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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Kratom

Crowsonator2008

Bluelighter
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
259
Ok well I have a question about Kratom. I bought me a bag of 65 capsules of red vein Indo from a local vape shop here in Texas.Im also on prozac and Gabapentin.Ive took kratom many times and it seems like this time it's a much weaker than usual, im not sure if it's the batch or the Prozac is weakening the kratom, like it does with hydrocodone.Does prozac effect the liver enzymes that metabolize mitragynine into OH-mitraginyne or whatever its called, and are their any kratom potentators???I want to get an effect cause I dont have access to better stuff...
 
How much Gabapentin are you taking? Too much Gabapentin could be cock blocking the kratom.

Can't answer the Prozac question, hopefully someone else will. I'm on Effexor XR and kratom goes fine with it.

I'm also on Gabapentin. I've noticed taking gabapentin before hydrocodone ruined my high a few times. It makes me feel nothing from the hydrocodone. Yeah, I was pissed. It could be causing the problem with your kratom.

Or you could have a weak brand of kratom. You should search the internet for reviews on the brand you bought and see what other people say. Then you can have a better idea of what's going on.
 
Well today I took another go at it with OPMS Gold extract I took 2 and I feel fantastic. But this time I only took 600mg of gabapentin.I believe the high dose ofGabapentin is what blocked the effects last time...
 
Well today I took another go at it with OPMS Gold extract I took 2 and I feel fantastic. But this time I only took 600mg of gabapentin.I believe the high dose ofGabapentin is what blocked the effects last time...

Yep. I was popping Gabapentin yesterday morning. My kratom arrived in the mail in the afternoon. I couldn't even feel the kratom and the poppy liquid I took. Gabapentin is the culprit for sure.
Phenibut has that same exact effect of blocking my high if I take it first before kratom or hydrocodone.
 
Yep. I was popping Gabapentin yesterday morning. My kratom arrived in the mail in the afternoon. I couldn't even feel the kratom and the poppy liquid I took. Gabapentin is the culprit for sure.
Phenibut has that same exact effect of blocking my high if I take it first before kratom or hydrocodone.
Now one time I took 300mg of tramadol with about 3 grams of Gabapentin and felt great...
 
Now one time I took 300mg of tramadol with about 3 grams of Gabapentin and felt great...

Did you take the Gabapentin after the tramadol or before? It seems like taking a huge amount of Gabapentin before a substance is what causes the problem. Taking Gabapentin after seems to be fine. It's tricky.
 
Yea I took it after.I bought some more gold extract today and dont feel nearly as strong as I should..I still love my Gabapentin but I enjoy kratom more...
 
Yea I took it after.I bought some more gold extract today and dont feel nearly as strong as I should..I still love my Gabapentin but I enjoy kratom more...

Same here about enjoying kratom. Taking kratom extracts too often will build tolerance really fast. I've been doing the regular powder.
 
When I first decided to try kratom, the red Bali had me on my ass. Also not good to mix with energy drinks.

I’ve settled on green Maeng dae over the year. A mix of sedation + anxiolytic effects and some energy. Tried a white strain once and wasn’t a fan of the stimulation (and yes, I finished the 500g regardless lol).

Kratom is also known to have ZERO effect on some people. I imagine people who lean more towards opiates may not be as impressed, but at the same time kratom is the very substance that helped people kick there habits so I dunno tbh.
 
When I first decided to try kratom, the red Bali had me on my ass. Also not good to mix with energy drinks.

I’ve settled on green Maeng dae over the year. A mix of sedation + anxiolytic effects and some energy. Tried a white strain once and wasn’t a fan of the stimulation (and yes, I finished the 500g regardless lol).

Kratom is also known to have ZERO effect on some people. I imagine people who lean more towards opiates may not be as impressed, but at the same time kratom is the very substance that helped people kick there habits so I dunno tbh.

Luckily i can get a one day delivery and to my knowledge it’s not under siege like south of the border.
 
For whatever reason kratom seems to only last 3-4 hours max (unless a dizziness inducing dose is taken -- 8g+), which result in frequent redosing.

While its one of the least enjoyable, dirtiest feeling opioids around (almost like butorphanol), it can certainly has a compulsive element to it.
 
Some people find gabapentinoids to block the effects of opiates... and some don't. Sounds like for you, it does.

As far as kratom being dirty feeling, I actually agree, if you consume the leaf matter. But back in 2003, before kratom caught on and was virtually unheard of except where it's from, I used to buy crushed leaf and the only method of consumption I found in my research was the traditional method. So I did that. I would dose much higher and not consume the leaf at all, and the effects were amazing (also I was an opiate virgin so that had something to do with it). What I would do is take 10-16 grams (depending on tolerance), and simmer hem on low heat in water for 20 minutes. Strain it out, pour the dark liquid into a big jar or something, then do a second 20 minute extraction (too high a boil and it would burn). Combine them, and let cool until it turns into the color and consistency of creamed coffee. Throw away the leaves. I would drink it quickly and within minutes a stimulant comeup not unlike good cocaine would hit me, I would get super ecstatic and jump around and chatter to everyone about absolutely anything. Then an hour or so in, it would shift gears to a sedating opiate high. I rarely experienced the dizzy/dirty feeling using this method. Once I started using powdered leaf and consuming the leaf, I would dose quite a bit lower and I started noticing the weird dirty effects far more often.

