder if there is any interaction between gabapentin and vyvanse being dosed simultaneously? Though I suppose it depends which amino acid is responsible for each.
 
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Gabapentin blocks kratom only if a large amount of Gabapentin is taken BEFOREHAND and given an hour or so to kick in.

It also depends on the amount of Gabapentin you're taking. If you're not taking a really high dose, it probably won't block anything.

The best way is probably to take the kratom or hydrocodone at the same time as Gabapentin. That way your kratom or hydrocone will kick in before the Gabapentin. That way, there's no problem.
 
Also, gabapentin lasts way longfer than 2 hours, 2 hours is when it's starting to reach full effect. So if it blocks them, I would think it would block them for the whole duration of action, not just the first 2 hours.
Yes, if I let the gabapentin reach full effect at an hour or 2, when I take kratom or hydrocodone, it is blocked all day long. Way more than 2 hours. It's so annoying. I mean all day blocked, seriously. Haha

That's only if the Gabapentin dose was too high. If it's like 300 or 600 mg of Gabapentin, then it won't block anything.
 
Yes, if I let the gabapentin reach full effect at an hour or 2, when I take kratom or hydrocodone, it is blocked all day long. Way more than 2 hours. It's so annoying. I mean all day blocked, seriously. Haha

That's only if the Gabapentin dose was too high. If it's like 300 or 600 mg of Gabapentin, then it won't block anything.

I read a study showing co-administration of gabapentin and hydrocodone reduced hydrocodone absorption by up to 20% with doses ranging from 100mg-600mg gabapentin.
I can't seem to find the link right now for some reason...
 
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