My early kratom experiences were my favorite of any opiate experiences of my life, and I was addicted to various ones. After a time though I was never able to get those beautiful initial effects, even using the same method. Though I did try the traditional method again some years after beginning to toss and wash the powder and it still felt a lot cleaner and required a higher dose, but had better effects.
 
I've been a daily kratom user since around 2013/2014. Currently I take ~1.5 ounces per day toss n wash.

I recently started gabapentin prescribed at a pretty low dose for now so I have similar questions as OP. I however have not found it to effect kratom metabolism at 300mg-600mg doses an hour or two before ingesting kratom (or hydrocodone for that matter despite all the research showing reduced absorption of hydrocodone with co-administration of gabapentin.

I'm starting to get very tired of the dirty feeling. I have a lot of opioid experience, from codeine to IV heroin. I've settled on kratom because I'm tired of dealing with pain docs.

Xorkoth - I am very interested in what you've said above regarding the traditional method. Ive read many of your posts re kratom here on BL as well as Erowid; it's a pleasure to speak with you (or text lol).

Have you found the effects similar with powdered kratom as opposed to the leaf? I remember getting leaf back in 2014 and loved it. I would like a new method of ingestion and recently have begun using resin extract and isolated mitragynine along with powdered leaf.
 
The "crushed leaf" kratom makes better tea, compared to the leaf that's been pulverized into a powder-consistency IME. The tea actually has a quite drinkable and pleasant consistency compared to tea made with powder kratom, which can sometimes feel like drinking a puddle lol.

As far as the psychoactive effect, though, I don't find that there's much of a difference.
 
No way I could drink kratom tea. Just getting a taste of the powder by mistake makes me want to puke. I avoid tasting it. I also avoid smelling it because I hate the smell too. Anytime I'm using my kratom powder, I don't inhale.
 
I cannot stand the taste either. Many a time have I vomited into my mouth and swallowed it back down.

Off topic - for the nausea I have found ondansetron to be extremely effective. I take 12g - 15g doses in the evening and if I do not take ondansetron I vomit 20 minutes after ingestion; with ondansetron no vomiting.

Burnt - thanks for sharing your experience with crushed leaf. I haven't seen it available in some time. What I'd do for fresh leaves :p
 
Yeah I'd recommend getting some if you enjoy kratom tea. The vendor I knew of who sold it has been out for some time, though...seems like more of a rarity compared to the powder, which I administer with the "toss and wash method". I don't find the taste to be disgusting, necessarily (to me it just tastes like "the woods", if that makes sense lol), but inhaling that fine powder into your lungs is definitely very unpleasant IME. There's definitely a "technique" to it
 
Today out of curiosity i tried a kratom extract from a headshop with a not so subtle name ("O.P.M.S."...ie., to sound like the word opium).

The package asserts that they contain 60mg mitragynine and 2.8mg of 7-hydroxymitragynine per capsules), which based on their relative potency to morphine (1/3x and 17x, respectively), equates to about 78mg of morphine per capsule. I took three (havent had an opioid in a week so im a relatively clean slate). I'll admit it is quite strong, but doesn't feel like 234mg of morphine (but given these alkaloids are partial agonists no amount will ever feel like morphine). It feels more like ive taken a fair amount of hydrocodone however, perhaps 50 or even 60mg.

Interestingly it seems to have fewer side-effects (like nausea and doubled vision), though far more itching than typical kratom. Also feels a bit different (and better). I believe this brand has been tested for other compounds before, and apparently only contains kratom alkaloids.

Absolutely not worth it however at around $10 per capsule (considering you could take 15 grams for around $2 and get a similar, albeit more side effect ridden, effect).

Still this stuff feels way better than regular kratom. Perhaps its moreso not about what is in the extract but what is not in the extract (compared to the raw powder). That said, the ratio of mitragynine in this extract is somewhat higher than is generally seen in the plant (1:21 7-hydroxymitragynine to mitragynine in this extract, as opposed to 1:30 at most in the plant -- some plants will have negligible amounts, such as 1:100).

Perhaps they found a way to influence the hydroxylation?
 
I shouldn't say I find the taste disgusting lol but ingesting 16.5g via toss n wash can get pretty nauseating sometimes or cause increased gag reflex.

I've tried OPMS as well, from a headshop too, and ya it's good product. My way of testing extracts is sublingual administration. If local numbing occurs I'm more inclined to believe it's active.

There's some reliable vendors out there that provide quality extract similar to OPMS at a fraction of the ridiculous cost. And ya the name is ridiculous...

Recent studies suggest that mitragynine is actually metabolized into 7-HO in-vivo (looking for links now). So individual metabolism could definitely play a role in levels of 7-HO produced and subsequent effects or lack thereof. I have always found kratom to feel more like hydrocodone than classic opiates personally. YMMV of course.

Link to recent study in mitragynine metabolism -

 
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